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The Louisiana Thread: Flarefox Forever - We are alive.

'V'

'V'

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ChKn said:
@Vaughn as well:

What would be your recommendation on stages and the timer? I feel like MK's presence makes it annoying to introduce new stages, unless I put two stage bans on counterpick.
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2 Stocks - 5 Minutes

I would say stages would depend on if you decide to ban MK or not. If he's banned, you can totally add a few more stages. If he's not banned, then keep the stages that there are now, but change the Ledge Grab Limit to 20.
 
Pritch

Pritch

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TaylorHJ said:
they all play brawl exclusively.

IMO brawl should be 2 stocks, PM 3 stocks, melee and 64 4 stocks. basically every game except melee lasts too long currently. this isnt a melee elitism thing, this is a TO thing. sets just cant take 20+ minutes all the time.
Click to expand...
I get most of these, but I didn't think project m took a significantly longer time than melee. Granted i haven't really spent a lot of time with project m. You wouldn't run 4 stock for that?
 
Pritch

Pritch

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Oh, also I'm off for the next 2 days and haven't been able to smash for a while. Interested in correcting that. Wouldn't necessarily be opposed to driving over to BR to hang out if people are doing anything of consequence on sunday (probably not monday though).
 
Pritch

Pritch

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Is that just because there is a larger number of viable characters that don't die at the drop of a hat like spacies do?
 
'V'

'V'

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I wouldn't be opposed to 3-stock matches for Project M.

Also, I may be investing into one of those Wii2HDMI converters so that I can play Melee and P:M on my EVO monitor. This will more than likely make it to where I'll finally be able to bring my setup to tourneys / smashfests / meetups without having too much of a hassle moving my bigass CRT everywhere.
 
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oathkeeper005

oathkeeper005

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DrinkingFood

DrinkingFood

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Anybody in shreveport/ruston need a ride to that tourney this weekend in lindale, texas?
Gunner/xkcp and others are going from shreveport, but chances are their vehicle is full.
Our car has three spots, we're driving from natty and can pick you up on the way.

also@PM discussion, recoveries definitely go farther and have more options. But so does edgeguarding. People need to get better at edgeguarding. Obviously expecting high/top melee characters to carry you with little-to-no dedicated PM practice isn't gonna do you much good.
 
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Sudai

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I agree DF, but in the mean time it makes sense to drop to 3 stocks. Just like it makes sense for the LSU tourney to drop 64 to 3/4 stock instead of 5 since no one can do the 0-deaths or shield break combos consistently. Once people get better and matches end faster is when we can up the stock count.
 
DrinkingFood

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And exactly when are we going to know that matches are ending appropriately
are we gonna like
do statistics and ****
measure time-per-stock and time-per-game and set a goal or something lol
because if there isn't some kind of solid proof that games have improved in length, peeps gonna ***** about how long they take no matter what happens
 
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Sudai

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It's not about assuaging people's complaints. It's about finishing a tourney in a reasonable amount of time. N64 took way longer than any other event did this weekend simply because games lasted so long thanks to 5 stocks and people not knowing the game too well.
 
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DrinkingFood

DrinkingFood

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I know that, the point is that you'll never have a time that you know that games are ending reasonably quick, and that you can change the rules back, unless you basically write out how long it's taking for everything to go down, and then go back and compare and decide you've reached w/e point.
 
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'V'

'V'

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I actually believe that games take longer as the skill level of players rises. I remember the Top 8 of P:M at Smashcon taking a loooooong ass time and that was with players like Taylor, Dope, Inifinity, etc.
 
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Guzzler Guzzler

Guzzler Guzzler

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There is no reason for us to continue doing a double elimination n64 tournament with the apex rule set. Changes will be made for future tournaments.

We've already had people bring up the possibility of separating games by days which would allow us to focus all our resources to one game at a time as well as allow us to do doubles tournaments.
There's also the possible solution of using less stocks for 64 due to the fact that no one (to my knowledge) who entered the 25 man tournament Saturday knew any of the intricacies of n64's metagame.
 
Sudai

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VforExtreme said:
I actually believe that games take longer as the skill level of players rises. I remember the Top 8 of P:M at Smashcon taking a loooooong *** time and that was with players like Taylor, Dope, Inifinity, etc.
Click to expand...
It's an upside down bell curve basically. Scrubs take forever, mid skill takes a good chunk less, then back up to forever for pros.

