Social Spoon Sword Social

[ThePsychoWolf]

Abadango just posted a new tier list. Thoughts on Mewtwo's position or any others? Rows are not ordered.

I like where Mewtwo's at.
I'm not a competitive player, but there is no way in hell Charizard, Roy, Lucina, or especially WFT, are worse than Ganondorf.
Roy and WFT in bottom 5? WHAT?

 

[Deleted member]

I like where Mewtwo's at.
I'm not a competitive player, but there is no way in hell Charizard, Roy, Lucina, or especially WFT, are worse than Ganondorf.
Roy and WFT in bottom 5? WHAT?

Pon's Ganondorf is pretty tight.

 

[Yonder]

My Smash 4 weekly is this Saturday. I'm gonna pull out for the first time in tournament and see how it goes. If things get rough I'll switch to.

I used him at another weekly and teleport sd'd after a small lead against G dorf. Not showing that stream! It was poor play on my part.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I used Ness in a 6 person tournament after work today because it was the safe option and I'd fear Bowser would KO Mewtwo early against the first person I faced. I ended up winning both sets I played 2-0. It was 2 out of 3 games each set with two stocks.

The second person I played during finals used ZSS. First game against him, I almost lost a stock as Ness. Second game I switched to Mewtwo and two stocked him with maybe 30-40% damage in less than two minutes...I'll upload the replay when I have time. I was just happy I was able to read my opponent so easily and he didn't know what to do since I generally picked random during free-for-all matches.

If it wasn't my Wii U and I didn't fear ruining Mewtwo's win record, I probably would play as him more against human players. ._.

 

[Krysco]

Didn't I just say the point of missiles is not to camp opponents out or force approaches? Like you said, the only reason they were decent for this in past games was due to missile cancelling. Here, you shoot them only when you see an opening, such as landing or dashing straight at you, like in the Metroid games where you don't shoot missiles willy-nilly (not until the end anyway) unless you know they'll hit and cause damage.

Compare that to Falco's Blaster, which is more difficult to react to and is transcendent too, so you'll almost always at least trade in ranged combat. Much better to use repeatedly from a distance.

Her moves also have very good startup in general (certainly better than Mewtwo's for the most part), including the oft-maligned jab. Only utilt and grab are really slow (but the former has good endlag making it pretty safe on shield). Fsmash is also pretty fast for how strong it can be (it's decently powerful even on sourspot). It's the endlag on the moves that leave her open if she's not precise.



She's a lot like Mewtwo, except a bit more aggressive-minded in her spacing, mainly thanks to the better startup on most of her moves and Charge Shot (plus extra weight for a bit of a cushion against mistakes). Where Mewtwo dances around you poking now and then waiting for you to mess up, Samus relentlessly harasses you into making that mistake and seizes the opportunity with lightning speed.

It's the past games that I'm familiar with however, and the ones a number of people are coming from. 64, she didn't have missiles and couldn't camp with just Charge Shot. I have no idea what her playstyle is in that game. Melee, Brawl and most likely thanks to those two games P:M, she has missile cancelling which allows them to be used for camping and forcing approaches far better than Sm4sh. It was most likely an oversight but it defined her playstyle for two games back to back. Samus didn't approach except in rare circumstances. She shot missiles and charged her Charge Shot until the enemy approached. Compare that to Sm4sh where she approaches more often, it's a change of playstyle. Falco and Marth went through similar ones, especially Falco.

In my mind, Samus is meant to be a camper. Having three projectiles, and moves that scream 'get away from me' she doesn't want the opponent near her. The difference is how close she wants the opponent now and it just seems off to me. I'm no Samus expert though and I'm just expressing my inexperienced viewpoint of how I see the character.

I don't agree with your bottom 10 picks at all.

