The Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town, Shantae for SSB4 (WayForward wants her in Smash)

[DoctorSanity]

Can we get ONE female DLC character?

PLEASE???

 

[TheRickyWill]

Can we get ONE female DLC character?

PLEASE???

Like I said

Namco's Valkyrie

Sakurai loves putting Japan-only characters in Smash so why not

Seriously, though: Shantae's tied with Krystal for the female character people want most, but Shantae has the upper hand of being more relevant and a protagonist, and you'd think that nowadays, where your game development team puts the spotlight on a female hero or your company is Satan, people would be all over Shantae being in Smash, but uh, guess notz

 

[SL the Pyro]

I made yet another long-winded defense comment, this time on that one Nintendo News page on the reddit poll:

Some Jerk says:
August 26, 2015 at 4:06 pm

It honestly saddens me that all of the anti-Shantae posts here solely consist of either “Screw Shantae, she’s not first-party.”, or “Screw Shantae, give me __________ instead.” Seriously, it gets annoying to see after the 100th time whether you’re a supporter or not. If you’re going to rally against a character, at least make a good argument about it BEFORE tainting it with original sin! You’re not being smart, you’re just being that one annoying kid who pokes people with a stick.

The facts as they are now is that Shantae is continuing to gain popularity almost akin to a Cinderella Story. Her publicity has been gradually growing in the West, there’s enough growth in the East that she’s no longer irrelevant there, and it’s been like this since the Fighter Ballot opened and will probably continue until it closes. If a character can accumulate and maintain this level of fanbase volume and vocality for this length of time, then maybe you should reevaluate her chances from “snowball in hell”.

As for what Shantae would contribute to Smash, she has all the hallmarks of a roster fighter: decent-sized series, acceptable fanbase, history with Nintendo, diverse and workable skillset, cool locations, awesome music, etc. That’s not to say some other third-parties and indies don’t, but they’re beset with their own issues (Shovel Knight being a “flavor of the month/year”, Cave Story no longer being popular, Banjo & Kazooie being owned by Microsoft, Bayonetta being too risque, and so on). That’s also not to say Shantae herself doesn’t have any issues; hers is obscurity, but as stated above this has gradually been turning around, largely in part of the Fighter Ballot. If I were asked if Shantae was a third-party/indie frontrunner, I would reply with a yes.

Side note: I don’t agree with the redditor’s reasons for leaving K. Rool, Waluigi and the Inklings out of his poll, but I do like it from a “Who would you vote for if these guys WEREN’T on the list?” standpoint.

 

[TheRickyWill]

I made yet another long-winded defense comment, this time on that one Nintendo News page on the reddit poll:

Shantae really does have more of a history with Nintendo more than other 3rd party characters in the ballot.

If anything, the only character on the roster who's most deserving, based on the length of history with Nintendo systems, is Mega Man, yes, I'm counting the sub-series like X, too.

Shantae's been pretty Nintendo-dedicated, even compared to characters like Banjo & Kazooie.
>Release dates between BK and Grunty's Revenge: 6 years
>Release years between Shantae GBC and Pirate's Curse: 13 years.

Heck, the only time Shantae went multi-platform before the recent PC releases was the mobile version of Risky's Revenge, and even then, the gap is 8 years, which is still longer, and do I even need to bring up how obsessed Nintendo Power was with Wayforward, and Shantae's cameo in WarioWare DIY?

 

[Children0fTheStars]

I haven't read every article on the matter yet, but given the vague "information" (if you can even call it that; they sound more like rumors) I'm tempted to think that this is only thanks to the obviously faked Shovel Knight Amiibo that was talked about recently.

But then again it's a little unsettling when we consider the timing of the articles, with the events starting Thursday night. Honestly though, I would really want a good justification for why they'd pick the new indie guy that just came out over a rep that seems about equal in popularity (at the least) and has had a far longer history with Nintendo.

 

[TheRickyWill]

I haven't read every article on the matter yet, but given the vague "information" (if you can even call it that; they sound more like rumors) I'm tempted to think that this is only thanks to the obviously faked Shovel Knight Amiibo that was talked about recently.

