Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Chiroz]

Then why don’t you just show it? If you’ve already done it then get to work on that video or just post it with your points instead of wasting time arguing.

I wrote my points and gave very specific examples and things to look at. Doing a video shouldn’t be the only way necessary to get people to understand something. Actually ponting it out and saying: Take a look at section a point b should be enough if people were more open minded. The problem is people see “Very specific example of something I don’t agree with? No way am I going to take an actual objective look at it.”

But yea, I’ll get to making a video, I am just not good at it at all. I have already thrown out 40 minutes of myself speaking. Might just do it in 2-3 min sections and then paste them together. I am not experienced in this video making stuff.

 

[jweb23]

I wrote my points and gave very specific examples and things to look at. Doing a video shouldn’t be the only way necessary to get people to understand something. Actually ponting it out and saying: Take a look at section a point b should be enough if people were more open minded. The problem is people see “Very specific example of something I don’t agree with? No way am I going to take an actual objective look at it.”

But yea, I’ll get to making a video, I am just not good at it at all. I have already thrown out 40 minutes of myself speaking. Might just do it in 2-3 min sections and then paste them together. I am not experienced in this video making stuff.

Because no one takes just text seriously. That’s why Smash fans dismiss text leaks until official info makes it look credible!

You don’t have to make a video. Just post the comparison pics you have along with the work you did in photoshop to empty it of the characters and then add your informative text to explain what you did and there you go.

If it’s good then some will believe and some won’t but we will all know in a month anyways. That’s why I said I don’t understand your point of arguing when you claim to have all this work done to prove your point. Show your work!

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Let’s be real, at least 70% of the #teamfake people are people who are not getting the character they want.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd honestly say Little Mac is a better comparison for Isaac than Pit.

1) Punch Out and Golden Sun were dead/dormant until they were revived in 2009 and 2010 respectively. Besides a Wii U rerelease of Punch Out, neither have had a new game since.
2) Little Mac and Isaac were both Assist Trophies in Brawl.
3) Little Mac became a playable character in Smash 4 while Isaac was MIA (reasons unknown but he wasn't the only missing AT from Brawl).
4) Little Mac's promotion to a playable character, according to Japanese reactions, was more to do with demands from Western fans. This is similar to Isaac if exit polls for the ballot are to be believed.

On an unrelated note, if the stage count is truly 103 rather than 108, that doesn't necessarily mean a new franchise can't be added since ROB does not have his own stage, despite being playable since Brawl, and back in Melee there was no Fire Emblem stage for Marth and Roy.

Punch Out has the advantage of being a legendary retro game before being revived on a console game. That alone gave Little Mac merit over Isaac. Isaac’s franchise Golden Sun was at the moment quite damn prominent and all, but retrospectively, Little Mac made far more sense.

 

[TappyBat]

So we're leaning more towards fake it seems or are we still deadlocked? Sounds like we have a...View attachment 172000
=THE LEAK IS REAL=> <=THE LEAK IS NOT REAL=
DEBATE SCRUM START
Really though, this has been so fun to follow as most leaks die almost instantly. I honestly like having this bit of mystery and not knowing what's real or not. Its like hearing the rumors of Mew under a truck or something, its a thing we don't have much of these days.

Yay danganronpa V3! Which side is Shuichi on?

 

[Organization XIII]

If they have at least a Japanese contact somewhere, that’d do a lot towards convincing me there’s a reasonable shot that this even COULD happen.

Actually no I'm not saying it isn't important I'm saying it's doubtful anyone could find a connection because of how business contracts happen. Also, they wouldn't need a Japanese contact as Nintendo has a European division who would likely handle that.

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

Let’s be real, at least 70% of the #teamfake people are people who are not getting the character they want.

This, exactly.

 

[Delta64]

Don't know if anyone brought this up but, this leak also has the benefit of following some of the theories that I have been seeing in the Smash community (before this leak was a thing). The spoilers below contain some of these theories and how the "Grinch leak" fits them. These are still just theories so keep that in mind.

Spoiler: 1) Music Theory

No, music theory is not technically dead just because we got two songs from the same series. Music theory suggests that a music sample follows a character reveal and not the other way around. For instance, if we had gotten a music sample from Animal Crossing before the Isabelle reveal, then music theory would be dead. Looking at all of the unique characters in the leak, none of them are from a series with a music sample on the website. This would not be the case if say Skull Kid was one of the leaked characters.