I doubt very many would. Outside of Zelda and Puff, every character 'isn't bottom 5 material'. My bias was telling me to put Lucina at number 5 but even with my love for Ganon, I feel he is one of the top 10 worst characters at least. The top and high tier characters are relatively clear cut. It's once you enter the mid and low tiers that it becomes a battle of opinions for whose the 'bottom 5'.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

I'm still wondering between or to join alongside and . Way I see it, 's got the advantage, just trying to see if that will be my final choice or not. As for bottom 10, it's down to people's perspectives. Not everyone will be able to agree on a bottom 10, at least not for a LONG while. Either way, I'll still main whether people think she's the worst, low tier, or maybe buffed to mid tier. I'll still main due to him being a constant main in the franchise.

 

[LRodC]

I feel like the developers have qualms with buffing projectile fire rate, speed, or end lag due to how unfun projectile spammers are to fight. Enough people complain about Samus' missiles and Link's boomerang and arrows on For Glory as is, so imagine if they could fire projectiles at a faster rate or be safer while doing it. Same goes for Duck Hunt and his side and down B.

I think this type of mindset will harm the chances of these characters getting any lag reductions to their projectiles. Link doesn't really need them, but the others do and it would help them out a ton.

I feel like this is also the same philosophy that got Falco's laser destroyed between Brawl and Smash 4 and is keeping it from being buffed significantly. Granted it did need to be toned down, but they may have gone too far with it.

 

[Aninymouse]

I feel like the developers have qualms with buffing projectile fire rate, speed, or end lag due to how unfun projectile spammers are to fight. Enough people complain about Samus' missiles and Link's boomerang and arrows on For Glory as is, so imagine if they could fire projectiles at a faster rate or be safer while doing it. Same goes for Duck Hunt and his side and down B.

I think this type of mindset will harm the chances of these characters getting any lag reductions to their projectiles. Link doesn't really need them, but the others do and it would help them out a ton.

I feel like this is also the same philosophy that got Falco's laser destroyed between Brawl and Smash 4 and is keeping it from being buffed significantly. Granted it did need to be toned down, but they may have gone too far with it.

You're right; and the reason they did it this way is simple: no platforms in For Glory to escape projectile spam.

 

[meleebrawler]

It's the past games that I'm familiar with however, and the ones a number of people are coming from. 64, she didn't have missiles and couldn't camp with just Charge Shot. I have no idea what her playstyle is in that game. Melee, Brawl and most likely thanks to those two games P:M, she has missile cancelling which allows them to be used for camping and forcing approaches far better than Sm4sh. It was most likely an oversight but it defined her playstyle for two games back to back. Samus didn't approach except in rare circumstances. She shot missiles and charged her Charge Shot until the enemy approached. Compare that to Sm4sh where she approaches more often, it's a change of playstyle. Falco and Marth went through similar ones, especially Falco.

Everybody's playstyle in 64 is "combo the opponent until they die". Your position on the tier list depends almost strictly on how easily you can do that as well avoiding them.

 

[Deleted member]

Everybody's playstyle in 64 is "combo the opponent until they die". Your position on the tier list depends almost strictly on how easily you can do that as well avoiding them.

I main Kirby in 64.

Hitboxes? What are those?

 

[Metallinatus]

I used Ness in a 6 person tournament after work today because it was the safe option and I'd fear Bowser would KO Mewtwo early against the first person I faced. I ended up winning both sets I played 2-0. It was 2 out of 3 games each set with two stocks.

The second person I played during finals used ZSS. First game against him, I almost lost a stock as Ness. Second game I switched to Mewtwo and two stocked him with maybe 30-40% damage in less than two minutes...I'll upload the replay when I have time. I was just happy I was able to read my opponent so easily and he didn't know what to do since I generally picked random during free-for-all matches.

If it wasn't my Wii U and I didn't fear ruining Mewtwo's win record, I probably would play as him more against human players. ._.

Not wanting to underrate you or your opponent, but for getting two-stocked by a Ness and a Mewtwo.... I am assuming he just don't know ZSS, not yet. I am not that great player, but I know she is not an easy character contrary to popular belief, so I just wanted to throw that in there. He may have picked her to main just thinking it would be an easier route than Sheik and.... nope. Just my assumption.

