Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[finalark]

1. I love Corrin's moveset. I don't like the additional Fire Emblem representation. Fire Emblem didnt sell that well in Japan, I dont think it even sold over a million, and its not in the top 3DS sales at all...

You're getting that Japan is a much, much smaller market. For them, selling around 500K copies is the equivalent of breaking a million elsewhere.

 

[MainJPW]

About the direct...
I was done with this game before and I had almost no hype.
I'm mad anyway.... I don't care if they looks good, or worth, I want every single person who mains one of this three characters to die painfully.

You don't say that, especially not over a damn video game.

 

[ChikoLad]

You're getting that Japan is a much, much smaller market. For them, selling around 500K copies is the equivalent of breaking a million elsewhere.

Fates is specifically tailoured to the Japanese/anime fanatic/otaku market.

It's not going to do well internationally if it didn't in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

Mfw I can't buy Cloud

I was checking the character sub forum when

"Literally who wanted this"

*raises hand*

Also
got added, smily hype

 

[finalark]

Fates is specifically tailoured to the Japanese/anime fanatic/otaku market.

It's not going to do well internationally if it didn't in Japan.

According to my research it's sitting at around 400K in sales right now and it's sat at the top of the chart for a few weeks.

That's actually pretty good for Japan.

 

[Burb]

It's hilarious seeing Cloud, whose game came out on a rival's system after a fallout on N64 limitations, in All-Star mode of the year......1998?!?!?


This isn't right. FF7 was 97, and OOT was 1998, what the hell,

I think that group was the best place to put him in spite of that.

The group before it was mostly from the 16-bit era. The group they put him in was late-era SNES and N64.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

About the direct...
I was done with this game before and I had almost no hype.
I'm mad anyway.... I don't care if they looks good, or worth, I want every single person who mains one of this three characters to die painfully.
-------------------------------
This game is quite good gameplay wise. I respect and play because this.
Midgar is awesome!
I'm happy with Sheik not being hard nerfed, and I think this new characters have high tier potential.
In the end... I will play some Smash while I cry about it.
(And pay this **** options that Sakurai made with DLC)

So basically you want people to die because things didn't happen to go your way?

You sir, might as well be the definition of an ungrateful piece of trash.

...And that's putting it lightly >_>

 

[Chrono.]

About the direct...
I was done with this game before and I had almost no hype.
I'm mad anyway.... I don't care if they looks good, or worth, I want every single person who mains one of this three characters to die painfully.

Woah there you might wanna dial it down on the edge there.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Never thought I would see this back when we had the base game.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Here we go:

Eating my words in regards to the ballot. I kept telling people there would be no "ballot winner" and that there would be more than one. Wrong on both accounts.

I was right on Mii costumes, though. No Inkling. No K. Rool.

Corrin...Eh. I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan, but come on. If you wanted a Fates character, why not Azura? If you wanted that dragon stuff, Tiki. And another male default avatar character? No female amiibo? This sucks.

But Bayonetta, holy **** yes. I considered her a character I'd love to see but didn't believe stood a chance. The last DLC fighter and the only one I will definitely play.

 

[Burb]

Never thought I would see this back when we had the base game.

I don't really see what Ness and Lucas have to do with anything.

 

[Champ Gold]

The OCD is gone

.....If you delete the Mii Fighters

 

[AreJay25]

I don't really see what Ness and Lucas have to do with anything.

He's referring to the fact that Lucas is DLC.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I thought Fates sold well

Highest selling FE in japan

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

About the direct...
I was done with this game before and I had almost no hype.
I'm mad anyway.... I don't care if they looks good, or worth, I want every single person who mains one of this three characters to die painfully.
-------------------------------
This game is quite good gameplay wise. I respect and play because this.
Midgar is awesome!
I'm happy with Sheik not being hard nerfed, and I think this new characters have high tier potential.
In the end... I will play some Smash while I cry about it.
(And pay this **** options that Sakurai made with DLC)

so you want people to die becasue they chooses to main characters you don't like, I don't care i get a infraction for this but...
Go **** your self!!! I getting sick of you emotional clowns get angry that you didn't get the characters that you want and wish death on people that like these characters is vile! If you're that mad over a game then you need to get check out before playing anymore games you need to get special help!

 

[Jaedrik]

I don't care about much else from the direct, but...

Elise's localization is foxtrotting whack, yo.

