The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

[Robert of Normandy]

In a little over a month, the next stage of speculating will commence. New users will flock onto the scene, but the ones that should be watched over are the ones from GameFAQs. The people as you know are not the brightest bunch of the group, but will swarm in large masses. To tame them you'll need to stay sharp, diligent, and cunning.

 

[bobadz]

In a little over a month, the next stage of speculating will commence. New users will flock onto the scene, but the ones that should be watched over are the ones from GameFAQs. The people as you know are not the brightest bunch of the group, but will swarm in large masses. To tame them you'll need to stay sharp, diligent, and cunning.

I say this because of their attachment to Chrom and their denial of anything else. As said by Chrono, these discussions are like a Fire Emblem game and there is a notable division between "nations". Prepare yourselves for the frontal assault from the east, since those people will likely strike at Roy. Though I am not keen to Roy or any Fire Emblem characters, I will join the side of Flare Boy to teach the fools what for. Those people need a good punch in the face to see their foolhardy ways.

Agreed, also could someone go over to the tvtropes super smash bros thread and tell them that Roy is popular in his home series. (you could add more popular then Chrom if your feel like it.)
And Roy was not added solely for promoting FE6.

 

[Deleted member]

Agreed, also could someone go over to the tvtropes super smash bros thread and tell them that Roy is popular in his home series. (you could add more popular then Chrom if your feel like it.)
And Roy was not added solely for promoting FE6.

>Roy more popular than Chrom.

In Japan maybe. Dunno source?

I know he's more wanted as a Smash rep, because Chrom is boring as a fighter and because people can't handle roster cuts, but I wouldn't say he's more popular than Chrom. At least not in the West.

Actually, I can't wait till Shorty releases that new poll which includes Lucina and Lyn, I wanna see who the two of the fare up to the likes to Roy and Chrom, especially Chrom.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Agreed, also could someone go over to the tvtropes super smash bros thread and tell them that Roy is popular in his home series. (you could add more popular then Chrom if your feel like it.)
And Roy was not added solely for promoting FE6.

That would be lying

 

[FalKoopa]

That would be lying

It took a while to understand the joke, but whatever.

 

[ChronoBound]

>Roy more popular than Chrom.

In Japan maybe. Dunno source?

I know he's more wanted as a Smash rep, because Chrom is boring as a fighter and because people can't handle roster cuts, but I wouldn't say he's more popular than Chrom. At least not in the West.

Actually, I can't wait till Shorty releases that new poll which includes Lucina and Lyn, I wanna see who the two of the fare up to the likes to Roy and Chrom, especially Chrom.

Roy is certainly more popular than Chrom in Japan, and certainly more popular among Smash Bros. fans in both Japan and the West. All of the Japan-lords are not that popular among Western FE fans (even the greatly overpowered Sigurd) because barely anyone (less than 10%) has even played the Japan-only FE games.

As for how Chrom would do compared to Lucina, considering that among Smash Bros. fans I have usually seen Chrom crush Lucina (because Lucina is seen as a genderswap version of Marth), its not really interesting. In the pinned poll on the Smash 4 board, where Lyn is a choice, Roy has double the votes that Lyn has.

Roy is very popular as a choice for Smash Bros. to the point where he is even competitive with characters like Isaac in terms of requests, and its really only the Big 5 (Mewtwo, Mega Man, Ridley, K. Rool, Little Mac) that you could definitely say there is a stronger demand for him in the West.

I have a lot more to say based on previous posts that were mentioned on the previous page, but I don't have the time to address them right now.

That would be lying

Roy is extremely popular among Japanese FE fans, there are even official polls that show this. I brought this up in the Anna topic, but there was a topic on Japanese FE board asking who their favorite red-haired FE character is, and guess which character was mentioned the most. Cain from Marth's games was the character that game up the second-most (in general a lot of the red-headed characters from Marth's games came up a lot). That's not even going into Roy's popularity among Japanese Smash Bros. fans. FE6 and FE7 are also very highly regarded (they have among the highest review averages in the entire series from two Japanese review sites I looked at). Roy is seen as the face of the GBA trilogy in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno, I think Lucina has the potential to surpass Chrom even among Smash fans. Most of Chrom's support is bandwagons due to recentness. No one really knows what he could be capable of really. Lucina is sort of a walking spoiler, so most people aren't even aware. But I think that in the right light, she could overtake him easily. I mean, Chrom is also clone material at best.

 

[ChronoBound]

I dunno, I think Lucina has the potential to surpass Chrom even among Smash fans. Most of Chrom's support is bandwagons due to recentness. No one really knows what he could be capable of really. Lucina is sort of a walking spoiler, so most people aren't even aware. But I think that in the right light, she could overtake him easily. I mean, Chrom is also clone material at best.

I don't think so. Lucina's problem is that she is seen as even more likely to be a clone than Chrom (due to her very strong aesthetic similarities to Marth). I do think she will probably end up having the most support of any female FE character (though I think the Anna fanbase is going to be the most pro-active one this time since they know that the character has long-term viability), however, Lucina suffers from the same problem as Toad in Japan does, very popular among fans of their own series, yet little interest for Smash Bros.

 

[AnOkayDM]

...(because Lucina is seen as a genderswap version of Marth)...

So Lucina is buff with a deep voice and a beard?

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Roy would be better off having something totally original. Like a focus on more ranged fire attacks, and an ability to close the distance with his foes. Something to let him make better use of his added power.

Roy is a good example of why clones are a bad idea. Falco is the example of why they are good.

I think Roy could still work well as a semi-clone. Also, Roy and Falco are not good and bad example of clones, but rather examples of what happens when balance is not done properly. I think the only "bad" clones for most people are pretty much just Pichu, Young Link, and Dr. Mario (though the last one has some fans).

In the actual Smash 4, I think Roy will probably end up being more unique than Falco and Ganondorf were in Brawl. He most likely will at least have two unique specials, his own unique Final Smash, and a wide assortment of unique A-moves. A semi-clone Roy would probably only share 1 or 2 specials with Marth (counter being one of them), and maybe a few similar A-moves with Marth/Ike. Otherwise, he most likely will be pretty close to a Lucas/Wolf type character (although Roy would likely have at least several unique specials of his own as well as his own Final Smash).

The trajectory for clones in Smash Bros. has been to gradually become more unique with each game. The only Melee-style clone we received in Brawl was Toon Link. Falco and Ganondorf at least had a few unique A-moves, while Lucas and Wolf pretty much only shared specials and Final Smash.

In a little over a month, the next stage of speculating will commence. New users will flock onto the scene, but the ones that should be watched over are the ones from GameFAQs. The people as you know are not the brightest bunch of the group, but will swarm in large masses. To tame them you'll need to stay sharp, diligent, and cunning.

I say this because of their attachment to Chrom and their denial of anything else. As said by Chrono, these discussions are like a Fire Emblem game and there is a notable division between "nations". Prepare yourselves for the frontal assault from the east, since those people will likely strike at Roy. Though I am not keen to Roy or any Fire Emblem characters, I will join the side of Flare Boy to teach the fools what for. Those people need a good punch in the face to see their foolhardy ways.

Really Good post.

I am well aware of the situation at GameFAQs, and I know how bad and dumb things will get when Smash 4 is formally unveiled. I saw it happen when Brawl was unveiled.

Yeah, GameFAQs is basically the strongest place for Chrom, and the sad thing is they don't really give a reason for their support of Chrom aside from him being "the latest hero" and him being "the most likely character to get in". The most vocal Chrom supporter there was even someone who was telling everyone to put Chrom on their rosters even before FE13 was released, and had the same reasons for supporting the character as everyone else did.

As SSBF asked earlier, I do think its possible to "crack" GameFAQs. I already got several ideas in mind. I just wish they would start up social groups again that way I can re-form the Knights of Elibe.

You brought up my "nation" analogy However, it goes a little further. There are basically three major factions this time time in terms of a FE characters:
1. Roy fans.
2. FE13 fans
3. Female fans.

For FE13 fans, they want a character in to represent FE13. For female FE character fans they want a female FE character in. The problem is that these two "nations" are pretty divided themselves as to who the character should be for their factions. While a FE13 fan and/or female FE fan might not want Roy in, they also would not want lots of other FE13 and/or female FE characters. You also have a big of overlap between the latter two groups in the cases of Anna and Lucina.

For example, among FE13 fans, you have supporters of Chrom, Lucina, Anna, and My Unit. Chrom has the most support of all the FE13 characters, yet among Smash Bros. fans and other FE13 fans is hurt due to his "blandness" and being seen as "another blue-haired swordsmen". While Lucina benfits from being more liked among FE13 fans and being "female", she has harder time than Chrom among Smash Bros. fans due to her very strong similarities to Marth. Then you have people who want Anna who believe she would stand out far better than both Chrom and Lucina, and could also serve to rep the series as a whole. However, although My Unit has the least support, the supporters of My Unit claim that he/she could stand out far more than Chrom/Lucina, and unlike Anna, is actually important to the plot of FE13 (though the other fanbases counter this by saying My Unit does not even have a defined appearance, voice, name, or design).