I feel like the developers have qualms with buffing projectile fire rate, speed, or end lag due to how unfun projectile spammers are to fight. Enough people complain about Samus' missiles and Link's boomerang and arrows on For Glory as is, so imagine if they could fire projectiles at a faster rate or be safer while doing it. Same goes for Duck Hunt and his side and down B.

I think this type of mindset will harm the chances of these characters getting any lag reductions to their projectiles. Link doesn't really need them, but the others do and it would help them out a ton.

I feel like this is also the same philosophy that got Falco's laser destroyed between Brawl and Smash 4 and is keeping it from being buffed significantly. Granted it did need to be toned down, but they may have gone too far with it.

Link's and DH's projectiles are hell for who don't know how to deal with then, but Samus' missiles? Seriously? You can play the whole Subspace Emissary tripping at every step before it's endlag ends....

Everybody's playstyle in 64 is "combo the opponent until they die". Your position on the tier list depends almost strictly on how easily you can do that as well avoiding them.

And then you have Samus who is the only character in Smash 64 who doesn't really have combos outside of stuff that you can do from an un-teched Dair.... she plays with single hits mostly in this game.

 

[Furret24]

Not wanting to <I really couldn't find the right word here, sorry> you or your opponent, but for getting two-stocked by a Ness and a Mewtwo.... I am assuming he just don't know ZSS, not yet. I am not that great player, but I know she is not an easy character contrary to popular belief, so I just wanted to throw that in there. He may have picked her to main just thinking it would be an easier route than Sheik and.... nope. Just my assumption.


Link's and DH's projectiles are hell for who don't know how to deal with then, but Samus' missiles? Seriously? You can play the whole Subspace Emissary tripping at every step before it's endlag ends....

It's funny, because most of Duck Hunt's specials have more endlag than her missles.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'm still wondering between or to join alongside and . Way I see it, 's got the advantage, just trying to see if that will be my final choice or not. As for bottom 10, it's down to people's perspectives. Not everyone will be able to agree on a bottom 10, at least not for a LONG while. Either way, I'll still main whether people think she's the worst, low tier, or maybe buffed to mid tier. I'll still main due to him being a constant main in the franchise.

Are you a technical player?

 

[Metallinatus]

It's funny, because most of Duck Hunt's specials have more endlag than her missles.

But the can, the disk and the shooting guy make the approach 10 times harder than a simple missile.... plus, actually 90% of the DHs on For Glory are legit spammers who will just run from one side to the other of the stage spamming those moves like the scrub Links of FG....
I am not being biased when I say that I never saw a Samus doing that in FG, which goes on to show that it is not even close of a viable option for her, unlike the doggy. His specials are just better at keeping the opponents away than just a missile.

 

[HakuryuVision]

What a rotten day.
Had a loosing streak on FG (which got me raving mad), had to buy groceries when it suddenly started raining, got a headache because of the cold, and when i tried distract myself on imgur, i found out that Allan Rickman died today.

 

[Krysco]

Everybody's playstyle in 64 is "combo the opponent until they die". Your position on the tier list depends almost strictly on how easily you can do that as well avoiding them.

I've hardly even given any impression on the tier list outside of my impression of a bottom 10 which I couldn't even fill without questioning myself who should be in it. As for the 64 playstyle, that's mostly because the way 64 is more so than the way the characters are. Every aerial can be lagless, shields are crap, lots of hitstun. And outside of that, HOW does each character start that combo? Rush down? Spacing? Etc.

The playstyles flesh out more in Melee, Brawl, Sm4sh. Like, Link isn't too combo heavy in Brawl and Sm4sh (comparatively) and I'm not sure about Melee. Even without many combos, I didn't even consider Link to be in the bottom 10.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Not wanting to underrate you or your opponent, but for getting two-stocked by a Ness and a Mewtwo.... I am assuming he just don't know ZSS, not yet. I am not that great player, but I know she is not an easy character contrary to popular belief, so I just wanted to throw that in there. He may have picked her to main just thinking it would be an easier route than Sheik and.... nope. Just my assumption.

