The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (SAKURAAAAAAAAAI!)

[Shroob]

For my two cents on the matter.

5 is an all around good number. While I don't put it past Sakurai to maybe add another, it could happen, I think where we're at right now as far as Mario is concerned is not bad at all. We had 5 in Melee, though one was a clone so 4.5, and went back to 4 in Brawl, so 5 just feels good this time around, to me at least.... Especially since the 5th character isn't just an alternate Mario.

Mario is more or less Nintendo's flagship series, so it makes sense for it to have a lot of characters, and even then it has more than just 5 when you think about it. Yoshi and Wario, while sporting their own emblems, are spin offs of the Mario franchise.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Starfy is by no means dead. Try plying his games and you'll see he's got a lot of moveset potential. Plus the Lumas can be different colours and are unmistakably dumpy.

 

[Rouge]

I'd imagine starfy fighting like the luma did, with the spins and the cute little rush punches. That's why.

Also this ain't super mario bros. It's super smash bros, were not gonna get an over saturation of mario characters like it or not. I'd expect for sakurai to dive into the other franchises now, imo i think the mario franchise is done for this installment, but if it takes the game's release to make you guys see.... then so be it.

Seriously the denial in some people.... lol.

It's not necessarily denial. It's not like Sakurai ever said that 5 was the maximum for a franchise. All caps are purely speculation from us and don't count as hard evidence. I personally do think that 5 is a good number and 6 would probably be overkill, especially for a series so tightly connected with Yoshi, Wario and even DK, but that's merely an assumption. Melee had 5 Mario characters and Sm4sh could have close to twice as many characters as Melee.

So unless Sakurai explicitly said something like "let me present you our fifth and final Mario character" or "there won't be more than 5 fighters per series because we like to include as many Nintendo universes as possible", then it's not set in stone.

Again, I'm not at all defending the odds of Jr., Waluigi, Toad or Paper. Their prediction value SANK this morning. But if we start disconfirming characters based on reasonable assumptions (as opposed to factual information), this thread is definitely going to look silly after the release, for a reason or another.

 

[APC99]

I'm not putting any other major Mario characters in the Graveyard because of Rosalina's reveal. Although they're unlikely, it doesn't de-confirm anything yet.

 

[Moon Monkey]

This thread should also double as a demolition thread (graveyard for stages)

Skullkid deconfirms Great Bay from Melee?

 

[Blaziken]

This thread should also double as a demolition thread (graveyard for stages)

Skullkid deconfirms Great Bay from Melee?

I'm not sure if a character would deconfirm a stage from appearing.

On the topic of 5 character reps, Pokemon has 6 characters, counting Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard as separate characters, in Brawl. Although the Mario series is unlikely to have more than 5 characters, it is possible.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I'm not sure if a character would deconfirm a stage from appearing.

On the topic of 5 character reps, Pokemon has 6 characters, counting Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard as separate characters, in Brawl. Although the Mario series is unlikely to have more than 5 characters, it is possible.

Do you remember in Great Bay how the Moon would slowly fall to the stage and be stopped by the giants that would thrust the Moon back in the sky?
If SkullKid summons the moon from Majora's Mask, how can their also be another moon in the background??

You can't have 2 moons falling now can you??

 

[AnOkayDM]

You can't have 2 moons falling now can you??

We figured out the plot of Majora's Mask 2.

 

[Spire]

You can't have 2 moons falling now can you??

If you can have 2 Donkey Kongs fighting 2 Bowsers you can have 2 moons. Smash Bros. breaks a lot of rules, or rather, it smashes a lot of rules.

 

[Blaziken]

Do you remember in Great Bay how the Moon would slowly fall to the stage and be stopped by the giants that would thrust the Moon back in the sky?
If SkullKid summons the moon from Majora's Mask, how can their also be another moon in the background??

You can't have 2 moons falling now can you??

There's still a Blue Falcon in the F-Zero stages if Captain Falcon is fighting. Falco and Wolf will still talk in Fox's codecs in the Star Fox stages, even if they're fighting. Two moons isn't too big of an issue.