For female FE character supporters you again have Anna and Lucina (as well as a few people who are hoping for female My Unit). Not only that you have people who want some older lords such as Lyn and Micaiah. So basically you have a divide among female FE character supporters who argue between someone who could be female and rep FE13 while those who want a non-FE13 character. The side of the FE13 characters (particularly Anna and Lucina) is stronger than it is for Lyn or Micaiah (just look at how much that Anna thread has grown).

The problem is that these people absolutely cannot agree on who should be the one to represent FE13 or which female FE character it should be, so when they are not fighting each other, they attack Roy, who neither reps FE13 nor does he have boobs. However, even then Roy has among the largest fanbases for a character for Smash 4, and amongst his competition for FE13 characters (especially Chrom and Lucina), he looks like a more attractive choice among Smash Bros. fans.

The key will be to get people accepting of the idea of four FE characters. For a fourth slot, it would be an absolute no-man's land as you would have the fanbases of Chrom, Lucina, Anna, My Unit, Lyn, and Micaiah all debating which one deserves it the most (or which would be the best choice).

Having people accept it as Marth, Roy, Ike, and <insert your favorite FE character here> on fan rosters, would be the ideal situation for Roy supporters as it would mean far less fights we would have to engage in.

I am glad to see you are on the side of Roy, Habanero. You will certainly be a spicy ally for our cause (we are certainly going to need all the help we can get).

For the longest time now, I had been meaning to make another "rally" epic post for Roy in this topic (I was planning to post it right before FE13's North American release), and I wanted to do it again before the European release of FE13. However, I have been so busy I have not gotten around to doing it. I am hoping I finally am able to start work on it and finish it before E3 2013 rolls around.

Here is the one I made back in mid-December last year:
http://smashboards.com/threads/roy.324203/page-6#post-15145375

Also, its amusing that I wrote this:
n the coming months, the biggest obstacle will be that the Chrom fanbase will grow as a result of the Western fanbase finally getting to play Fire Emblem Awakening. This is when we will probably start to see some real Chrom fans instead of people that just want to rally behind a character they think will likely get in (expected, not wanted).

Although far, far more people are expecting Chrom, his thread received barely any activity even when FE13 was finally internationally released (most of the posts in it are from last year). Despite lots of people loving FE13, lots of people are still ho-hum on Chrom. Chrom appears on nearly fan-roster though. I think that is what we need to challenge more anything, the idea that Chrom is "inevitable".

As a lurker in the GFAQs boards, I can say this is very much true.

The sheer amount of stupidity going on there every day is astounding. Guess we will need some mods to take care of the stupid posts that will come.

I am a long-time veteran of GameFAQs (have been a member there since 2001), and that site has gotten progressively stupider each year. The pre-Brawl days were absolutely horrible there. Absolutely horrific. Things are bad right now for the Smash 4 boards, and will get much, much worse when the game is actually unveiled.

Meh, I'm not too particularly fond of Roy, so I'll just sit back and watch the fireworks. I may poke a couple laughs at both sides for ****s and giggles. And try to piss off the Chrom fans by rubbing Lucina's popularity in their face. Then I'll go off on my usual tangent of how Lyn is the best choice because gameplay. And then rub the fact that she matches Chrom in popularity in the West right across their stupid grins.

It'll be a good time... I can't wait actually.

I think agitating fanbases just for the hell of it is immature. I mean there is characters I really don't like (Krystal, Waluigi), yet I don't go into their threads and start trolling them or crap talking about them.

As for those points against Chrom, Chrom fans will simply say it does not matter that Lucina is slightly more popular than him among FE fans, and that Chrom being an overall more unique choice than Lucina more than negates that (as well them arguing Chrom is more of the main character to FE13 than Lucina is). They also likely won't care if you say Lyn is as popular as Chrom is among FE fans, because they would say Chrom has more merit to be in since he is more recent and represents FE13.

Those popularity arguments won't bother Chrom fans, but saying Chrom is "boring" or "just another blue-haired swordsmen" will certainly get on their nerves.

Crushing ignorant morons like playing a Whack-a-Mole arcade game... it will surely be interesting.

I am not looking forward to that. I am not the character fighter I used to be. During pre-Brawl, I was a very fearsome force to be reckoned with, and I was much more forceful and aggressive then. I simply don't have the same passion that I used to.

Assuming both Ridley and Mega Man get confirmed at E3 2013, and I decide to stick around, the only character I will putting any effort into supporting will be Roy (Mewtwo is just fine on his own, despite me wanting him a lot too).

However, on some level, I am looking forward to having one last character fight for Smash Bros.

Guuuys, I don't think I'll be ready for this. I'm not that emotionally strong...But I'll try my best against ignorant fans. Gamefaqs is far, far more worse, especially when it comes FE like Roy, Chrom, etc, as I'm sure you all know.

If everyone works together in defending Roy, it will certainly not seem daunting. Just follow our lead. I will try to show some pointers on defending Roy, however, even if you don't have much to contribute, just voicing your objection to detractors goes a long way too. If detractors knew there are far more Roy supporters than they believe, they will be less inclined to bash Roy.

Anyway, my efforts for the next five weeks pertaining to Smash Bros. will be to write up my pre-E3 rally post for Roy, as well as get everything together for a proper Roy support topic (all the stuff will be pasted into the second post in this topic).

In five weeks all the "calm" we have had is going to end. Its going to be a hard war for the next 1.5 years. Unlike many other popularly requested characters for Smash 4, Roy is most likely a character that will be a hidden character, and as such won't be confirmed until close to the game's release.

 

[FalKoopa]

Well then,

Everyone! Prepare yourself!

You'll get no sympathy from the coming storm!

So, Fight for your friends, and defeat it with ph1r3!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Will the Knights of Elibe be able to stand up full on war with all the other continents?
You'll see it soon.

Only at SmashBoards!

 

[ChronoBound]

Will the Knights of Elibe be able to stand up full on war with all the other continents?
You'll see it soon.

Only at SmashBoards!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Chrono you should totally make an SmashBoards Roy army. You are our Lord, Roy. Leader of the Alliance.

Others can be:

Deputy Cheif Lilinia: aka Croph.
Close friend Wolt: someone who can counter quotes directly, as a Sniper would.
Green Paladin Lance: serious supporter and alliance member, loyal to the cause
Red Paladin Alan: laid back dude and alliance member, also very loyal to the cause
Mercenary Dieck: a strong member, drops by frequently and efficiently in 'battles' aka arguments
The Marcus: THE Marcus. Old veteran who wanted Roy in since before anyone could remember

And, others.

Forgivemeimhighlol

 

[FalKoopa]

I'm applying for the role of Alan.

 

[Frostwraith]

Chrono you should totally make an SmashBoards Roy army. You are our Lord, Roy. Leader of the Alliance.

Others can be:

Deputy Cheif Lilinia: aka Croph.
Close friend Wolt: someone who can counter quotes directly, as a Sniper would.
Green Paladin Lance: serious supporter and alliance member, loyal to the cause
Red Paladin Alan: laid back dude and alliance member, also very loyal to the cause
Mercenary Dieck: a strong member, drops by frequently and efficiently in 'battles' aka arguments
The Marcus: THE Marcus. Old veteran who wanted Roy in since before anyone could remember

And, others.

Forgivemeimhighlol

Is there any Dark Mage or Druid? I want to be one.

I'm gonna do some research.

Okay, I'm Raigh, the only male Shaman in FE6 and Lugh's twin. (I also have a twin brother IRL, so it's quite fitting.)

I really need to play the GBA FEs.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ray / Rei / Reigh is the best Shaman you'll get.

Also I've been thinking of doing a FE6 playthrough with you all. Anyone willing to watch?

 

[•Col•]

You know, I kinda wish the Hasha no Tsurugi manga wasn't as long as it is. I bet if it was something you could read in one sitting, then we could use it to garner more support for Roy among Smash fans. D:

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impatient kids with your single sitting reads. I've got ADD, I've got no problem with reading.

I haven't actually read the manga though :D

 

[Autumn ♫]

I would really enjoy seeing Roy in the next Smash along with Lyn. Heck, when the arguing comes I'll be ready to help defend anyone who seems worthy of being in Smash to me, Roy included. Sounds like it'll be fun arguing since I've learned how to argue very well. I almost never lose an argument so I guess I'll be in the Roy army

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, anyone want me to do a playthrough or not? Cause it's hell of a lot of work making those pics and comments needed to do this, so if nobody actually wants to see it it saves a lot of work lol

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So, anyone want me to do a playthrough or not? Cause it's hell of a lot of work making those pics and comments needed to do this, so if nobody actually wants to see it it saves a lot of work lol

I'd be cool with it. Just don't mention Impa, okay?

 

[Croph]

D'aww Raigh and Lugh. I love one more than the other lol.

Spoiler

But yeah, Roy army sounds pretty cool...and I get to be Lilina? :D Cool.