But then again it's a little unsettling when we consider the timing of the articles, with the events starting Thursday night.

It's probably to spread controversy and have everyone dissapointed at the event when it's false.

Or a Mii costume.

Both will do the same thing.

 

[Black-magic13]

If shovel knight does get in I won't even lie I'll be mad. He doesn't do anything besides... Hit and stab with a shovel. Shantae does s*** loads more . I hope this rumor isn't true. Also like @ DoctorSanity seriously sakurai the game is a flipping sausage fest. Let's get some freaking females in this man. (PS I'm not one of those people who think game characters are hot, I just feel that the number difference from male to female is rediculous. Sakurai really should add more females.

 

[TheRickyWill]

If shovel knight does get in I won't even lie I'll be mad. He doesn't do anything besides... Hit and stab with a shovel. Shantae does s*** loads more . I hope this rumor isn't true. Also like @ DoctorSanity seriously sakurai the game is a flipping sausage fest. Let's get some freaking females in this man. (PS I'm not one of those people who think game characters are hot, I just feel that the number difference from male to female is rediculous. Sakurai really should add more females.

Especially considering that Samus has been the only female protagonist in Smash Bros through the entire series.

 

[-crump-]

If shovel knight does get in I won't even lie I'll be mad. He doesn't do anything besides... Hit and stab with a shovel.

Not true at all. He has several weapons and special techniques he could use in Smash. Saying all Shovel Knight can do is "hit and stab with a shovel", is like saying all Shantae can do is "hit people with her hair and dance".

Not an active Shovel Knight supporter, nor a Shantae supporter. Just clearing your misconception of the character. You still have every right to be upset, though.

 

[Captain Fun]

If shovel knight does get in I won't even lie I'll be mad. He doesn't do anything besides... Hit and stab with a shovel. .

This is false. He has a ton of magic relics and techniques. You've clearly never played the game though.

Honestly, don't get so bitter over a rumor.

 

[TheRickyWill]

Not true at all. He has several weapons and special techniques he could use in Smash. Saying all Shovel Knight can do is "hit and stab with a shovel", is like saying all Shantae can do is "hit people with her hair and dance".

Not an active Shovel Knight supporter, nor a Shantae supporter. Just clearing your misconception of the character. You still have every right to be upset, though.

I guess I'm one of the few who knows Shovel Knight can take advantage of his other gear.

Even then, the game does still feel a bit... bland, compared to all the other Kickstarter games.

 

[Children0fTheStars]

He might do a little more than that, true, but it's pretty hard to dispute that Shovel Knight is a much less interesting character than her. Really, he's hardly even a character at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3ih3cw/is_shovel_knight_coming_to_super_smash_bros/

Guh. Mark my words, because it's Reddit I.E. Circlejerking: The Website, this is going to wind up with a sizable amount of upvotes whereas anyone that says the name "Shantae" is ostracized right away.

But what caught my eye was that Tamaki was brought up. Didn't someone say he wasn't really in a position to be obtaining information?

 

[Black-magic13]

Not true at all. He has several weapons and special techniques he could use in Smash. Saying all Shovel Knight can do is "hit and stab with a shovel", is like saying all Shantae can do is "hit people with her hair and dance".

Not an active Shovel Knight supporter, nor a Shantae supporter. Just clearing your misconception of the character. You still have every right to be upset, though.

This is false. He has a ton of magic relics and techniques. You've clearly never played the game though.

Honestly, don't get so bitter over a rumor.

I do apologize about that. I seen videos, maybe the player was bad or something but the person doing the video didn't do him justice. All she showed him do was hit enemies with the shovel.

 

[TheRickyWill]

It's pretty hard to dispute that Shovel Knight is a much less interesting character than her, though. Really, he's hardly even a character at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3ih3cw/is_shovel_knight_coming_to_super_smash_bros/

Guh. Mark my words, because it's Reddit I.E. Circlejerking: The Website, this is going to wind up with a sizable amount of upvotes whereas anyone that says the name "Shantae" is ostracized right away.

