Data The Complete Samus Combo and String List

[Xygonn]

I think it is super tight, and I need to hit the lab to confirm, but against Robin and maybe a few other characters at high percent where zair would normally guarantee a knockdown on stage will combo into charge shot if they are pushed off stage. If anyone wants to help hit the lab on that and figure it out for characters and percents, or if someone already compiled the guaranteed zair knockdown percents, that would be a huge help.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm not sure I fully understand the setup from your brief description I think you mean when the 4th hit of well spaced z-air can produce a tech chase right? That % is identical to the "old" f-tilt percentages. Basically magic +70 will always work for any character but the true range is quite large and starts in the 80s up to the 90s depending on the target. Z-air right before the target lands from a jump is actually really solid, even very good players don't anticipate the need to tech, blam you nail them.
I was going to make a list of tech chase inducing moves, since I've found and use a pile of others that aren't mentioned in the OP still on my plate but haven't had time...

 

[E.Lopez]

Yep please post in the combo thread if you're struggling with one/many. Some are a LOT easier to connect than others keep in mind. How much time have you spent in training mode? I probably have ~80 hours and I'm far from perfect at many of them.

Alright, finally had time to play a little bit more, so here we go with my struggles with the combo table:

I'm in Training Mode against Zero Suit (magic is 31). I'm trying out the Up-tilt starters, and some are easy to pull off, but others I can't seem to figure out.

At magic -20 (ie ZSS at 11%), I don't see how it's possible to SH-triples after up-tilt. But I did see the disclaimer: "SH-triples are difficult to land with strict timing and positioning." So I figure it's just very difficult to do due to the strict window. I'm guessing you basically have to buffer your jump as soon as possible and up-air as early as possible AND position yourself just right to connect on the 2nd up-air. This might be a combo I put on hold while I learn some of the easier ones.

At magic -10 (ie ZSS at 21%), Up-tilt starter, for the same reason mentioned in the previous paragraph, I can't get FJ-triples or SH-doubles to work. Since the OP says "SH-doubles can be much easier and more practical to land than a FJ-triple." I was hoping to at least get the doubles. I also really want to get the SH-Up-air-CS, but no matter how much it looks like I'm hitting ZSS with the CS as early as possible after the Up-air, it's still not registering as a true combo. OP says "Aerial Up-air -> CS timing is VERY strict at times. To combo Samus must NOT drop in height at all in her onscreen animation, you have few frames to work with."

In your combo video on page 3 of this thread, at 3:48, aside from the up-air starter, you do up-tilt to up-air to CS. Ah, I understand, in this case Fox is around magic and you do the FJ-Up-Air-CS as opposed to the SH-Up-air-CS. So the SH version is much more difficult. Right?

For the D-air starter, I'm having trouble getting SH doubles at magic.

And when using dash attack as starter, having trouble, again, with up-air to CS at magic -15. Ah, I see in that same video that you did this against Samus (at 2:00). It's what I'm doing, just wasn't sure it registered as a true combo or not. (That's the part I'm having trouble with in Training Mode).

These Samus combos are tough! But I figure: I need to at least get familiar with knowing which combo to use at which percentage, and even if they don't true combo, I can still get some good strings. Right?

I'll keep practicing, there are many more combos I need to get familiar with.

I have no idea how much time I've spent in training mode (I've had the game since release), but I'm sure I'm nowhere close to your time, DungeonMaster!

 

[DungeonMaster]

Yep you're bang-on correct that the SH versions are all much, much harder to pull off, particularly against a thin fast-falling target like ZSS.
As of right now I don't try for any SH doubles and triples except for out of dash-attack in-game. The reason being that dash attack will always lift up high enough to position the SH u-air. There is almost always a simpler combo to execute than a SH variant, although the SH variants are the largest damage.

I can definitely get the SH triple out on ZSS at 11%, registers 40 damage on combo counter. Likewise the up-tilt triple at 21% registers 38-40 damage with 38 being more common. I just verified these right now, in case something had changed in the game physics and it hasn't. I can likewise get the 21% SH doubles to work, those are in fact easier than FJ variants on ZSS, because you don't have to clip the model while rising.
All of the dash into CS are really hard. Yes, 46 damage out of dash->u-air -> CS can be achieved on ZSS, took me 2 tries . It's just a lot of practice, really. They are always better if you can clip the edge of the model, because this puts Samus closer to them in the air. Offensive DI in the air, positioning yourself relative to the target is the major skill you're building up in training mode. So if you do up-air -> pull hard into the model, or up-air -> pull hard up it makes a significant difference.
You definitely can (and will) often get strings instead of true-combos, particularly with for-glory lag and DI variance.