My purchase of Fates depends on how hard NoA beefs it with the localization, and it looks to be going in the 'really beefed it' direction.

 

[Shroob]

Props to Warchamp7 getting these up soo fast I reckon!

 

[ChikoLad]

According to my research it's sitting at around 400K in sales right now and it's sat at the top of the chart for a few weeks.

That's actually pretty good for Japan.

It's decent and is all they need for a game like that to make a reasonable profit but it's not spectacular and it's hardly "EVERYONE KNOWS WHO CORRIN IS" level, not even close to it. It's also not even "Fates is the HOTTEST thing right now". There are plenty of other things Japan cares about more and there will certainly be plenty of other things the West cares about more (especially when Fates is coming out, Nintendo has some big Wii U titles in Spring, not to mention other systems having other games).

I really don't mind Corrin being there personally especially since they have a cool moveset, but I do think the addition was jarring in that this character is definitely not an All-Star in any sense of the word right now, and definitely poorly handled. It was plain foolish to make him the follow up to Cloud. They should have switched their reveals.

 

[finalark]

The fact that there's a fighting game that includes Mega Man, Sonic, Cloud, Ryu, Mario, Link and Pac-Man would have blown people's minds ten years ago. Christ, be grateful that Nintendo has made such an awesome game with so many seemingly impossible characters all under one roof.

People need some perspective, yo.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Here we go:

Eating my words in regards to the ballot. I kept telling people there would be no "ballot winner" and that there would be more than one. Wrong on both accounts.

I was right on Mii costumes, though. No Inkling. No K. Rool.

Corrin...Eh. I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan, but come on. If you wanted a Fates character, why not Azura? If you wanted that dragon stuff, Tiki. And another male default avatar character? No female amiibo? This sucks.

But Bayonetta, holy **** yes. I considered her a character I'd love to see but didn't believe stood a chance. The last DLC fighter and the only one I will definitely play.

This is actually pretty true. Kinda wish they would of went with the female on at least one of the avatar characters.
I mean we only really have one female Fire Emblem Rep. And she might have been an alt at one point too.

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't Lucas planned for that same thing in melee

Which didn't happen so the point is null.

Corrin was included for the same exact reason why Roy was in Melee - to drum up hype for a new FE game.

On that note, apparently the protagonist of FE Fates is half ****ing dragon. So much for trying to stay in the dark on that game.

I'm really excited for Bayo, I personally voted for Isaac from Golden Sun but I never thought he'd actually get in. I feel like most of the salt towards her inclusion comes from people who are mad that the character they voted for didn't make the cut.

I couldn't care less if no one I wanted got in. I didn't vote for characters like Inklings, Wolf, Isaac, or Rayman and don't care about them, but I would have still accepted their inclusion even if nothing that I voted for got in. But I find Corrin and Bayonetta to be terrible choices and I will not support such awful decision.

Spoiler

Bayonetta had an existent fanbase and probably did outvote characters like Wolf, Dixie, etc. She's more relevant than Isaac and K. Rool, neither of whom have been relevant to Nintendo in years, and I speak as a major K. Rool supporter and somebody who would've been happy with Isaac.

There's no evidence to suggest Bayonetta didn't win the ballot. People disregarded her chances in speculation because of her sexuality.

I know you might not have liked it or the results, but acting like there was some elaborate conspiracy is absurd. The entire fandom doesn't exist in the forumsphere. Bayonetta 2 sold respectably well enough. Some third-parties you mentioned probably aren't realistic: Note that "viability" was listed as an asterisk, meaning some characters in the top 5 might've been third parties like Banjo-Kazooie that Nintendo couldn't secure the rights too.

Calm down. Nintendo doesn't exist to cater to one person. FE Fates is popular in Japan and Bayonetta was apparently especially popular in Europe.

And please, please don't go "But it's just my opinion" when you've already thrown unnecessary shots at the Bayonetta fandom just because they came out on top.

The term "relevancy" has been twisted and turned to mean something that it isn't. Relevancy is synonymous to importance, recency is simply the state of something that is recent. I would definitely say that King K. Rool is an important character even in light of his absence. I cannot fathom how Bayonetta, the protagonist of a minor franchise that almost did not get a sequel in the first place, is more important than the main villain of the DKC series, which was a game changer with the DKC Trilogy. If we go by this Reddit poll, King K. Rool and Isaac scored over twice as much as Bayonetta. But keep in mind that poll was very early on. Characters like K. Rool, Isaac, and Snake had staying power whereas third-party newcomers like Shovel Knight and Bayonetta faded. I also have not seen any European polls indicating Bayonetta in the lead. I can't see Bayonetta breaking into the Top 5 worldwide and and I even find Top 10 to be a stretch.

