Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[TMNTSSB4]

I still wish this thread was in the Competitive Discussion subforum, it sticks out like a sore thumb here in General Discussion. At least people over there would be more informed in their votes and it'd lead to more conducive discussion (I am NOT calling anybody out here, I'm just saying people who had their knees deep in competitive Smash giving their input here would give the thread more attention than it currently does). Just my two cents though.

Then people would try to give Xandercosm a ****load of infractions

 

[Xandercosm]

Then people would try to give Xandercosm a ****load of infractions

And get salty and say my opinions are all **** just because I happen to disagree with them.

I still wish this thread was in the Competitive Discussion subforum, it sticks out like a sore thumb here in General Discussion. At least people over there would be more informed in their votes and it'd lead to more conducive discussion (I am NOT calling anybody out here, I'm just saying people who had their knees deep in competitive Smash giving their input here would give the thread more attention than it currently does). Just my two cents though.

This NEEDS to happen. Please, could some mod here move this to competitive discussion? Maybe Mario & Sonic Guy ?

 

[Deleted member]

And get salty and say my opinions are all **** just because I happen to disagree with them.



This NEEDS to happen. Please, could some mod here move this to competitive discussion? Maybe Mario & Sonic Guy ?

Mario & Sonic Guy doesn't have permissions in the Competitive subforum.

Better to ask one of the people who do though.

 

[Xandercosm]

Mario & Sonic Guy doesn't have permissions in the Competitive subforum.

Better to ask one of the people who do though.

Oh. I didn't know that stopped him from moving a thread there. Well, whoever has powers there, please move this thing.

 

[Routa]

This NEEDS to happen. Please, could some mod here move this to competitive discussion? Maybe Mario & Sonic Guy ?

Trust me... You don't want that to happen...

 

[Deleted member]

Trust me... You don't want that to happen...

...Why, though?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Oh. I didn't know that stopped him from moving a thread there. Well, whoever has powers there, please move this thing.

I actually "can" move this thread to the Competitive Discussion forum, but if I do that, then I can no longer moderate it any further.

 

[Xandercosm]

I actually "can" move this thread to the Competitive Discussion forum, but if I do that, then I can no longer moderate it any further.

Please do then. That would be a godsend (just kidding, just kidding. Please don't kill me).

But, seriously, though. Please move it for the greater good of the thread.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually "can" move this thread to the Competitive Discussion forum, but if I do that, then I can no longer moderate it any further.

I'd really love if you were able to move the thread there, but I guess we should ask for others' input and see if they support the decision. It sucks you wouldn't be able to moderate the thread anymore, but I feel like other mods would take care of it.

 

[Xandercosm]

I'd really love if you were able to move the thread there, but I guess we should ask for others' input and see if they support the decision. It sucks you wouldn't be able to moderate the thread anymore, but I feel like other mods would take care of it.

I just remembered that Shaya would have moderation powers over the thread if it was moved to Competitive. Maybe this isn't such a good idea...

 

[---]

...Why, though?

http://smashboards.com/threads/overview-etiquette-and-rules.367663/

Pretty sure they'll just move this back or lock it. I don't have mod powers there anymore, but that's what I would assume based on who's in charge. IMO sending this there would be a death sentence more than anything.

I still wish this thread was in the Competitive Discussion subforum, it sticks out like a sore thumb here in General Discussion. At least people over there would be more informed in their votes and it'd lead to more conducive discussion (I am NOT calling anybody out here, I'm just saying people who had their knees deep in competitive Smash giving their input here would give the thread more attention than it currently does). Just my two cents though.

As a suggestion, you guys could restart the thread and add a new rule about expanding one's thoughts lest your vote not be counted, have stricter rules about how often you can vote, or only update it around once a month with a new thread being created each time.

As far as I can tell from having access to the BR, you guys are doing fine beyond some unnecessarily heated arguments.

 

[Deleted member]

I just remembered that Shaya would have moderation powers over the thread if it was moved to Competitive. Maybe this isn't such a good idea...

Shaya's a good mod and does his job well, I'm literally not seeing the problem here. Besides, he'd be able to nip any stupid things people do in the bud immediately.

It's probably best not to clog the thread with this type of conversation though.

EDIT: Just noticed the post above me. Good points. I guess a new thread could be made with the current results but it'd have to be up to Browny.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

A new thread would be booty...I don't want to see more complaints from certain people there

 

[Browny]

- Lucina, Falco, Littlemac, Bowser Jr
+1 Mewtwo

UPDATED

Although as expected, not too much movement this time around...

