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The Deadly 4
- Thread starter lil cj
- Start date
prOAPC
Smash Lord
vs DK
i got grabbed and i failed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZDityBGWjc
i didn't get grabbed and i won http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TgAGHoF1A4
DK has a good grab game, his nair, bair and uair are really good
one more fight vs DK to come, but only with 2 stock, because it was a friendly and the tourney had to finish. In this fight i tech the throw to the wall ^^
i got grabbed and i failed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZDityBGWjci didn't get grabbed and i won
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TgAGHoF1A4DK has a good grab game, his nair, bair and uair are really good
one more fight vs DK to come, but only with 2 stock, because it was a friendly and the tourney had to finish. In this fight i tech the throw to the wall ^^
ZMan
Smash Master
Mk is banned in NM so I've forgotten most of my tricks against him (johns m i rite?).
Neon Ness
Designated Procrastinator
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 3,631
...Lucky.
ZMan
Smash Master
That doesn't mean we won't unban him for when we go OOS.
Try running a tourny with no MK. It's so much more fun without him.
Try running a tourny with no MK. It's so much more fun without him.
ToxiCrow
Smash Ace
yeah, answered my own question
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2005
- Messages
- 8,189
MK is banned here, so when Zman randomly asks me to play MK again, I am like ok.
[Johns.]
We know that it puts us at a disadvantage, which is why we still will practice vs him, however we like to have a good time. So MK is banned here.
I was the only MK mainer in NM btw. And I pushed the ban as much as anyone else for our state, even though I was on the losing end of the deal.
lil cj
Smash Lord
Is there any other ways to beat MK besides waiting for him to get banned...lol
I know we can dair his shuttle loop and space with pk fire/ftilt but is there something else Lucas can do that can shut a good MK down??
Maybe jus against MK...a Lucas main should b-stick...lol
idk...jus a thought.
I know we can dair his shuttle loop and space with pk fire/ftilt but is there something else Lucas can do that can shut a good MK down??
Maybe jus against MK...a Lucas main should b-stick...lol
idk...jus a thought.
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
Lmfao Lmfao Lmfao Lmfao Lmfao
FireKirby7
Smash Lord
For MK I Usmash or pivot grab when he's gliding towards me. All MK mains use Gair after a glide, it seems. It works most of the time. But I wouldn't do it more than once.
Cheeri-Oats
Smash Lord
*facepalm through face and into wall*
Cheeri-Oats
Smash Lord
Sorry for the double post.
At a 108 man tourney this past weekend, I played all 4 of Lucas worst match-ups in a row, and those were my only matches at the tourney. I don't know if this valuable information, but it's information none-the-less with my opinion at the end.
1st Set (I got a Bye)
1st Match: Me (ROB) vs Marth
We randomed FD, and at first I tried to approach with Fairs, but seeing how I'm not a good ROB and I only use the character for this match-up, I just pseudo-camped and barely got the win.
2nd Match: Me (ROB) vs Marth
He cp'd Battlefield and 3-stocked me, practically.
3rd Match: Me (Lucas) vs Meta-Knight
I don't want to fight his Marth because it will **** my ROB, and since that's my character to face against Marths, it'd probably demolish my Lucas. He bans Brinstar, and I take a chance and pick Luigi's. A big stage that I can camp on with Lucas (still thinking he'll pick Marth) and fopefully survive for an obscene amount of time and take advantage of the pillars. He picks Meta-Knight, and I immediately have a ray of hope because I know exactly what he'll do. I two-stocked him. Almost a JV 3-Stock.
2nd Set
1st Match: Me (Snake) vs Game and Watch
I want to pick up Snake for this match-up but my Snake is so bad. I get 3-stocked and learn a lesson. Just so you people know, this Game and Watch player is the 4th-ranked player in my region, and went on to get 2nd place in the tourney.
2nd Match: Me (Lucas) vs Meta-Knight
Hoping for lightning to strike twice, I pick Luigi's again and lo-and-behold, he went Meta-Knight and I went Lucas. I won by a whole stock.
3rd Match: Me (Lucas) vs Game and Watch
I ban Rainbow Cruise, because he likes to go there with Game and Watch and he CPs Battlefield. I pick Lucas knowing I had no secondary to win with and I figured it'd be a lesson of learning. I camped, I played aggressive, and I spaced to the best of my ability, trying three distinct strategies with my three stocks. All failed and shut down.
3rd Set
1st Match: DK
Randomed Battlefied and it was a close match. Standing infinites are banned at the tourney and I tried my best to avoid the grab. Spammed PKFire, punished rolling and dodging with nair, and only pecked with the jab. I won.
