The knee storm (falcon's variation on ganon's thunderstorm) +vid

[Darxmarth23]

No need for that. It is now back on topic.
(The discussion was also on topic, but it escalated, now it is back on topic)

Yes.

D-airs combo ability is good. I bet in an ISP tourney this would be really usefull.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Well, I've seen people do a psuedo thunderstorm, as long as they bounce and not tech, to a knee or uair.

Like, as in continually dairing them until they bounce too high up.

 

[_clinton]

This stuff is epic...

 

[Wogrim]

Post storming?

We need these little things. I see where knee is going with this. The only thing i don't like is the flubbed knee part. I would go with jab, like wogrim.

Its not completley useless.

Stop the bickering jeez.

Just because something isn't a "true combo" doesn't mean it makes for a good move string. You can very well do this once, and the next time they see it mix it up with something stronger and predict an airdodge or ground dodge or shield and punish. There aren't alot of true combos in brawl, you need to think "Good move strings" instead of "inescapable combos"

On another hand, I think jab would be better than flub knee, more possibilities... Though you could get a trip on a fast faller if they land at low percents from flub and lead it to jab > grab

I think my post may have been misinterpreted. I was suggesting DAir -> Flub Knee -> Jab combo, not DAir -> Jab combo. Landing close enough for a Jab combo out of DAir means you have to give up the safety of landing far away with the DAir (under the case that it doesn't land).

...
the funny thing about this post
is that the arrow actually pointed to my door in my house


so i went and got a snack

Points to my fridge; time for beer.

 

[Ne Derceh]

Said 'certain percent' is quite a wide range of percent.

For combo ability, it is not.

This is NOT good -_- Why does everyone worship TKONTK?

Ville is right, this is so ridiculously impractical...The only way I can imagine this MAYBE working is if you've been so much on the offensive that your opponent is completely overwhelmed (effectively giving up).

Or if your opponent is imaginary.

Props, I guess for the second part, even though it's not even remotely new or even that difficult.

</downer>

P.S. Lame name is lame

Dam right.

*facepalm*
No one worships me, and AGAIN the Dair has combo ability.
seriously, you should all lrn2Dair.

I'm afraid some people do still worship you, or rather, I won't say worship, I'll say follow. Notce Darxmarth23. Bet he hasnt even tried it or thought about it.

I said it is escapable at most percents, I said everything in the OP.
So plz gtfo.

Lol escapable at most percents.

PS: I never claimed it was new or difficult.

Ok, he never claimed you did, he was simply stating that. Typically though, people dont bring up old threads that have been done before.

And I didn't ask about your opinion about the name. It is called that, deal with it.

Oh shut up man. If its a **** name as people have said, dont use it.

Cmon knee, knee storm is just stupid

you only KNEE once...

but yeah.. this is completely useless.

not saying you should have posted
just letting you know its 0% effective in tournament play

i still love it though ,it looks sexy <3

Yes, not effective against good opponents in other words.

Player-3..

Due to the Dair's comboability this is actually quite useful.
One can use this once (maybe even twice) around the percent the Dair combo's into a sweet knee, to set up a Dair>sweet knee.

Ok, but its so predictable and easy to dodge, it wont.

And again, fastfallers/heavyweights have a harder time getting out of this.

In short, this can setup a Dair>sweet knee quite nicely.
And as said combo is a kill combo, this is not useless.

You cannot say thsi is useful because D-air to Knee is a good kill combo, because you probaly wont land it against a good opponent.

and ehm player 3..this is not stupid, and can be effective in tournament play.

Really? and where does this knowledge of tournament play come from? Exactly, you dont go to offline tournaments.

Dair>flub knee = combo
Dair>sweet knee = combo

The only time they could escape during a well performed knee storm is between the flub knee and the Dair.

Wich is harder for heavyweights/fastfallers.

When you happen to catch an opponent with your Dair,

lol

and they do not have enough percent to get KO'd by a sweet knee, use a flubbed one.
Then follow up with another Dair, and you can then use (a possibly KO'ing) sweet knee.

omg, that string is so unreliable it hurts.

