SSB4: Custom Moves Tourney Legal? Poll & Discuss

[TTYK]

being able to choose custom moves is too much work. Do you get to counterpick them? when do you have to announce them? or do you have to announce them at all?

There's no way they will be legal, unless they become parts of tournament standard movesets to balance characters.

Not sure why people are even discussing the possibility of equipment lmao. Fighting games should be... as vanilla as possible. Variation is bad. Consistency is good.

Melee guy, eh?

 

[TTYK]

So considering that most of the custom moves have a weakness for every advantage shouldn't they be legal? I mean melee was unbalanced as balls but we (well at least me) still played the balls out of it.
Whats your take on the badges i would think they are okay too since
power and speed decreases defense.
Also should mii fighters be allowed?

I think that Mii Fighters and equipment should be banned. Like the Mii's are so freakin op, and they have more kill moves than I have fingers and toes.

 

[Genocyde]

Miis are stupid.

No custom moves being legal means people will just end up playing the same garbage game from six years ago.

 

[WinterShorts]

I'd think we would turn on custom moves in a special tournament, but I'd assume no equipment allowed at all.

 

[OracleFish]

• Too much variety
• Too difficult to learn
• Too many matchups
• Too different from previous games
• Might be unbalanced
• Most must be unlocked

These are all great reasons why all the new characters in this game should be banned from competitive play.

Why stop at custom moves? All these given reasons still hold.

There are 49 playable characters. There are over 1000 possible move combinations in the game. 49 is possible and reasonable to get familiar with. More than 1000 is not. Custom moves transform the game from a fast-paced fighting game into a "which custom moves should I counter-pick to beat his play style?" game. There's literally no possible way to be prepared for every combination of move sets.

In most fighting games, you can go into a match with a general idea of what you're up against. Good luck memorizing every possible move set combination on every character.

I'm not a fan of the custom moves, and I think they're a terrible idea if you want balanced competitive play. However - whatever floats your boat.

 

[OracleFish]

Accidentally double posted - ignore this post

 

[Dagon97]

Certain custom moves should be banned if certain custom moves appear to be overpowered.

Players should have 1 Minute each to select their custom moves. (Just in case you are tight on time)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Most are just alternatives of moves you should know anyways.

there are 12 possible moves, but in turn 36 possible combinations. This is a very good for promoting diversity and adding a lot of depth to the game.

 

[Timmay08]

I feel that we should take advantage of the diversity here in the new game. Customisations can spice up the game more in my opinion.

 

[Thinkaman]

Most are just alternatives of moves you should know anyways.

there are 12 possible moves, but in turn 36 possible combinations. This is a very good for promoting diversity and adding a lot of depth to the game.

I'm gonna nit-pick here.


First, it's 81 combinations (3^4). However, this is a misleading figure. Unlike say aerials, very few specials in Smash movesets have any direct interactions.

Combinations are irrelevant. Mario's fast fireball doesn't have to be "re-learned" when he uses it alongside a different FLUDD. They have nothing to do with each other. Anyone who tries to honestly tell you that they are 81 uniquely different Marios can't be taken seriously--never mind that there will only be 1 or 2 optimal setups for most characters in high-level 1v1 play anyway!


Second, adding options adds breadth, not depth to a game. In fact, normally breadth comes at the cost of depth, though that isn't the case here because the choices are exclusive and locked-in before the match. (Similarly, adding characters also increases breadth without impacting depth.)

It is possible for customs to restore depth to some skewed matchups though, where things were slightly degenerate before. For example, Ganondorf against projectile users, or Rosalina against people whose default projectiles get eaten by Luma.


While it is still too early to make meaningful claims about the game's balance (besides that it is at least pretty decent), it's increasingly safe to say that custom moves do have a positive impact on character balance. This was pretty predictable, but it's nice to see it in practice.

 

[TTYK]

There are 49 playable characters. There are over 1000 possible move combinations in the game. 49 is possible and reasonable to get familiar with. More than 1000 is not. Custom moves transform the game from a fast-paced fighting game into a "which custom moves should I counter-pick to beat his play style?" game. There's literally no possible way to be prepared for every combination of move sets.

In most fighting games, you can go into a match with a general idea of what you're up against. Good luck memorizing every possible move set combination on every character.

I'm not a fan of the custom moves, and I think they're a terrible idea if you want balanced competitive play. However - whatever floats your boat.

I guess you really suck at Pokemon then, huh?