2nd Match: DK
I ban Lylat, and he takes me to Jungle Japes. I don't know what to expect so I just camp the right and left platforms with pk fire. It works at first but he finds a way to approach and takes an early stock. I catch up each time and he is always a good percentage ahead. The high ceiling works to my avantage and I'm able to not get up-smashed. I even up the game but I fall into the water and get Klaptrapped on my last stock at ~0%. He wins.
3rd Match: DK
I think of every possible stage that I could have an advantage on. I want to avoid getting grabbed, and deal with his poor vertical recovery. I pick Brinstar and it works well. He gets an early gimp but I have the most epic comeback and in the last few seconds of the match, my dsmash keeps him from recovering for a long time on the right. DK's Up-B < Lucas D-Smash on the right. And when he tried to recover right above me, I attempt to up-smash but miss and he gets a grab to grab-release dsmash and I die. He was at 200% and I was at 100%. I made too many mistakes.
Summary:
I took on two MKs (one good, and one really really good) at Luigi's and I won. With Lucas.
Out of the 4, Game and Watch is the hardest, then Marth, then DK, then Meta-Knight. Against Marth and Game and Watch, as far as I can see, it is impossible to win on a neutral stage. PK Fire can be stopped by their aerials and they will not get punished. Game and Watch has the bucket and can nullify your recovery. Marth can out-space you and **** you up with grab to dsmash.
Of course, this is just my opinion, but I've probably played more Game and Watches and Marths than most of the Lucas board members that regularly post. I know I didn't play Lucas against Marth but I know what's reasonable what's winnable, and having played so many Marths in my region, it's just not winnable as far as I can see.
DK is fine, as long as the tournament bans standing infinites and such. The DK player I played is one of the best in our region. Really smart player and taught me a lot. I know I'm not the best Lucas and there are things I can work on. This is all based on the meta-game as of right now and how I play, and I'm confident enough to think I'm one of the better Lucases.
Edit for Knowledge and Credibility:
kramCAKEs wrote at 3:46 PM on Dec 29, 2008:
Yeah but u got me first match >_< lol, but **** lucas > mk at luigis haha too good
Bigfoot wrote at 5:00 PM on Dec 29, 2008:
yeah, that was fun, I haven't had a set that close since I played ajax, good **** man, your lucas is freakin scary. Heads up for next time, don't cp brinstar on dk. I got a little cocky at the end and almost let it slip, but that stage ***** for dk, no spiking his recovery and low blastzones for really early ko's
At a 108 man tourney this past weekend, I played all 4 of Lucas worst match-ups in a row, and those were my only matches at the tourney. I don't know if this valuable information, but it's information none-the-less with my opinion at the end.
1st Set (I got a Bye)
1st Match: Me (ROB) vs Marth
We randomed FD, and at first I tried to approach with Fairs, but seeing how I'm not a good ROB and I only use the character for this match-up, I just pseudo-camped and barely got the win.
2nd Match: Me (ROB) vs Marth
He cp'd Battlefield and 3-stocked me, practically.
3rd Match: Me (Lucas) vs Meta-Knight
I don't want to fight his Marth because it will **** my ROB, and since that's my character to face against Marths, it'd probably demolish my Lucas. He bans Brinstar, and I take a chance and pick Luigi's. A big stage that I can camp on with Lucas (still thinking he'll pick Marth) and fopefully survive for an obscene amount of time and take advantage of the pillars. He picks Meta-Knight, and I immediately have a ray of hope because I know exactly what he'll do. I two-stocked him. Almost a JV 3-Stock.
2nd Set
1st Match: Me (Snake) vs Game and Watch
I want to pick up Snake for this match-up but my Snake is so bad. I get 3-stocked and learn a lesson. Just so you people know, this Game and Watch player is the 4th-ranked player in my region, and went on to get 2nd place in the tourney.
2nd Match: Me (Lucas) vs Meta-Knight
Hoping for lightning to strike twice, I pick Luigi's again and lo-and-behold, he went Meta-Knight and I went Lucas. I won by a whole stock.
3rd Match: Me (Lucas) vs Game and Watch
I ban Rainbow Cruise, because he likes to go there with Game and Watch and he CPs Battlefield. I pick Lucas knowing I had no secondary to win with and I figured it'd be a lesson of learning. I camped, I played aggressive, and I spaced to the best of my ability, trying three distinct strategies with my three stocks. All failed and shut down.
3rd Set
1st Match: DK
Randomed Battlefied and it was a close match. Standing infinites are banned at the tourney and I tried my best to avoid the grab. Spammed PKFire, punished rolling and dodging with nair, and only pecked with the jab. I won.
2nd Match: DK
I ban Lylat, and he takes me to Jungle Japes. I don't know what to expect so I just camp the right and left platforms with pk fire. It works at first but he finds a way to approach and takes an early stock. I catch up each time and he is always a good percentage ahead. The high ceiling works to my avantage and I'm able to not get up-smashed. I even up the game but I fall into the water and get Klaptrapped on my last stock at ~0%. He wins.