But what caught my eye was that Tamaki was brought up. Didn't someone say he wasn't really in a position to be obtaining information currently?

The only reason Shovel Knight will get some relevance again is the upcoming DLC, kinda like FNAF 4.

However. Half-Genie Hero has multiple stories and technically 8 playable characters, so who needs DLC amiright

 

[Children0fTheStars]

So Tamaki has a video posted on his Twitter. I didn't watch the whole thing, but suffice it to say his tone was basically, "Yeah, this rumor's credible, but I can't tell you any of my sources, but just trust me."

I don't know what to think. I just can't get my head around the idea that Shovel Knight, currently a one-hit-wonder that turned into a fad following after its success, getting in before Shantae when she has so many more things going for her. It doesn't add up.

 

[Deleted member]

Shovel Knight's plenty of a character and has plenty in store for a potential moveset. His olde English personality really does come through with the dialogue he has with all the various bosses in his game.

Mind you, I'm not hoping for his inclusion myself, but I'd understand why he'd be a plausible choice, even next to what Shantae has to offer.

 

[TheRickyWill]

Shovel Knight's plenty of a character and has plenty in store for a potential moveset. His olde English personality really does come through with the dialogue he has with all the various bosses in his game.

Mind you, I'm not hoping for his inclusion myself, but I'd understand why he'd be a plausible choice, even next to what Shantae has to offer.

Shovel Knight and Layton will certainly be the most gentlemanly characters on the roster.

Heck, Shovel Knight had somewhat of a simple time trying to speak with the stuck-in-the-90's Battletoads.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Realistically I doubt both Shantae and Shovel Knight. I support them both but I think that a character from a big triple A publisher in Japan is more likely than western studios of varying independance

I'm curious what your reasons are for thinking so. Any chance you could elaborate?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm curious what your reasons are for thinking so. Any chance you could elaborate?

Simple matter of ease of negotiation. This applies for for Shovel Knight than our Genie gal but it still applies. Shantae hasn't had many/any (I keep getting conflicting reports) Japanese releases so Wayforward doesn't have that strong a Japanese base and I'm not sure they'll have dedicated team memebers dealing with Japanese stuff.

Shovel Knight are a small indie dev so any problems WF have will be multiplied for them.

Begs the question, who'd pay for translators? The indies or Nintendo?

I'd love to be wrong though.

 

[TheRickyWill]

Simple matter of ease of negotiation. This applies for for Shovel Knight than our Genie gal but it still applies. Shantae hasn't had many/any (I keep getting conflicting reports) Japanese releases so Wayforward doesn't have that strong a Japanese base and I'm not sure they'll have dedicated team memebers dealing with Japanese stuff.

Shovel Knight are a small indie dev so any problems WF have will be multiplied for them.

Begs the question, who'd pay for translators? The indies or Nintendo?

I'd love to be wrong though.

Oh, right. I forgot Wayforward had a team in Japan.

I think that they got Mighty Switch Force localized there... So why haven't they done that for the whole Shantae series yet?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Oh, right. I forgot Wayforward had a team in Japan.

I think that they got Mighty Switch Force localized there... So why haven't they done that for the whole Shantae series yet?

They do? Sweet. Well that elevates them above SK then.

 

[TheRickyWill]

They do? Sweet. Well that elevates them above SK then.

I think.

It was published by "Intergrow" in Japan.

The WiiWare title LIT, also made by Wayforward, was released in Japan.

I think the fact that Wayforward has worked with Inti Creates has to add something about their relevance in Japan, too.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Anyone remember this poll aggregation?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

I posted it in here a while ago and wrote a long explanation of its many flaws. To summarize, it is an aggregation of many polls which claimed to tally more than 50,000 different votes, and had a "global character results" page that was very unflattering for Shantae, placing her at 30th place, behind the likes of Crash Bandicoot and Chorus Men. The good news is that this was due to some huge flaws and distortions in the aggregation rather than an actual lack of popularity. The bad news was that to anyone not reading carefully, it looked definitive and bad for Shantae, and therefore amounted to damaging misinformation.

