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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
Literally I’m just sitting back watching many people argue over the leak being real or fake. Personally I’m on team real knowing there’s a chance this could be an elaborate fake. I just don’t understand the point of arguing since we are literally a month and some change out so it’s not like we have a long wait before we know for sure. History has proven no one will change their stance on it until official information drops.
Yeah, main thing about this leak is it's actually made the General Discussion thread more entertaining to read seeing the Smash community put pieces together like watching a CSI episode with the plot thickening and twists galore. The story surrounding this particular leak is pretty elaborate and out there. But other than the initial, whoa look at everyone that's nuts! You realize oh seems like everything still comes down to this Smash direct we've been waiting on since Isabelle's reveal anyways.
 

Aeon Lupin

Survival of the fittest
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
913
Honestly, taking a wait and see approach is the best way to take this leak. Making hasty judgements that it's fake or real is foolish, as the debates just keep on going. Whatever new info we get from the Smash team will confirm or debunk this leak. That simple.
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,164
Location
Ireland
Literally I’m just sitting back watching many people argue over the leak being real or fake. Personally I’m on team real knowing there’s a chance this could be an elaborate fake. I just don’t understand the point of arguing since we are literally a month and some change out so it’s not like we have a long wait before we know for sure. History has proven no one will change their stance on it until official information drops.
The one good thing is that this should at least be put to rest within two weeks, whatever happens.
 

Mehdow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
226
Location
Spain
The only path to a peaceful and sane mind is the Team Hmmm. There are no worries here, just hmmm.
 
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EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
I don’t see the point in saying Nintendo is the only one that can confirm or deny it. It’s far from being that damn air tight. We’re most definitely capable of debunking it if we take the time and pay real attention to the details.

And if you’re asking why bother? I mean in the same way we always bother with Smash speculatuon, we enjoy it/we enjoy analyzing everything that comes our way.

There’s also, so much less than ESRB that this isn’t really comparable. That even had a video and was all around much better quality.
 

TheSpaceKing12

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I'm gonna provide three alternative histories to explain the grinch leak. One's that contradict the official story in several ways. The conclusion that i've personally come to will come at the bottom of this sure to be long post. History tell's us one thing, leaks tell's us another, but often times the truth is something in between. So consider this speculation into the true nature of the leak.

Story 1 - The Revenge
In this version. A man who used to work for Marina was contacted by a fellow employee via snapchat. This was a friend of the former employee. This former employee did not leave Marina on happy terms. In fact, he was fired. However he left with good friends who hated the fact that he was fired. Often times these friends would send him photos and videos of what they were working on to keep him in the loop. This was an act of courtesy on the friends part, because Marina get's more hot scoops then ACP, his current job. Marina get's contacted by Nanmco in order to print out material for an upcoming private media event sometime in novemeber that will take place in europe. Obviously they take the bet. Seeing it as the chance of a life time to get revenge, the friend sends out "leaker" a snap chat video of their current works, including smash bros. The fired workers name is in the image because the friend could have had several people he wanted to show this too, and out fired man just so happened to be apart of them. So that explains the poor blank out attempt. When it lands in the hands of the man at ACP, the person who got fired from Marina in this version of the events, he posted "lol" and "**** Nintendo" on it out of spite. Seeing that his name was blacked out and it was safe to ruin the surprise, he ran to 4chan to post the images. Hoping that Nintendo would rain hell upon Marina when the internet inevitably picked it up. However, the internet found that his name was still in the video. And thus traced him. Revealing he had experience with both Marina, and ACP. Marina deny's on the grounds of NDA to damage control, and are currently trying to find the point at which the leak started in privacy. ACP is completely innocent and the man who was fired who posted this is being honest when he says he has no connection to the leak. He didn't produce the video. He just posted it. It's not his fault it leaked. From there, this entire mess began.

This story requires a lot of assumptions. But more or less covers every corporate hole in the leak.