3rd Match: DK
I think of every possible stage that I could have an advantage on. I want to avoid getting grabbed, and deal with his poor vertical recovery. I pick Brinstar and it works well. He gets an early gimp but I have the most epic comeback and in the last few seconds of the match, my dsmash keeps him from recovering for a long time on the right. DK's Up-B < Lucas D-Smash on the right. And when he tried to recover right above me, I attempt to up-smash but miss and he gets a grab to grab-release dsmash and I die. He was at 200% and I was at 100%. I made too many mistakes.
Summary:
I took on two MKs (one good, and one really really good) at Luigi's and I won. With Lucas.
Out of the 4, Game and Watch is the hardest, then Marth, then DK, then Meta-Knight. Against Marth and Game and Watch, as far as I can see, it is impossible to win on a neutral stage. PK Fire can be stopped by their aerials and they will not get punished. Game and Watch has the bucket and can nullify your recovery. Marth can out-space you and **** you up with grab to dsmash.
Of course, this is just my opinion, but I've probably played more Game and Watches and Marths than most of the Lucas board members that regularly post. I know I didn't play Lucas against Marth but I know what's reasonable what's winnable, and having played so many Marths in my region, it's just not winnable as far as I can see.
DK is fine, as long as the tournament bans standing infinites and such. The DK player I played is one of the best in our region. Really smart player and taught me a lot. I know I'm not the best Lucas and there are things I can work on. This is all based on the meta-game as of right now and how I play, and I'm confident enough to think I'm one of the better Lucases.
Edit for Knowledge and Credibility:
kramCAKEs wrote at 3:46 PM on Dec 29, 2008:
Yeah but u got me first match >_< lol, but **** lucas > mk at luigis haha too good
Bigfoot wrote at 5:00 PM on Dec 29, 2008:
yeah, that was fun, I haven't had a set that close since I played ajax, good **** man, your lucas is freakin scary. Heads up for next time, don't cp brinstar on dk. I got a little cocky at the end and almost let it slip, but that stage ***** for dk, no spiking his recovery and low blastzones for really early ko's
lil cj
Smash Lord
Thanks Cheeri Oats for posting this
it was really helpful
It was ironic that u had to brawl all of the Deadly 4...lol
But u did wat u had to do and did a great job
it was really helpful
It was ironic that u had to brawl all of the Deadly 4...lol
But u did wat u had to do and did a great job
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
i still don't think DK is all that bad. marth and Gay&Watch are riduclous though. MK is... MK
ToxiCrow
Smash Ace
i dont no anything about DK. nothing at all. i didnt even no he had an infinite on lucas.
P.S: that kid that told me he was gonna own me a few days ago is challenging me again. apparantly he's ready this time =]
P.S: that kid that told me he was gonna own me a few days ago is challenging me again. apparantly he's ready this time =]
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
uh oh i might have to add more to my sig lol
Dxt XXII
Smash Journeyman
Please ignore my stupid post on the first page. I do that a lot.
In the last tourny I went to I fought a G&W. Surprise really is a factor. Most people, especially these four, don't even fight Lucas since the matchup is so much in their favor (also that there arn't that many good lucases, but now more are coming up).
In the last tourny I went to I fought a G&W. Surprise really is a factor. Most people, especially these four, don't even fight Lucas since the matchup is so much in their favor (also that there arn't that many good lucases, but now more are coming up).
I have so much god**** experience against Marth that I find the match almost even at this point (I know, ****ing ridiculous, right?
But it's not, at and we all know that. Personally I thing that Lylat is an excellent stage to take Marth to (if an allowed neutral, which is rare) because it's extremely easy to PKT gimp him under the stage, and stage tilts **** them their recovery up pretty bad.
I don't know why I'm drawing a blank right now in how to fight Marth. I have so many videos on it. @_@
But it's not, at and we all know that. Personally I thing that Lylat is an excellent stage to take Marth to (if an allowed neutral, which is rare) because it's extremely easy to PKT gimp him under the stage, and stage tilts **** them their recovery up pretty bad.
I don't know why I'm drawing a blank right now in how to fight Marth. I have so many videos on it. @_@
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
marth sucks. MK sucks. G&W sucks. I suck. Brawl sucks.
Neon Ness
Designated Procrastinator
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 3,631
Someone's in a good mood.
Levitas
the moon
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
lol i was bored so i posted it.Someone's in a good mood.
Cheeri-Oats
Smash Lord
Reading comprehension for the lose.