I highly suggest starting on something fat and easy like Rob, D3. Then test your timing on something hard like ZSS. Once you get the combo flowing consistently on the big target, you then can aim for smaller and smaller combo window targets to test how tight your timing is.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Just gonna leave this here...?

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3c1d6c/samus_tech_footstool_combos_and_flashy_set_ups/

Don't be mean ;(

 

[DungeonMaster]

Wow NICE! If you look back through the thread some of us experimented with trying to get footstool combos with limited success, but your execution @ Jonny Westside is at another level entirely. Could you walk us through the inputs?
Definitely going into the video links section.

 

[MegaRiff]

Awesome stuff, @ Jonny Westside
Looks like I'll be labbing it up tonight. Great find! Definitely exciting.

 

[David Viran]

I'm curious if you had someone or yourself mashing AD when figuring out the true combos out of throws because AD comes out faster than the other options and the combo counter doesn't take it into consideration.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm curious if you had someone or yourself mashing AD when figuring out the true combos out of throws because AD comes out faster than the other options and the combo counter doesn't take it into consideration.

Yep, for sure, good question.
Everything is a true combo until you hit 50% and completely inescapable through AD.
Everything beyond 50% AD can be mashed out a few frames earlier than combo counter indicates, and it gets to be a bigger window as you go higher.
Some combos are super-tight, and the few frames earlier AD doesn't impact them at all. Say super-missile kill combos, mash AD all you want if I jump towards you, yer dead, even at 90+%.
Some fast fallers cannot get out of even the looser double-jump combos, like say up-tilt -> FJ -> J -> up-B even at very high %. Double jump combos are by far the most loose.
Any ground based attack will always connect, so d-air -> up-tilt/up-smash cannot be air-dodged, jumped, or in any way avoided.
Up-air is all but unavoidable out of a full jump, even quite high %. It gets dicey at the far end of the range where solely up-air would connect, particularly against low-combo window floaties.
Any follow up from an up-air is completely unavoidable. So any sort of up-air -> f-air, up-air -> n-air, etc... If you get that last hit in of up-air, the follow up is always guaranteed, even CS/d-air.

 

[AaronSMASH]

Wow! Awesome. This must have taken ages. I swear, with all of the time the smash community devotes to this game, we could cure cancer.

Smash is more important though =[)

I have to ask... I've heard from some people that training mode doesn't take into account the time at which any given character can air dodge when counting combos and as a result counts some combos as 'true' when in an actual match someone can air dodge out of it.

Is this true? Or was it at one point and has since been fixed? Or are these people just talking out of their ass? Or does it vary depending on damage% or some other factor?

If it is true, is there a way to compensate for it (such as having a friend spam dodge after hitting him) that you have found and used to compile this textbook? (Haha)

Kindly disregard this as I hadn't read the entire thread before posting and it just so happens that you more or less answered this in the post right before this one.

Herp

Derp

 

[KayJay]

Just gonna leave this here...?

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3c1d6c/samus_tech_footstool_combos_and_flashy_set_ups/

Don't be mean ;(

Sadly, the enemy can just get up or roll before the bomb hits, and to be honest no good player will just lie down and wait for getting hit by the bomb or a jab. If the bomb would hit much earlier than it would be a true footstool jab lock. It would be primary used after U-Tilt though.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Sadly, the enemy can just get up or roll before the bomb hits, and to be honest no good player will just lie down and wait for getting hit by the bomb or a jab. If the bomb would hit much earlier than it would be a true footstool jab lock. It would be primary used after U-Tilt though.

Yeah the bomb connecting isn't that crucial or required with the set ups. I just bomb because it's the only move that cancels footstool jump momentum. I use it as a break basically.

Utilizing it as a pseudo infinite is just me trying to make lemonade out of lemons. Might as well try out some stuff lol the point I was trying to make in the video was to show that there's hidden potential in her Uair.

I did this in PvP play and admittedly 8/10 times players rolled away. But that's ok because I was able to follow up with a tech chase if I reacted fast enough. Dash attack (combo starter), grab and a CS are all guaranteed follow ups.

