Whats wrong with hazards? I mean I'm legitimately asking.
This whole process of stage legality is meant to limit the players from fighting the stage more than each other. Stage hazards are viewed similarly to items, since their random and sometimes extremely chaotic elements provide unfair advantage to the player in the right place at the right time. This has little to do with skill, which is why a competitive environment calls for stage limitation.
I don't have access to the game yet so I can't offer much in the way of testing. But the find me stage was written off because it has a hazzard? From what I saw you can shoot the ultimate ghost with a lazer and he will go back into the background. If he does hit you or attack you it isn't enough to outright kill you even at high percentages.
It might be a good idea to compare stage hazards to the likes of Yellow Devil when considering their viability. Yellow Devil signals his entry to the stage, has a set pattern of movement and attacks, and doesn't offer one player a set advantage over the other. What damage he does do is also minimal, easily avoided, and extremely temporary. His biggest intrusion, his explosion, can only be activated by the fighters.
Dark Emperor is a bit more random, a bit more lethal, and a bit more unfair in general. He not only fights but also grants status boosts to fighters based on their color. More often than not, his appearance will detract the players' attention from one another. For that reason alone, a ban on this stage is justified. The platform arrangement of this stage really doesn't offer much that can't be found in its Final Destination counterpart, anyway. In fact, its second and slightly higher platform could prompt camping issues.
Air camping? Is this really an issue in this game? there is no more glide. All of the big stalls got hit very hard, wario falls faster and get much less out of his bike and has to commit much more to the direction he is moving in the air. MK's tornado is dead.
Air-camping won't be an issue in this game, but circle-camping can cause issues in any Smash game due to its platforming nature. People are worried about Guar Plains and Tomodachi Life not because you can stall in the air, but because their circular stage design could potentially allow fighters to run around in circles, stalling the game. Stall tactics are completely legitimate in the competitive scene, but only if its success is not guaranteed. This means that the opponent should be able to disrupt their stalling tactics to a reasonable degree. If you can't catch up to a fighter running in a constant circle, what's stopping that fighter from starting the match by jabbing you for 2% and then stalling out the rest of the match? That type of play cannot help our community grow.
Why is spirit tracks bad? Why is Gerudo bad? Just losely comparing these stages to old ones isn't enough. I am not a huge fan of Sprit tracks, but... is that enough of a reason to ban it? I really like Gerudo Valley, but is that a reason it should stay?
This thread and similar discussions exist to ensure we don't base our rules and setups based on individual opinions. It's a collective effort, and that's why we're taking the time to argue in the first place. The Smash community has always been fantastic about this in the past. Once the pros and cons and this and that have been hashed out, we usually see a singular rule set used nationwide.
I'd be surprised if either Spirit Tracks or Gerudo Valley see legality. Both have very, very disruptive stage hazards and both take away emphasis on recovery. Spirit Tracks has rotating cars, exploding cars, and a damaging/killing floor. Gerudo has walk-offs, a pit with spikes and changing blast zones, and witches that set half the stage on fire or ice. It's a very cool stage, granted, but it doesn't have a place in tournament play.
We have to ask ourselves what do we as a community want from our stage lists? No stage hazards and no random elements? No walk offs? FD only? And THEN we need to answer why are we choosing this path and what whether what we gain is worth what we lose. (P.S. I think we should get rid of neutrals and counter picks. there are no neutral stages...)
Primarily, we want our stages to fulfill either of two roles: to provide a starting ground that is as fair to both fighters as possible; or to provide an environment that slightly favors one fighter over the other. Stages that match the former become our starters, and those that match the latter become our counterpicks. It is important to have both kinds of stages in a tournament setting. Otherwise, there's potential that one fighter may have advantage in a set right off the bat, and that hinders the tournament's ability to determine skill.
Personally I feel the wider the stage list the more appeal the game will have to a wider group of people (I.E. spectators). For YEARS competitive melee WAS played on Mute city and brinstar and a plethra of random stage hazard levels. We went to MLG with these stage lists. And Top players were STILL top players their wins weren't swiped away by randoms who were letting the stage win. I don't think narrowing down the stage list to flat stages with platforms offers enough variety to millions of people; these potential new competitive players and viewers; who buy the game for these crazy stages.
A larger stage roster doesn't necessarily mean a larger audience. Spectators aren't interested in how well a professional player can maneuver around stage obstacles. They're interested in the contest between two highly skilled individuals. If a stage distracts from that contest, we would see less interest in the scene. Remember that it's not our goal to market to as much people as possible. We are a competitive community first and foremost. Sure, we can play the game for casual fun like anyone else, but when it comes to discussions and decisions such as these, it's important to maintain a mindset of competition.