If it were 1 day earlier, I'd be there.
pianodude700
Smash Journeyman
I will tell people that if you play a good DK, I have found that one of the better ways to edgeguard him is to mindgame him into spinning kong over the ledge and then punish lol. Maybe my brother is just dumb but it works on him and he's a pretty good DK. Otherwise there's not much you can do lol.
His f-tilt is ridiculous though...he can just f-tilt a PK fire and it disappears....or f-tilt anything else you do. Approach with air dodge to jab combo or nairs it's the only way O_O
I have no exp. against marth or GW. Meta sucks balls at we know it.
His f-tilt is ridiculous though...he can just f-tilt a PK fire and it disappears....or f-tilt anything else you do. Approach with air dodge to jab combo or nairs it's the only way O_O
I have no exp. against marth or GW. Meta sucks balls at we know it.
Dxt XXII
Smash Journeyman
Against MK the only time he should get close to you is on your terms, such as you luring him in.
If you just spam PK Fire against G&W, his bucket will get full and he wouldn't want to waste it untill you reach high percents. So maybe spamming PK Fire at low percents works?
If you just spam PK Fire against G&W, his bucket will get full and he wouldn't want to waste it untill you reach high percents. So maybe spamming PK Fire at low percents works?
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
if G&W buckets three pk fires, he automatically kills you.
it 0-deaths pretty much anyone, especially Lucas. they'll use it at low percents to open up a wide gap. do not spam pk fire at all.
it 0-deaths pretty much anyone, especially Lucas. they'll use it at low percents to open up a wide gap. do not spam pk fire at all.
Dxt XXII
Smash Journeyman
Ok. Just a thought.
Levitas
the moon
Let's see some activity, people. Just because the chat thread was closed, doesn't mean we don't have things to talk about.
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
This.
most talk is in the OBR, in which you still don't post. =[
actually it's really only Oats, neon and I.
Cloake
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2007
- Messages
- 26
How's that?
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
sorry i was thinking about PKT
3 pk fires kill you at 65%
if somehow they manage to bucket the explosion it kills at like 40% percent.
3 pk fires kill you at 65%
if somehow they manage to bucket the explosion it kills at like 40% percent.
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
I have a question... DO you guys consider Luigi as a "hard" matchup?
And does DDD really give you guys some trouble? He's not too bad for Sonic.
And does DDD really give you guys some trouble? He's not too bad for Sonic.
Neon Ness
Designated Procrastinator
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 3,631
Luigi and DDD aren't to bad to me. DDD'S rather large hurtbox makes nair chains easier to pull off at close range, which lead into tilt locks and a free fsmash on some occasions. Getting close is tough, though, because of goons and an annoying forward tilt. Unlike Ness, Lucas can't stall goons with a wall of Fire. Also, DDD's back air comes out quickly and is a reliable kill move. But, DDD can't really gimp Lucas too easily because of his treasure trove of recovery options. Then again, that goes for most opponents...
Luigi is tougher for Ness than Lucas, I think. Nair is more effective for dealing with Luigi's annoying aerials. Also, PK Fire/rope snake stop Cyclone approaches. Only thing is, his up tilt kills some of our approach methods as well. Edgeguarding is a chore against Luigi with Lucas...
Luigi is tougher for Ness than Lucas, I think. Nair is more effective for dealing with Luigi's annoying aerials. Also, PK Fire/rope snake stop Cyclone approaches. Only thing is, his up tilt kills some of our approach methods as well. Edgeguarding is a chore against Luigi with Lucas...
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
uhm.. yes and no.PKT fills G&W's bucket with just one time
the tail of PKT can be bucketed multiple times while you are still in control of PKT, but if he just buckets the head than it only counts as one. If the tail is bucketed ,then it's fairly weak and doesn't KO until well over 100%, but if the head is absorbed three times, then ya.. 0-death =[
ToxiCrow
Smash Ace
i just want to adress this.And does DDD really give you guys some trouble? He's not too bad for Sonic.
DDD is huge. really huge. nair away. nair to u-tilt, uair to utilt (or f-tilt. he's so large u can probably hit him with all 3)
now the only time i would say to use upsmash is in an emergency (i.e gdub) but DDD is so big he'll get caught in it.
he gets super armor, not invincibility. u can hit him with PKT and try rack up damage as he's recovery.
my favorite part of fighting DDD is whenever i reflect a Gordo. it's so great looking at my opponents face when i reflect a gordo and ko him with it.
PKF away. do it. do it all day long.
i love fighting DDD. he's one of my favorite opponents.
pianodude700
Smash Journeyman
you know what's REALLY fun?
absorbing waddle dee then seeing the look on DDD player's face when they notice that all the dmg they did on the entire last stock just vanished
lolololol
absorbing waddle dee then seeing the look on DDD player's face when they notice that all the dmg they did on the entire last stock just vanished
lolololol