It isn't a large window in wich they can escape, so this is not useless. and this is not stupid.
You couldve figured this out yourself. or at least lrn2read before you make such statements.

lrn2read? It looks like he can read fine, sir.

lrn2brawl.

What gives YOU the right to say that? That does not make your argument any more valid, its just meant to make him feel small, when in fact, hes the one that ges to tourneys and knows what will or wont work.

According to your logic nothing can hit your opponent. Newsflash: sometimes movestrings DO connect. Even on the 'people who know what they're doing' (who you are overrating atm)

Omg. You tell hi to learn to read, and yet you do this? HE NEVER ONCE SAID NOTHING CAN HIT AN OPPONENT, HE SAID THAT YOUR CRAPPY TACTIC WONT. Jesus man.

The window in wich they can escape is small, so the chance they dont escape is quite present.

Now just accept the fact this is way more usefull than you thought it was.
so, lrn2read.

Knee, I honestly think youv turned int a huge douche. Saying "just accept the fact that my argument is right, and l2r does not make your argument any more valid.

Bad TKONTK *whacks with newspaper*

He has his point and you have yours, discuss this civilly!

Precisely, stop being an ******* Knee.

*facepalm*
Your state of mind is what keeps falcon's metagame from developing.

No, his is a correct state of mind. Be skeptical of bad tactics. YOURS is what stops it developing, all this **** about true combos and crappy copy tactics.

'Omgzz its not 100% inescapablezz'

well this aint melee. And this **** is alot better than things like raptor boost>up b.

Even though he said neither of those things.

Deal with it.

Deal with what? I'll say it again, statements like this dont make your argument invalid.

AKA heavyweight, wich = fatty.

um, lol? Are you joking? It seems sir, that you should l2Brawl, rather than p3.

Just admit you are wrong.
It is escapable, but still sensible as the window in wich one can get out of a well performed knee storm is small.

And it racks up damage nicely, and can KO.
/discussion.

Why /discussion? Because you have made your point and you think it should be the end all be all? Jesus man, I can say that racks up damage nicely about any tactic, or whatever **** you said. Fact is, there are far better things to do.

*facepalm*

you are missing the point.

The state of mind that keeps falcon's metagame from developing is only using true combo's.
This ain't melee. You should've figured that out by now.

Shut up. He didnt say, only use true combos, and he didnt say this was melee. I think he meant that this was a bad tactic because it is bad rater than not comboing. Get over yourself and realise that not everything you use/"figuire out" is good.

If you call that flaming, lrn2interwebz

Oh my. If you dont call that falming, simply learn.

also, I have provided enough proof and reasoning for that it indeed DOES work.
again, lrn2read.

No, not really tbh. You say things like, it sets up for D-air to Knee nicely, and havent elaborated on that at all. When in fact, jumping around spamming the two moves mindlessly sets you up to be punished.

You said its good for dealing damage, which is untrue, because its not lol. Maybe back up your arguments.

And you are the one using offstage aerial falcon kicks >_>

Sound the hypocrite alarms!

What a stupd thing to say, when he wasnt being hypocritical in the examples you quoted.

Those of you who don't think this is a good idea you can end this quietly by just butting out. Those of you who are up for this should stay.

Man,

I
NEED
TO
BE
A
MOD!!!!

So really, your not up for debate at all, you just want the idiots who follow Knee, youself and Knee to talk about how great this is.

Shut the hell up man, you would be an awful mod. i mean, look at what you just said. And I bet the infractions would be those that disagree with Knee, and I bet Knee wouldnt get any.

You really, really tick me off. I could flame your *** and burn you so hard you would go cryng to your mother. But you just aren't worth it. Besides, if you get banned you'll come back with your other account.

Lol, you seem to think clever people will be sad if someone flames them.

The falcon boards are getting screwed up. Big time.

Oh shut up man.