As for me believing her fans spammed request to get her in, we have no indication whatsoever that there was any moderation whatsoever. Nothing to check if there was a huge amount of votes coming from the same IPs (which would indicate cheating). It isn't unreasonable to believe that there may have been fans who spammed requests regularly to get her in. I don't believe the ballot was just a publicity stunt, but it is clear it was horribly moderated.

People dismissed Bayonetta not just because of her sexuality. It is because she is a minor third-party character thst outright contradicts Sakurai's high standards on third-party. Her first game failed and Sega would not fund the sequel. Nintendo had to save the game and considering that Bayonetta 2 sold even worse, saying it did respectably well is revisionist history. Also it is worth noting that Bayonetta is exactly what I would think of a fan base that mostly exist in the forumsphere. She has very little casual appeal and hardcore appeal she does have did not translate that well to Smash.

As for Fates being popular, I won't deny that, but a sixth Fire Emblem character is extremely superflous. We already have two from Awakening and the previous three Fire Emblem characters but we didn't need a sixth right away. I would have been fine with Corrin in the next Smash game, but DLC is way too early. If we needed a 2015 character, Inklings would have been a far superior choice.

Bottom line; the last two choices stink and Bayonetta being the top ballot is doubtful. Just because I called Sakurai out (and the spammers who spammed Bayonetta in) doesn't mean I am wrong.

 

[Pokechu]

ok ngl bayonetta and corrin are suddenly 10 times cooler than the last time I posted (like 2 hours ago)

but I just wish they used the female as the default

like c'mon, now it's 3:1, it could've been 2:2 (Female WiiFit, Male Villager, Female Corrin, Male Robin)

 

[Shroob]

Which didn't happen so the point is null.
I couldn't care less if no one I wanted got in. I didn't vote for characters like Inklings, Wolf, Isaac, or Rayman and don't care about them, but I would have still accepted their inclusion even if nothing that I voted for got in. But I find Corrin and Bayonetta to be terrible choices and I will not support such awful decision.

Bayonetta had an existent fanbase and probably did outvote characters like Wolf, Dixie, etc. She's more relevant than Isaac and K. Rool, neither of whom have been relevant to Nintendo in years, and I speak as a major K. Rool supporter and somebody who would've been happy with Isaac.

There's no evidence to suggest Bayonetta didn't win the ballot. People disregarded her chances in speculation because of her sexuality.

I know you might not have liked it or the results, but acting like there was some elaborate conspiracy is absurd. The entire fandom doesn't exist in the forumsphere. Bayonetta 2 sold respectably well enough. Some third-parties you mentioned probably aren't realistic: Note that "viability" was listed as an asterisk, meaning some characters in the top 5 might've been third parties like Banjo-Kazooie that Nintendo couldn't secure the rights too.

Calm down. Nintendo doesn't exist to cater to one person. FE Fates is popular in Japan and Bayonetta was apparently especially popular in Europe.

And please, please don't go "But it's just my opinion" when you've already thrown unnecessary shots at the Bayonetta fandom just because they came out on top.

The term "relevancy" has been twisted and turned to mean something that it isn't. Relevancy is synonymous to importance, recency is simply the state of something that is recent. I would definitely say that King K. Rool is an important character even in light of his absence. I cannot fathom how Bayonetta, the protagonist of a minor franchise that almost did not get a sequel in the first place, is more important than the main villain of the DKC series, which was a game changer with the DKC Trilogy. If we go by this Reddit poll, King K. Rool and Isaac scored over twice as much as Bayonetta. But keep in mind that poll was very early on. Characters like K. Rool, Isaac, and Snake had staying power whereas third-party newcomers like Shovel Knight and Bayonetta faded. I also have not seen any European polls indicating Bayonetta in the lead. I can't see Bayonetta breaking into the Top 5 worldwide and and I even find Top 10 to be a stretch.

As for me believing her fans spammed request to get her in, we have no indication whatsoever that there was any moderation whatsoever. Nothing to check if there was a huge amount of votes coming from the same IPs (which would indicate cheating). It isn't unreasonable to believe that there may have been fans who spammed requests regularly to get her in. I don't believe the ballot was just a publicity stunt, but it is clear it was horribly moderated.