Spoiler: 2) Composer Theory

Similar to music theory, composer theory has been discussed in the Isaac thread due to its connection to Isaac. Composer theory states that every music sample added to the Smash website has a different arrangement supervisor. Motoi Sakuraba, the composer for Golden Sun, has been confirmed to be making arrangements for Smash Ultimate, yet has not been featured on the Smash website. This has lead some to suggest that when Isaac is announced a new music sample (a song from Golden Sun) by Motoi Sakuraba will be added. The leak shows Isaac is in the game.

Spoiler: 3) Blog Post Theory

Some people have been keeping track of the Super Smash Blog Posts and have discovered a pattern. The pattern shows that 2-3 characters are revealed each week. Doing the math between how much time is left before the game releases and the pattern of characters, has shown that the amount of characters left to be revealed is somewhere around 6-8 characters left. For more information on this theory, watch this video. The leak has 7 characters shown in it so this lines up with Blog Post Theory.

 

[SonicLink125]

What compels me to believe it's real is the fact that the Grinch is in all of this. Of ALL characters!

At the end of the day, I'm on #TeamRealButCautiousAndReadyForItToBeProvenWrong.

 

[Xenigma]

Even as someone who would certainly like this leak to be real, I appreciate the effort of those attempting to debunk it because I'd love to know how it was faked if that's the case. To me this is definitely an Occam's razor scenario where it being real is just much simpler an explanation that what it take to prove this was faked, but if it is the latter I'd love to know how exactly it came to be.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

What compels me to believe it's real is the fact that the Grinch is in all of this. Of ALL characters!

At the end of the day, I'm on #TeamRealButCautiousAndReadyForItToBeProvenWrong.

I'm kinda curious what those on team fake have to say about the Grinch promotional artwork actually. Has anyone spoken about it being faked?

 

[Gurein]

I'm kinda curious what those on team fake have to say about the Grinch promotional artwork actually. Has anyone spoken about it being faked?

"It can technically be faked, therefore it is fake."
- Team fake

 

[iam8bit]

If all the graphics are so easy to fake, then we should see a bunch of people from Team Fake coming up with their own versions of the empty Battlefield and the banner with additional and repositioned characters sometime soon, right?

Come one guys, impress us with your Photoshop skillz.

 

[Chiroz]

Because no one takes just text seriously. That’s why Smash fans dismiss text leaks until official info makes it look credible!

You don’t have to make a video. Just post the comparison pics you have along with the work you did in photoshop to empty it of the characters and then add your informative text to explain what you did and there you go.

If it’s good then some will believe and some won’t but we will all know in a month anyways. That’s why I said I don’t understand your point of arguing when you claim to have all this work done to prove your point. Show your work!

I mean it’s not just text if I tell you: Go look at Cloud and then look at that spot on the leak. If you don’t want to even try to see if there could be some truth to my statements then you shouldn’t be saying they aren’t true without first looking into what I am telling you to look into.

It doesn’t mean you have to believe me but there’s no way you can say “that’s noe enough evidence” if you don’t even try to see if it is actually enough.


Anyways I am uploading the video. It’s 27 mins long and it’s cringy as hell, but w/e. I’ll post it unlisted here and test it with you guys, if you understand/like it I’ll then post it in general and then maybe I’ll just make it public. We’ll see

 

[Frosty Pops]

OK, so it seems that company has printed game stuff, got shown on the Banjo thread that they made Assassin creedy unity promotional stuff. We still have no idea if they worked with nintendo or Bamco.

But just think about it. If this leak is true, He is fired and sued, but not only that, The company itself is sued, and they probably lose any chance of ever getting hired again, thus going out of business.

Would an employee be such an ******* to ruin a company and leave all its workers out of a job and just laugh saying **** nintendo in their snapchat?

Uh yes there are people who have, will, and would do just that if they are sick of how they are treated at work. Or if they are just an *** in general.

 

[Chiroz]

"It can technically be faked, therefore it is fake."
- Team fake

It’s more like: it has all the tell tale signs of a fake, so it’s probably a fake.

OK, so it seems that company has printed game stuff, got shown on the Banjo thread that they made Assassin creedy unity promotional stuff. We still have no idea if they worked with nintendo or Bamco.

But just think about it. If this leak is true, He is fired and sued, but not only that, The company itself is sued, and they probably lose any chance of ever getting hired again, thus going out of business.

Would an employee be such an ******* to ruin a company and leave all its workers out of a job and just laugh saying **** nintendo in their snapchat?

To be real you won't go out of business for breaking 1 NDA, although you might lose a few clients and get sued.