If you can have 2 Donkey Kongs fighting 2 Bowsers you can have 2 moons. Smash Bros. breaks a lot of rules, or rather, it smashes a lot of rules.

 

[Moon Monkey]

If you can have 2 Donkey Kongs fighting 2 Bowsers you can have 2 moons. Smash Bros. breaks a lot of rules, or rather, it smashes a lot of rules.

Having 2 Bowsers and 2 DKs or all 4 Marios is fine, as odd and hypocritical as it sounds, because to me that is all player driven. but I would at least think the game should make sense for the series it represents for the most part. Like how Link on the ST stage and the Link that is playable are 2 different Links

There's still a Blue Falcon in the F-Zero stages if Captain Falcon is fighting. Falco and Wolf will still talk in Fox's codecs in the Star Fox stages, even if they're fighting. Two moons isn't too big of an issue.

The codecs are fine, because they can talk and fight at the same time. But the Blue Falcon argument you have a point, so fair enough.

 

[jaytalks]

I don't think Starfy is dead, but his chances are definitely on lower side of whatever they were on before. The visual similarity between Luma and Starfy are hard to ignore. It's not about moveset potential

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think that Starfy is disconfirmed because of Rosalina and the Lumas. I say it does lower his chances due to the hard to ignore similarities between Starfy and the Lumas. However, there are three things that keep Starfy alive:
1. Assist Trophy status: Some Assist Trophies were characters that almost made it to the final roster but didn't. This is evidenced in Starfy as he is the only Assist Trophy that can be knocked back by attacks. Another interesting quirk is that his sister, Starly, is in the fighter-related category in the list of Trophies. This could mean that Starfy was planned at some point but was scrapped.
2. I remember an old quote by Sakurai stating that he would love to see Kirby and Starfy in a game together. While they were in Brawl, I think that having them fight each other in Smash Bros. would be much better opportunity for Sakurai.
3. Starfy is one of the most requested newcomers in Japan. He isn't near King K. Rool or Palutena levels of requests, but he comes rather close.
I still think that Starfy has a good chance with all things considered. I think that he will most likely be an Assist Trophy again, but I won't lose hope for the starfish.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

APC99 i think you need to catch up

Very likly all of the other possible mario characters are in the graveyard. (Bowser jr, paper mario
Waluigi, and especially toad now)

 

[Deleted member]

APC99 i think you need to catch up

Very likly all of the other possible mario characters are in the graveyard. (Bowser jr, paper mario
Waluigi, and especially toad now)

Bowser Jr. is the only plausible Mario character of the bunch. Waluigi, Toad, and Paper Mario should be in the graveyard. Bowser Jr. has a slim chance, but he would still be the 6th Mario rep.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Bowser Jr. is the only plausible Mario character of the bunch. Waluigi, Toad, and Paper Mario should be in the graveyard. Bowser Jr. has a slim chance, but he would still be the 6th Mario rep.

I think Paper Mario is the only one who has a chance since he would probably represent his own series. I expect 10 slots to be occupied by characters from the Mario expanded universe (including Wario, Yoshi and DK).
So far, we got 6: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser and Donkey Kong. I'll assume Yoshi and Wario are definitely going to return. Diddy Kong is too, and he could bring Dixie Kong with him. I'm only interested to know if she's going to be a different character or play in tag team with him. If it's going to be a tag team, there's a spot left for another rep, which could be Paper Mario or King K. Rool.
It's speculation though. The only thing I'm sure is that there's still a spot left, since 9 are already taken (I hope you don't believe Sakurai is going to get rid of Yoshi, Wario and Diddy Kong). We'll see about that.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Paper Mario is the only one who has a chance since he would probably represent his own series. I expect 10 slots to be occupied by characters from the Mario expanded universe (including Wario, Yoshi and DK).
So far, we got 6: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser and Donkey Kong. I'll assume Yoshi and Wario are definitely going to return. Diddy Kong is too, and he could bring Dixie Kong with him. I'm only interested to know if she's going to be a different character or play in tag team with him. If it's going to be a tag team, there's a spot left for another rep, which could be Paper Mario or King K. Rool.
It's speculation though. The only thing I'm sure is that there's still a spot left, since 9 are already taken (I hope you don't believe Sakurai is going to get rid of Yoshi, Wario and Diddy Kong). We'll see about that.