So, anyone want me to do a playthrough or not? Cause it's hell of a lot of work making those pics and comments needed to do this, so if nobody actually wants to see it it saves a lot of work lol

Yeah, I'm cool with it too. Would be very nice.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Alright I'm gonna start this soon. Y'all get to decide some stuff for me to do to. Will be fun, and will create some more hype for Roy I'd think.

 

[Deleted member]

In a little over a month, the next stage of speculating will commence. New users will flock onto the scene, but the ones that should be watched over are the ones from GameFAQs. The people as you know are not the brightest bunch of the group, but will swarm in large masses. To tame them you'll need to stay sharp, diligent, and cunning.

I say this because of their attachment to Chrom and their denial of anything else. As said by Chrono, these discussions are like a Fire Emblem game and there is a notable division between "nations". Prepare yourselves for the frontal assault from the east, since those people will likely strike at Roy. Though I am not keen to Roy or any Fire Emblem characters, I will join the side of Flare Boy to teach the fools what for. Those people need a good punch in the face to see their foolhardy ways.

*clap hands*
Best post said in awhile.

I myself am preparing for the inevitable flood of GameFAQs idiots. Knowing myself, I'll be dealing with a war of my own if Mega Man isn't confirmed at E3 (I would imagine that Bayonetta would rise up to be one of the more popular third-party choices once E3 comes around), but I will definitely be helping out with Roy.

Guuuys, I don't think I'll be ready for this. I'm not that emotionally strong...But I'll try my best against ignorant fans. Gamefaqs is far, far more worse, especially when it comes FE like Roy, Chrom, etc, as I'm sure you all know.

This goes without saying. The amount of stupidity that goes on there is astounding. GameFAQs is worse today than it was two years ago and it was not pretty then.

Roy is very popular as a choice for Smash Bros. to the point where he is even competitive with characters like Isaac in terms of requests, and its really only the Big 5 (Mewtwo, Mega Man, Ridley, K. Rool, Little Mac) that you could definitely say there is a stronger demand for him in the West.

Í'd say that Isaac has more demand for inclusion than Roy. Isaac has very, very strong demand in the West and is only slightly behind Little Mac in requests overall (although is uncommonly requested in the West). Roy is one of the two most wanted characters in Japan, although we have to remember that the scene is much smaller than that of the West and while popular in the West, he face much more opposition. That said, Roy is after Isaac in requests.

The key will be to get people accepting of the idea of four FE characters. For a fourth slot, it would be an absolute no-man's land as you would have the fanbases of Chrom, Lucina, Anna, My Unit, Lyn, and Micaiah all debating which one deserves it the most (or which would be the best choice).

Having people accept it as Marth, Roy, Ike, and <insert your favorite FE character here> on fan rosters, would be the ideal situation for Roy supporters as it would mean far less fights we would have to engage in.

This is a good idea, but how are we going to be able to convince them of that? I mean, even I am not convinced that four characters are likely and feel as we won't get four unless we get DLC (which is a big if).

Then we have to deal with the people who believe that we're only getting Marth and Chrom (for some insane reason). Just do be aware of harvestmoonmike, who will argue "each game has a pattern with Pokémon and Fire Emblem in that only the first and the latest gets representation" and is a brick wall. He's also pretty well respected on GameFAQs.

Impatient kids with your single sitting reads. I've got ADD, I've got no problem with reading.

Reminds me of my ADHD, although I noticed that when I'm really dedicated towards something, I'm hyper focused. Should mean good things for the Roy and Mega Man fan base and I don't plan on ever backing down from supporting these characters.

 

[•Col•]

Impatient kids with your single sitting reads. I've got ADD, I've got no problem with reading.

I haven't actually read the manga though :D

I'm not the one with the problem. D: I was talking about the people who oppose Roy in that they most likely wouldn't set time aside to read the manga if they can't do it in one sitting.

But honestly it's not even a patience issue. The manga is pretty freaking big for just being a Fire Emblem spinoff. There's 45 chapters and on average a chapter is 40-50 pages long... That's 1800-2250 pages.

Kinda ridiculous to do in one sitting.

 

[FlareHabanero]

In the actual Smash 4, I think Roy will probably end up being more unique than Falco and Ganondorf were in Brawl. He most likely will at least have two unique specials, his own unique Final Smash, and a wide assortment of unique A-moves. A semi-clone Roy would probably only share 1 or 2 specials with Marth (counter being one of them), and maybe a few similar A-moves with Marth/Ike. Otherwise, he most likely will be pretty close to a Lucas/Wolf type character (although Roy would likely have at least several unique specials of his own as well as his own Final Smash).

That's a subjective thing, considering we have absolutely no idea on the directing the character will take. The biggest obstacle by far is the standard attacks, which to be blunt are a challenge due to the basis of Roy being a pretty straight forward sword user. It's the same problem Issac also has; more liberties with specials but has a risk of being dragged down by the generic fluff. However, I did make an attempt to de-clone Roy, also introducing the concept of having a charge up move in the form of an move called Ignited Seals.

Spoiler

Special

Flare Blade (Neutral)

A projectile, where Roy swings his sword and creates a large blade of fire that slices through the air forward. Similar to Pit's Palutena's Arrow, the attack's knockback and power will grow slightly stronger the longer it's held but cannot be held using the shield or roll. However as the attack moves, it decimates in size and power.

The Ignited variant removes the stagnating factor and produces a larger and stronger flame.

Blazer (Up)

Normally, the attack functions similar to Blazer from Melee with the only difference being that Roy is not left helpless after the attack and can preform another action (except another Blazer).

The Ignited version extends the length and power of the attack, and instead of causing multiple hits I'll preform a single powerful hit more reminiscent of Marth's Dolphin Slash. The power is based around when it executed; the earlier the stronger.

Double-Edge Strike (Side)

Roy preforms a forward thrust to stab the opponent, ignoring shields and counters. If the attack hits, the opponent will be hit with modest amounts of damage and briefly pause before being knocked back. During the pause, Roy can preform several different actions depending on the button input.

A: Another quick stab that preforms more knockback and damage then the first.
A + Up: Roy preforms a somersault that causes high vertical knockback.
A + Side: A quick rundown attack where Roy slices through the opponent.
A + Down: Points downwards to knock the opponent down.
A (Ignited): Roy preforms a series of stabs in quick succession, then finishes with a quick slash.
A + Up (Ignited): Preforms a somersault, then slams the opponent down with a quick downwards slash engulfed in fire.
A + Side (Ignited): A quick rush down attack where Roy slashes the opponent three time at different angles.
A + Down (Ignited): Points downwards with a large explosion.

However, the attack also has a lot of ending lag and can leave Roy vulnerable if used in the air. If a command is pressed in mid air, Roy will stab the opponent and then toss downwards.

Ignited Seals (Down)

Roy hold the sword to his body to power up the Sword of Seals. This move takes about 3 seconds to charge, but the catch is that the charge cannot be saved in anyway. When the move is fully charged, the Sword of Seals will be depicted as engulfed in fire and the next smash or special attack will have an additional fire effect if not already present. The next smash attack or special attack will do 1.5x more damage and knockback, with some attacks additionally changing in effects. However, only the next attacks in question will be effected, and the move will need to be recharged again after execution.

Forblaze (Final Smash)
Roy summons a large inferno that engulfs the field in a devastating fiery twister, then ends with a large explosion. The center inflicts more damage then the outer sides.

Standard

Neutral: A single horizontal slash in front.
Up Tilt: Spins his sword vertically upwards in front of him.
Side Tilt: Thrusts forward with a quick stab. Weak but very fast with good range, great for spacing.
Down Tilt: Swipes downwards below the ankles. The sourspot causes tripping, while the sweetspot knocks the opponent vertically. Can be used to create a pseudo-crawl.
[Up Smash: Stabs upwards similar to Melee. Replaced with an explosion for the Ignited version.
Side Smash: Slams his sword reminiscent to his old Flare Blade. The Ignited version adds an additional explosion that causes more knockback.
Down Smash: Stabs the ground with his sword. The center of the attack does the most damage and knockback, while the shockwaves it creates on the sides causes tripping. The Ignited version has a fire effect instead and replaces the weaker hitbox with an extension of his stronger hitbox.
Dash: Slashes forward similar to Marth's dash

Aerial

Neutral: A forward to back swing that circles his whole body. Similar properties to his old down aerial minus the meteor smash properties.
Up: Two forward to back slashes upwards.
Forward: A single horizontal swing designed for spacing.
Backward: Kicks backwards twice, similar to Link's back aerial. Unlike other Roy's attacks, this does not involve Roy's typical sweetspot mechanic.
Down: A downwards slash in front of him at a 160 angle with meteor smash properties; a weak meteor smash when sourspotted, a strong meteor smash when sweetspotted. Has more beginning lag then ending lag.