**** you are a pain.

I have given enough reasoning behind what I said.
and newsflash: bad DI happens in tourny matches too. and missed roll possibilities too.

dude, I quote myself (from one post before this one for gods sake, Player-3 LRN2READ):

Even at the highest level of play people are still people.
Even at the highest level of play this can be used in a succesfull way.
Even at the highest level of play people miss techs.

You are an idiot for denying the facts and overrating the 'best' players.

You, are an idiot for thinking this is good. If you spam SH D-air and knees, people ill learn to shield grab them or just plain punish you. Yes people make mistakes, but simply put:

"There are better tactics, why not use them"

*facepalm*
No, scrubs should lrn2brawl before they post/take part in a serious brawl related discussion.
-----> there's the door.
Goodbye ^_^

I'm getting sick of what these boards have become.

Man. twas a good night.

Again, if anyone of you don't like this tactic, kindly butt out so i don't have to flame your ***es for spam.

**** off draxmarth you idiot, as if you have any impact at all. I bet your some stupid little 14 year old kid who doesnt even go to tournaments and is an awful player.

Knee, I'm sick of how horribly cocky you are and how much of a douche you are in civilised debate. l2read, l2brawl, gtfo, scrub, theres the door etc etc. WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO SAY THAT? Simply flaming people to make you feel big.Notice the people who disagree with you GO TO TOURNAMENTS. They will have a better idea of what works or doesnt work in a tournament than you do, and the sooner you accept that the better.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

o_o the person above me.

 

[eRonin]

@_@ the person above Skip2MaLoo

well I think everyone should calm down, for a start...otherwise I think there's not much point in discussing this further other than if someone actually attempts this at a tournament to see if it's a feasible technique...

 

[Zeallyx]

*Facepalm*
Ne Derceh, you really are wrong.
I have given enough proof and reasoining behind what I said, and said reasoning is not countered by you at all.
You only agreed with Player-3 without a reason, or for the simple fact you seem to have something against me.

As you may not have understood, the window in wich one can get out of a well performed knee storm is small. You can't deny this.

Also, what makes you guys think I actually care what you think about the name I made up? Seriously. It is called this way, just deal with it.

Ne derceh, last time you actually had somewhat of a point, but this time, I had enough reasoning behind what I said, and you have said nothing to counter said reasoning.

And the fact player-3 goes to tournaments doesn't make his side of the arguement more true, as he is, infact, wrong.

Like mentioned, psuedo thunderstorms are also used.

And this isn't really a civilized debate, as you and player-3 simply ignore the reasoning I provided.

 

[Ne Derceh]

*Facepalm*


Ne Derceh, you really are wrong.
I have given enough proof and reasoining behind what I said, and said reasoning is not countered by you at all.

OMG! I am actualy in awe as to how you can be so silly and hypocritical. Please, READ MY POST. I very much countered the majority of points you provided with my own, whch you fail to reply to now. You tell P3 to l2r, perhaps you should pursue such a goal youself.

You only agreed with Player-3 without a reason, or for the simple fact you seem to have something against me.

Really Knee, open yourself up. No, god forbid someone would disagree with this out of their own will, it is so good, there must be another reason.

As you may not have understood, the window in wich one can get out of a well performed knee storm is small. You can't deny this.

Oh lol, I'm afraid I can. Its called DI sir, and its also called air dodging/attacking. You must also realise that the D-air > knee combo requires very precise percents. Its barely a 10% window.

Also, what makes you guys think I actually care what you think about the name I made up? Seriously. It is called this way, just deal with it.

Ne derceh, last time you actually had somewhat of a point, but this time, I had enough reasoning behind what I said, and you have said nothing to counter said reasoning.

Again, I shall direct you to my post above, as it contains counters in it.

And the fact player-3 goes to tournaments doesn't make his side of the arguement more true, as he is, infact, wrong.

Well, I know this may sound ridiculous to someone as stupid as yourself, but in an argument about whether something will work in a tournament or not, I'm going to agree with the people that go to tournaments. I belive Winnar ans Ville also go to tournaments and disagreed with you.