People dismissed Bayonetta not just because of her sexuality. It is because she is a minor third-party character thst outright contradicts Sakurai's hugh standards on third-party. Her first game failed and Sega would not fund the sequel. Nintendo had to save the game and considering that Bayonetta 2 sold even worse, saying it did respectably well is revisionist history. Also it is worth noting that Bayonetta is exactly what I would think of a fan base that mostly exist in the forumsphere. She has very little casual appeal and hardcore appeal she does have did not translate that well to Smash.

As for Fates being popular, I won't deny that, but a sixth Fire Emblem character is extremely superflous. We already have two from Awakening and the previous three Fire Emblem characters but we didn't need a sixth right away. I would have been fine with Corrin in the next Smash game, but DLC is way too early. If we needed a 2015 character, Inklings would have been a far superior choice.

Bottom line; the last two choices stink and Bayonetta being the top ballot is questionable. Just because I called Sakurai out (and the spammers who spammed Bayonetta in) doesn't mean I am wrong.[/QUOTE]
Technically speaking, just because you think they 'stink' doesn't mean you're wrong... or right.

 

[Warchamp7]

Props to Warchamp7 getting these up soo fast I reckon!

They're fully added on Smashboards at this point, including Premium backgrounds

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I wanted Tiki or Anna as an FE rep,
But I could never really figure out how Tiki would work since transformation characters are gone

I feel dumb for not thinking about body parts being turned into a dragon as way for a manakate to work like Corrin

Sakurai is a genuis

 

[New_Dumal]

Sorry about the overeacting.
Even if I said stupid things, I don't mean them. I don't mean them really.
Sometimes I let the salt digit for me, but at most cases is not my true feelings.
The new fire emblem character looks to be incredible (gameplay wise), one of the most interesting in the game.
Looking forward to it.
I just didn't liked the characters chosen... But you all said : In the end it's just a videogame.

 

[BluePikmin11]

No offense, but its your fault that you conformed to such fan rules in the first place that could be easily broken. @fuzzy pickles

 

[Arcanir]

I don't care about much else from the direct, but...

Elise's localization is foxtrotting whack, yo.

My purchase of Fates depends on how hard NoA beefs it with the localization, and it looks to be going in the 'really beefed it' direction.

Personally, I'm glad they changed her in that way. Elise in the Japanese version is a little girl in mentality and has no understanding of romantic love, yet you're still allowed to marry her. At least if she's aged up there's a clear understanding of consent between the two parties.

 

[finalark]

It's decent and is all they need for a game like that to make a reasonable profit but it's not spectacular and it's hardly "EVERYONE KNOWS WHO CORRIN IS" level, not even close to it. It's also not even "Fates is the HOTTEST thing right now". There are plenty of other things Japan cares about more and there will certainly be plenty of other things the West cares about more (especially when Fates is coming out, Nintendo has some big Wii U titles in Spring, not to mention other systems having other games).

Obviously Fates isn't setting the archipelago of Nihon on fire or anything, my original point was that a million copies isn't exactly mandatory for success in Japan the same way it is in NA or EU. I'm just saying its doing respectably well.

But honestly speaking, their motive for putting Corrin into the game is probably the same thing that motivated Roy and Lucas' inclusion in Melee and Brawl respectively -- to drum up hype and boost sales.

I really don't mind Corrin being there personally especially since they have a cool moveset, but I do think the addition was jarring in that this character is definitely not an All-Star in any sense of the word right now, and definitely poorly handled. It was plain foolish to make him the follow up to Cloud. They should have switched their reveals.

Yeah, I totally agree with this. It honestly feels like hamfisited way of saying, "BUY FE FATES GUYS"

 

[Chrono.]

I like how people always said that Inklings and Wolf were likely for promotional reasons.

Now we got a character that was put in for promotional reasons (among others) and people blow a gasket.

 

[Champ Gold]

I didn't mid Corrin but Robin makes him feel really redundant and Roy just makes you feel burned out when you see 6 Fire Emblem characters in the game. Triple the amount in Melee and Brawl.


That said I like the moveset of a aquatic dragon with a chainsaw sword but he's still a wannabe in my eyes

The original and the trendsetter is always better

 

[Pokechu]

I wanted Tiki or Anna as an FE rep,
But I could never really figure out how Tiki would work since transformation characters are gone

I feel dumb for not thinking about body parts being turned into a dragon as way for a manakate to work like Corrin

Sakurai is a genuis

I always figured Tiki would always be in her dragon form, because Corrin wields both swords and dragonstones while Tiki wields just dragonstones. Like in the animation each character has in the countdown, she'd transform.