Story 2 - The Mastermind
In this version. The chad dorf bleaker was actually a genius level intellect individual. One who wanted to enact his magnum opus of leaks into the real world at all costs. He knew that a simple text leak wasn't going to cut it. This had to be big. BIG. The biggest hoax in smash history, in fact. One of the biggest hoaxs EVER in gaming history, in fact. He saved every penny he could. He reached out to a professional graphic artist somewhere in the world, pottentially someone at ACP. And he paid them everything to produce renders for the characters within his orignal leak, produce a new battlefield, and then build a storyline that reaches into the stratosphere. covering every single out that a human brain could comprehend. He knew that battlefield had changed. So he actually told them to redesign battlefield for the empty slot. He knew that smash fans would evaluate every detail, so he told them to put in stuff like Isaac being next to fellow AT's. He knew that people would question character placement, so he had Jigglypuff and Mii fighters moved to specific locations. As for the storyline, he privately verified with ACP, and Marina, if he could borrow the likeness of a former employee at Marina, and current employee at ACP for this. Probably waiting weeks just to verify with various levels of management. He then had the video created. Intentionally only half blanking the name, knowing that the internet would naturally hunt down this guy. He was the one who posted the image on discord, and then 4chan. This man has near genius level intellect and wanted to make a point to prove his skills.

This story assumes ever MORE then the first. But it explains the lengths someone would have to go through to fake this and have every tiny detial line up as things have.

Story 3 - The Hoax
In this version. This is a real leak. But the story is entirely wrong. What actually occurred is what is referred to as within the industry as a "controlled leak" this is when developers intentionally leave files to be datamined in their games. When trailers "mysteriously" drop months ahead of time on random youtube channels. When rosters for fighting games drop "suspiciously" on 4chan. The general thought that leaks are a detriment to hype is actually wrong. This can be proven mathematically with Monster Hunter World. It had leaked half a year earlier on 4chan that Monster Hunter PS4 was a thing. This drummed up a LOT of hype, and when the announcement came, it was met with universal acclaim. Controlled leaks are created to sasiate the tastes of the mega fans who are the ones who go out and talk about this stuff to their friends, they're the ones who make youtube videos discussing all of this producing millions of dollars worth in free advertising. That way, when the offical reveal hits, people were already invested. Nintendo has employed this tactic several times, most notably in the case of the Switch's whole reveal cycle. What this version of events proposes is that the leak was created by Nintendo, and spread by their employees on order to generate hype for next weeks smash direct. Why leak Smash? It's the biggest game they have this year, and if they want to sell 20 million consoles this quarter, they will never every single last drop of hype they can get. By extension Incinroar and Ken and box theory were all created by nintendo, so that when the big leak dropped there would be a whip lash of expectations and hype. They spread incinroar around the surface leak community to lower expectations, only to blow them out of the water drastically when the real info hits. This by extension, will translate into money. The name and all that were just stories nintendo created to accompany this.

This story assumes that Nintendo corporate convinced Sakurai to leak, which is a difficult call to make. But it is entirely plausible is Sakurai were made to understand the stakes, Assuming they were able to convince him that most people outside the super die hard community would still be surprised. Thus it was a worthy gamble.

Personally I believe we're looking at a legit leak combined with a controlled leak. Controlled in that Nintendo let Incinroar and Ken slip on purpose to drum up anti hype. And a legit leak occurred spoiling the fruits of the anti hype.
 

Mehdow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
226
Location
Spain
I don’t see the point in saying Nintendo is the only one that can confirm or deny it. It’s far from being that damn air tight. We’re most definitely capable of debunking it if we take the time and pay real attention to the details.

And if you’re asking why bother? I mean in the same way we always bother with Smash speculatuon, we enjoy it/we enjoy analyzing everything that comes our way.

There’s also, so much less than ESRB that this isn’t really comparable. That even had a video and was all around much better quality.
It's impossible to debunk it by ourselves. Even if every video game player comes and try it, it's impossible. Because it's not possible to get an objetive and real conclussion to this mistery without having the original sources involved....

The only who can say so is Nintendo as they know it by hand and the one who created the leak if it's false and they show proof files or say so.

But it's impossible for us (objetively) to know the truth 100%.... something like when everyone was talking about "no way duck hunt duo is in smash, it's just a weird Pluto" or "little mac is just Shulk photoshoped"...

As I say, only having the sources involved we can resolve this. Everything else is just guessing, we can't just stay at home launching questions and get real proof by ourselves without the original files or confirmation....

I'm 100% against telling things like "it's THIS way" but in this case we can only guess...
 
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Bobthealligator

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
600
I can believe that it's not him the one that leaked it.
I never really thought the name itself was hard evidence.

I cannot for my life believe that the leaker printed out a name, scribbled it with marker with the intention of it being found out.
Well that name was until recently why a lot of people thought it was legit and why they've gotten so much attention. So, how d'you like them apples?
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
416
I don’t see the point in saying Nintendo is the only one that can confirm or deny it. It’s far from being that damn air tight. We’re most definitely capable of debunking it if we take the time and pay real attention to the details.