As a suggestion, you guys could restart the thread and add a new rule about expanding one's thoughts lest your vote not be counted, have stricter rules about how often you can vote, or only update it around once a month with a new thread being created each time.

As far as I can tell from having access to the BR, you guys are doing fine beyond some unnecessarily heated arguments.

I don't like it when people feel compelled to explain their reasoning, and no one should care who others vote for either. There would be no arguments if people just voted and left it at that.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Updating...

RIP Bayonetta and Duck Hunt

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Yeah, I don't think it will be too popular in the competitive subgroup, we already have a tier list discussion, and it would be locked like --- said

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I don't think it will be too popular in the competitive subgroup, we already have a tier list discussion, and it would be locked like --- said

They contrasted the Melee community tier list alongside the official one, it could work the same here but it wouldn't be allowed in the end probably.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Time for the votes!
-1
-1
-1(Inb4 radical Larry)
+1
-1( has potential, but not up there. Routa may have some input on this)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

+/
+/
+/
+/
+

All 4...without Mr.Peepers...should honestly be in tier 3 atleast(Falcon to, but he'll get there; Dark Pit counts as one because of Pit)

Duck Hunt is life

 

[Routa]

My opinion of current list.
Combine 2-3, 4-5 and 8-9 tiers.
After that the list just needs a little bit of tweaking.

 

[Xandercosm]

http://smashboards.com/threads/overview-etiquette-and-rules.367663/

Pretty sure they'll just move this back or lock it. I don't have mod powers there anymore, but that's what I would assume based on who's in charge. IMO sending this there would be a death sentence more than anything.



As a suggestion, you guys could restart the thread and add a new rule about expanding one's thoughts lest your vote not be counted, have stricter rules about how often you can vote, or only update it around once a month with a new thread being created each time.

As far as I can tell from having access to the BR, you guys are doing fine beyond some unnecessarily heated arguments.

Why does every thread that ever made in Competitive Discussion instantly get locked?

- Lucina, Falco, Littlemac, Bowser Jr
+1 Mewtwo

UPDATED

Although as expected, not too much movement this time around...



I don't like it when people feel compelled to explain their reasoning, and no one should care who others vote for either. There would be no arguments if people just voted and left it at that.

I agree.

Here are my votes:

-1
+1
+1
+1
+1

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Why does every thread that ever made in Competitive Discussion instantly get locked?



I agree.

Here are my votes:

-1
+1
+1
+1
+1

Did not expect that Sonic vote...you shocked the whole world...of one person

 

[AlphaSSB]

+
+
-
-
-

 

[Browny]

My opinion of current list.
Combine 1-2, 4-5 and 8-9 tiers.
After that the list just needs a little bit of tweaking.

If a tier ends up being empty (say for example Rosa and Sonic both get voted up or down) then the tier is deleted. Remember, this is a long process and the amount of tiers can change.

 

[Tizio Random]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

 

[Thecombosetups]

+
+
+
+
These 4 for now

 

[Bowserboy3]

For the time being...

+
+
+ (this vote was initially R.O.B., but after a few days of votes, he's got a lot of votes and should be going up, so I'm voting Lucina up, who should be a lot closer to Marth. Still find it absurd how she is occasionally considered bottom 10)
-
+ (just for clarity, I don't think she's so high up, but it's mainly just to shift her from out of that bottom 6 area, which she clearly isn't bottom 6. IMO, she should be at least where Shulk is. In a similar vein to Lucina, I find it ridiculous to believe that she is sometimes considered bottom 10, when she clearly isn't. Still not a fantastic character, but better than bottom 10.)

 

[Deleted member]

That... is actually how I perfectly envisioned the bottom 5. I like it a lot.

Anyways, here's my votes.

+1 Samus has had more metagame advancements than practically anyone else in tier 7, and should at the very best be at the top of it. Even putting that aside and taking matchup spreads into account since those are always very important when it comes to tier lists, she has a niche at high level considering she has slightly favorable/even MUs against still relevant characters like and . Her advantage state is still hella good along with her reward is whenever she has the upper hand or the stock lead, and Charge Shot dictates the pace of the match very well, and she has valid options against threatening shield, which is very important in this game, unlike most other characters in her tier. It's not an easy feat being one of the few characters to nearly take a set off ZeRo, either.

-1 I still believe Corrin is a good character with a lot of interesting tools, Ryo and Ryuga have demonstrated that greatly. I just think it's too early to him to be so high over other characters that have a more established place in the meta currently. We haven't seen Corrin at a huge national yet either, so there's still room for judgement on him. He's a balanced overall in terms of his stats and moveset, so I have no doubt he'll perform reasonably well despite his susceptibility to rushdown due to his mediocre mobility.