 

[OracleFish]

I guess you really suck at Pokemon then, huh?

Yes. Yes I do haha. Different kind of game completely, though.

 

[TTYK]

Yes. Yes I do haha. Different kind of game completely, though.

Not really, I have 5 years in competitive pokemon and there are an extremely vast amount of variety you need to know about. For smeargle alone you have to prepare for 559 moves he can use alone. Combine that with all the possibilities and you got 312481 different sets you must adapt to.

EDIT: I did the math wrong it is actually 97,644,375,361 (97 billion lmao)

 

[UltiMario]

Just playing all I've found is that the obviously bad characters have great custom moves (mostly upgrades) and all the obviously good ones have terrible customs (almost always straight downgrades). This seems pretty much intentional.

Except Falco. He's bad and his customs are terrible. Poor Falco.



What is comes down to though is that this game is pretty obviously going to be more balanced with customs on than off. It's really hard to adjust to (I currently still don't like them because of how wonky some of the good customs are) but in the end it's probly the best for the game if we have customs on.

Also @ TTYK as a comp Pokes player its really not fair to compare it and Smash for custom moves.

 

[Galgatha]

Personally I believe that custom special moves should be allowed. However to negate the whole "trying to counter this guy" talk that seems to have been brought up against them, then you have players register for the tourney, that HAVE to register WHAT custom move set that will be using and are locked into that custom move set for that character for the entire tourney.

I was thinking for singles, you register up to 3 characters, and then register what custom move set you will be using with each character. Problem solved

 

[Thinkaman]

Personally I believe that custom special moves should be allowed. However to negate the whole "trying to counter this guy" talk that seems to have been brought up against them, then you have players register for the tourney, that HAVE to register WHAT custom move set that will be using and are locked into that custom move set for that character for the entire tourney.

I was thinking for singles, you register up to 3 characters, and then register what custom move set you will be using with each character. Problem solved

Why is picking customs on a per matchup basis remotely a bad? Why would we ever force people to play as the same pre-registered character(s) for a set, much less an entire tourney?

 

[Galgatha]

I wront that because everybody against the custom moves claims that it'll be to difficult and too confusing (basically) so I figured that that would be the best inbetween. That way you know what to expect after awhile. Also picking the custom moves per match would just be way to time consuming.

 

[Thinkaman]

I wront that because everybody against the custom moves claims that it'll be to difficult and too confusing (basically) so I figured that that would be the best inbetween. That way you know what to expect after awhile. Also picking the custom moves per match would just be way to time consuming.

Picking custom moves from a set takes the same amount of time as changing characters. Most characters and players, after all, will be using the same 2 or 3 sets.

Creating a fresh set from scratch takes a little less than 10 seconds--I just timed it.

 

[TTYK]

Just playing all I've found is that the obviously bad characters have great custom moves (mostly upgrades) and all the obviously good ones have terrible customs (almost always straight downgrades). This seems pretty much intentional.

Except Falco. He's bad and his customs are terrible. Poor Falco.



What is comes down to though is that this game is pretty obviously going to be more balanced with customs on than off. It's really hard to adjust to (I currently still don't like them because of how wonky some of the good customs are) but in the end it's probly the best for the game if we have customs on.

Also @ TTYK as a comp Pokes player its really not fair to compare it and Smash for custom moves.

I am just saying, you dont really prepare for every possible thing in OU, you just adapt to it as it comes.

 

[Galgatha]

I just believe that custom moves SHOULD be allowed, and if I run any tournaments for smash 4 wii u, they will be

 

[Numjoy]

Ya equipment should be a big no. I do agree with the whole custom moves thing brought up by Utena. Will people be able to counterpick them? If they are going to allow something as big and diverse as custom moves you should take that into consideration.

 

[_Magus_]

I'm for custom moves, but it's mainly out of bias, cuz Ganon's alternate Down-B is amazing

 

[Teshie U]

Picking custom moves from a set takes the same amount of time as changing characters. Most characters and players, after all, will be using the same 2 or 3 sets.

Creating a fresh set from scratch takes a little less than 10 seconds--I just timed it.

You can't make customs while in a lobby. You need to leave the lobby and go into a seperate menu to create one.

Still, most of the time wasted at tournaments has nothing to do with the game. TOs are often just too generous with people leaving to eat, take breaks, talk to coaches, button check etc.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

I think it's great to play around with things & see where they go seeing as the game is brand new. We don't even know all the moves of all the characters to begin with, so since we are still in the process of learning all this we might as well throw in custom moves as well, seeing as they add depth & variation in this game. Seems kind of like picking a different ultra when playing 2D fighters. Can't hurt to try it out for awhile. Can't make a more unfair impact then Metaknight and people didn't ban him.