Anyways I have good news on this. A couple days ago I saw someone reference this on reddit as definitive results, so I replied explaining the problems with it, and mentioning that there were a bunch of polls left out. The person who runs that aggregation (who I had conversed with over reddit previously) then messaged me, asking if he could have those polls that he had missed, and offered to remove a huge pre-ballot poll from the aggregation once he had those.

This is super great for two reasons. The first is that polls taken before the ballot was even announced cannot be taken as reliable measures of who people saw fit to vote for after the ballot was announced, so removing a giant pre-ballot poll is a huge improvement to the aggregation, since that was such a huge distortion of the results. Especially when you consider that it is being replaced with several much more recent polls, it's a giant improvement to the reliability of that aggregation. The second reason this is such good news is that this correction is very favorable for Shantae. Like Shovel Knight, she had no presence before the ballot, so eliminating the pre-ballot poll and adding a bunch of more up-to-date polls dramatically improves her placing. He has yet to update the "global character results" section, but looking at his numbers, Shantae will probably take spot #10 or #11 in his overall global results. That is pretty damn good for a character with so little recognition in Japan.

On top of that, he even moved the "US/Euro" results to be the front tab, and posted a message at the top saying to please look at these rather than the global results, which he will update once better results come in from Japan. This also improves the reliability of what he's got here, because right now all he has for Japan are two very small and outdated polls, which in the global data section get weighted to account for 1/3 of the results. That is a big distortion, so putting the US/Euro results front and center while he gathers more data from Japan is a smart choice. It's also nice from a Shantae perspective because she sits at #5 in the "US/Euro" results.

That's not to say this aggregation is totally great for us. Shantae would actually be doing a lot better if it weren't for the fact that by far the largest poll still included in his results was one that took place almost immediately after the announcement of the ballot, on which Shantae came in at a mediocre 16th place. This hurts her a lot. If that poll were omitted she would overtake Banjo Kazooie and Shovel Knight to sit at #3 in the US/EU results. Also the results from Japan are going to be tallied in a strange way. Apparently Japan is not as fond of polls as we are, because instead of aggregating poll results for Japan, PushDustin over at Source Gaming is counting "mentions" of each character. What sites and discussion boards he's looking for these mentions on I have no idea. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet as a reliable indicator of Japanese ballot votes. From a Shantae perspective though I doubt it matters much. Shantae may not be a complete unknown in Japan, but I don't think Japanese results are going to do her any favors.

There is no denying that this is a huge improvement, both for Shantae and for the accuracy of the data in general. Assuming people check his updated results, this is no longer blatant misinformation damaging our cause here. Now it's overall pretty good information that doesn't look bad at all for Shantae.

As much as I objected vigorously to his initial data compiling, I have to give this guy props. He saw me all over reddit trash talking his project that he had put so much work into compiling and promoting, and rather than writing me off as an *sshole with a vested interest, he listened to my concerns and invited me to help him improve it. That demonstrates to me that he is both reasonable and dedicated to providing accurate information. Respect to him.

 

[Children0fTheStars]

Interesting that you were able to convince him to have a change of heart. Don't see that often online. Hope you're right and it does mean good things for her popularity standings

And... unbelievable. GameFAQs has been one (if not the main; thankfully, it's not like the community there is that large) website to aggressively shut down any discussion about Shantae, but for whatever reason they're way more tolerant of Shovel Knight. Maybe that predisposition is the explanation for this: I'm reading their Shovel Knight rumor thread and people say they'd be fine with him because his game is an homage to classic Nintendo platformers. As if that's something exclusive to SK.

Which I'm aware that it is. But it's a double-standard when they refuse to talk about Shantae; her series has also been a Metroidvania at its core, and at least Risky's Revenge and Pirate's Curse both feel like they take a lot of influence from Metroid, and even some aspects of Zelda games for the latter. It's not like this works as justification for SK getting picked.