-1 Pikachu is a good character, but a top 5 threat he is not. He has a nifty confirm in the form of up throw to RAR thunder and has nice MUs vs the top 3, but his results have been fluctuating so much lately and I'm not seeing how he's ranked above characters like , or who all have been getting consistent and higher placements, along with bigger playerbases.

+1 R.O.B. is a solid top 20 character and I believe he should be getting more love on this list. People sleep on how great his ability to control space is thanks to Gyro, Robo Beam and disjointed aerials. He's outfitted with good KOing power in moves like up air, up smash and up throw (on platforms anyway), and his edgeguarding and punish game are scary in the hands of a top R.O.B. player. Players like 8BitMan and Holy are still putting in the work with this character and it's been shown he can perform well higher levels of play.

+1 Palutena is one of those characters where those don't know what she's capable of in tournament besides those who dedicate themselves to her. Despite her poor frame data and light weight, Pally's still outfitted with a solid aerial moveset, good mobility both on the air and ground, and the invincibility on moves like bair and dash attack are pretty awesome. Her down throw's a great combo throw that follows up into up air or neutral air, and her jab cancel (ugh it'd be so much better if her jab wasn't frame 8) allows her to get deadly setups into her KO moves.

Even her specials aren't as awful as people make them out to be besides Counter, which is genuinely terrible. Warp allows her to escape sticky situations and when ledge-canceled can make for some interesting mindgames and followups, Reflect has a long-lasting hitbox and Autoreticle even has some locking uses. Prince Ramen got 7th (a tournament with people like Mew2King, Seibrik, Ryo, Myran, MVD and DJ Jack in attendance) at Tampa Never Sleeps 6, so there's at least something that this character has to offer.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

+
+
+
+
These 4 for now

DUCK HUNT LOVE

 

[jaketheknight]

-
+
-
-
+

 

[Deleted member]

+
+
+
+
+

 

[Dusk Pit]

That... is actually how I perfectly envisioned the bottom 5. I like it a lot.

Anyways, here's my votes.

+1 Samus has had more metagame advancements than practically anyone else in tier 7, and should at the very best be at the top of it. Even putting that aside and taking matchup spreads into account since those are always very important when it comes to tier list, she has a niche at high level considering she has slightly favorable MUs against still relevant characters like and . Her advantage state is still hella good along with her reward is whenever she has the upper hand or the stock lead, and Charge Shot dictates the pace of the match very well, and she has valid options against threatening shield, which is very important in this game, unlike most other characters in her tier. It's not an easy feat being one of the few characters to nearly take a set off ZeRo, either.

-1 I still believe Corrin is a good character with a lot of interesting tools, Ryo and Ryuga have demonstrated that greatly. I just think it's too early to him to be so high over other characters that have a more established place in the meta currently. We haven't seen Corrin at a huge national yet either, so there's still room for judgement on him. He's a balanced overall in terms of his stats and moveset, so I have no doubt he'll perform reasonably well despite his susceptibility to rushdown due to his mediocre mobility.

-1 I know Pikachu is a good character, but a top 5 threat he is not. He has a nifty confirm in the form of up throw to RAR thunder and has nice MUs vs the top 3, but his results have been fluctuating so much lately and I'm not seeing how he's ranked above characters like , or who all have been getting consistent and higher placements, along with bigger playerbases.

+1 R.O.B. is a solid top 20 character and I believe he should be getting more love on this list. People sleep on how great his ability to control space is thanks to Gyro, Robo Beam and disjointed aerials. He's outfitted good KOing power in moves like up air, up smash and up throw (on platforms anyway), and his edgeguarding and punish game are scary in the hands of a top R.O.B. player. Players like 8BitMan and Holy are still putting in the work with this character and it's been shown he can higher levels of play.

+1 Palutena is one of those characters where those don't know what she's capable of in tournament besides those who dedicate themselves to her. Despite her poor frame data and light weight, Pally's still outfitted with a solid aerial moveset, good mobility both on the air and ground, and the invincibility on moves like bair and dash attack are pretty awesome. Her down throw's a great combo throw that follows up into up air or neutral air, and her jab cancel (ugh it'd be so much better if her jab wasn't frame 8) allows her to get deadly setups into her KO moves.

Even her specials aren't as awful as people make them out to be besides Counter, which is genuinely terrible. Warp allows her to escape sticky situations and when ledge-canceled can make for some interesting mindgames and followups, Reflect has a long-lasting hitbox and Autoreticle even has some locking uses. Prince Ramen got 7th (a tournament with people like Mew2King, Seibrik, Ryo, Myran, MVD and DJ Jack in attendance) at Tampa Never Sleeps 6, so there's at least something that this character has to offer.

yeah, bottom 5 looks pretty good now. Imo they should be left as they are now.