 

[arglactable]

There are 49 playable characters. There are over 1000 possible move combinations in the game. 49 is possible and reasonable to get familiar with. More than 1000 is not. Custom moves transform the game from a fast-paced fighting game into a "which custom moves should I counter-pick to beat his play style?" game. There's literally no possible way to be prepared for every combination of move sets.

In most fighting games, you can go into a match with a general idea of what you're up against. Good luck memorizing every possible move set combination on every character.

I'm not a fan of the custom moves, and I think they're a terrible idea if you want balanced competitive play. However - whatever floats your boat.

That's not a reasonable number to throw around at all. The difference between the default and custom specials is hardly drastic enough to result in anywhere near that many truly practical considerations. If these were entirely different moves instead of variations on the original, it would be a different situation.

Even with that aside, it's pretty obvious already that a minority of them result in enough net positive gain to drastically change the character's approach or to be really viable alternatives to the default anyway and in cases where they do, the default is pretty much crap, so the viable alternate would end up being the de facto standard in any even remotely competitive play. There is no situation in which it will be necessary to account for all 8 alternates for a character, let alone every possible combination of those alternates. The only situation where all of these moves might show up is in casual play, where balance is a minor consideration at best.

 

[Osirun]

I think that Custom Moves should be legal, and Mii fighters should also be legal. The amount of time it takes to transfer your custom fighter from 3DS to WiiU is negligible, and having Custom Moves vastly increases the variety within the game. I understand complaints about not wanting to learn all the various matchup variants, but in the end that is a poor reason. Restriction of competitively viable options solely to make the game easier to memorize sounds too much like laziness to me.

There is a certain amount of monetary investment that any fighting game player has to put in in order to play their game of choice. If you want to play Smash 4 competitively, then you will probably need a 3DS and a Smash 4 for 3DS. If you get a used 3DS and a new copy of the game, you should spend around $160. That is less than the cost of a brand new PS3/PS4 or XBONE MadCatz Tournament Edition 2 arcade stick ($200) for players of USFIV, UMvC3, KI, and so on. So players who complain about custom moves not being fair because they can't afford a 3DS and 3DS Smash 4 have some sympathy from me, but not that much.

Custom moves have not yet been proven to break the game's competitive play, and the logistical challenge of using custom moves and Mii fighters is negligible. In order to play these games competitively you should be prepared to invest a certain amount of money for equipment. Therefore, custom moves and Mii fighters should be legal for tournament play.

I do draw the line at custom character Equipment, however. Logically, the argument for Equipment is the same as the argument for Custom Moves. However, the same logic can be applied to Items. We can't be sure that Items will break Smash 4 competitively, but I doubt many TOs will take the chance and allow Items based on their history. I worry that allowing Equipment will make the game too silly. Characters might be running around too fast for players and viewers to keep up, and KOs might happen at odd percentages thanks to the wide variety of potential interactions between two players' Equipment selections. In short, Equipment adds too much of that random factor that most competitive players disliked regarding Items. Therefore, Equipment should be illegal for tournament play.

 

[Chronocide]

Not even 2 months past its release and we're already talking bans .
Without trying to reiterate what has already been said several times I can see custom moves being viable in competitive play as it opens up a whole new array of tactics, options and methods of playing without requiring too much of a luck factor (here's looking at you equipment). I'm sure there will be some custom moves that are absolute trash whilst others might be over powered (I use that term loosely), however we can't conclude which is which yet because we aren't far enough into the metagame. I'm sure after we've given custom moves their trial run we can then start the discussion on whether they're fair for tournament play and if so are there any exceptions that need to be made.
As seen above there are some solid reasons for allowing custom moves, so to claim they require an outright ban two months into the game's release just seems like a foolish knee jerk response to me.

 

[Feryn Hyrk]

Most Miis are stupid, but if you use ones that actually genuine famous Nintendo Miis then it's awesome! Unfortunatelly I can only think of 2 examples... the best is Nikki from swapnote and the other would be the default Mii look, wich Mii-wise is iconic...

There also Reggie and Sakurai, maybe Miyamoto... but I'd stop with Nikki, defaults and Sakurai only as the best ones.