And if you’re asking why bother? I mean in the same way we always bother with Smash speculatuon, we enjoy it/we enjoy analyzing everything that comes our way.

There’s also, so much less than ESRB that this isn’t really comparable. That even had a video and was all around much better quality.
Of course there is less than the ESRB leak because they literally had the entire game to rate it! A print marketing company will only have artwork to work with. Trying to compare it to ESRB is asinine.
 

Nazyrus

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,837
There is aboslutely nothing solid to be used against the leak lol. The leak is strong. Staying with Team Real here. Nothing but fanfics and opinions against it out there, nothing really that is a solid evidence against it.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
It's impossible to debunk it by ourselves. Even if every video game player comes and try it, it's impossible. Because it's not possible to get an objetive and real conclussion to this mistery without having the original sources involved....

The only who can say so is Nintendo as they know it by hand and the one who created the leak if it's false and they show proof files or say so.

But it's impossible for us (objetively) to know the truth 100%.... it's the "no way duck hunt duo is in smash, it's just a weird Pluto" or "little mac is just Shulk photoshoped".....

As I say, only having the sources involved we can resolve this. Everything else is just guessing, we can't just stay at home launching questions and get real proof by ourselves without the original files or confirmation....
100%? Sure. Give up and say, might be, might not be? Nah. We're the Smash community, we don't do that. If we did a majorly in depth analysis of one of Sakurai's tweets and made the conclusion that it was expertly designed to be a Golden Sun reference... why would be just give up that easily on a leak that could potentially confirm that same character. That makes no sense to me.

I've still not seen any evidence of his new company's connection to Bandai Namco. And at the very least to consider the leak, I really think you need that. The best they have is Ubisoft for now which means sure, they have game connections, but means nothing else.
 
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Mehdow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
226
Location
Spain
100%? Sure. Give up and say, might be, might not be? Nah. We're the Smash community, we don't do that. If we did a majorly in depth analysis of one of Sakurai's tweets and made the conclusion that it was expertly designed to be a Golden Sun reference... why would be just give up that easily on a leak that could potentially confirm that same character. That makes no sense to me.

I've still not seen any evidence of his new company's connection to Bandai Namco. And at the very least to consider the leak, I really think you need that. The best they have is Ubisoft for now which means sure, they have game connections, but means nothing else.
I get it, but for example here we can only guess what Sakurai is trying to tell us in that tweet but it's impossible for us to know exactly what does he truly mean, being isaac or not it's impossible without having the answer from the sources. The only thing we can do is guess (and the Smash community is very good at that, that's true).

As you said we can analyse it and get a conclussion but it's a conclusion by our own, we're not remotely 100% sure if that tweet is indeed Isaac or not related (I think yes of course, what else could be? but I don't have any proof)
 
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TheSpaceKing12

Banned via Warnings
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Alex Olney of Nintendo life made a video explaining why he thinks the leak is fake Most of his views were about it being too good to be true, more specifically in the surrounding story. At the end of the video he mentions sources that contradict, and invites people to message him. So I did. I tried to come off as neutral as possible. I even said I wasn't looking for specific characters. I just wanted to confirm the nature of the source. Is it someone in nintendo? Is it someone on the surface? I'm not looking for names either. I'm kind of worried he may block me, and I hate that because I honestly love his site's content. But he invited the discussion.
 

Attachments

Jupiter Ivan

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
527
As long as people don’t go at each other’s throats about it, feel free to try and debunk.

I have neither the time nor energy to attempt it myself and I take the info as I see it. So far I have every right to believe the leak is real. Until someone brings me concrete evidence to the contrary I’ll continue to believe the leak.

The issue right now is that many people on both ends of the spectrum are getting emotional over this leak. And that’s dangerous.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
Of course there is less than the ESRB leak because they literally had the entire game to rate it! A print marketing company will only have artwork to work with. Trying to compare it to ESRB is asinine.
I mean, that's kind of my point. ESRB had a ton of content to work with in terms of what was being leaked. Even if you managed to explain away some of it, there was still a mountain of evidence to work with. This leak is one picture. One. Once you start scrutinizing the details of that picture every little piece is going to count, for much, much more. People want to name this ESRB 2.0 (I agree asinine comparison, and you're not doing that directly, I'm aware). But there's so comparatively little to work with. ESRB had real inconsistencies, this has several more, worse quality, and less to work with.