I didn't mean to mislead, I actually stated in the video that it was meant to entertain.

 

[Hark17ball]

Yeah the bomb connecting isn't that crucial or required with the set ups. I just bomb because it's the only move that cancels footstool jump momentum. I use it as a break basically.

Utilizing it as a pseudo infinite is just me trying to make lemonade out of lemons. Might as well try out some stuff lol the point I was trying to make in the video was to show that there's hidden potential in her Uair.

I did this in PvP play and admittedly 8/10 times players rolled away. But that's ok because I was able to follow up with a tech chase if I reacted fast enough. Dash attack (combo starter), grab and a CS are all guaranteed follow ups.

I didn't mean to mislead, I actually stated in the video that it was meant to entertain.

Hey its far better than anything I can ever come up with. I severely lack creativity. Besides anything discovered could eventually lead to something down the road. Always better to have it than not.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Hey its far better than anything I can ever come up with. I severely lack creativity. Besides anything discovered could eventually lead to something down the road. Always better to have it than not.

Yes! Exactly, what I wanted to achieve New path ways to use Samus.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I definitely think you've achieved that @ Jonny Westside . Because the sourspots on up-air have NO knockback growth at all (test at 999%, it's identical) this is a tech chase from up-air at ANY percent.
It also means a potential jab lock likewise at any percent which while not guaranteed is still an option.
Can you please clarify your inputs? I'm terrible at footstool tech, and I'm struggling to achieve it on fast-fallers.
I think this may be really good on floaties actually doing some of my own experimentation. A SH-AD -> u-air on Rosalina pops her up quite high even with very few hits from u-air.

@ A AaronSMASH yeah humans are funny creatures in that we spend an enormous amount of time on trivial subjects like sports and games. However my day job is actually science, you can't do societally significant things all the time, you simply go insane, so I justify my leisure that way.
It's actually been a lot of work from a lot of people, definitely not just me, and I'm consistently surprised at the new things people are finding.
Trifroze in the mecahnics section says the hitstun cap is 42 frames out of falcon's d-throw: http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-30
I don't have solid numbers like frames or similar, just my own experimentation mashing air-dodge as listed in the previous post. I've been meaning to get some hard data on it some rainy day, while secretly hoping someone else would go to the trouble to do a careful analysis before I spend the time...

 

[Jonny Westside]

@ DungeonMaster Excuse my rudeness! x.x Okay so what I do for inputs is SH FF Uair right when she starts to spin so that I ensure the KB hitbox upon landing. When they pop up I react to where they appear and immediately consume my double jump so that I can spam jump again for the footstool. I figured that if I try ti actually time the footstool, it's too difficult to attempt. So I just mash my jumps out of the way.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Ah! That's the secret, burn the jumps. Yeah I was trying to time things, which is a virtual impossibility. Great stuff. I think after footstool the opponent cannot tech - which is really significant since we have so many combos coming out of d-air, up-tilt.

In other combo news I think I've found the most damaging true-combo in the game aside from semi-infinite gimmicks like ryu-up-tilt. I've wanted to flesh out the aerial d-air options in greater detail for a bit now and spent an hour
looking at them last night.
Weeks ago I couldn't land it, but for some reason now I can, I'm not sure if it's patch related or simply my timing/skill is better.
You can, in fact do: bomb -> rising SH d-air -> land -> FJ -> u-air -> J -> d-air -> CS. You hit them with the CS on the d-air bounce. 73% damage.
Very tiny window, 55 to 58% (-9 if you add in the bomb) on R.O.B, quite a bit bigger on fast-fallers (~15% bigger on D3). It's theory craft, for sure, but my life will not be complete without landing it just once in an actual game...

 

[MegaRiff]

So, dair to dtilt works at 10%. Managed to successfully land a true combo on Link, Fox, C.Falcon, and Bowser. Its difficult, but it's possible.

Also, SH dair has virtually no ending lag if you time the fast fall a bit late. Been messing around with this. Trying to SH dair FF across the stage, lag free.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Sorry MegaRiff, you're referencing what context? Aerial target?
Yes d-air to d-tilt is a bread and butter true combo, like up-tilt->d-tilt, first one in the d-air list. For much of the range they cannot tech it.
If you want to land the d-air combo tree more successfully my current suggestion is go for the deep d-air and eat the full landing lag (20 frames). I was hoping to make a frame by frame video of this at some point this weekend in fact. The SH d-air autocancel (i.e. 4 frames landing lag) is great, particularly retreating. Aggressively if you d-air into them even with autocancel they will be able to shield grab you, so to get the most mileage you want a rather complicated RAR SH cross-up d-air. That positions you best for combos, no shield grab.