To be fair, I've been told about completely secret projects by basically strangers (acquaintances) just because they are working on it (I am a game developer). Like: "Oh, lets just say I am working on X right now" from an employee at a company that makes that franchise, where X is a game that hasn't been released to the public. You have to remember it's human beings, everyone wants to vent, everyone wants to brag, leaks happen often due to the human nature of us all.

 

[Arteen]

"This roster's amazing," cried Cindy Lou Who.

"But on further reflection I don't think that it's true."

"The backgrounds are different," she confidently chided.

"This whole thing's a fake, no way you can hide it."

"I'll believe Chorus Kids or even Mach Rider."

"But Golden Sun's Isaac? No way! You're a liar!"

"What's wrong with Isaac?" questioned the Grinch, quite puzzled.

He tried to say more but was suddenly muzzled.

The Nintendo Ninjas grabbed him and took him away.

To face judgement at the hand of Reggie Fils-Aimé.

 

[Flarzo]

It’s more like: it has all the tell tale signs of a fake, so it’s probably a fake.






To be real you won't go out of business for breaking 1 NDA, although you might lose a few clients and get sued.

To be fair, I've been told about completely secret projects by basically strangers (acquaintances) just because they are working on it (I am a game developer). Like: "Oh, lets just say I am working on X right now" from an employee at a company that makes that franchise, where X is a game that hasn't been released to the public. You have to remember it's human beings, everyone wants to vent, everyone wants to brag, leaks happen often due to the human nature of us all.

Ngl I've been following your posts and I consistently see you brag about being a game developer and how you could easily recreate the mural by moving characters around yet you still have nothing to show for it.

 

[Chiroz]

Ngl I've been following your posts and I consistently see you brag about being a game developer and how you could easily recreate the mural by moving characters around yet you still have nothing to show for it.

The recreation of the mural isn’t because I am a game developer, as I’ve made very aware several times I have 0 artist skills. You think I am “bragging”, I am trying to make it clear that any of you could make something very close to the mural with the knowledge of a few photoshop tools.

I am currently uploading the video on youtube. It’s long.

 

[Flarzo]

The recreation of the mural isn’t because I am a game developer, as I’ve made very aware several times I have 0 artist skills. You think I am “bragging”, I am trying to make it clear that any of you could make something very close to the mural with the knowledge of a few photoshop tools.

I am currently uploading the video on youtube. It’s long.

Exactly, if you want to make it clear how easy it would be to recreate it in photoshop, then post of picture of a flawless recreation instead of commenting about how easy it would be to recreate.

 

[Supalji]

I feel like Isaacs trailer is gonna be as hype as banjo because I expected most of them, but banjo & isaac? Dang.. I just imagine him having a trailer with geno using their magic!

 

[Malkior7]

OK, so it seems that company has printed game stuff, got shown on the Banjo thread that they made Assassin creedy unity promotional stuff. We still have no idea if they worked with nintendo or Bamco.

Idk how it all works but is it possible that the company in question was asked via NDA agreements to keep (and this is assuming they haven't worked with either company yet) Nintendo and Bamco's names off their sites and such at least until SSBU is released? so that no one can try and look into anything. Given how secretive they like to be with Smash I wouldn't be surprised if they went through the effort of doing so.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Exactly, if you want to make it clear how easy it would be to recreate it in photoshop, then post of picture of a flawless recreation instead of commenting about how easy it would be to recreate.

There was a Bomberman fanart in the style of the mural.

Spoiler

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Exactly, if you want to make it clear how easy it would be to recreate it in photoshop, then post of picture of a flawless recreation instead of commenting about how easy it would be to recreate.

Yea and not in two weaks, if it’s so easy to toy around with a few PS tools I expect to see it fairly soon.

 

[Lonodel]

I'm not the best artist but you should get the idea

 

[Chiroz]

Exactly, if you want to make it clear how easy it would be to recreate it in photoshop, then post of picture of a flawless recreation instead of commenting about how easy it would be to recreate.

Photoshop gives you an option to "fill in the blank" with "content awareness" that makes photoshop predict how something should look when filled. It also allows you to select any shape you want and make it into it's own layer, so if you take your time and want to be super precise you can select any character pixel by pixel and make him his own layer so that then you can move him around freely around the picture.

Yea and not in two weaks, if it’s so easy to toy around with a few PS tools I expect to see it fairly soon.

I never said it wasn't time consuming. I was merely debating the argument that "you would need to be super skilled to do that!" Never did I argue that whomever did this took many hours to do this completely.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yay danganronpa V3! Which side is Shuichi on?

The more important question is which side is Kaede on?

 

[VexTheHex]

I'm kinda curious what those on team fake have to say about the Grinch promotional artwork actually. Has anyone spoken about it being faked?