As for keeping track of when things are fast enough to bump up back to 4 stocks, you're thinking way too hard. You don't need metrics from each game, just how long the tourney takes a whole, an idea of how efficient you were, and the # of entrants.
 
smash-con

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How many setups did you have for 64? I don't see how it lasted 4 hours unless you only had like two setups. Also apex rule set is balls. Hyrule is banned but Peaches castle is a counter pick. The only people who changed there rule set was nintendude and the major area of new jersey. I respect him and have no problem with Nintendude but he has a reputation for running his tourneys with disregard for anyone else's opinion from what I've heard. When he made the announcement hyrule would be banned 85% of the community seemed to disagreed with it.​
 
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Guzzler Guzzler

Guzzler Guzzler

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smash-con said:
How many setups did you have for 64? I don't see how it lasted 4 hours unless you only had like two setups. Also apex rule set is balls. Hyrule is banned but Peaches castle is a counter pick. The only people who changed there rule set was nintendude and the major area of new jersey. I respect him and have no problem with Nintendude but he has a reputation for running his tourneys with disregard for anyone else's opinion from what I've heard. When he made the announcement hyrule would be banned 85% of the community seemed to disagreed with it.​
Click to expand...
Three set ups with who ever was playing next waiting at a setup at all times so there wasn't any time when someone wasn't using a setup until deep in the tournament.

I'm surprised to hear that about the apex ruleset, but I have honestly never really kept up with N64 at all. Basically all I know about N64 is: lots of hit stun, and Isai is good.
 
RuslinJimmies

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Smashcon top 8 took for even because some of the players, if not all were being called for other games.

I'm going to reference a match Taylor and Drinking food had at tha jumbo shrimp. Rob consistently lived up to 140% and higher. Rob is floaty and heavy. Dopes D3 lived a **** long time because of the same thing. Characters with tethers are generally lighter and die much sooner, spacies still get Edgeguarded easily, and there are still these things called combos.

That being said I can recall two instances where Taylor ken combo'd the **** out of drinking foods rob and rob lived because of his recovery. That's More Taylor's fault than rob being broken. Two things about robs recovery, when he's low he can't fake you out. He's going up/ forward. From that depth grabbing ledge = stock taken or ledge hop dair = stock taken.
Now compare this to light shielding Marths up b in melee for the free edgehog/ landing punish. If only like half the people at a tournament do it, is that reason enough to drop melee stocks to 3?
I completely understand it's about running smooth events, but if the two of the relevant problems are heavy characters living too long or missed edgeguards, it's not a problem at all
 
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Turazrok

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Light shield on marth isn't 100% there are ways around it. As opposed to tether recoveries being god tier amazing
 
'V'

'V'

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Ahh I see. I didn't see the Melee mention from RJ's post. I don't remember anyone mentioning anything about a stock change for Melee, though. Melee seems to be the only game where everyone's content with the number of stocks.
 
RuslinJimmies

RuslinJimmies

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Tether Edgeguard:

Hold ledge, they automatically ledge jump, punish.
If they hang there waiting for you to let either assume stage control and reset the situation to a normal Edgeguard or drop down and attack.

Either way I was saying the most recent examples of matches in our community lasting forever involved D3 and/or rob. Floaty characters that are harder to combo and they are heavy. Sure Sudai and I have ivy but I'm a fraud and he got exposed by a charizard.

I think if people learned the mu's with buffed characters as opposed to saying "this character has a good matchup with fox, therefore it's broken" pm could go quicker.

Also someone move to Alexandria. I play teams with the CPU at 2am :-(
 
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Turazrok

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If you don't think tether recoveries are strong you don't know what you're talking about.
 
RuslinJimmies

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I main ivy. I know the negative side of tether. You can't make that statement and ignore the flow chart tether Edgeguard I just stated. Yes they are good but you make it sound like you might as well forfeit if you are facing tether recoveries. If we people that play brawl can put up with mk you can put up with tether

What characters tethers do you have the most problem with? I mean link has a tether but his bomb pull jumps are way worse
 
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RuslinJimmies

RuslinJimmies

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Only ivy and zero suit Samus have godlike tethers in term of length. Both are light and can be ko'd at lower percentage. Link has INFINITE ****ing jumps and we are complaining about lightweight characters having good recovery

*aerial glide tossing isn't infinite jumps but on a stage with wide boundaries it may as well be
 
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Bomber7

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Link is in bottom tier and no one says a thing. He becomes a good character and everyone loses their minds.
 
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