I think that Paper Mario would still be considered a part of the Mario universe though. We don't have Toon Link represent a whole new Toon Zelda universe, so I don't think that Paper Mario would represent the Super Mario universe rather than a whole new Paper Mario universe.
If we were to have a max of ten Mario reps (sub-series included), it would be King K. Rool; no doubt about it.
The only way I see Yoshi, Wario, and Diddy Kong get cut is if Sakurai and his team went to some bar, got incredibly drunk while at that bar, and then decided it would be a good idea to cut them.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I think that Paper Mario would still be considered a part of the Mario universe though. We don't have Toon Link represent a whole new Toon Zelda universe, so I don't think that Paper Mario would represent the Super Mario universe rather than a whole new Paper Mario universe.
If we were to have a max of ten Mario reps (sub-series included), it would be King K. Rool; no doubt about it.
The only way I see Yoshi, Wario, and Diddy Kong get cut is if Sakurai and his team went to some bar, got incredibly drunk while at that bar, and then decided it would be a good idea to cut them.

Umh, it's not really the same thing. Toon Link is very much different from "normal" Link, but he's still a part of the main franchise. The Wind Waker is a major entry at the same level of Ocarina Of Time, for example (you can argue about Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks being spin-off, but only timeline-wise, the games are still part of the major Zelda franchise).
Paper Mario on the other hand is not only different from a graphical stand-point, it creates a complete new and different game mechanic. The first Paper Mario (and all the others obviously) is not part of the Mario main line for a variety of reasons.
I mean, you can consider The Wind Waker to be "The Legend Of Zelda 10" (as in it's the tenth installment in the Zelda franchise) but you can't really consider Paper Mario to be "Super Mario Bros. 13" (the number is random I don't really know where it would place).

After all this in fact, I still consider Paper Mario to be a much more worthy playable character than Toon Link, anyway...

 

[Deleted member]

Umh, it's not really the same thing. Toon Link is very much different from "normal" Link, but he's still a part of the main franchise. The Wind Waker is a major entry at the same level of Ocarina Of Time, for example (you can argue about Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks being spin-off, but only timeline-wise, the games are still part of the major Zelda franchise).
Paper Mario on the other hand is not only different from a graphical stand-point, it creates a complete new and different game mechanic. The first Paper Mario (and all the others obviously) is not part of the Mario main line for a variety of reasons.
I mean, you can consider The Wind Waker to be "The Legend Of Zelda 10" (as in it's the tenth installment in the Zelda franchise) but you can't really consider Paper Mario to be "Super Mario Bros. 13" (the number is random I don't really know where it would place).

After all this in fact, I still consider Paper Mario to be a much more worthy playable character than Toon Link, anyway...

While the Paper Mario series is extremely unique and very different from the traditional Mario games, I still consider it to be a part of the Mario universe and I think that Paper Mario would represent Mario rather than Paper Mario.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I don't think we should say any other Mario character is deconfirmed yet, but none of you should get your hopes up for a 6th Mario character either as their chances were shot down.

 

[Vintage Creep]

While the Paper Mario series is extremely unique and very different from the traditional Mario games, I still consider it to be a part of the Mario universe and I think that Paper Mario would represent Mario rather than Paper Mario.

Of the Mario universe? Sure, but at this point even Donkey Kong, Yoshi and Wario should be considered reps of it, but they aren't.

 

[APC99]

I'm not disconfirming Waluigi, Bowser Junior, Paper Mario or anybody else. This is a thread devoted to specific evidence that a certain character is disconfirmed. If Waluigi was revealed as an AT, he'd be here. However, just because there are 5 Mario characters does not mean that these characters will 100% not join the fight. Slim chance? Yes. Totally disconfirmed? No. I will pull up a poll later, though, talking about a lot of "disconfirmed" characters (Miis, Starfy, Little Mac, Toad again, Waluigi, Bowser Junior and Paper Mario), and I'm also going to get some other info as well.

 

[Arcadenik]

So, the cause of death is an arrow to the heart...

