The Deadly 4

[Tyr_03]

Marth isn't as bad as people act like it is. It's not an impossible matchup by far. It's just difficult. You have to space yourself well. You want a stage that gives you room to spam PK Fire when you can and gives plenty of opportunities to gimp. I personally really like Delfino Plaza for ledgewhipping, water PKT1 gimps and gay close edge kills. You just, you know...have to be better than the Marth player. Or more likely understand the matchup way better than he does.

I honestly haven't played a really good DK yet so I can't comment on that matchup.

Game and Watch is just freaking annoying to play. I almost always switch to Snake because I like the matchup way better. God, I hate that little freak.

 

[ZMan]

The Marth matchup is easy for me since almost everyone in NM picked him up at once. GAW is still hard though, a scrub GAW took me down to 1 stock in a tourny match before if thats any example of how hard GAW v Lucas is. I still won the set but inexperence hurt me. DK is fun once you learn how to control the match with utilts, fairs, ftilts, nairs, and dairs. MK just pick MK against him lol.

 

[Irsic]

Yeah, when I have to fight G&W I just play Diddy Kong instead. :\ It's just not worth it as it's not hard, it's just irritating and you have to have incredible patience during the match.

I have...played bloohaha's DK, and I won. Dunno, he said he was out of practice. I think DK is just too easy to combo, yet so deadly. It's mostly about your spacing in this matchup because you really can't let DK bair you or land a stupid fsmash.

And my biggest problem with Marth is that when he is far away he doesn't need to approach in the air at all, and he'll just power shield your PK Fires to get close with dancing blade or fair, he's such a nasty ****er. <_<

I wish Lucas' grab had some more vertical range to it, really pisses me off when it misses a character who just barely SHopped over it.

ftilt is my best friend against Marth, and I still attempt the grab release on him, just cause it can still work. <_<

Though I agree with Delfino, Tyr. Easy to get bthrow kills on that stage.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

Game and Watch

I joke a lot with my friends that all of Lucas' match ups are "run away and spam PK Fire." When asked what to do against GW, I say "run away and pray, a lot."

In response to what CJ said, we had a Lucas player at Final Smash 5 who went 1-1 with Hylian's GW in pools. Hylian also had to play him (Pierre) for a tiebreaker to get out of pools. Hylian 2-0'd him, but both games were really close. I also play UTD Zac on a regular basis, and he is a NASTY GW.

I find that I can sometimes punish the Dair with a spaced fsmash, and despite everyone else saying it's a bad idea, players get predictable w/ that key and you can Usmash that if you see it coming for a glorious low % kill. I shield grab the turtle if it's not spaced and just run away if it is. I usually roll behind the GW if they get turtle-happy. I don't even bother trying to gimp him. It's near useless. I use PKF sparingly. It's a good mixup, especially if they think "hey, they won't throw a PKF because I can bucket it."

Marth

I play against DallasPhat a lot and he's one of the best Marth's in Texas.
I also encourage him to release grab me in friendlies. Oh, and thanks Tyr for mentioning that EIDI does nothing for Lucas. I've been saying that EVER SINCE I found out about it. It will not help you here. If you are striking stages, try to get on Final, Smash, or PS1 (if that's neutral). Strike Battlefield and Yoshi's also (too small). Run away and spam PK Fire while he's onstage. If you can send him off the level with a back throw you can use PKT to rack up damage and gimp/stage spike him. Learn zap jump. You will be edgeguarded to death (literally) if you don't. If your timing and spacing is good, I think you can run under marth when he does a FH Fair.

Donkey Kong
I play against DK's every now and then. I just use PKF a lot and nair him to death if I can get inside his range. I think this matchup is exaggerated. It's not harder than Marth. I don't play any super good DK's though, so I may be wrong.

Meta Knight
I've played against Dojo in one friendly in which I go 0 to 70 on him and then he 3 stocks me. I also play w/ Infinity from time to time. It is a total nightmare. Screwing up the zap jump is like a free lost stock. I find defending myself w/ PKF very hard to do, given that he's SO quick.

I'll try to get some vids up of me playing against UTD Zac's GW and Dphat's Marth. IDK when I'll be playing Infinity again.

I know i reiterated a lot of things, but hopefully my viewpoint is useful.
And seriously, I'll get vids up soon: I get to play the deadly 4 all the time.

EDIT: @Oats: I may be going super noob here, but what exactly allowed you to wreck MKs
on Luigi's Mansion? Was it lagging stuff on the pillars or what?

 

[M-GOD]

no.
gimping G&W is hard with any character. Lucas is no exception.

I'm sorry you've must have misunderstood. I meant G&W gimps on other characters easily and Lucas has one of the hardest times fighting him.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Oh god I was doing a best of 3 tourny with my friends and one of them plays a good G&W.
I almost beat him but I tried an upsmash and was punished. It seems to easy to gimp with G&W on Lucas.

I'm sorry you've must have misunderstood. I meant G&W gimps on other characters easily and Lucas has one of the hardest times fighting him.

oh, I am sorry. You word your sentences awkwardly, so I have a hard time understanding.

 

[lil cj]

I had to bring this thread back to life...because its so important
Ive been seeing that people want to look into the DK and MK match up
because the numbers might be wrong.
After seeing NL's Lucas against M2K's MK/Bubbleman constantly beats MK and seeing how alot of people dont really have that much trouble with DK...we need to discuss the MK and DK match up more.
Also, Im thinking that just maybe Lucas is an MK counter...we can only hope

 

[Chuee]

Doubt that lucas will ever counter meta. The matchup prob isnt as bad as we think it is. Our pkf counters nado so thats one good thing. Mk has 0 projectiles so we can use PKF to keep him from approaching. Our Dair cant be punisheed by any of his movs except up-B i think.