I wish we could make a Mii of Iris Archwell, the also iconic assitant from that haunted mansion game from Mii Plaza... unfortunately her hairstyle doesn't exist on the creation options =/... but there is even a trophy of her in this game...

Don't get me wrong, there are some really funny and creative ones, lkike "dolan" or "monalisa" but no one compares to playing as Nikki from swapnote!

As for the fight thing... there is a best biuld already for Mii Brawler, wich is the smallest and fitest, so apart from the normal Mii there should be this all smaller one too. I think Mii Gunner benefits from that too, the only one I think it's complicated it's the Mii Swordman because making his thin reduces the sword size, but eventually there will be a optimun build for him too and you can put a Mii with the most popular one for him to use...

Other topic stuff = I think all custom specials and all Mii sizes and all Mii and Palutena custom moves should be legal.

To ban = equipments. Still, I'm open for exception lists on equipments, soemthing like SMOGON... like allowing the one that reduces landing lag... BUT for now I think they should be banned because Sakurai and his team are already releasing balance patches in wich they tune some characters landing lag, so there is a balance being made that maybe we shouldn't mess with any equipment at all.

 

[Phoenix502]

given everyone else is typing their fingers off about the vast reasons for this, I'll just post my two cents...

Custom moves: should be legal, lets everyone find their own style of play in a character... matchups be damned *shot*

Miis: I don't care, only reason I can see them gone outside of competitive debates is because some troll makes a NSFW face that isn't funny.

Equipment: given the nature of it, I can certainly find it justified of people wanting it off the table... perhaps when the game gets cracked in the future, someone should make an exclusive set of pieces that balance out, but provide whatever effects the folks calling the shots want... food for thought.

also, that poll is missing an option or two, such as "Custom specials and Mii fighters allowed, no equipment"

 

[Cuon Alpinus]

The only real issue I see is that they need to be unlocked. Maybe in the future when most Wii U players have most on their system, but as it is right now, Sakurai completely boned any hope for getting all custom specials within a timely manner.

 

[Frozn~]

Not really, I have 5 years in competitive pokemon and there are an extremely vast amount of variety you need to know about. For smeargle alone you have to prepare for 559 moves he can use alone. Combine that with all the possibilities and you got 312481 different sets you must adapt to.

EDIT: I did the math wrong it is actually 97,644,375,361 (97 billion lmao)

haha a Smeargle that helps is going to run Spore and/or Baton Pass 99% of the time, and Focus Sash 100% of the time. As the Sm4sh meta evolves, we'll start to be able to predict which sets are going to be used most often. I do agree, however, that the fun of custom moves is that you're going into a match not knowing entirely what your opponent can do, and that you need to play accordingly. Players who are able to play great with the less known moves will use the element of surprise to their advantage. It adds a whole new layer to the mindgames that has never been seen before. It gives Sm4sh a distinct flavor that stands out from its predecessors.
I especially like Link's meteor bombs. Sure he can no longer bomb jump, but a projectile that spikes is scary.

Miis I'm fine with because they are beatable. Like someone said, the only problem with miis is either a name or face that's inappropriate.

Equipment is a bad idea for so many reasons XD

 

[TTYK]

haha a Smeargle that helps is going to run Spore and/or Baton Pass 99% of the time, and Focus Sash 100% of the time. As the Sm4sh meta evolves, we'll start to be able to predict which sets are going to be used most often. I do agree, however, that the fun of custom moves is that you're going into a match not knowing entirely what your opponent can do, and that you need to play accordingly. Players who are able to play great with the less known moves will use the element of surprise to their advantage. It adds a whole new layer to the mindgames that has never been seen before. It gives Sm4sh a distinct flavor that stands out from its predecessors.
I especially like Link's meteor bombs. Sure he can no longer bomb jump, but a projectile that spikes is scary.

Miis I'm fine with because they are beatable. Like someone said, the only problem with miis is either a name or face that's inappropriate.

Equipment is a bad idea for so many reasons XD

I don't think you get what I was saying fellow Greninja main and Pokemon Master, what you are stating is what I was trying to imply the whole time. That it is ridiculous to worry about preparing for every combination when in reality, a good smasher won't worry about that.

 

[Juggleguy]

Custom moves at the tourney environment is just a bad idea.

Most of the voters aren't TOs who know better. Custom moves are a huge logistical nightmare and it's just not worth the hassle. There's a difference between thinking they would be cool to use in tourneys and being able to efficiently organize a tourney that allows them.