Add Starfy to that list.

In Sakurai's eyes Luma seems more ideal to compare at Kirby than Starfy as it seems.

Remember that rumor about Sakurai hating Starfy? It's starting to hold water.

Rest in peace, Starfy... and rest in peace, Toad. You shall be missed...

 

[Rouge]

Of the Mario universe? Sure, but at this point even Donkey Kong, Yoshi and Wario should be considered reps of it, but they aren't.

Donkey Kong and Wario, you can make a strong point that they at least have their own universes that have nothing to do with Mario. I guess the same could be argued for Paper Mario, even though it has Mario, Bowser, Peach and Luigi much like the main series. Yoshi should definitely be with Mario and something tells me that had Yoshi not been one of the original 8, he wouldn't have had his own icon.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Donkey Kong and Wario, you can make a strong point that they at least have their own universes that have nothing to do with Mario. I guess the same could be argued for Paper Mario, even though it has Mario, Bowser, Peach and Luigi much like the main series. Yoshi should definitely be with Mario and something tells me that had Yoshi not been one of the original 8, he wouldn't have had his own icon.

If it was for me every single character would have it's own icon, to be honest.
Mario = fire flower
Luigi = a Boo or a ghost
Peach = the mushroom
Bowser = maybe a spiked shell, of like the Bowser Icon in Mario Party
Rosalina & Luma = a star bit from Mario Galaxy
Yoshi = the egg
Donkey Kong = a banana or DK again
Diddy Kong = his wooden gun
Wario = the W, or maybe garlic

It could work for other franchises too:
Pikachu = Poké Ball
Pokémon Trainer = a medal, or you could go all the way and give a flame to Charizard, a water drop to Squirtle and a leaf to Ivysaur
Jigglypuff = Moon Stone
Lucario = the Mega Ring maybe
Mewtwo = the psychic element from the cards, or the Master Ball

Link = Triforce
Zelda = Light Arrow
Sheik = the Ocarina
Toon Link = the Wind Waker rod
Ganon / Ganondorf = kinda hard but I'm sure there's some kind of Gerudo symbol he can use

 

[BluePikmin11]

Paper Mario's chances aren't really dead, he can have his own icon to represent his series.
But I feel it might be at the cost of a DK newcomer.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Honestly, Paper Mario has the best shot at this point. And for the others I would say their run is over. Unless this is the game Sakurai adds alot of familar faces to please demands of Miyamoto and Iwata, but I really doubt it. Paper Mario is a sub series, he wouldn't be such a Toon Link and it's a face people recognize. Maybe a Wii U Paper Mario is coming? And they are awaiting to show him then?

 

[Vintage Creep]

If a Paper Mario U is happening, I hope it's going to be like the original and The Thousand-Year Door.
They tried twice to change him and it didn't work. Super was still pretty good but Sticker Star was simply a bad Paper Mario game.

 

[Jubileus57]

If a Paper Mario U is happening, I hope it's going to be like the original and The Thousand-Year Door.
They tried twice to change him and it didn't work. Super was still pretty good but Sticker Star was simply a bad Paper Mario game.

I agree that the first two are the best ones but I didn't find Sticker Star to be a BAD Paper Mario game. IMO, it had the best graphics in the serie so far, and the gameplay was rather original and I found it pretty enjoyable overall. And the soundtrack rocks.
I admit though that the scenario was a tad puny, but as far aas I can remember the first Paper Mario had pretty much the same one .
Anyways, I can't wait to see the Paper Mario Wii U.

 

[Pacack]

I do think that we should hold off on any official "deconfirmations" to avoid another R.O.B. incident, even though even I acknowledge that a 6th Mario character is unlikely.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Since Dry Bones and Boo are home to the graveyard, does that make them unplayable as we'll? I'm confused.

ITT: Misleading

I do think that we should hold off on any official "deconfirmations" to avoid another R.O.B. incident, even though even I acknowledge that a 6th Mario character is unlikely.

Weren't there 6 Mario characters in Brawl?

EDIT: Nvm, Wario and Yoshi don't fall under that category.

Whelp, there goes my hopes for BJ/KK.