Like mentioned, psuedo thunderstorms are also used.

But a small hitbox and low priority means it is no where near as effective.

And this isn't really a civilized debate, as you and player-3 simply ignore the reasoning I provided.

Even though i made a post bigger than your level of stupidity adressing all of your points. Nice work ignoring my post.

Sir, I am going to ask you to read my post again, as you seem to have somehow missed that I countered many, many of your points. Please, for the sake of tidiness, list points as to why this is a good tactic that wont apply to anything else, because I fail to see how mindless spam of two mediocre attacks that barely combos is better than u-air B-airs single hit N-airs jabs etc etc.

 

[Zeallyx]

Sir, I am going to ask you to read my post again, as you seem to have somehow missed that I countered many, many of your points. Please, for the sake of tidiness, list points as to why this is a good tactic that wont apply to anything else, because I fail to see how mindless spam of two mediocre attacks that barely combos is better than u-air B-airs single hit N-airs jabs etc etc.

As you seem to have resorted to talking to me in a normal way, I will talk to you in a normal way from now on too.

You must understand that almost nothing in brawl is absolute, in the sense that not many things are inescapable.

I never said that this technique is better than Single hit Nair, jabs, Bairs and Uairs, but these things you listed are also not absolete.

This technique is not spamming the moves, I will explain it:

the technique is:

SH Dair>SH flub knee>SH Dair>SH sweet knee

If performed well, the only time the opponent can escape is between the flub knee and the Dair. This windo in wich they can escape is quite small, wich makes this technique not absolete, but better than many other setups/moves falcon has to offer.

As falcon does not have good approaches, and an overall lacking moveset (read: as he is bottom of bottom tier), we need things like this, who are not absolete, but better than most other setups/moves falcon has to offer.

The reason I told player-3 his mindset is the mindset wich keeps falcon from developing, is because he was implying this is useless because it is not 100% inescapable, wich, like mentioned before, is rare in brawl and is not a reason to cast aside a technique as 'useless'.

The reason I flamed player-3 is because of a discussion I had with him before this thread was even made. I apologize to player-3.

I must say you told me I had no right to flame, and then you resorted to flaming yourself.
I am not certain if your intention was to talk to me in a normal manner, as you may have been trying to talk down to me with your previous post, but I am no longer going to flame you, nor anyone else.

We can discuss this in the way mentioned we should: in a civilized manner.

 

[Player-3]

The reason I flamed player-3 is because of a discussion I had with him before this thread was even made. I apologize to player-3

<3
i was actually trying to discuss when... things started getting flamey.....



@derceh that is the single longest **** post i have ever seen on SWF, i mean it took like 10 minutes to scroll past it

(and i was like O.O when i logged on.. i had 5 notifications
back to 5/6 infraction points :\)

 

[Darxmarth23]

Can we just end this with no hard feelings to anyone PLEASE?

I guess i should also apologize to player 3. I got flamey too. Sorry.

I'm getting sick of what i see as crap on these boards.

If you don't like the technique then don't use it. If you do then you should.

My efforts to clean these boards up has been an utter failure.

I'm going back as a marth boards regular.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Can we just end this with no hard feelings to anyone PLEASE?

I guess i should also apologize to player 3. I got flamey too. Sorry.

I'm getting sick of what i see as crap on these boards.

If you don't like the technique then don't use it. If you do then you should.

My efforts to clean these boards up has been an utter failure.

I'm going back as a marth boards regular.

the bolded sounds very familiar.

 

[Player-3]

Can we just end this with no hard feelings to anyone PLEASE?

I guess i should also apologize to player 3. I got flamey too. Sorry.

I'm getting sick of what i see as crap on these boards.

If you don't like the technique then don't use it. If you do then you should.

My efforts to clean these boards up has been an utter failure.