 

[Dragoomba]

Custom moves at the tourney environment is just a bad idea.

Most of the voters aren't TOs who know better. Custom moves are a huge logistical nightmare and it's just not worth the hassle. There's a difference between thinking they would be cool to use in tourneys and being able to efficiently organize a tourney that allows them.

Our lord Juggleguy has spoken. Factor this in with the fact that they're just a tedious gimmick that looks pathetic in tournament play, and you start to question why this was even a discussion for so long.

Most of the voters aren't TOs who know better.

I've also noticed from scrolling through this thread that 80% of the posters have 2014 join dates and under 100 posts, as if they've made accounts just to promote custom moves.

 

[Frozn~]

I'm not entirely sure my join date has much to do with the validity of my words, and I wish that people wouldn't use that as some sort of argument against my thoughts. I thought we were here for discussion, not patronization. I wouldn't say that I'm the smartest guy around, and I'm definitely no smash star, but I'd like to say I'm a SmashBoards member like anyone else on here without being called out on joining 8 years later than I should have, so can we just focus on what's in the thread title?

It seems like the only reason that custom moves aren't accepted is because it would be difficult for every system to have them all unlocked. I think that it's a perfectly valid reason, but only in terms of time and practicality.

As for the metagame I don't find any custom moves particularly OP at all, and if Sakurai wasn't so against competition then I'd totally be up for playing Custom moves at tourneys.

 

[John12346]

Most of the voters aren't TOs who know better. Custom moves are a huge logistical nightmare and it's just not worth the hassle. There's a difference between thinking they would be cool to use in tourneys and being able to efficiently organize a tourney that allows them.

I've also noticed from scrolling through this thread that 80% of the posters have 2014 join dates and under 100 posts, as if they've made accounts just to promote custom moves.

Looks like it's time for my OP forum stats to do some work

I'm gonna start off with the fact that I am for custom moves(and by extension Mii Fighters), but against equipment, just so everyone knows where I stand.

So... for the most part, arguments against custom moves can be boiled down into two notions:

1. It's way too hard to implement the usage of custom moves in tournament.
Most naysayers against custom moves will talk about how difficult it is to get them working and ready to go for tournaments, since it's hard to unlock them on WiiU. As someone who's trying to 100% the game, I will admit that it definitely is difficult to do this, but the transferal of custom sets from 3DS to WiiU is most certainly not. Moving through the menus and getting a set over from one system to the other takes no more than one minute to complete. And... just like making custom controls for names on systems, sending your custom sets over is a one and done deal that only needs to be done once. As soon as you've imported a set to a system, that system is good to go for the rest of the tournament. With custom sets implemented, it definitely wouldn't be any kind of hazard to time constraints and the like. It just doesn't take that long.

And some people might say, "Oh, so now you have to spend all of this money in order to enter to competitive scene?" C'mon, though. How hard is it really to just ask someone who's got the goods on 3DS to transfer it over when you are unable to since you don't own one? This is probably what people would do regardless, even if the concern were not to be addressed in any way.

One other concern about having custom moves legal is that your opponent will be kept in the dark about what customs you might be using. This is definitely an issue, and would have to be addressed in official tournament rules. To alleviate this, a simple addendum of "By request, you have the right to ask your opponent about what custom special moves they are using," to rulesets is an easy enough fix, I'd say.

2. Custom moves negatively impact the game.
The best way to start to approach this argument is to see if there are any inherently broken custom moves in the game. From a preliminary examination, the best or most salt inducing custom moves appear to be Kong Cyclone, Extreme Judge, Relentless Missile, Luma Warp, Shifting Shuriken, and a few others I guess I can't think of off the top of my head. Suffice to say, though, the community as a whole has had a good amount of time to examine these custom moves, and not a single one of them has been determined to be degenerate to gameplay or tests of skill in any way. Each individual custom special move has its own tradeoffs, with some definitely being better than others, but they can all definitely be dealt with in some way. There doesn't seem to be an exception to this right now.

The other big complaint appears to be that it's too hard to learn and remember each individual custom set a character might run(This can also parallel as an argument for Mii Fighters' size discrepancies). For both sides of the argument, this is obviously just a subjective personal point. Regardless, I believe that the "breadth" of matchups provided by all of these custom moves helps add to the game's depth and overall complexity. Having a more varied selection of options for yourself and having to understand the different kinds of options your opponent possesses is something that I truly believe can be part of a legitimate skillset for this game.