 

[APC99]

I feel that, although Rosalina makes a Mario character unlikely, Yoshi, Wario and Donkey Kong are unaffected by this.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel that, although Rosalina makes a Mario character unlikely, Yoshi, Wario and Donkey Kong are unaffected by this.

The only real and plausible newcomers from the three Mario sub-series are King K. Rool and Dixie Kong. I can't see any character from Yoshi or Wario that will get added in this game. Those series are fine with just Yoshi and Wario.

 

[APC99]

The only real and plausible newcomers from the three Mario sub-series are King K. Rool and Dixie Kong. I can't see any character from Yoshi or Wario that will get added in this game. Those series are fine with just Yoshi and Wario.

My thoughts exactly. I can't really see a Wario newcomer happening, as well as Yoshi (but I'd adore Mona or Kamek to appear), so K. Rool and Dixie are really the only ones left. Except for Paper Mario, of course.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The only real and plausible newcomers from the three Mario sub-series are King K. Rool and Dixie Kong. I can't see any character from Yoshi or Wario that will get added in this game. Those series are fine with just Yoshi and Wario.

Same here. Besides, Kamek seems more suited to be an Assist Trophy when you think it over.

 

[nessokman]

Two main flaws in the OP, Viridi isn't "Deconfirmed" Sakurai was just saying that the stage in the picture was from that part in the game, he never gave any proof or hint that she isn't playable.Viridi Might appear in the background of the level, as she did in that stage of Uprising, but that far from deconfirms her. If you think her appearing on a stage deconfirms her, please see:

Reset bombs may be a hazard, but still, viridi is not deconfirmed...yet..

also Kid Icarus: Uprising is from 2012, not 2011.

 

[APC99]

Two main flaws in the OP, Viridi isn't "Deconfirmed" Sakurai was just saying that the stage in the picture was from that part in the game, he never gave any proof or hint that she isn't playable.Viridi Might appear in the background of the level, as she did in that stage of Uprising, but that far from deconfirms her. If you think her appearing on a stage deconfirms her, please see:
View attachment 5301






Reset bombs may be a hazard, but still, viridi is not deconfirmed...yet..

also Kid Icarus: Uprising is from 2012, not 2011.

I'll fix the release date.

However, most people considered Viridi to be disconfirmed by this statement. I'll add that to the upcoming poll, but there is one flaw with your argument: Toon Link and Conductor Link are two completely separate characters, they can co-exist without too much trouble. However, there is not another Viridi look-alike that could take her place.

 

[nessokman]

I'll fix the release date.

However, most people considered Viridi to be disconfirmed by this statement. I'll add that to the upcoming poll, but there is one flaw with your argument: Toon Link and Conductor Link are two completely separate characters, they can co-exist without too much trouble. However, there is not another Viridi look-alike that could take her place.

Good for that date, I remember it coming out near my birthday in 2012, and playing it this year and thinking "Damn, it's been a year already, such a good game"

Regardless, toon link is toon link, the name does not specify a certain link from Wind Waker, it specifies a Cell Shaded cartoonish looking link who is a child. Nobody said "CONDUCTOR LINK 4 SMASH!", or "WIND WAKER LINK 4 SMASH" people say toon link, automatically meaning the link that is in those cell shaded games.


Sorry to be so technical

 

[AnOkayDM]

Good for that date, I remember it coming out near my birthday in 2012, and playing it this year and thinking "Damn, it's been a year already, such a good game"

Regardless, toon link is toon link, the name does not specify a certain link from Wind Waker, it specifies a Cell Shaded cartoonish looking link who is a child. Nobody said "CONDUCTOR LINK 4 SMASH!", or "WIND WAKER LINK 4 SMASH" people say toon link, automatically meaning the link that is in those cell shaded games.


Sorry to be so technical

But they're separate characters. That's all there is to it.

 

[nessokman]

But they're separate characters. That's all there is to it.

Regardless, "Toon Link" Can refer to any link falling under a toon appearance, regardless of if they are "Separate" or not, Wind Waker and Spirit Tracks are both TOON LINK, meaning that Conductor link is technically a "Toon Link" regardless of who they are.