Occam's razor would indeed dictate that, yes, this is real. Again, we belong to the Smash community. We're no stranger to going overboard in basically every regard, so I have zero trouble believing that someone set this big of a fake up. We just had Crunchii (or whatever his name was) lead us completely astray and then laugh in our face for running with it. Point being, we'll take anything super far, and this feels like the perfect setup for someone to laugh at the Smash community to me.

I think SourceGaming had the best point of contention consistently though, and I know hype responsibly gets a lot of hate and gets misused a lot, but do people seriously think that we five newcomers makes any real sense? That Sakurai is really playing a game with us in this long con? And if he is, what proof do we have of that?
 

Pyzlnar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
120
Location
In front of a Monitor
Well that name was until recently why a lot of people thought it was legit and why they've gotten so much attention. So, how d'you like them apples?
Yeah, but I always thought it could have been a coworker.
I don't know, but you don't label all your belongings with your name.
The fact that the name is there in the first place is a mystery to me that no one has explained yet.

Also, I'm not saying the name is completely irrelevant, it does hold some merit due to the connections. But it does not necessarily mean the leaker is the same guy with that name.

Additionally we know that regardless of who leaked it, they had access to unreleased promotional material of the grinch. So even without the name, that is good evidence of someone with access to promotional assets for different companies.

Finally even with that, the eye for detail (where it can be seen) on the poster is actually pretty big. I've said it before and this leak does have multiple things going on for it, and its connection to the industry is (or was) just one of them.

In the end I've always been on cautious team, but nothing as of yet has definitely disproved the theory as of yet.

PS: I could have done without the sass, but yeah I do like apples. :)
 
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NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
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100%? Sure. Give up and say, might be, might not be? Nah. We're the Smash community, we don't do that. If we did a majorly in depth analysis of one of Sakurai's tweets and made the conclusion that it was expertly designed to be a Golden Sun reference... why would be just give up that easily on a leak that could potentially confirm that same character. That makes no sense to me.

I've still not seen any evidence of his new company's connection to Bandai Namco. And at the very least to consider the leak, I really think you need that. The best they have is Ubisoft for now which means sure, they have game connections, but means nothing else.
Yo dude just came in to say that we literally try our best to debunk every single leak that includes our boy, idk what you're on about
 

TheBeastHimself

No time for tea, uncle, gotta capture the Avatar!
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
2,427
Location
New York
The only path to a peaceful and sane mind is the Team Hmmm. There are no worries here, just hmmm.
I'm definitely on Team Hmmm. Completely pledging to either team real or team fake would most likely just lead to arguments.
 

Arteen

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
1,627
Location
Vault
Isaac was the talk of the town for a bit after that Rathalos picture a while back.

He's now front-and-center (front-and-mid-leftish to be precise) on an huge new leak. Even if it's fake, his popularity has exploded. If he wasn't on everyone's mind before, he is this time.

Especially Nintendo.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
Yo dude just came in to say that we literally try our best to debunk every single leak that includes our boy, idk what you're on about
I'm saying the notion that people mention that we should just wait until Nintendo reveals something or wait until the leaker comes out that is on this page and the last is what I'm responding to.
 

TheSpaceKing12

Banned via Warnings
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I can't believe i'm saying this. But I just sat down and combed through all of Nintendo Treehouse live at E3. AND I CAN'T FIND THE EMPTY BATTLEFIELD!? Umm...what...

And searching "smash bros ultimate battlefield with no characters E3" gave not a single result on google. Either A, this image of the character-less battlefield is extremely rare.

Or B, someone is screwing with someone. That is a scary revelation. And If someone can source the no character battlefield, please do.
 

zferolie

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
5,002
SO for fun(because i do some insane stuff for fun) I decided I wanted to see how one could fit Incineroar into the CS screen if Vergeben was right. the only way would be to add another column to this screen that shows what the screen could look like if the leak was true.

Smash CHaracter select screen.png


It was very easy to get another row in. I just shrunk the character grid down about 3% and shifted the rows over to the left. By doing that this added 6 more character slots, which could be for those missing characters Vergeben and others are claiming are still missing(incineroar plus others but no names are given) Here is my personal wish list I did.