Throws


Pummel: Knees the opponent, similar to Marth's.
Up: Preforms a uppercut with his sword in a vein to his Blazer, but with animations more reminiscentto Ike's up tilt.
Forward: A forward kick.
Backward: Tosses the opponent backwards.
Down: Slams the opponent downwards in front of him, can be used for chain grabbing.

For FE13 fans, they want a character in to represent FE13. For female FE character fans they want a female FE character in. The problem is that these two "nations" are pretty divided themselves as to who the character should be for their factions. While a FE13 fan and/or female FE fan might not want Roy in, they also would not want lots of other FE13 and/or female FE characters. You also have a big of overlap between the latter two groups in the cases of Anna and Lucina.

For example, among FE13 fans, you have supporters of Chrom, Lucina, Anna, and My Unit. Chrom has the most support of all the FE13 characters, yet among Smash Bros. fans and other FE13 fans is hurt due to his "blandness" and being seen as "another blue-haired swordsmen". While Lucina benfits from being more liked among FE13 fans and being "female", she has harder time than Chrom among Smash Bros. fans due to her very strong similarities to Marth. Then you have people who want Anna who believe she would stand out far better than both Chrom and Lucina, and could also serve to rep the series as a whole. However, although My Unit has the least support, the supporters of My Unit claim that he/she could stand out far more than Chrom/Lucina, and unlike Anna, is actually important to the plot of FE13 (though the other fanbases counter this by saying My Unit does not even have a defined appearance, voice, name, or design).

The whole argument regarding to using the latest game for characters is not exactly a definitive choice. Personally I blame the notion regarding to how Sakurai wanted a more recent lord and got Ike out of it. But this time around, it's not going to fly as smoothly regardless on how you look at it. The characters don't really stand out, and are not particularly fond of by many people. Fire Emblem seems to be the only notable case of this. Pokemon also has a similar problem, but the choices are more varied meaning that theoretically any choice would be a good choice in the long run. You can say a lot more for Zoroark and Genesect then Chrom and Lucina.

For female FE character supporters you again have Anna and Lucina (as well as a few people who are hoping for female My Unit). Not only that you have people who want some older lords such as Lyn and Micaiah. So basically you have a divide among female FE character supporters who argue between someone who could be female and rep FE13 while those who want a non-FE13 character. The side of the FE13 characters (particularly Anna and Lucina) is stronger than it is for Lyn or Micaiah (just look at how much that Anna thread has grown).

While flawed, the notion of the females is a tad more justified from the standpoint of having more to offer. For example, Micaiah is a mage, which sticks out like a sore thumb compared to other Lords who are for the most part swordsmen. However, a character should not be merited by gender, but what they can offer. This is where I can see why people would want Caeda, Anna, Lyn, or Micaiah and yet are skeptical over Lucina.

The problem is that these people absolutely cannot agree on who should be the one to represent FE13 or which female FE character it should be, so when they are not fighting each other, they attack Roy, who neither reps FE13 nor does he have boobs. However, even then Roy has among the largest fanbases for a character for Smash 4, and amongst his competition for FE13 characters (especially Chrom and Lucina), he looks like a more attractive choice among Smash Bros. fans.

What makes Roy standout from the rest of the runts is that he was an already established character in Super Smash Bros., which is also why he is more popular. At this point, the notion of bringing back a character might be the smarter move then picking a new one. People don't even care that much about the new toys that much, because they are dull.

I am glad to see you are on the side of Roy, Habanero. You will certainly be a spicy ally for our cause (we are certainly going to need all the help we can get).

You're going to need my help around here, my experience with gameplay will help you along the way. Also, because those nitwits spewing garbage about trashing Takamaru and praising Chrom need to be taught a lesson and I'd say this would be a good opportunity to stab them.

Although far, far more people are expecting Chrom, his thread received barely any activity even when FE13 was finally internationally released (most of the posts in it are from last year). Despite lots of people loving FE13, lots of people are still ho-hum on Chrom. Chrom appears on nearly fan-roster though. I think that is what we need to challenge more anything, the idea that Chrom is "inevitable".

I wish people would not think that way, we want to play as characters we want not expect. Chrom is a character that offers practically nothing to the table, and because of that he'll probably be ignored. Remember, back in pre-Melee most of the Lords were ignored in favor of Roy, mainly because his Sword of Seals made him standout more. Chrom lacks that special something, and will probably be ignored because of it.

I am a long-time veteran of GameFAQs (have been a member there since 2001), and that site has gotten progressively stupider each year. The pre-Brawl days were absolutely horrible there. Absolutely horrific. Things are bad right now for the Smash 4 boards, and will get much, much worse when the game is actually unveiled.

History repeats itself all the time, so we'll just strike while the iron is hot. It will be more entertaining then us aimlessly speculating over very vague hints.

I am not looking forward to that. I am not the character fighter I used to be. During pre-Brawl, I was a very fearsome force to be reckoned with, and I was much more forceful and aggressive then. I simply don't have the same passion that I used to.

I can see your passion is getting weak, but at the same time I can see why. You're busy with life, so you cannot carry the torch for long. But keeping an optimistic attitude should be good enough, and be encouraging whenever possible.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I am not looking forward to that. I am not the character fighter I used to be. During pre-Brawl, I was a very fearsome force to be reckoned with, and I was much more forceful and aggressive then. I simply don't have the same passion that I used to.

Get ahead of yourself Marcus!

We have a good ammount of members in YOUR alliance now. Don't leave your morale hanging now!

YOU STILL GOT THAT SILVER LANCE MAN!

Anyways, suggestions for my playthrough?

Certain characters I should try to use? Certain Supports people wanna see?

 

[Deleted member]

I myself am preparing for the inevitable flood of GameFAQs idiots. Knowing myself, I'll be dealing with a war of my own if Mega Man isn't confirmed at E3 (I would imagine that Bayonetta would rise up to be one of the more popular third-party choices once E3 comes around),

If Bayonetta isn't revealed for Smash at E3, she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting in. Her only merit is being a hype character. E3 is her only shot at doing just that. Unless the game goes into such long development that we go through 2 whole E3s without a release date.

 

[Deleted member]

If Bayonetta isn't revealed for Smash at E3, she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting in. Her only merit is being a hype character. E3 is her only shot at doing just that. Unless the game goes into such long development that we go through 2 whole E3s without a release date.

I know that (and I've never really taken Bayonetta seriously as a candidate), but I do feel as the fan base will grow considerably nonetheless due to the upcoming Bayonetta 2. Depending on sales, that could help boom the fan base even further.

That said, this conversation is better off in another thread.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono you should totally make an SmashBoards Roy army. You are our Lord, Roy. Leader of the Alliance.

Hahaha. I was actually thinking about doing something like that, but assigning people to classes as opposed to characters.

You know, I kinda wish the Hasha no Tsurugi manga wasn't as long as it is. I bet if it was something you could read in one sitting, then we could use it to garner more support for Roy among Smash fans. D:

Yeah, Hasha no Tsurigi is very long for a FE spinoff manga. It ran from 2002 to 2006 (or 2005). It ran in Shonen Jump.

The other problem with Hasha no Tsurigi is that it mostly focuses around Al and his buddies (Tiena, Gant, etc.), as opposed to mostly Roy and his army. Its basically like FE5 in comparison to FE4 Generation 2. It shows another side to a conflict, but there are various points where Roy gets to shine in the spotlight.

I have been re-reading it so that I could direct Roy fans to the parts where Roy has a very important role in the manga. Its been quite tedious.

Another thing is that Hasha no Tsurigi is quite violent, a lot of blood spray.

There is a lot of cool images in it to use for Roy support (I have so far used two pages from it for Roy).

So, anyone want me to do a playthrough or not? Cause it's hell of a lot of work making those pics and comments needed to do this, so if nobody actually wants to see it it saves a lot of work lol

I don't really think that's necessary.

Then we have to deal with the people who believe that we're only getting Marth and Chrom (for some insane reason). Just do be aware of harvestmoonmike, who will argue "each game has a pattern with Pokémon and Fire Emblem in that only the first and the latest gets representation" and is a brick wall. He's also pretty well respected on GameFAQs.s.

I am well-respected on GameFAQs too. Whenever I come out with a topic there, it is met with a whole bunch of accolades. I have quite a bit of respect among the FE fanbase there as well (at least among the Super Famicom FE fans, especially due to all the things I have written pertaining to FE5, such as the most detailed review for the game on the entire site, and a massive piece celebrating the game when it turned 10 years old).

Among Smash Bros. fans, I am much more well known, however, I have divorced myself from GameFAQs for quite a while, so a lot of the younger/newer posters don't know who I am.

I am very glad to hear that you will be a stalwart ally in the cause of Roy. If your fight and efforts for Mega Man are any indication, you are going to bring a lot of good to our cause.

That's a subjective thing, considering we have absolutely no idea on the directing the character will take. The biggest obstacle by far is the standard attacks, which to be blunt are a challenge due to the basis of Roy being a pretty straight forward sword user. It's the same problem Issac also has; more liberties with specials but has a risk of being dragged down by the generic fluff. However, I did make an attempt to de-clone Roy, also introducing the concept of having a charge up move in the form of an move called Ignited Seals.