I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to go off the handle or steer the thread even more towards SK discussion, but there's nowhere else to vent.

What are our thoughts on Nintendo possibly doing an Indie Pack and actually including both characters as fighters, and maybe that being a surprise announcement for Nindies@Night/PAX? People have suggested this, and my first assumption was that the idea of two indie fighters was completely out of the question. But considering Nintendo wants to improve relations with indie developers, should it be written off that easily?

 

[TheRickyWill]

Interesting that you were able to convince him to have a change of heart. Don't see that often online. Hope you're right and it does mean good things for her popularity standings

And... unbelievable. GameFAQs has been one (if not the main; thankfully, it's not like the community there is that large) website to aggressively shut down any discussion about Shantae, but for whatever reason they're way more tolerant of Shovel Knight. Maybe that predisposition is the explanation for this: I'm reading their Shovel Knight rumor thread and people say they'd be fine with him because his game is an homage to classic Nintendo platformers. As if that's something exclusive to SK.

Which I'm aware that it is. But it's a double-standard when they refuse to talk about Shantae; her series has also been a Metroidvania at its core, and at least Risky's Revenge and Pirate's Curse both feel like they take a lot of influence from Metroid, and even some aspects of Zelda games for the latter. It's not like this works as justification for SK getting picked.

I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to go off the handle or steer the thread even more towards SK discussion, but there's nowhere else to vent.

What are our thoughts on Nintendo possibly doing an Indie Pack and actually including both characters as fighters, and maybe that being a surprise announcement for Nindies@Night/PAX? People have suggested this, and my first assumption was that the idea of two indie fighters was completely out of the question. But considering Nintendo wants to improve relations with indie developers, should it be written off that easily?

Considering how the only reason Ness got into Smash was because of the upcoming Mother 3 for the N64 (Which was cancelled), Lucas got in to promote the actual mother 3, Roy got in Smash before he was actually in a Fire Emblem title, Greninja was added in development before Pokemon X/Y came out, Pichu was added to promote Gold/Silver/Crystal, and how Snake got in only because Kojima is buddies with Sakurai...

The answer comes down to a "maybe".

I'm still incredibly suspicious about her absence in Runbow (if you're tired of me talking about it, sorry), as Nintendo was in charge of getting all those other Indie characters in, which for some reason included the Drifter, since HLD isn't coming to Wii U until next year, and Unity-Chan... Ugh. As Yellowlord has told me, 13AM games also wanted to get in touch with Wayforward, as they actually wanted Shantae in the game, and never mentioned that Wayforward declined (considering how much Wayforward likes to promote others, I doubt they did) but it seems that Nintendo skipped over them with no explanation.

 

[gb7zone7]

Considering how the only reason Ness got into Smash was because of the upcoming Mother 3 for the N64 (Which was cancelled), Lucas got in to promote the actual mother 3, Roy got in Smash before he was actually in a Fire Emblem title, Greninja was added in development before Pokemon X/Y came out, Pichu was added to promote Gold/Silver/Crystal, and how Snake got in only because Kojima is buddies with Sakurai...

The answer comes down to a "maybe".

I'm still incredibly suspicious about her absence in Runbow (if you're tired of me talking about it, sorry), as Nintendo was in charge of getting all those other Indie characters in, which for some reason included the Drifter, since HLD isn't coming to Wii U until next year, and Unity-Chan... Ugh. 13AM games also wanted to get in touch with Wayforward, as they actually wanted Shantae in the game, and never mentioned that Wayforward declined (considering how much Wayforward likes to promote others, I doubt they did) but it seems that Nintendo skipped over them with no explanation.

I've seen reviews for Runbow and I've yet to hear anything Shantae related. Unless they decide to release a Day 1 update as a surprise.

 

[TheRickyWill]

I've seen reviews for Runbow and I've yet to hear anything Shantae related. Unless they decide to release a Day 1 update as a surprise.