 

[FireKirby7]

I don't have a single problem against DK, he's so easy to hit.

Spoiler

Then again it's the same thing for him. D:

Dair combos!!!

I have no idea what to do against MK though.....

 

[lil cj]

Down smash, dtilt, dair, and Pk fire work very well against MK

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

@Oats: I may be going super noob here, but what exactly allowed you to wreck MKs
on Luigi's Mansion? Was it lagging stuff on the pillars or what?

Basically. PKFire can stop Tornado and Over-B, and with proper DI and camping, you can live a lot longer than MK, especially if you tech the cieling. And if they go for a DSmash kill, tether recover on the trajectory, and you'll grab the edge immediatly. The MKs did not see it coming at all.

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

Are you sure DK and MK should be part of the Deadly 4? They really don't seem like bad matchups when you think about it. PK Fire against MK makes things a lot easier, and proper spacing and D-air works well against DK.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

They don't deserve to be a part of the "Deadly 4." There is really only a Deadly 2. Marth and the Gatch. And only one of those is a really really really bad match-up.

 

[S.D]

They are pretty bad matchups.

Winning with Lucas is hard enough already, but these guys make it harder.

G&W is ****ed he can fill his bucket completely if he chooses to gimp pkt2 recovery with his bucket

I just play Peach, try catching those turnips

MK is a very tough match vs a good player. Once they start perfect shielding your pk fire, wavebounced or not, MK is fast enough to dash in and punish you, which takes out one of your best weapons in the match.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

Basically. PKFire can stop Tornado and Over-B, and with proper DI and camping, you can live a lot longer than MK, especially if you tech the cieling. And if they go for a DSmash kill, tether recover on the trajectory, and you'll grab the edge immediatly. The MKs did not see it coming at all.

I was hoping you'd reply. Thanks for the input. Also, I think DK and MK still belong in the deadly 4, even though the matchups are exaggerated IMO.
Whether or not they have the title is kind of irrelevant though. It is clear that more discussion needs to be had on these matchups, which is the whole point anyway.

I know I promised some vids of me against the deadly 4, but I took ill that weekend the tourney was to take place. The GW I planned to play wasn't in attendance either.

</sick johns>

 

[Luur3]

DK is a surprise to me, being on the Deadly 4, but after a few fights, I can see why. His tilts are deceptively long ranged, getting too close results in a lot of punishment. Best choice is to try to stay at a distance and use Dair if you need to approach

 

[:mad:]

DK is a surprise to me, being on the Deadly 4, but after a few fights, I can see why. His tilts are deceptively long ranged, getting too close results in a lot of punishment. Best choice is to try to stay at a distance and use Dair if you need to approach

I thought the same thing, but then I played a good Lucas with DK.
Spiked him 3 times, he got 2-stocked. I was surprised with those results, we were even on Yoshi's Island.
So I tried going against a few good Donkey Kongs, and I only won 1 out of 7.
He's just THAT good.

 

[lil cj]

This is how I see it...if DK is a bad match up for MK then he definitely is for Lucas...just not as bad as 25-75
That cant be right...Marth is much tougher than DK...and Marth is 30-70
Maybe those should be switched then it might be more accurate.
DK can KO almost any character easily including Lucas...his tilts out range any move Lucas has...and He is pretty tough to KO except when he is off stage.
But the question is...why is DK a tougher match up than...lets say...King Dedede??...D3 is considered one of Lucas' easiest match ups considering he has a chain grab,has alot of range and he even has a projectile...DK only has the range, no projectile, and he is nowhere near as good as D3 IMO....yet is a tougher match up for Lucas....I have nothing on MK right now...i will later...lol

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

This is how I see it...if DK is a bad match up for MK then he definitely is for Lucas...just not as bad as 25-75
That cant be right...Marth is much tougher than DK...and Marth is 30-70
Maybe those should be switched then it might be more accurate.
DK can KO almost any character easily including Lucas...his tilts out range any move Lucas has...and He is pretty tough to KO except when he is off stage.
But the question is...why is DK a tougher match up than...lets say...King Dedede??...D3 is considered one of Lucas' easiest match ups considering he has a chain grab,has alot of range and he even has a projectile...DK only has the range, no projectile, and he is nowhere near as good as D3 IMO....yet is a tougher match up for Lucas....I have nothing on MK right now...i will later...lol

That's not how matchups work. If that was the case MK would have 100-0 on almost every char.

 

[Chuee]

This is how I see it...if DK is a bad match up for MK then he definitely is for Lucas...just not as bad as 25-75
That cant be right...Marth is much tougher than DK...and Marth is 30-70
Maybe those should be switched then it might be more accurate.
DK can KO almost any character easily including Lucas...his tilts out range any move Lucas has...and He is pretty tough to KO except when he is off stage.
But the question is...why is DK a tougher match up than...lets say...King Dedede??...D3 is considered one of Lucas' easiest match ups considering he has a chain grab,has alot of range and he even has a projectile...DK only has the range, no projectile, and he is nowhere near as good as D3 IMO....yet is a tougher match up for Lucas....I have nothing on MK right now...i will later...lol

PKF can stop his projectile plus he cant CG us. We can use PKT1 to force him to use his upB which can easily be punished by usmash. Thats why we **** D3