He plays as ZSS and Dark Pit a lot. He beat my co-worker who I believed to be second best in our group and that guy has beaten me a few times. I'm going with it's more due to him not knowing how to deal with Mewtwo while I've figured his patterns.

 

[Furret24]

But the can, the disk and the shooting guy make the approach 10 times harder than a simple missile.... plus, actually 90% of the DHs on For Glory are legit spammers who will just run from one side to the other of the stage spamming those moves like the scrub Links of FG....
I am not being biased when I say that I never saw a Samus doing that in FG, which goes on to show that it is not even close of a viable option for her, unlike the doggy. His specials are just better at keeping the opponents away than just a missile.

All four can easily be avoided by just jumping, especially Clay Pigeon, Gunman (who also have poor range), and Missle.

Duck Hunt's specials are not good for spacing since they all have terrible durability, meh range, and unnecessary amounts of lag. Maybe it's just me, but I've never encountered a spammy Duck Hunt that wasn't a complete pushover since his projectiles are garbage for spamming and require knowing their fundamentals and uses. Same for Samus, even if she's a bit more a pain since CS is fantastic. Link and Toon Link are the only characters I can think of that are good at spamming since their specials are all good for doing so, mainly because of their range and versatility.

But I'm just rambling at this point.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

"I'm... so sorry everyone...
I feel like I have no choice but to..."

Drop Mewtwo.

It was great to train with this thread, but times have changed and I have to leave Mewtwo behind for reasons beyond my control. Best of luck to all of you here at the Spoon Sword Social.

And after all...
"Maybe I'll get my chance... another day..."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

and I have to leave Mewtwo behind for reasons beyond my control.

wat. I'm curious about this

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Mains advice thread, my post.

 

[Metallinatus]

All four can easily be avoided by just jumping, especially Clay Pigeon, Gunman (who also have poor range), and Missle.

Duck Hunt's specials are not good for spacing since they all have terrible durability, meh range, and unnecessary amounts of lag. Maybe it's just me, but I've never encountered a spammy Duck Hunt that wasn't a complete pushover since his projectiles are garbage for spamming and require knowing their fundamentals and uses. Same for Samus, even if she's a bit more a pain since CS is fantastic. Link and Toon Link are the only characters I can think of that are good at spamming since their specials are all good for doing so, mainly because of their range and versatility.

But I'm just rambling at this point.

Your previous comment actually made me think back at what used to make approaching him so hard.... I haven't played against DH for ages.... well, I haven't played Smash for ages, since I've been in vacation away from home for a good time now, but anyway, I am not sure of what made approaching him hard, maybe it was a combination of the Pigeon and the can, which cannot be avoided by just jumping.
Anyway, I am not sure, but something about his zoning was tricky.

Mains advice thread, my post.

So you feel pressured to get better by your brother, but at the same time you feel like you hit a wall and can't improve with Mewtwo?

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Are you a technical player?

I'm aggressive, maybe technical I suppose.
I've been debating between and to go along with and if that says anything.

 

[TailLover]

I say pick up Mewtwo, because I'm heavily biased to him and his tail and always want to see more Mewtwo players

oh and Cloud because I also use Cloud

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

No, I'm still a bit ahead, but he uses the shadow skin and all the same combos (albeit with a bit more up smash). And he's officially maining that set. So, I'd rather not be a copy-paste of my brother and be unique (which was the entire reason I started playing Mewtwo.)

I think I'm going to add Lucas as my second main. He's very similar to Mewtwo. I'm moving Mewtwo into a counterpick slot, similar to Meta Knight, my first retired main.
At least, until Corrin comes out. That moveset is awesome.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

No, I'm still a bit ahead, but he uses the shadow skin and all the same combos (albeit with a bit more up smash). And he's officially maining that set. So, I'd rather not be a copy-paste of my brother and be unique (which was the entire reason I started playing Mewtwo.)