 

[Xygonn]

On skype seniks shows falling uair (strong hit) comboing into dair offstage. That's pretty slick. I don't see it in the combo tree.

Looks like uair dj dair also works during this combo:

 

[MegaRiff]

Sorry MegaRiff, you're referencing what context? Aerial target?
Yes d-air to d-tilt is a bread and butter true combo, like up-tilt->d-tilt, first one in the d-air list. For much of the range they cannot tech it.
If you want to land the d-air combo tree more successfully my current suggestion is go for the deep d-air and eat the full landing lag (20 frames). I was hoping to make a frame by frame video of this at some point this weekend in fact. The SH d-air autocancel (i.e. 4 frames landing lag) is great, particularly retreating. Aggressively if you d-air into them even with autocancel they will be able to shield grab you, so to get the most mileage you want a rather complicated RAR SH cross-up d-air. That positions you best for combos, no shield grab.

Ok cool. Thanks for that tidbit. And it's a standing target.

But I was saying was that the combo is listed at 20% to 40%, but it's actually possible to land a true combo at 10%. It's rather difficult, and not suggested, but It's possible.

 

[MegaRiff]

On skype seniks shows falling uair (strong hit) comboing into dair offstage. That's pretty slick. I don't see it in the combo tree.

Looks like uair dj dair also works during this combo:

That second combo. Wow.

 

[DungeonMaster]

@ Xygonn Yup, it's in there. It's been in my combo video for 4 months now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pauGLVAKg#t=143
The second combo is not in the list, I literally posted about it on Tuesday, 5 posts up, you can get it to 73% with a bomb.

 

[DungeonMaster]

@ MegaRiff the range is very very large if you frame cancel the d-air, i.e. impact occurs on the same frame you would normally suffer landing lag. So very close to the ground.
I'm not surprised if you say the range is lower than what is listed - you say down to 10% on ROB?
By all means correct my percentages.

Incidentally if you guys want to lab something to add to the main thread I need the aerial intercept d-air -> follow up true combos. So if you intercept an aerial target out of a full jump, what are all possible follow ups, and likewise out of a double jump. Please use ROB as target again!
It's on my plate but I would be glad if someone wanted to lab it instead of me. You get credit in list

 

[MegaRiff]

@ DungeonMaster Just out of curiosity, why ROB?

 

[DungeonMaster]

Historical reasons, big combo window, large target, fairly heavy. The detailed list is all ROB as target in the OP, so we stick with it. With the magic numbers, you can readily translate any combo on ROB to any other cast member.

 

[Hark17ball]

You guys just keep adding more to this character...my brain is going to overload soon! Next tournament im going to have to bring a notebook to remember it all. TO THE LAB!

 

[MegaRiff]

@ DungeonMaster Ok. Confirmed dair to dtilt true combo at 10% on ROB. Extremely difficult and I wouldn't suggest it, especially online, but it is possible. I noticed dair will trip the opponent at times, which would make landing a true combo easier. I'm not sure if it's random or the way I'm hitting the target, but I made sure to get the true combo with a dair that did not trip up ROB.

 

[Tommyboa]

I never realized that Smash Bros. could become such a science. I usually just attack, dodge, and grab as I see fit. Clearly I need to memorize some of this.

 

[AaronSMASH]

As highly touted as the up-air starter seems to be in the OP, I just can't seem to manage to land the hitstun part of it on a moving target.

Is there a demonstration video or does anyone have any tips? I can't even seem to SHAD -> uair and manage to land the hitstun on a stationary target in training.

 

[Xygonn]

As highly touted as the up-air starter seems to be in the OP, I just can't seem to manage to land the hitstun part of it on a moving target.

Is there a demonstration video or does anyone have any tips? I can't even seem to SHAD -> uair and manage to land the hitstun on a stationary target in training.