The thing with Samus and Palutena is that both of them are bad but they definitely have the tools to be somewhat decent at least. Lack of presentation hurts them a lot and now it's even worse since many palu/samus players moved to using bayonetta. Samus players also tend to exaggerate her "problems" more than they should. She is perfectly functional. Pit for example has blind spots on some of his moves (ftilt, side b), they don't always connect properly (fsmash, usmash, nair) and some animations don't match the hitboxes. Yet he isn't considered broken in any way.

 

[Xandercosm]

Did not expect that Sonic vote...you shocked the whole world...of one person

Sonic is not a top 4 character. He hasn't been since the early days of Smash 4.

-1 I know Pikachu is a good character, but a top 5 threat he is not. He has a nifty confirm in the form of up throw to RAR thunder and has nice MUs vs the top 3, but his results have been fluctuating so much lately and I'm not seeing how he's ranked above characters like , or who all have been getting consistent and higher placements, along with bigger playerbases.

I mostly agree with what you said about Pikachu. What I don't understand is why after months of being considered an incredibly good character with the best recovery in the game and an insane neutral, he still only has one rep. It's so weird and I want to know the reason right now.

 

[Deleted member]

I mostly agree with what you said about Pikachu. What I don't understand is why after months of being considered an incredibly good character with the best recovery in the game and an insane neutral, he still only has one rep. It's so weird and I want to know the reason right now.

He has a very high learning curve. Even when you get the hang of Quick Attack it's only barely scratching the surface on what you have to do as Pikachu. I'd also imagine his low damage output and poor range and turn-offs to most people, especially when the other top tiers have more to offer to them while also requiring less work to put in.

 

[apparently fuz]

He has a very high learning curve. Even when you get the hang of Quick Attack it's only barely scratching the surface on what you have to do as Pikachu. I'd also imagine his low damage output and poor range and turn-offs to most people, especially when the other top tiers have more to offer to them while also requiring less work to put in.

It may even be the fact that Pikachu is simply just a worse Sheik - there's not really much point in playing Pikachu where a character like Sheik exists, who shares the tools that inherently do the same job, but better as a collective package. The way I see it, if I am going to put my time into a combo heavy character with decent zoning tools, strong normals, a potent juggling game and a virtually ungimpable recovery, I might as well put my time into the character that does it better in terms of those particular attributes.

 

[LRodC]

+
+
+
+
+

Changed my vote.

 

[Xandercosm]

It may even be the fact that Pikachu is simply just a worse Sheik - there's not really much point in playing Pikachu where a character like Sheik exists, who shares the tools that inherently do the same job, but better as a collective package. The way I see it, if I am going to put my time into a combo heavy character with decent zoning tools, strong normals, a potent juggling game and a virtually ungimpable recovery, I might as well put my time into the character that does it better in terms of those particular attributes.

Pikachu is nothing like Sheik at all. By that logic, since Sheik does everything better than every other character, nobody would ever pick any other character than her. I feel like there must be something else preventing people from picking up Pikachu. He's a lot easier to get the hang of than people think. He also has a lot of amazing tools that no other character has. To me it's still a mystery.

 

[Zerp]

Spoiler: Ma'lumot

1:
2:
3:
4:
5:()
6:
7:
8:
9:

all get a + 1 from me, I just can't see these guys not being a tier higher, I believe their all viable, they all have good results, and their all very established in the current meta, so I think they deserve to be a bit higher.
+ 1 He's not as good as the three above, but I don't think he belongs in his tier, should be in the same one as Marth in my opinion.

 

[lbrasz44]

+
+ again, mandatory votes by myself just to move both ROB and Wario out of tier 6, where they both certainly don't belong.
+ same mentality. The character has actually shown often he is a cut above the average the past year, even if it is by a little bit. Larry's match against Void just reiterates this.
+ I agree with the notion that Samus is in no way bottom 10. Tier 6 would actually be the best home for her atm.
- Yoshi syndrome where we can observe that the character possesses tools that are really good (as in top 5 good), we can predict that the character is really good, but has practically little to show to solidify the notion that we actually know that Pikachu is really good (again, really good as in top 5).

 

[Galgatha]

woot another round of votes.

- (seriously how is he still in the top 5)?
+ (how is he in tier 6 still? Tier 5)
+ (underrated)
+
-(seriously who else besides ESAM plays him at really high levels?)