Spoiler

Special

Flare Blade (Neutral)

A projectile, where Roy swings his sword and creates a large blade of fire that slices through the air forward. Similar to Pit's Palutena's Arrow, the attack's knockback and power will grow slightly stronger the longer it's held but cannot be held using the shield or roll. However as the attack moves, it decimates in size and power.

The Ignited variant removes the stagnating factor and produces a larger and stronger flame.

Blazer (Up)

Normally, the attack functions similar to Blazer from Melee with the only difference being that Roy is not left helpless after the attack and can preform another action (except another Blazer).

The Ignited version extends the length and power of the attack, and instead of causing multiple hits I'll preform a single powerful hit more reminiscent of Marth's Dolphin Slash. The power is based around when it executed; the earlier the stronger.

Double-Edge Strike (Side)

Roy preforms a forward thrust to stab the opponent, ignoring shields and counters. If the attack hits, the opponent will be hit with modest amounts of damage and briefly pause before being knocked back. During the pause, Roy can preform several different actions depending on the button input.

A: Another quick stab that preforms more knockback and damage then the first.
A + Up: Roy preforms a somersault that causes high vertical knockback.
A + Side: A quick rundown attack where Roy slices through the opponent.
A + Down: Points downwards to knock the opponent down.
A (Ignited): Roy preforms a series of stabs in quick succession, then finishes with a quick slash.
A + Up (Ignited): Preforms a somersault, then slams the opponent down with a quick downwards slash engulfed in fire.
A + Side (Ignited): A quick rush down attack where Roy slashes the opponent three time at different angles.
A + Down (Ignited): Points downwards with a large explosion.

However, the attack also has a lot of ending lag and can leave Roy vulnerable if used in the air. If a command is pressed in mid air, Roy will stab the opponent and then toss downwards.

Ignited Seals (Down)

Roy hold the sword to his body to power up the Sword of Seals. This move takes about 3 seconds to charge, but the catch is that the charge cannot be saved in anyway. When the move is fully charged, the Sword of Seals will be depicted as engulfed in fire and the next smash or special attack will have an additional fire effect if not already present. The next smash attack or special attack will do 1.5x more damage and knockback, with some attacks additionally changing in effects. However, only the next attacks in question will be effected, and the move will need to be recharged again after execution.

Forblaze (Final Smash)
Roy summons a large inferno that engulfs the field in a devastating fiery twister, then ends with a large explosion. The center inflicts more damage then the outer sides.

Standard

Neutral: A single horizontal slash in front.
Up Tilt: Spins his sword vertically upwards in front of him.
Side Tilt: Thrusts forward with a quick stab. Weak but very fast with good range, great for spacing.
Down Tilt: Swipes downwards below the ankles. The sourspot causes tripping, while the sweetspot knocks the opponent vertically. Can be used to create a pseudo-crawl.
[Up Smash: Stabs upwards similar to Melee. Replaced with an explosion for the Ignited version.
Side Smash: Slams his sword reminiscent to his old Flare Blade. The Ignited version adds an additional explosion that causes more knockback.
Down Smash: Stabs the ground with his sword. The center of the attack does the most damage and knockback, while the shockwaves it creates on the sides causes tripping. The Ignited version has a fire effect instead and replaces the weaker hitbox with an extension of his stronger hitbox.
Dash: Slashes forward similar to Marth's dash

Aerial

Neutral: A forward to back swing that circles his whole body. Similar properties to his old down aerial minus the meteor smash properties.
Up: Two forward to back slashes upwards.
Forward: A single horizontal swing designed for spacing.
Backward: Kicks backwards twice, similar to Link's back aerial. Unlike other Roy's attacks, this does not involve Roy's typical sweetspot mechanic.
Down: A downwards slash in front of him at a 160 angle with meteor smash properties; a weak meteor smash when sourspotted, a strong meteor smash when sweetspotted. Has more beginning lag then ending lag.

Throws


Pummel: Knees the opponent, similar to Marth's.
Up: Preforms a uppercut with his sword in a vein to his Blazer, but with animations more reminiscentto Ike's up tilt.
Forward: A forward kick.
Backward: Tosses the opponent backwards.
Down: Slams the opponent downwards in front of him, can be used for chain grabbing.

That is an excellent moveset for Roy and you should feel proud of yourself for coming up with it. Whenever, I get around to finally making the Roy support post this will be among the premier de-cloned Roy movesets.

The whole argument regarding to using the latest game for characters is not exactly a definitive choice. Personally I blame the notion regarding to how Sakurai wanted a more recent lord and got Ike out of it. But this time around, it's not going to fly as smoothly regardless on how you look at it. The characters don't really stand out, and are not particularly fond of by many people. Fire Emblem seems to be the only notable case of this. Pokemon also has a similar problem, but the choices are more varied meaning that theoretically any choice would be a good choice in the long run. You can say a lot more for Zoroark and Genesect then Chrom and Lucina.

The argument they also use in support of FE13 NEEDING a playable character is that its the most successful international FE since the GBA titles. FE13 sold really well in Japan too (behind only FE3 and FE4 in sales). There has been an artbook released for it as well as a new drama cd. They argue that such attention and success being devoted to FE13 means we absolutely cannot go without having a FE13 character.

However, there is really no niche for Chrom/Lucina to provide. Marth is already is the feminine swordsmen with flashy finesse, while Ike is the strong, serious swordsmen with the mercenary-like feel.

I don't think Chrom could really bring a "feel" that a FE character already in Smash Bros. has not already. I think IS is going to be more bold with their lord design in the next FE game, and I think the reason why Chrom/Lucina were so conservative was because FE13 in general was a FE All-Stars type game and really wanted to fit the traditional arche-types for the series (with the main villain again even being a dark dragon).

What makes Roy standout from the rest of the runts is that he was an already established character in Super Smash Bros., which is also why he is more popular. At this point, the notion of bringing back a character might be the smarter move then picking a new one. People don't even care that much about the new toys that much, because they are dull.

Yeah. I think if FE13 had been poorly received and/or Chrom/Lucina were weak lords (as units), there would be even less interest for them. I think there really would be a lot of fervent interest for a FE13 character if we got an Ephraim 2.0 or a Hector 2.0 instead of Ike 2.0.

I think though the biggest problem is challenging the notion that:
1. Chrom is inevitable.
2. That a FE13 character is mandatory due to its success.

The latter point could be refuted by showing what happened with FE9 (and FE10) in terms of sales (they were the nadir in sales for the series in Japan).

You're going to need my help around here, my experience with gameplay will help you along the way. Also, because those nitwits spewing garbage about trashing Takamaru and praising Chrom need to be taught a lesson and I'd say this would be a good opportunity to stab them

Yeah, as I mentioned before, defending characters from a gameplay point of view is not my strong point. Almost every character I ever supported for Smash Bros. did not need gameplay arguments to convince detractors.

I wish people would not think that way, we want to play as characters we want not expect. Chrom is a character that offers practically nothing to the table, and because of that he'll probably be ignored. Remember, back in pre-Melee most of the Lords were ignored in favor of Roy, mainly because his Sword of Seals made him standout more. Chrom lacks that special something, and will probably be ignored because of it.

I don't think Sakurai will ignore Chrom. He at the very least will seriously consider him and give him a good look. However, I could see Sakurai going to IS to tell them that Chrom does not bring much to the table in terms of a FE newcomers, and that even if they were to tell him to "cut Ike", he would bring up how there is a strong demand for Roy's return, and that cutting Ike would be met with a big backlash too even if he were to give Ike's moveset to Chrom.

The second problem Sakurai would have with Chrom is that if he includes Chrom this time, he is going to pick up far more fans, but if Chrom was excluded there would not be a negative fan reaction (however, if Chrom does get in, he is probably going to be the most weakly received FE character), and with Smash 5 he will likely have to bring back four FE swordsmen (assuming Roy is brought back in Smash 4 as well).

Sakurai being a big FE fan himself, I don't think the idea of bringing in another blue-haired swordsmen would sit well with him about what the series has to offer.

I think the idea of Anna could sprout out of Sakurai x IS discussion about what to do with FE in terms of playable characters. I think it could be that Marth, Roy, and Ike are the only three traditional swordsmen the FE series will ever have in Smash Bros., especially considering that there will be other exotic swordsmen that will likely be brought in (Takamaru, Isaac/Shulk, possibly a decloned Ganondorf) that would make any traditional swordsmen FE newcomer seem like a bland addition.

History repeats itself all the time, so we'll just strike while the iron is hot. It will be more entertaining then us aimlessly speculating over very vague hints.

Sakurai has a tendency to blindside everyone and hit us with something very few people saw coming. In terms of characters he does not really have much big players left, so who knows what he is going to do in terms of the first batch of newcomers for Smash 4.

Even among "guest" characters, aside from possibly Mega Man, there are no other third-party characters out there that are as popular or well-known as Sonic and Snake are (whom are probably the most popular non-Nintendo video game characters of all time).