It comes out tomorrow, but I'm still holding out.

 

[Zapster]

Shantae? Eww. Hard pass on the s*ut genie.

 

[GoldLiger]

It comes out tomorrow, but I'm still holding out.

If nothing Shantae related is unlocked in the game what does that mean when WayForward was okay with putting her in their. Was their ANY problems with Shantae being in Runbow?

EDIT: Dude if you are here to bash then get the F out. We don't need bashers in this section.

 

[TheRickyWill]

>Whines about people wanting Shantae

>Wants Daisy

One of the few Female Protagonists popular on Nintendo systems < Damsel in Distress that's only in spinoffs
(I don't care if it was once, it still counts.)

 

[GoldLiger]

People need to THINK. What is better?
A Female Damsel or a Female PROTAGONIST(aka like freaking Samus Aran!!)

Shantae is the ONLY female I can think of to be part of Smash and join her sempai Samus.

 

[Children0fTheStars]

People need to THINK. What is better?
A Female Damsel or a Female PROTAGONIST(aka like freaking Samus Aran!!)

Shantae is the ONLY female I can think of to be part of Smash and join her sempai Samus.

Well, as I brought up in my Top 10 post, there would also be Classic Lara Croft... I mean, if Snake can fit in, Lara definitely could.

But there's the problem of her no longer being the current iteration of the character (and the new one is far too serious and edgy to cohesively work with a Nintendo game), as well as being owned by Squeenix.

 

[Zapster]

Shantae isn't like Samus... She runs around, whips people with her hair *oh creative!* while her boobs flop around. At least Samus fights like a boss and doesn't sexualize herself for popularity... Except for Other M. That was a crap show.

I mean, why not just support a more likely candidate like the infamous Jynx! The ice/psychic type genie looking pokemon! Lol

 

[GoldLiger]

Why are you here and not on your OWN supporting board?

 

[TheRickyWill]

Shantae isn't like Samus... She runs around, whips people with her hair *oh creative!* while her boobs flop around. At least Samus fights like a boss and doesn't sexualize herself for popularity... Except for Other M. That was a crap show.

I mean, why not just support a more likely candidate like the infamous Jynx! The ice/psychic type genie looking pokemon! Lol

Advice: Actually play the games before you have an opinion.

If anything, Shantae's stronger than Samus, as she's taken on monsters as big or bigger than what Samus has faced, no Power Suit required.

Other unsung female heroines like Reimu Hakurei from Touhou Project and Namco's Valkyrie are also stronger than Samus.

 

[Deleted member]

You're better off ignoring those who are only here to troll and not with any intent to actually do any worthwhile discussion.

 

[Zapster]

Advice: Actually play the games before you have an opinion.

If anything, Shantae's stronger than Samus, as she's taken on monsters as big or bigger than what Samus has faced, no Power Suit required.

Other unsung female heroines like Reimu Hakurei from Touhou Project are also stronger than Samus.

Kudos to this guy, for actually making a case for Shantae even if he acts like he knows what characters I support for DLC

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

Huh, I'm quite surprise to see another detractor show up on this thread at this point in time.

But for everyone that supports the character of the thread, just calmly avoid being rude back to the members as that doesn't help anything and just causes trouble for the thread. But, @ Zapster , glad that you have your reasons of disapproving the idea of Shantae as a fighter, but please, try to remind civil and avoid censor dodging like you have done earlier. Or I will have to have the mods handle that if that continues.

 

[DoctorSanity]

Why are we talking about how powerful characters are in a game where the destroyer of worlds, demons, and Gods

Kirby

Is running around as a relatively low tier character?

 

[FalKoopa]

Shantae isn't like Samus... She runs around, whips people with her hair *oh creative!* while her boobs flop around. At least Samus fights like a boss and doesn't sexualize herself for popularity... Except for Other M. That was a crap show.

I mean, why not just support a more likely candidate like the infamous Jynx! The ice/psychic type genie looking pokemon! Lol

If you're incapable of debating in a civil manner, please leave.