 

[ChikoLad]

The fact that there's a fighting game that includes Mega Man, Sonic, Cloud, Ryu, Mario, Link and Pac-Man would have blown people's minds ten years ago. Christ, be grateful that Nintendo has made such an awesome game with so many seemingly impossible characters all under one roof.

People need some perspective, yo.

People are allowed to criticise that which they see fault in.

Really I'm just playing devil's advocate with Corrin. People are getting so defensive over him but I do get the other side. Smash has constantly billed itself as an All-Star pantheon. Corrin isn't an All-Star right now, from any possible angle. Splatoon and Inklings are at least around internationally and have been for a few months, while also making a significant cultural mark in that time. Fates has not come close to that and so Corrin has not either. And it's especially jarring to see him as a follow up to Cloud. Like I said, I think the reveals should have been switched, people wouldn't be AS upset then.

However my issue with the Direct was more that it was a 33 minute Direct that in actuality gave us barely anything in terms of brand new content, compared to another Direct that was 18 minutes long.

And while Smash 4 will certainly be a legendary game, that's only for the roster and maybe the stages and trophies and all that. But as just a game? While it's certainly great, it's less than awesome in a lot of areas. This was another thing I was hoping they could fix with content like some fun modes.

EDIT: I didn't see your other post before this one, my apologies, but some of this is still relevant I guess.

 

[Jaedrik]

Personally, I'm glad they changed her in that way. Elise in the Japanese version is a little girl in mentality and has no understanding of romantic love, yet you're still allowed to marry her. At least if she's aged up there's a clear understanding of consent between the two parties.

Making a character annoying, angry-sounding, possessive, or prideful doesn't age them. That's not a mature mindset.

 

[Firus]

I can understand why people are so upset about the DLC choices, and in fact expected it, but personally I'm fine with this. I honestly don't think there's a scenario in which I wouldn't have been happy. Wolf's return was really the only thing I specifically wanted at all, otherwise I just wanted characters who are fun to play with, and Bayonetta and Corrin both look to fall in that category. I also like that there are female alternate costumes with Corrin, though as others have expressed the male default kind of bums me out.

Granted, I have zero investment in both characters, but none of the video game characters I am invested in who aren't already in the game were ones that would've gotten in, so I was never really focusing on that.

 

[Solfiner]

Sakurai is gonna put Elma in the game to further promote Xenoblade X right?

Right Sakurai?

Please put Elma in the next game

 

[BluePikmin11]

The most shocking part about Bayonetta is that they went so far to CHANGING THE RATING to get her in.
I thought that couldn't have been done, and I agreed with @FalKoopa and many others in the RTC that its unlikely to happen.
That's mind-blowing.

Sakurai is gonna put Elma in the game to further promote Xenoblade X right?

Right Sakurai?

Please put Elma in the next game

Maybe in Xenoblade Chronicles X2.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Nothing against Fire Emblem, but I do think it's a tad ridiculous that the sole Nintendo newcomer is a second FE DLC character.

I have an even harder time believing he had anything to do with the ballot, the game only came out in the middle of the ballot for Japan and still hasn't released elsewhere. We've seen what the general consensus on new characters from Japan is (why do westerners want Inklings in Smash? That game isn't even out yet, etc) so unless every single person who bought Fates went and voted for Corrin in unison afterwards, there should be zero correlation to "fanservice." Unless Sakurai meant the other kind...

And despite what many people kept saying, it was straight up said that Bayonetta "won" the ballot. Somehow.

But the one thing that gets me is that Splatoon is huge right now, it's still relatively fresh, and Inklings have just as much moveset potential as Corrin and most likely had far more votes in the ballot. I don't want to cry Sakurai bias, but...

 

[AreJay25]

Corrin is more so disappointing to me because of the fact that he's another Fire Emblem character. Right after Roy, nonetheless.

I really couldn't care less about him being a promotional character. And besides, the moveset looks super fun, so I can give it a pass.

 

[Deleted member]

No offense, but its your fault that you conformed to such fan rules in the first place that could be easily broken. @fuzzy pickles

Considering that you yourself also conform to fan rules, I don't think you have the right to say this.