I'm going back as a marth boards regular.

yarr.

i was just trying to get people to understand that this will not net you a kill every time, and you will most likely be punished for it

and you guys got all pissy and stuck me in a oven

 

[Ne Derceh]

As you seem to have resorted to talking to me in a normal way, I will talk to you in a normal way from now on too.

You must understand that almost nothing in brawl is absolute, in the sense that not many things are inescapable.

True. I do understand such a statement, and I have the whole time.

I never said that this technique is better than Single hit Nair, jabs, Bairs and Uairs, but these things you listed are also not absolete.

Yes, but I would consider attacks like that, long range, good priority, speed and ac ability to be more safe and just generally better than the technique in discussion.

This technique is not spamming the moves, I will explain it:

the technique is:

SH Dair>SH flub knee>SH Dair>SH sweet knee

If performed well, the only time the opponent can escape is between the flub knee and the Dair. This windo in wich they can escape is quite small, wich makes this technique not absolete, but better than many other setups/moves falcon has to offer.

Right, so are you saying that this is a string as opposed to a tactic? If that is the case then, I don think there are better options. Dair to Knee is an absolute thing of its own, DI'able and not too difficult to get out of, but if there is an opening for a Dair then sure its a good idea. But linking them together? No chance. I guarantee you, the opponent will shield. Why not simpy go into a jab.

As falcon does not have good approaches, and an overall lacking moveset (read: as he is bottom of bottom tier), we need things like this, who are not absolete, but better than most other setups/moves falcon has to offer.

Are you suggesting this should be used as an approach?

The reason I told player-3 his mindset is the mindset wich keeps falcon from developing, is because he was implying this is useless because it is not 100% inescapable, wich, like mentioned before, is rare in brawl and is not a reason to cast aside a technique as 'useless'.

I'm afraid it looked a lot more like he was saying we shouldnt do it because it wasnt good.

The reason I flamed player-3 is because of a discussion I had with him before this thread was even made. I apologize to player-3.

Why though? Forget old threads. And please link me to this other thread. He was always courtious and yet every time there was some put down comment like l2something or facepalm, as if his ideas were completely ridiculous. One other thing, not specific words but your style of writing and speaking, you say "You must realise" or "you need to understand" or summin like that. It is a very close minded way to speak, as if he does not understand basic facts or that you are very unopen to other peoples views. No offense, just a heads up if you want to keep calm discussion. One INCREDIBLY annoying thing is saying "Its people ike you that are messing up these boards/preventing Falcon from advancing" or w/e you say, because thats like its their fault we cant get on because he is debating with you. Again, just aheads up for keeping flames out.

I must say you told me I had no right to flame, and then you resorted to flaming yourself.
I am not certain if your intention was to talk to me in a normal manner, as you may have been trying to talk down to me with your previous post, but I am no longer going to flame you, nor anyone else.

I did not intend to speak to you politely after the way you spoke to P3. He was speaking to you politely and you were being a douche. Speaking down to him like he was 4 and didnt understand the game at all, yet he replied to you civily.

We can discuss this in the way mentioned we should: in a civilized manner.

Bold coments

Can we just end this with no hard feelings to anyone PLEASE?

I guess i should also apologize to player 3. I got flamey too. Sorry.

I'm getting sick of what i see as crap on these boards.

Oh shut up man. Acting like these boards are all awful and the Marth boards are the place of the gods. I really think its not your place at all to do anything for these boards. You havemt proved yourself a good player and havent discovered anything for Falcon. In the same mentality you have to this thread, if you like the boards, stay and discuss, if you dont, leave.

If you don't like the technique then don't use it. If you do then you should.

My efforts to clean these boards up has been an utter failure.

I'm afraid tbh, I see no reason for you to have the mindset that you were "cleaning these boards". They seemed fine. Debate is fine. Knee's manner of speaking however, was not fine, and it created an argument. Thats done now thought.

I'm going back as a marth boards regular.

OH NOES!


sorry. I just care so little.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Well. On topic, I still think it's better to get the body to bounce by using rapid dairs if you just time it right. more punishable and less inescapable. The timing is just harder.