Smash CHaracter select screen Roster Complete.png


Reasonings behind my 6 choices: Zelda hasn't had a new rep in smash since MELEE, so it felt time for at least one. Impa makes sense as she is a staple of the series, and while I was torn I decided another villain with Skull kid works well too. Plus if Metroid could get an echo and unique, Zelda could as well. Medusa is good echo villain choice as she has Palutena's proportions, and is a sakurai creation. Ms Pac-Man because every other 3rd party is getting a new rep, so why wouldn't the co-developer not get one? Plus Ms Pac-Man is nearly as iconic and would be an easy echo to make, like Ken and Shadow. Incineroar because this is going off the idea Verge was right about that. And Shantae due to still so much cercumstancial evidence... and shes my bae.

EDIT: Also, forgot to mention, you could use this as an idea on how the screen could shift for DLC. Heck, with a little more scaling you can even get another ROW in, for 14 more characters as DLC
 
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MeatOfJustice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Chile
I can't believe i'm saying this. But I just sat down and combed through all of Nintendo Treehouse live at E3. AND I CAN'T FIND THE EMPTY BATTLEFIELD!? Umm...what...

And searching "smash bros ultimate battlefield with no characters E3" gave not a single result on google. Either A, this image of the character-less battlefield is extremely rare.

Or B, someone is screwing with someone. That is a scary revelation. And If someone can source the no character battlefield, please do.
Some people said that the image was leaked.
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
416
I think SourceGaming had the best point of contention consistently though, and I know hype responsibly gets a lot of hate and gets misused a lot, but do people seriously think that we five newcomers makes any real sense? That Sakurai is really playing a game with us in this long con? And if he is, what proof do we have of that?
“Hype responsibly” has always been a silly thing to me but then again I know people can be crazy and some of those people take things way too far.

Anyways to get back on point, every time we’ve had dedicated Smash segments we got way more than we thought we would get. E3 gave us all the past characters, introduced echoes along with Daisy and finally gave us the most controversial character request in Ridley. Then of course Sakurai gave us his usual and I mean usual lie of not to expect too many newcomers. He literally said that during Smash 4’s reveal and we got 17 characters plus custom moves, and they couldn’t reuse assets from Brawl so they did that from scratch while Ultimate is using assets from 4 so there is a big possibility that his team could make more than we expect.

Most people also thought that we might get two characters in the August direct but got five. Sakurai literally designed King K Rool’s trailer to troll us. With all that, it baffles me that people still act like Sakurai doesn’t mess with us, especially considering how he’s stated that he is making this game with the fans in mind so I have to believe his team did a lot of research into our wants plus the ballot results before planning began.
 

Organization XIII

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
2,083
I've still not seen any evidence of his new company's connection to Bandai Namco. And at the very least to consider the leak, I really think you need that. The best they have is Ubisoft for now which means sure, they have game connections, but means nothing else.
You know we actually don't need a connection to Namco or Nintendo. It would be nice but Nintendo may have contracted them and kept the deal private or the French advertising firm Nintendo uses, outsourced part of the job to this company. We may never find a definitive leak unless we have access to every contract Nintendo has. We do know that the company does marketing work for the games industry and that at least gives it a good bit of credibility that they could work on Ultimate.
 
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THE 6r

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I'm saying the notion that people mention that we should just wait until Nintendo reveals something or wait until the leaker comes out that is on this page and the last is what I'm responding to.
Do you think we've been waiting? From what I've gathered the internet has been working around the clock to figure out the validity of the image. We're all just so tired of waiting that, now that we have something to do, people are doing.
 

Delta64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
373
SO for fun(because i do some insane stuff for fun) I decided I wanted to see how one could fit Incineroar into the CS screen if Vergeben was right. the only way would be to add another column to this screen that shows what the screen could look like if the leak was true.

View attachment 171966

It was very easy to get another row in. I just shrunk the character grid down about 3% and shifted the rows over to the left. By doing that this added 6 more character slots, which could be for those missing characters Vergeben and others are claiming are still missing(incineroar plus others but no names are given)
You know, if you stack the echos, the character select will not have it's 13x6 shape. There are 8 echo fighters :ultlucina:,:ultdarkpit:,:ultdaisy:,:ultrichter:,:ultchrom:,:ultdarksamus:, Shadow and Ken. Just saying.
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
416
I can't believe i'm saying this. But I just sat down and combed through all of Nintendo Treehouse live at E3. AND I CAN'T FIND THE EMPTY BATTLEFIELD!? Umm...what...