I believe that Smash 4 has the potential to become so much more with custom special moves thrown into the mix. That is my belief.

 

[DunnoBro]

I feel like the poll should say "Equipment included" when it refers to "all" because since it talks about miis first, I thought it just meant miis and custom specials not equipment too. So I almost voted for that, I wonder how many others did the same.

@ John12346

I agree with your sentiment for the most part but I think at some points you still undersell the logistical efficiency of customs.
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395/

As things are, only ganons with their match-up specific customs, and super special snowflakes who ignore competitive viability entering tournaments will be an issue.

On a side note, on the subject of unlocking customs on the wii u I just got about 2/3rds of them this weekend using this method.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2offc5/my_friends_cool_trick_to_getting_huge_streaks_in/

Though I'm using duck hunt/robin with similar equipment. Extremely easy, though I wish I had better chars for it. A speed/attack set vs the slow all-defense duck hunt and worthless in the crazy hand fight speed/defense robin would be ideal. That pikachu set is probably ideal since he hits far in front of him and a bit behind him too with HRB. (is also short so less likely to be disrupted)

Might be cool if the smash community started spreading crazy order god sets to quickly unlock customs on Wii Us. I'd say it's about 5x easier than unlocking the 3ds ones.

 

[Osirun]

I have been a TO for 4 years, and understand the logistical needs of a tournament. I would like to re-post my thoughts on allowing custom moves in SSB4:

I think that Custom Moves should be legal, and Mii fighters should also be legal. The amount of time it takes to transfer your custom fighter from 3DS to WiiU is negligible, and having Custom Moves vastly increases the variety within the game. I understand complaints about not wanting to learn all the various matchup variants, but in the end that is a poor reason. Restriction of competitively viable options solely to make the game easier to memorize sounds too much like laziness to me.

There is a certain amount of monetary investment that any fighting game player has to put in in order to play their game of choice. If you want to play Smash 4 competitively, then you will probably need a 3DS and a Smash 4 for 3DS. If you get a used 3DS and a new copy of the game, you should spend around $160. That is less than the cost of a brand new PS3/PS4 or XBONE MadCatz Tournament Edition 2 arcade stick ($200) for players of USFIV, UMvC3, KI, and so on. So players who complain about custom moves not being fair because they can't afford a 3DS and 3DS Smash 4 have some sympathy from me, but not that much.

Custom moves have not yet been proven to break the game's competitive play, and the logistical challenge of using custom moves and Mii fighters is negligible. In order to play these games competitively you should be prepared to invest a certain amount of money for equipment. Therefore, custom moves and Mii fighters should be legal for tournament play.

I do draw the line at custom character Equipment, however. Logically, the argument for Equipment is the same as the argument for Custom Moves. However, the same logic can be applied to Items. We can't be sure that Items will break Smash 4 competitively, but I doubt many TOs will take the chance and allow Items based on their history. I worry that allowing Equipment will make the game too silly. Characters might be running around too fast for players and viewers to keep up, and KOs might happen at odd percentages thanks to the wide variety of potential interactions between two players' Equipment selections. In short, Equipment adds too much of that random factor that most competitive players disliked regarding Items. Therefore, Equipment should be illegal for tournament play.

I would like to add that the only jobs the TO and the judges have at this point are: ensuring players do not use equipment, which is obvious from the custom select screen, and to ensure that enough free custom spaces are open on a given WiiU. Deleting a couple of custom slots for a players preferred custom setup is not a big deal. Logistical problems such as player tardiness are, in my opinion, more considerable than the inclusion of custom moves transferred from a 3DS. Now, if it comes to light that certain moves are indeed unfair and create gross imbalance, then ban them. Until then, let them rock.

 

[TTYK]

Our lord Juggleguy has spoken. Factor this in with the fact that they're just a tedious gimmick that looks pathetic in tournament play, and you start to question why this was even a discussion for so long.


I've also noticed from scrolling through this thread that 80% of the posters have 2014 join dates and under 100 posts, as if they've made accounts just to promote custom moves.

Maybe you need a fresh persepective, we haven't had our smash mindset terraformed by melee.

 

[Pazx]

Custom moves at the tourney environment is just a bad idea.

Most of the voters aren't TOs who know better. Custom moves are a huge logistical nightmare and it's just not worth the hassle. There's a difference between thinking they would be cool to use in tourneys and being able to efficiently organize a tourney that allows them.

Have you looked into Ampharos's custom move project at all? Not as difficult as you make it out to be.