I think I'm going to add Lucas as my second main. He's very similar to Mewtwo. I'm moving Mewtwo into a counterpick slot, similar to Meta Knight, my first retired main.
At least, until Corrin comes out. That moveset is awesome.

Pssh, there are a lot of copy-pastes out there. It's inevitable that there's going to be someone who plays the same or very similar to you.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

It's odd for me, if I do go with Mewtwo, which is most likely, than I literally am playing characters that nobody I know plays. I have like, 2 buddies that play Greninja, albeit not really competitive, and a few competitive friends who either want to or already picked up Cloud. Nobody I know plays MK, Lucina, or Mewtwo.

 

[TailLover]

Well the new Pokken Tournament character was revealed, and it's a pretty big mind****:

https://i.imgur.com/lw9AhEp.jpg

 

[Furret24]

Well the new Pokken Tournament character was revealed, and it's a pretty big mind****:

https://i.imgur.com/lw9AhEp.jpg

Well, that was certainly unexpected. :| Would've preferred someone else, but I can't say I'm upset. I wonder how Chandelure will play.

 

[Yonder]

View attachment 92288
Well, that was certainly unexpected. :| Would've preferred someone else, but I can't say I'm upset. I wonder how Chandelure will play.

I think it's super cool. Finally, a unique character that isnt chosen from the obvious spotlight pokemon. Every other pokemon in the game sides Weavile maybe is obvious. Or machamp.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

I've never been a huge fan of Chandelure... in fact, back in my Pokemon Showdown days in Black/White, I hated that dude. I pretty much only played UU, and dealing with him was incredibly difficult. I was a bit of a scrub back then, and there probably are a decent amount of counters to B/W Chandelure, but I still hated him.

He seems to be a pretty interesting choice in Pokken though. Don't mind him getting in all that much, despite painful memories. Like others have said, glad to see more unpopular Pokemon in the game.

 

[Browny]

Please chandelure be S tier PLEASE

I love it when troll characters are the best

 

[LRodC]

Looks like Pokken will support 60 FPS LAN for competitive play. Aninymouse got his wish.

Plus Chandelure. Did not see that coming. Still waiting for the rest of the Smash Pokemon.

 

[HakuryuVision]

At this point, all i hope for is Greninja.
And even if he won't be playable, Charizard, Mewtwo and Gardevoir made it in, so i'm already very happy with the current roster.

+Machamp, Gengar, and Chandelure look like fun too!

 

[---]

After six days in a row of having to work plus overtime, I finally have two days off . Am almost done with FE6, bought some cheesecake that was on sale, and Genesis is this weekend (please let their be some good Mewtwos/Mega Mans there unlike EVO).

Chandlelure is kind of surprising, as is Sylveon being a support. At least there's another non-bipedal character on the roster like Suicune. Also $5 says Magikarp is the most Support Pokemon. lol

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, is @MewSquared actually going to G3?

 

[LRodC]

Wait, is @MewSquared actually going to G3?

Unfortunately I don't think so.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Wait, is @MewSquared actually going to G3?

No, he is going to a couple of big tournies in Texas I believe, and he said something about going to EVO.

 

[Deleted member]

Unfortunately I don't think so.

No, he is going to a couple of big tournies in Texas I believe, and he said something about going to EVO.

Dangnabbit, ah well. Here's to hoping he does us good at EVO.

I'm just hyped to see how Aba will do with Mewtwo this weekend.

 

[MewtwoX825]

Pokken is looking great with these new chars, love all of them except for Braixen (yep Fire starters are this games sword equilvalent). Also LOVE that both Mewtwos have Mega X, Fetus Head had enough spotlight time for Stretch Armstrong to get some love. Only thing that sucks is Sylveon is an assist cause she was the best candidate for an eeveelution rep.