SHAD uair only gives you weak hits. Can still get jab dtilt and upb combos

 

[DungeonMaster]

Hi @ A AaronSMASH the up-air starter is the trickiest of the starters to use, but it has the great advantage of being non-techable.
Here are some examples from the combo videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pauGLVAKg#t=78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pauGLVAKg#t=104
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pauGLVAKg#t=158
You can fast-fall the up-air and get the final hit combo starter but the timing is strict, in real game you're going to get it on tall targets, generally when they roll into you and you try to cover the roll with a retreating multi hit up-air.
In also has some applicability to cover standard and jump ledge getups - that's when you can get the spike. I will do bomb to cover roll -> SH up-air (no fastfall) at ledge. The multi-hit up-air is actually quite good at nailing the 2 frame vulnerability of standard get-up.
An example in practice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc4TQd5rGes#t=79

Unrelated but I have a pile of things to add to the OP and the compendium... hopefully by later this week...

 

[Scream]

Hey i gfycated the Jab to Fsmash for reference:

1
2
Showing off that it is possible to do in both ways.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Depth_ just posted that with the b-air, f-air and I'm sure we can also get n-air in the window as well. Many more kill combos!
If you believe the jumpsquat is 5 frames, and the b-air is 9 frames a standing CS is close to guaranteed as well. Particularly with the jab reverse hitbox, you would have to do a reverse CS, it would bring the initial CS hitbox out closer to the hurtbox of the target.

 

[Scream]

Yeah while i was performing all these combos i was testing that as well!

Basicly the combo counter will not give me the true combo, BUT if we get the reverse hitbox it can not be airdodged even with a 2f AD. So basicly it is a true combo. I labbed it with a friend over wifi.

I have a few more cool combos, i sent them to @ Depth_ so i guess he will post them soon

Edit:

(Upsmash sucks)

Yes that one is definitly the best looking combo in the game

As a bonus, because i hate that damn fox

 

[Depth_]

Hi @ A AaronSMASH the up-air starter is the trickiest of the starters to use, but it has the great advantage of being non-techable.
Here are some examples from the combo videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pauGLVAKg#t=78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pauGLVAKg#t=104
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pauGLVAKg#t=158
You can fast-fall the up-air and get the final hit combo starter but the timing is strict, in real game you're going to get it on tall targets, generally when they roll into you and you try to cover the roll with a retreating multi hit up-air.
In also has some applicability to cover standard and jump ledge getups - that's when you can get the spike. I will do bomb to cover roll -> SH up-air (no fastfall) at ledge. The multi-hit up-air is actually quite good at nailing the 2 frame vulnerability of standard get-up.
An example in practice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc4TQd5rGes#t=79

Unrelated but I have a pile of things to add to the OP and the compendium... hopefully by later this week...

My god... That Flaahgra and Prime 2 credits theme. 10/10.

U-air --> Jab --> B-air displays as true combo and rising b-air is 14 frames. CS is 16 frames. Sheik's airdodge has 2 frames of startup in which she is vulnerable. That taken into consideration, It's looking like Jab --> CS among many other things are guaranteed.

 

[DungeonMaster]

You have good taste in music @ Depth_ - is that seriously the first time you see that video as a forum regular? I have a lot to add to the OP, I'll make the videos a bit more prominent.

I'll include the jab->CS as true combo with caveat that it doesn't register. If you guys could lab jab->grab for completeness would be much obliged. It "may" work but there's no way to tell this short of having someone mash airdodge when and how the grab hitboxes connect.
I'll throw out my call again for someone to lab sourspots of f-tilt -> grab or other follow ups. Target may need to be aerial, to get the 4 frames of landing lag.

 

[Bercilak]

So I was in training today (vs Rob) and I stumbled upon an interesting u-tilt string that is as long as it is techable. Against Rob between 36-44% (I think) depending on rage. Utilt > SH > D-air > SH > U-air > DJ > Fully charged CS = 63%. At certain percents with the right execution it looks inescapable, even if it doesn't register as such, with the obvious exception of teching the meteors. Not sure how applicable this would be to actual gameplay, but it sure is an exciting and fun string to pull of. Worth noting it kills at the ledge as well!

 

[DungeonMaster]

@ Bercilak to be clear: you're doing a FF U-air with the final hit connection just prior to landing then DJ into the CS? I tried this a bunch of times, I could never get it to fully register on the combo counter, you're saying it's real?

 

[E-Sly]

Does dash attack to d-air string? I've down it many times which lead to a 0-Death string/combo.