I'm sorry but people make official looking artwork of characters all the time. I don't understand how this one or even the Ken icon (not the screenshot of him in the game itself, but his icon) somehow have to be real cause people can't find it on the internet yet. The leaker could of made the art themselves.

Other possibility is that the person used the leaked Grinch promo to make a fake leak as well.

One could argue that is just making theories based on how this could turn out fake... but guess what... that's just as common sense as making theories as to how it may be true.

Team Fake/Team Real is dumb. Looking at how it could be real and how it could of been faked is the best option instead of blindly accepting or rejecting it.

"It can technically be faked, therefore it is fake."
- Team fake

"I want it to be real and it's not obvious fake, so it's real."
- Team Real

You literally sound like Big Foot supporters if you want to take this outlook.

 

[?!?!?!]

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Photoshop gives you an option to "fill in the blank" with "content awareness" that makes photoshop predict how something should look when filled. It also allows you to select any shape you want and make it into it's own layer, so if you take your time and want to be super precise you can select any character pixel by pixel and make him his own layer so that then you can move him around freely around the picture.








I never said it wasn't time consuming. I was merely debating the argument that "you would need to be super skilled to do that!" Never did I argue that whomever did this took many hours to do this completely.

So you're saying you could remove all the characters and it would look exactly like the empty battlefield? If so do it I wanna see the result

 

[Chiroz]

So you're saying you could remove all the characters and it would look exactly like the empty battlefield? If so do it I wanna see the result

No, I am saying I could remove all the characters and it would have a ton of blank spaces that then I would tell photoshop to fill for me (or if I was an artist I could try to fill myself). While photoshop (or myself) wouldn't be able to fill it identically to the official background, it would be able to fill it to look "good enough", and coincidentially those spaces are exactly the ones with inconsistencies between the leak and the E3 official one. Literally every single one of those spaces has inconsistencies.

You're asking me to spend 10 hours just to prove something that is easily understandable with 1 example. I just proved it to you with Bowser Jr, and obviously you can imagine it can be done to everyone on the picture.

 

[ferioku]

View attachment 172034
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Photoshop gives you an option to "fill in the blank" with "content awareness" that makes photoshop predict how something should look when filled. It also allows you to select any shape you want and make it into it's own layer, so if you take your time and want to be super precise you can select any character pixel by pixel and make him his own layer so that then you can move him around freely around the picture.








I never said it wasn't time consuming. I was merely debating the argument that "you would need to be super skilled to do that!" Never did I argue that whomever did this took many hours to do this completely.

Let's play devil's advocate and say this leak turned put to be true. What would you then say?

Keep in mind, I never said its either and don't support either side(have to keep repeating myself).

 

[tveye]

So you're saying you could remove all the characters and it would look exactly like the empty battlefield? If so do it I wanna see the result

I don't think that's really necessary. He's just saying that it IS possible to someone with talent in Photoshop. That being said, there are areas on the mural that would be more difficult to recreate and characters that would be harder to convincingly move.
I'm not 100% believing this leak, but I see more going for it than against.

 

[Chiroz]

https://youtu.be/fzc_E_mFq2k
https://youtu.be/HpXmqvIEdzY

Had to divide video into 2 sections. Please just look at it with an open mind and look for objective arguments. Forgive me for my lack of professionalism or video editing, I don't know how to do that kind of stuff. Also I know one of my biggest faults as a person is that I over explain and talk too much in general, which I kind of do in the video.

Also I think I forgot to talk about the autofill on the video, lmao. I don't remember but that's because it's not even as important as the other stuff I talk about.

 

[?!?!?!]

I don't think that's really necessary. He's just saying that it IS possible to someone with talent in Photoshop. That being said, there are areas on the mural that would be more difficult to recreate and characters that would be harder to convincingly move.
I'm not 100% believing this leak, but I see more going for it than against.

That's what I'm saying, his examples were clearly easier spots to remove. I'm just saying that doing something such as removing ALL of them and showing the result would be a more convincing way for me to agree with his point. Obviously not expecting that to happen as its not worth the effort but yeah

 

[Chiroz]

Let's play devil's advocate and say this leak turned put to be true. What would you then say?

Keep in mind, I never said its either and don't support either side(have to keep repeating myself).

I would be extremely curious as to why Nintendo decided to specifically change exactly all those spots on the background that the characters are blocking while leaving everything else exactly the same. If it doesn't change anything in the final product (as the characters are blocking it anyways) why even go through the trouble of changing it? What's more, if you're going to go through the trouble of updating your background, why not also change the parts that are actually visible? It makes very little sense.