I can see your passion is getting weak, but at the same time I can see why. You're busy with life, so you cannot carry the torch for long. But keeping an optimistic attitude should be good enough, and be encouraging whenever possible.

Yeah, I have already been doing this kind of stuff for over a decade. I think if anyone had been doing what I have been doing since 2001, they likely would have just stopped with Brawl.

I still have a bit of fight left in me. However, I can't channel it into a whole bunch of characters like I did in the pre-Melee and pre-Brawl days.

Also, yeah I have been extremely busy nowadays, and don't have the time that I used to back during the pre-Brawl and pre-Melee days.

Get ahead of yourself Marcus!

We have a good ammount of members in YOUR alliance now. Don't leave your morale hanging now!

YOU STILL GOT THAT SILVER LANCE MAN!

Anyways, suggestions for my playthrough?

Certain characters I should try to use? Certain Supports people wanna see?

Hahaha, I would not say I am the Marcus of the Roy fanbase.

My morale is not low, I am just really fatigued in regards to Smash Bros. fandom.

I would say I am Fin more than anything else. Like Fin, I have been fighting for a very long time, and been around for a war that basically no one else was for (pre-Melee), like Fin was the only guy still around from Generation 1 of FE4.

Like Fin, I was absolutely a force\ to be reckoned with during my second major conflict (pre-Brawl) I was involved with (FE5). Fin was perhaps the best non-staff unit in FE5.

During Fin's last conflict (FE4 Generation 2) he was fatigued and a bit haggard, and was not up to the same level as many of the units of that generation (at least a lot of the children with holy blood), but he was still force to be reckoned with (especially if you managed to get over 50 kills with Fin's Hero Lance back in Generation 1) due to his experience in the previous two conflicts he was in.

I am not up to making the massive back and forth walls-of-text debates that I was used to be able to, but I still pull out some criticals.

Fin's dedication to the Lenster Royal Family was unprecedented in the FE series. He started fighting alongside his lord when he was only a young teen, and basically raised the son of his former lord, and swore his life to the restoration of Manster. Fin fought longer than any other FE character for the restoration and liberation of homeland and lord.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Are there any others that just love reading Chrono's replies/messages/whatever you want to call them? Maybe I just love hearing about what happened pre-Melee and pre-Brawl. I think it's ight be just my love of history and Smash.

 

[Croph]

I really do like the FE6 manga overall. I didn't know it ran in Shonen Jump, that's cool.

<3 <3 <3

I'm usually not one to complain, but I'm growing little bit impatient about the social groups. I hope the they'll be back before E3.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Everyone's getting hyped up to support Roy!

This is amazing!

Let's do it guys! Let's fight back the immanent horde!

Let's make this a reality again!

We really need some kind of group name though.

Perhaps "The New Knights of Elibe!" I think a new name is only fitting. The people have changed and frankly so has our cause. We're not simply awaiting a veteran to return. We're supporting a character who was previously cut. Anyways just some thoughts.

 

[Deleted member]

You're going to need my help around here, my experience with gameplay will help you along the way. Also, because those nitwits spewing garbage about trashing Takamaru and praising Chrom need to be taught a lesson and I'd say this would be a good opportunity to stab them.

Especially if Takamaru gets confirmed at E3 this year. Then you would really have the right to call detractors out on trashing Takamaru.

I wish people would not think that way, we want to play as characters we want not expect. Chrom is a character that offers practically nothing to the table, and because of that he'll probably be ignored. Remember, back in pre-Melee most of the Lords were ignored in favor of Roy, mainly because his Sword of Seals made him standout more. Chrom lacks that special something, and will probably be ignored because of it.

It always makes me feel good when people realize this. I notice a similar phenomenon with Pac-Man in that many people expect Pac-Man but don't really want him in. Like Chrom, it's gotten really bad on GameFAQs (although Chrom is slightly worse).

I can see your passion is getting weak, but at the same time I can see why. You're busy with life, so you cannot carry the torch for long. But keeping an optimistic attitude should be good enough, and be encouraging whenever possible.

I'm curious about who exactly will carry the torch Chrono has carried for so long after he gives his last farewell. I'd say me, but like Chrono, I'm not going to be around for SSB5. It's going to have to be someone who is still dedicated to character discussions after SSB4 that knows Chrono well and have very strong arguments.

Yeah, Hasha no Tsurigi is very long for a FE spinoff manga. It ran from 2002 to 2006 (or 2005). It ran in Shonen Jump.

The other problem with Hasha no Tsurigi is that it mostly focuses around Al and his buddies (Tiena, Gant, etc.), as opposed to mostly Roy and his army. Its basically like FE5 in comparison to FE4 Generation 2. It shows another side to a conflict, but there are various points where Roy gets to shine in the spotlight.

I have been re-reading it so that I could direct Roy fans to the parts where Roy has a very important role in the manga. Its been quite tedious.

Another thing is that Hasha no Tsurigi is quite violent, a lot of blood spray.

There is a lot of cool images in it to use for Roy support (I have so far used two pages from it for Roy).

I'm surprised to hear that Hasha no Tsurigi being quite violent. I know it's Fire Emblem, but I'm surprised to see that they would take such liberties with the franchise.

I am very glad to hear that you will be a stalwart ally in the cause of Roy. If your fight and efforts for Mega Man are any indication, you are going to bring a lot of good to our cause.

I look forward to being part of the Knight of Elibe for the next 1.5 years, that's for sure. Given that my efforts will be dedicated to just Mega Man, King K. Rool, Roy, Isaac and Dixie Kong (along with Nintendo Brawl veterans especially if cuts are announced) for the next 1.5 years, I think I can manage.

One advice I would give is to ask the mods if they could give power over to you for the thread. I know Xiivi set up the veteran threads, but I've managed to convince the mods to give me power over the Mega Man thread, so I feel as it's worth a try.

Looking forward to the OP being transformed (or at least your first post). I can only imagine how it'll look after you're done.

The argument they also use in support of FE13 NEEDING a playable character is that its the most successful international FE since the GBA titles. FE13 sold really well in Japan too (behind only FE3 and FE4 in sales). There has been an artbook released for it as well as a new drama cd. They argue that such attention and success being devoted to FE13 means we absolutely cannot go without having a FE13 character.

However, there is really no niche for Chrom/Lucina to provide. Marth is already is the feminine swordsmen with flashy finesse, while Ike is the strong, serious swordsmen with the mercenary-like feel.

I don't think Chrom could really bring a "feel" that a FE character already in Smash Bros. has not already. I think IS is going to be more bold with their lord design in the next FE game, and I think the reason why Chrom/Lucina were so conservative was because FE13 in general was a FE All-Stars type game and really wanted to fit the traditional arche-types for the series (with the main villain again even being a dark dragon).

Smash speculation has started to make me hate the word "need".

Honestly, we've already gotten all the characters we need for this game and by that I mean characters that would bring in a significant amount of sale. Chrom is not going to make a big difference in sales regardless of his possible inclusion or exclusion. Those who argue that sales should bring in more representation for FE13 are better off arguing for stages, music, trophies, etc. Characters, on the other hand, don't automatically become more likely because of the sale. As said before, most people support Chrom based off the game itself, not because they want the character.

Let's make this a reality again!

We really need some kind of group name though.

Perhaps "The New Knights of Elibe!" I think a new name is only fitting. The people have changed and frankly so has our cause. We're not simply awaiting a veteran to return. We're supporting a character who was previously cut. Anyways just some thoughts.

I think a better name would be "The Knight of Elibe's Return: Roy for SSB4!" Fits so much better as it reflects on Roy's possible return.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Especially if Takamaru gets confirmed at E3 this year. Then you would really have the right to call detractors out on trashing Takamaru.

That'd be perfect. Also, hypothetically Dillon too. I also tried discussing that character but people were abnormally hostile towards him. If both were confirmed right off the bat, I'd have an excuse to point and laugh at morons. I HAVE CHORTLES!!

It always makes me feel good when people realize this. I notice a similar phenomenon with Pac-Man in that many people expect Pac-Man but don't really want him in. Like Chrom, it's gotten really bad on GameFAQs (although Chrom is slightly worse). Smash speculation has started to make me hate the word "need".

Honestly, we've already gotten all the characters we need for this game and by that I mean characters that would bring in a significant amount of sale. Chrom is not going to make a big difference in sales regardless of his possible inclusion or exclusion. Those who argue that sales should bring in more representation for FE13 are better off arguing for stages, music, trophies, etc. Characters, on the other hand, don't automatically become more likely because of the sale. As said before, most people support Chrom based off the game itself, not because they want the character.

Sales is pretty much the only reason why people think Chrom will be included, but at the same time we don't need him. In fact, we really don't need most characters already. However, we do want characters. Even if I disagree with several of them, I do respect them for at least having that desire from a few voices out there.

However, I can say that even if you don't agree on this, Chrom is pretty much the only unjustified one. While some might say Zoroark and Pac-man are also in this bandwagon too, there are legit supporters out there that will actually put effort into arguments.