And searching "smash bros ultimate battlefield with no characters E3" gave not a single result on google. Either A, this image of the character-less battlefield is extremely rare.

Or B, someone is screwing with someone. That is a scary revelation. And If someone can source the no character battlefield, please do.
Same!

I looked for it all last night and found nothing. I can only assume someone was at the event and took a pic of it or in a similar situation to the Chorus Kids pic someone stretched the actual battlefield image and took out the platforms to fake an image in order to debunk it. Sadly that happens.
 

TheSpaceKing12

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Same!

I looked for it all last night and found nothing. I can only assume someone was at the event and took a pic of it or in a similar situation to the Chorus Kids pic someone stretched the actual battlefield image and took out the platforms to fake an image in order to debunk it. Sadly that happens.
If that image can't be sourced, than that is a debunk for this debunking attempt. As crazy as that sounds.
 

MeatOfJustice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
493
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Chile
You know, if you stack the echos, the character select will not have it's 13x6 shape. There are 8 echo fighters :ultlucina:,:ultdarkpit:,:ultdaisy:,:ultrichter:,:ultchrom:,:ultdarksamus:, Shadow and Ken. Just saying.
With stacked echoes you would have 14x5 on the first image. The problem with this is that the intention of having the original 12 at the top would be gone.
 
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jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
416
If that image can't be sourced, than that is a debunk for this debunking attempt. As crazy as that sounds.
Sadly that’s possible. I didn’t know it was happening until about two hours ago on Twitter. Apparently someone made a pic of what they thought the Chorus Kids looked like in the leak and someone tried to take that pic and claim the leaker used it...

A lot of people are doing no actual research when trying to debunk or people are purposely trying to throw everyone off.
 

zferolie

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
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You know, if you stack the echos, the character select will not have it's 13x6 shape. There are 8 echo fighters :ultlucina:,:ultdarkpit:,:ultdaisy:,:ultrichter:,:ultchrom:,:ultdarksamus:, Shadow and Ken. Just saying.
With stacked echoes you would have 14x5 on the first image. The problem with this is that the intention of having the original 12 at the top would be gone.
Good points. I was wondering that myself about how stacking echos may look. I have a feeling if you stack the echos its not going to be a perfect rectangle, even if this is not the actual roster. It would be very hard to plan basically 2 character select screens then
 

Arteen

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I can't dig up the link right now, but I saw a video last night with the real empty battlefield. If nobody else links it, I'll dig it up tonight.
 

TheSpaceKing12

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Okay I found it. It's in day 2 of the E3 treehouse strem. Around the 4 hours 57 minutes mark. It's animated. But regardless I don't think it matters that much because the background has changed lol.
 

SonicLink125

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I'm pretty sure everyone has mentioned it before, but isn't the whole banner in the leak not a wristband but a dieline sheet for a sky tube for the Nintendo event this November?
 

Nazyrus

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1540426347084.png

One of the possible uses for the banner is already heavily implied within the leak itself, yes.
 

Chiroz

Tier Lists? Foolish...
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Same!

I looked for it all last night and found nothing. I can only assume someone was at the event and took a pic of it or in a similar situation to the Chorus Kids pic someone stretched the actual battlefield image and took out the platforms to fake an image in order to debunk it. Sadly that happens.

Except that Battlefield is extremely different to the one in game.

You know, I don’t really mind people believing or not believing what they want, but the delusions you guys put yourselves trough of “there is no valid counterpoint” and these crazy ass stories.

Let me put it to you this way. I have no arts skills, but now that I realize how the actual background was made (or at least know of a way to make it). I could create an extremely similar empty battlefield and mural in less than 1 day moving chars wherever I wanted (without the new models, I don’t know how to model).

Sure, adding all this tangential stuff like The Grinch and a Chandelier cutout would take me good amounts of creativity, time and effort, but it’s not something impossible if I am dead set on creating a story.

I might or might not make a video later explaining exactly what sold me on the empty battlefield being a recreation made by someone other than Nintendo. No, it isn’t an “update”. No, it isn’t a “simpler version”. No, it isn’t “blurriness” or “distortion”.

That empty battlefield was 100% made by someone that is not part of the actual development team and has not been given access to the actual empty battlefield and that is what to me makes this leak fake.

Unless this guy was given the job to make promotion art for Smash and was only given the mural with the characters on a 1 layer file, but instead of asking for the layered picture he instead decided it would be cooler to recreate the empty background by himself for no reason.
 
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