Then again, if the box theory holds true (which I don't believe in) I would also be extremely curious as to why they decided to do 9 on one side and 9 on another but do 6x6 square grid. Like if you wanted all OG8 on one side, why not just have the first 36 on one side? If you wanted half of each game's roster on one side (half of 64, half of Melee, etc), why not change it from a 6x6 grid to something that allows you to do that more easily like a 4x9 or something with the OG8 all on one side. But in the Box theory's defense at least, this illogical pattern wouldn't require a ton of amount of unnecessary work (as opposed to if the leak holds true).

If you want me to come to this thread and apologize or such, I would be very glad to do so. I would be extremely happy to have Banjo and Isaac in the game. Isaac is literally top 3 most wanted since Brawl speculation days back in 2007, my top 1 most wanted for this game (if I don't count impossible characters such as Goku, yea I want Goku, so what?). It's not like I am trying to make this leak fake. I am merely pointing out things that are just too coincidental to not be facts.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

The one thing I hate most about this is people trying to change each other’s minds.

We get it, guys. Don’t let this turn into a cycle of vitriol. That’s the last thing we need.

If you believe it, believe it, but remain cautious.

If you don’t believe it, don’t believe it, but don’t force believers to not believe it.

No one is going to change their minds. Trying to is only gonna spark a hate war.

If we can’t keep the discussion civil we might as well not have the discussion at all.

 

[Frosty Pops]

The only path to a peaceful and sane mind is the Team Hmmm. There are no worries here, just hmmm.

Hmmm I am picturing an animal planet scenario. "Watch as teamfake stalks up behind teamreal who is to busy drooling over the leak to sense the danger!" (Wow I have weird thoughts...maybe I shouldn't post them for everyone to read?)

I am not taking sides on this, it is awesome if it is real, but if not I am mentally prepared for it. Let's just hope that if it is fake that people are not overly disappointed if the actual final roster is...nowhere near the leak level of hype.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Artsy Omni did a comparison on YouTube between the empty battlefiled from E3 and the one used in the leak pointing at weird inconsistencies. Not really good for the leak’s credibility if you ask me.

 

[ferioku]

I would be extremely curious as to why Nintendo decided to specifically change exactly all those spots on the background that the characters are blocking while leaving everything else exactly the same. If it doesn't change anything in the final product (as the characters are blocking it anyways) why even go through the trouble of changing it? What's more, if you're going to go through the trouble of updating your background, why not also change the parts that are actually visible? It makes very little sense.

Then again, if the box theory holds true (which I don't believe in) I would also be extremely curious as to why they decided to do 9 on one side and 9 on another but do 6x6 square grid. Like if you wanted all OG8 on one side, why not just have the first 36 on one side? If you wanted half of each game's roster on one side (half of 64, half of Melee, etc), why not change it from a 6x6 grid to something that allows you to do that more easily like a 4x9 or something with the OG8 all on one side.

If you want me to come to this thread and apologize or such, I would be very glad to do so. I would be extremely happy to have Banjo and Isaac in the game. Isaac is literally top 3 most wanted since Brawl speculation days back in 2007, my top 1 most wanted for this game (if I don't count impossible characters such as Goku, yea I want Goku, so what?). It's not like I am trying to make this leak fake. I am merely pointing out things that are just too coincidental to not be facts.

Understandable - I apologize for my tone in the other comment. My point will still stand, I will not believe or listen to ANY leaks until we get viable, definite proof. I'm tired of being let down. I can literally see Sakurai throwing Isaac back into the garbage again, it's nothing new... I'm sick of leaks tbh, sick to the point where my confidence in the characters I want drop....

Obviously I would be over the moon if this leak was real or if Isaac is in the game but I'm still holding on to that cliff hoping for someone to just pull me up T_T....

 

[Chiroz]

Yea, I am watching my video and I forgot to mention the autofill stuff. I will probably edit it and add that before I share it on other places, lol.

Understandable - I apologize for my tone in the other comment. My point will still stand, I will not believe or listen to ANY leaks until we get viable, definite proof. I'm tired of being let down. I can literally see Sakurai throwing Isaac back into the garbage again, it's nothing new... I'm sick of leaks tbh, sick to the point where my confidence in the characters I want drop....

Obviously I would be over the moon if this leak was real or if Isaac is in the game but I'm still holding on to that cliff hoping for someone to just pull me up T_T....

It's cool, if you want you can watch the videos where I move Diddy Kong around and explain why I believe the mural in the leak is fake.