That is an excellent moveset for Roy and you should feel proud of yourself for coming up with it. Whenever, I get around to finally making the Roy support post this will be among the premier de-cloned Roy movesets.

i could make it better to be honest, but I'm not complaining. Just remember to provide credit.

The argument they also use in support of FE13 NEEDING a playable character is that its the most successful international FE since the GBA titles. FE13 sold really well in Japan too (behind only FE3 and FE4 in sales). There has been an artbook released for it as well as a new drama cd. They argue that such attention and success being devoted to FE13 means we absolutely cannot go without having a FE13 character.

However, there is really no niche for Chrom/Lucina to provide. Marth is already is the feminine swordsmen with flashy finesse, while Ike is the strong, serious swordsmen with the mercenary-like feel.

I don't think Chrom could really bring a "feel" that a FE character already in Smash Bros. has not already. I think IS is going to be more bold with their lord design in the next FE game, and I think the reason why Chrom/Lucina were so conservative was because FE13 in general was a FE All-Stars type game and really wanted to fit the traditional arche-types for the series (with the main villain again even being a dark dragon).

Well the thing to remember that sales don't automatically translates to characters. Whether something is a success or failure does not matter, what does matter is something that can come out of it. In terms of stuff like music, stages, and trophies it's not a problem, but the main characters not standing out is. Granted it's a justified reason, basically going for the more straight forward route in order to demonstrate Fire Emblem at it's core.

But I will say that Fire Emblem: Awakening does something else that's beneficial. Most Lords from past games are brought back as DLC, meaning whatever argument about being "outdated" might be a moot point this time around. I mean, if Chrom and Lucina are not up to snuff, why not go for another character that would stand out more like say Ephrahim or Micaiah? Hell, make every Fire Emblem character wear their Awakening outfits (or a derivative), and you'd already be representing Fire Emblem: Awakening enough.

Yeah. I think if FE13 had been poorly received and/or Chrom/Lucina were weak lords (as units), there would be even less interest for them. I think there really would be a lot of fervent interest for a FE13 character if we got an Ephraim 2.0 or a Hector 2.0 instead of Ike 2.0.

I'm not everyone, but I'd like another take on Ephraim or Hector. Something a little different from the norm to change the pace. But alas, that's not the case. Granted I understand why, but Chrom and Lucina play it too safe. Again, I do like the Lords that experiment outside of the norm like Ephraim, Hector, and Micaiah.

Yeah, as I mentioned before, defending characters from a gameplay point of view is not my strong point. Almost every character I ever supported for Smash Bros. did not need gameplay arguments to convince detractors.

This time around, the characters are not blunt with what they can do. You have to be more convincing with what a character can do in order to win hearts, for showing a pretty face is not enough. This is unlike pre-Brawl where all you had to do was show a picture of Meta Knight and you'd be golden right from the start.

It's not that hard to think from the prospective of mechanics and gameplay. Just remember these things:

1. Knowledge and experience is the key.
2. Be faithful yet creative.
3. Focus on the big picture and don't trail off on the small stuff.

It might not be apparent when you first think about it, but play as several characters and you'll get the concept of how a gameplay prospective can mean a world of difference between what works and what doesn't.

I don't think Sakurai will ignore Chrom. He at the very least will seriously consider him and give him a good look. However, I could see Sakurai going to IS to tell them that Chrom does not bring much to the table in terms of a FE newcomers, and that even if they were to tell him to "cut Ike", he would bring up how there is a strong demand for Roy's return, and that cutting Ike would be met with a big backlash too even if he were to give Ike's moveset to Chrom.

The second problem Sakurai would have with Chrom is that if he includes Chrom this time, he is going to pick up far more fans, but if Chrom was excluded there would not be a negative fan reaction (however, if Chrom does get in, he is probably going to be the most weakly received FE character), and with Smash 5 he will likely have to bring back four FE swordsmen (assuming Roy is brought back in Smash 4 as well).

Sakurai being a big FE fan himself, I don't think the idea of bringing in another blue-haired swordsmen would sit well with him about what the series has to offer.

It's a bit complicated, but at the same time we don't know what will go on. All we can do is guess and hope for the best. As I said previously, Chrom/Lucina would not be wise decisions in the long run. I might be okay (albeit dull) now, but it's going to be a lot more messy later on. A better situation would be a character that can fill in something different from the normal, which in turn would lead to better reception overall. Again, something along the lines of Ephraim/Hector/Micaiah over Chrom/Lucina would generally lead to more positive reception from both the Fire Emblem fans and the casuals who don't any better. You know, showing that Fire Emblem is more then just pretty boy swordsmen.

I think the idea of Anna could sprout out of Sakurai x IS discussion about what to do with FE in terms of playable characters. I think it could be that Marth, Roy, and Ike are the only three traditional swordsmen the FE series will ever have in Smash Bros., especially considering that there will be other exotic swordsmen that will likely be brought in (Takamaru, Isaac/Shulk, possibly a decloned Ganondorf) that would make any traditional swordsmen FE newcomer seem like a bland addition.

People complain about swords, but in reality it's the swordsmen that's the bigger problem. Standing out might not seem much, but it's one way to make people want to play as these characters. If the character doesn't stand out, people won't be attracted. I can for a fact say that despite the weapon of choice, more people are optimistic for Takamaru and Shulk then Chrom. It's not exactly hard to see why. Takamaru brings a different style to the table in terms of being inspired by Japanese culture with his characteristics of samurai and ninja, while Shulk brings to the table a more modern flavor and an uber powerful weapon in the form of the Monado. All you can about Chrom is that he's an expy of Marth/Ike.

In terms of Anna, until it happens, we shouldn't get our hopes up.

Sakurai has a tendency to blindside everyone and hit us with something very few people saw coming. In terms of characters he does not really have much big players left, so who knows what he is going to do in terms of the first batch of newcomers for Smash 4.

Even among "guest" characters, aside from possibly Mega Man, there are no other third-party characters out there that are as popular or well-known as Sonic and Snake are (whom are probably the most popular non-Nintendo video game characters of all time).

Well, whatever happens we'll just have to cope with. Just remember that not every character will be revealed at once, so at first not everyone will win. But when time goes on, more stuff will pop up that it'll be a moot point in the long run. However, we don't know if there will be any surprises because of being obviously unknown.

 

[ChronoBound]

I really stress that this is going to be a team effort. I am going to need the help of all of you.

I really wish Xiivi would give me control of this entire topic instead of merely the second post. Even if I do update the second post with a whole bunch of stuff, very few people will check it out. I would also like to be able to change the topic title to reflect updates that were made to the opening post (such as "new moveset posted").

On a sidenote, I found this piece of artwork that would make Croph go gaga:
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=27641428

Upper left corner: Beta Roy
Lower left corner: Toddler Roy (appeared at the end of FE7)
Left of middle: FE13 Roy
Right of middle: FE6 Roy
Far right: Melee Roy

I am really going to try to get a proper Roy support topic up and running by the time E3 rolls around, and try to get us all to communicate with each other when it comes to various Roy support stuff.

One thing I want to do with a Roy group is foster a sense of community. This is going to be a long fight (until the release of Smash 4) so this is going to be a battle that lasts until the game's release (1.5 years).

I am going to write one long rally post before E3. After that, be prepared for war.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Hmph.

Well listen up Chrono, I'm not going to kiss Flare Boy's feet. I do not follow sides, I follow my own destiny. A drifter in this world, not taking orders from anyone and striving to survive for the sake of myself. While selfish, following what you believe is the right way is the better course of action then listening to fools. A "nation" to follow? Bah, the only nation I'm in is the nation of a bright future.

What I'm saying is that this is not a battle for Flare Boy, but rather another subject differently. GameFAQs has disgraced their name on the internet, and having the opportunity to send a shiver down their spines would be an ideal route. No mortal can handle the taste of vengeance and truth mixed together. Whatever they say will be crushed with an iron fist until there is nothing but ash. But alas, I'll have to stick around with Flare Boy for a while in order to achieve my goals. The character himself is not the most appealing character around, but the character is the lesser of two evils. While being able to do it myself might seem obvious, the task is much easier when there is numbers to back it up. You cannot fight a war by yourself, you'll need an army. This is why I'm joining this side of the war, so we can fight together towards a similar goal.

It might sound unorthodox to have a roughneck drifter on the team, but they say that the greatest allies come from the most unlikely places.

 

[ChronoBound]

It might sound unorthodox to have a roughneck drifter on the team, but they say that the greatest allies come from the most unlikely places.

I know this very well from the previous fight I had for Roy during pre-Brawl. There was someone that was merely "neutral" on Roy (he was not a supporter of him or anything, but he saw no reason as to why he should be cut). One thing that really bugged him was the Sigurd fanbase's claims (these were the ones who attacked Roy the most), and he really felt that they were making up a lot of false claims, and always badgered them for proof behind the stuff they were saying (such as Sigurd being planned for Melee/Smash 64, Sigurd being Sakurai's favorite character, Sigurd being popularly requested for Melee, etc.).