 

[Zeallyx]

Bold coments

Here is a link to the thread in wich Player-3 had said discussion: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222290

I agree I went overboard, and I apologize.

And I am not saying to use this as an approach, well, Using the SH Dair as an approach is quite common, and this can be used (at certain percents) after said Dair.

You must understand that something like this, with such a small window in wich the opponent can escape, that sets up for something absolete like the Dair>sweet knee (kill) combo, is not 'useless'.

And shielding this is not as easy as you make it out to be. I have tested this, and it has a notable success rate. I do agree, with you and player-3, that it will not work 100% of the time.
As it won't. As it is escapable between the flub knee and the Dair, people will get out of it.
But that does not take away the fact that this is something that still can, and will work.

 

[Darxmarth23]

yarr.

i was just trying to get people to understand that this will not net you a kill every time, and you will most likely be punished for it

and you guys got all pissy and stuck me in a oven

I said i'm sorry. No hard feelings okay?

OH NOES!


sorry. I just care so little.

You constantly are proving yourself that you are and ***. I'm just trying to end this with peace. And yeah i do think the marth boards are better than the falcon boards. And i know stuff. All falcon boards regulars know that i know. Not as much as wogrim, face, or knee, but i know enough nonetheless. I thought i would do good to the boards, to make them a bit more organized, but people like you keep shutting me out.

Calm down.

 

[Ayaz18]

so initially I wanted to let this thread die and not respond and rant about how impractical this technique is, but since everyone here has joined the flame war I guess I have no choice.

This tech is VERY situational, you can "scare" your opponents by doing this........but that's about it. I don't want to list all the ways why it isn't a good tech at all but others have already listed them.

P.S anything from the Ganon boards suck

 

[:034:]

Credit to the person who discovered thunderstorming for its name, and for inspiring this technique.

Awwww yeah

 

[Ayaz18]

That means you too ^^^

 

[Ne Derceh]

You constantly are proving yourself that you are and ***. I'm just trying to end this with peace. And yeah i do think the marth boards are better than the falcon boards. And i know stuff. All falcon boards regulars know that i know. Not as much as wogrim, face, or knee, but i know enough nonetheless. I thought i would do good to the boards, to make them a bit more organized, but people like you keep shutting me out.

Lol. Keep shutting you out. Maybe stop then hmmmm? Saying that people like me are shutting you out, I mean, what does that mean? You mad a critique thread that failed and a testing grounds thread that was stupid, I dont believe that was anyone like me's fault. Stop trying to blame me silly, you have only yourself to blame for your failure.

What do you know. I've never seen you say anything intelligent about Falcon, all I have seen you do is **** about the Marth boards or agree withy others.

Calm down.

Here is a link to the thread in wich Player-3 had said discussion: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222290

I agree I went overboard, and I apologize.

And I am not saying to use this as an approach, well, Using the SH Dair as an approach is quite common, and this can be used (at certain percents) after said Dair.

You must understand that something like this, with such a small window in wich the opponent can escape, that sets up for something absolete like the Dair>sweet knee (kill) combo, is not 'useless'.

Small window to escape? Its like a, what, 10% window when they cant.

And shielding this is not as easy as you make it out to be. I have tested this, and it has a notable success rate.

I do not believe you. I think that is a lie, or that it was crappy opponents that failed to get out of it.

I do agree, with you and player-3, that it will not work 100% of the time.
As it won't. As it is escapable between the flub knee and the Dair, people will get out of it.
But that does not take away the fact that this is something that still can, and will work.

Perhaps it will work, but why not do something that has much more chance?

As it is escapable between the flub knee and the Dair, people will get out of it.

But that does not take away the fact that this is something that still can, and will work.

Bolded comment. Please dont type in red Knee, its hard on the eyes and its difficult to see my bolded comments. Plain old white like anyone else would do.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

This thread should be locked.

 

[Virgilijus]

Well, this thread is just turning into a flame war. Thinks it's time to close.