He ended up translating Sakurai's pre-Melee journal (particularly the results), the pieces of the journal that were really integral (such as Sakurai talking about who his favorite FE character was), found the official Japanese FE6 poll, and the official Japanese FE7 poll. He translated some other Japanese articles too.

This guy ended up leaving right before the Brawl roster leak was confirmed because he was extremely disappointed with the final roster (among his beefs was Lip not making it in, Sheik returning while Mewtwo and Roy got the boot which he thought was a hypocritical decision by Sakurai, that is the only two I can remember from the top of my head). He never logged back in since that day.

He single handedly eliminated the Sigurd fanbase by translating the Melee poll and journal, yet he was not even a fervent supporter of Roy. He merely thought Roy had no reason to be cut and that he should return since he was popular and well-received character.

I think you are probably more like that guy. You are more motivated by an animus towards Chrom and the legions of people at GameFAQs who worship him for whatever reason (seriously Chrom has the strongest support anywhere at GameFAQs, though all the prediction rosters at NeoGAF have Chrom on their roster) than actual support for Roy. I mean you don't think Roy should be excluded, and actually agree that he should return (and that at least he would be a better choice than Chrom/Lucina)

However, in FE, its important to remember that there are plenty of characters that don't believe in "the cause" (typically restoring a homeland) and instead fight for other motives (money, revenge against a particular enemy, etc.), but along the way sympathy grows for the cause of the lord that has employed him/her.

Cracking GameFAQs is going to be really hard, however, they are certainly beatable. There are really only two really fervent Chrom supporters there. In the face of a whole bunch of Chrom naysayers they will fold, or at the very least become much more skeptical on him as a prospective character.

However, although that is where your aim ends, I want to go beyond that and make GameFAQs a hospitable environment for Roy supporters, and have a large healthy network of supporters there.

We will see how things end up. In FE, you gain some unexpected allies and make friends out of former enemies. However, one thing is for certain there is going to be profound challenges ahead of us.

 

[Deleted member]

Not Fire Emblem music, but very fitting for the upcoming war between potential newcomers (of the ones not confirmed at E3).

However, I can say that even if you don't agree on this, Chrom is pretty much the only unjustified one. While some might say Zoroark and Pac-man are also in this bandwagon too, there are legit supporters out there that will actually put effort into arguments.

It's not that there aren't any Chrom or Pac-Man supporters that want them for who they are (I do agree that a few legitimate Pac-Man supporters exist) so much as the issue I have with is that the majority of people just support them because they feel Chrom and/or Pac-Man HAVE to be in. Pac-Man especially bothers me with his "expected but not wanted" status since I feel as people are missing the point of what makes third-parties so special; because they aren't supposed to be expected and they're suppose to be exciting. Pac-Man to most people, simply isn't. Chrom and Pac-Man's situation aren't the same, but I do feel as they're comparable.

That said, your response was fair enough, especially given that unlike Chrom, the only thing I can do is sit and wait to see if Pac-Man gets revealed at E3 and unlike with Fire Emblem, fighting against other third-parties is futile. Back to Chrom...

Well the thing to remember that sales don't automatically translates to characters. Whether something is a success or failure does not matter, what does matter is something that can come out of it. In terms of stuff like music, stages, and trophies it's not a problem, but the main characters not standing out is. Granted it's a justified reason, basically going for the more straight forward route in order to demonstrate Fire Emblem at it's core.

But I will say that Fire Emblem: Awakening does something else that's beneficial. Most Lords from past games are brought back as DLC, meaning whatever argument about being "outdated" might be a moot point this time around. I mean, if Chrom and Lucina are not up to snuff, why not go for another character that would stand out more like say Ephrahim or Micaiah? Hell, make every Fire Emblem character wear their Awakening outfits (or a derivative), and you'd already be representing Fire Emblem: Awakening enough.

Not to mention that like ChronoBound brought up before, Ike should have destroyed the sales argument, given that his game sold very poorly in Japan (lowest selling FE game) yet got in because of his character. Sales are also not correlated to fan demand. Higher sales of FE13 has not made Chrom a more popular addition than Roy of FE6, not by a large margin.

As for characters that would stand out more, it makes me wish we could get Leif (Leaf) with his Master Knight class status. It would be a dream come true for those wanting a character with an unique move set. Sadly, that day will never come...

I also noticed that you're trying to involve game play into arguing for a character. Since I mainly focus on what I feel gets a character in (importance, popularity, uniqueness (not necessarily move set potentials), being able to fit in), I don't really emphasize in game play a lot, but I do feel as we should sharpen our blades for game play arguments, especially on Smashboards (where game play is taken more seriously).

I am really going to try to get a proper Roy support topic up and running by the time E3 rolls around, and try to get us all to communicate with each other when it comes to various Roy support stuff.

One thing I want to do with a Roy group is foster a sense of community. This is going to be a long fight (until the release of Smash 4) so this is going to be a battle that lasts until the game's release (1.5 years).

I've learned that a great support topic could turn heads. I've managed to convince FalKoopa to support Mega Man despite him never playing a game thanks to my topic. The more people that read a great support topic, the more supporters that will come out of it.

Some things I would suggest adding to the topic that I've done with the Mega Man thread and I've learned this, first impression is very, very important. With some people, you only have one shot to convince them that a characters is worthy of a spot:

- The support group OP needs to stand out. Give Roy's thread a specific theme that no one else can replicate. Note that with my Mega Man thread is that not only did I make a great OP, but I also made the structure of the thread related to him. Note how my OP has cyan, has a big collection of music and how I name my supporters after Robot Master names in the supporter section. It takes more than just good contents to really impress people, you have to run with a great theme and execute it beautifully. That's why the Mega Man thread has received a big increase of posts (a noticeable plurality of the posts came after I took over the thread).

- Everyone, supporters and detractors alike, should be allowed. This may not seem like a big thing, but it is. The Roy thread is first and foremost going to be a support thread, but it is inevitable that Chrom supporters are going to come in this thread and attack the arguments for Roy. Locking the thread to just supporters would only show that we're afraid of being attacked by others when we have to prepare for the most vicious of assaults. Allowing detractors to come in and Roy supporters coming in to put in very strong arguments for Roy could very well convince people that Roy is a better choice than Chrom and speaks well of our character (that we can respectfully debate Fire Emblem characters and convince others to support Roy).

- Make a section dedicated to talking about who Roy is. This is good because surprisingly, there are going to be people who have no idea who Roy is at all. This can be a start to getting these people interested in knowing who he is and what he does. Having a section like this is also good because many people who know Roy only know him from Melee and to be able to give a well-written description on Roy in FE6 is going to have these same people impressed.

- Have some well-made move sets ready to go. Should seem obvious, but considering how few people know who Roy is outside of Melee (in relative term), solid move sets are needed in order to convince people that thanks to Roy being a clone in Melee. It would also be good that with a move set to make note of the trajectory of clones from Melee to Brawl and how that would make Roy much less of a clone than he was in Melee (and a slight chance of even being completely unique).

- Expand the group beyond that of Smashboards. Smashboards is a great starting point for the group, but if we are truly going to make impact, we have to be willing to step our foots into other places and take heat from there. I'd suggest using sites such as GameFAQs as extensions of the Smashboards group and connect them all together. One of our goals should be to unite all Roy supporters, regardless of what sites they are on and if they see fellow supporters defending Roy, they will be more willing to fight. It's why I'm extending my Mega Man group beyond Smashboards so that I can unite all Mega Man fans to defend Mega Man if he fails to show up at E3.

- Make your arguments for Roy and counterarguments against Roy count. Like I said, first impression is everything. Make sure that every important argument for and against Roy are accounted for and keep the bias transparent (while being aware that bias is inevitable). Prove everything that you say and make sure that minimal doubts on the sources are asked for (ask supporters for help on sources whenever you can't find one). The arguments needs to be as impressive as possible because one mistake can turn away a potential Roy supporter or keep a Roy supporter demoralized. It's why I haven't posted a GameFAQs variation of my Mega Man thread yet since I am working on revising my counterarguments against Mega Man (and I NEED to finish my "Capcom Hates Mega Man" counterargument since that's the main thing keeping people pessimistic about him). Hit all the notes and the tides will begin to return.

Just some of my suggestions. Also be very aware of ViewitulGene. He's even more respected than harvestmoonmike (and posts a lot more often). While not a speculator, he does argue for characters a lot and he doesn't stop until he wins his arguments. One of the characters he argues for is Chrom and he is against Roy's inclusion. With him, we have to approach a different angle; not to appeal to why Roy is more likely, but why Roy is a better choice. We also need to sharpen our blades up in regards to the importance and game play category since he doesn't take evidence of popularity very seriously (despite believing popularity is a factor in characters getting in). Sadly, considering that our evidence of popularity is in all reality, shoddy, popularity argument won't be enough to break the Chrom wagon (especially with ViewtifulGene as a supporter).