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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Shroob

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I don't think they're suggesting that Isabelle was revealed instead of Isaac, but rather that both were supposed to be revealed. Like, the Direct would have opened with Isaac and ended with Isabelle.

I do find that Nintendo Life 4chan post a bit out there, simply because he states what publication he's working for, and iirc PapaGenos also said that it was likely fake even though it claims to have the same source as him. This does not rule out that Isaac was cut from the September Direct though, as Leak Review does back that up with his own source, and it would help explain the current drought a bit, both Isaac and Isabelle would have been an unexpected mini-bombshell at the time and would have tied us over for longer.

It would also explain why we're potentially sitting here with 7 unrevealed newcomers at this stage, take Isaac out of that and that' just one more newcomer than the August Direct, maybe even take Banjo or Geno out of that as that could be a Mewtwo scenario and we're down to the same number.
But the blog post numbers don't match that, at all.


Isabelle is where she was always supposed to be on the blog, and the Animal Crossing music more or less confirms this. All the blog posts that got shuffled around to fill dead air kept their original numbering.


There is no way Isaac could have been shown alongside Isabelle in September is we take the blog numbering system as gospel, and there's soo far nothing that's really lead me to doubt it as anything but "This was set up a loooooooooong time ago."
 

ZelDan

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Isabelle was always going to be shown off in the September Direct, this is painfully obvious, so this really doesn't mean anything, especially since these blog posts have probably been made MONTHS in advance.



I still HEAVILY scrutinize the "Isaac was held back!" specifically due to this.
Couldn't Isaac have been shown off AFTER Isabelle, still making her character 68? Maybe initially Isabelle was supposed to be shown off at the beginning of the Direct and Isaac near the end.

I mean, Maybe Isaac never was intended for that direct, I won't deny that possibility, I just don't think Isabelle being in that direct really makes the idea that Isaac could have been in it impossible.
 
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Shroob

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Couldn't Isaac have been shown off AFTER Isabelle, still making her character 68? Maybe initially Isabelle was supposed to be shown off at the beginning of the Direct and Isaac near the end.

I mean, Maybe Isaac never was intended for that direct, I won't deny that possibility, I just don't think Isabelle being in that direct really makes the idea that Isaac could have been in it impossible.
The blog posts that were supposed to come after Isabelle got bumped up a week due to the delay. None of them were Isaac, and the metadata numbering system doesn't hint at there being a 2nd character at all.
 

Artorias

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I'm really hoping ACP-PLV releases a statement denying any involvement in the entire situation very soon, in the case that the leak is false, that would make me go back to being in a more skeptical leaning towards fake stance. Their complete silence and the video being taken down is a thing that gave me hope that the leak could be true.
Edit: It's more likely that we are gonna end up having to wait until an actual reveal to put this discussion down to rest though
 
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staindgrey

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Just to be clear, this 4chan post is seemingly implying the original plan for this Direct was just to reveal Ken, Shadow, Chorus Kids and Mach Rider.

That sounds very strange to me. It would've lacked an anchoring fan-favourite/highly recognizable character, apart from echoes.

There are other red flags in that post as well, but other people have touched on those.
I didn't really think of that. Good point.

Then again, remember how Isabelle's trailer was constructed, and how long it seemed to some people. It really just looks like an upscaled, high resolution version of New Leaf/Pocket Camp, does it not? And it requires no voice actors at all.

What if-- get your tin foil hats on, because it's 2am and **** it-- they put together the Isabelle trailer ahead of schedule so that they could end their direct with the Animal Crossing announcement? With Isaac no longer their closer for unknown reasons, they need a new closer. A premature announcement of a game they planned on announcing soon anyway, coupled with a different Smash character reveal, and padding the now altered Direct with unnecessary Animal Crossing dialog could be a way to do it.

That means that the October of absolutely no information COULD have been meant for Isabelle/Animal Crossing, and Sakurai made the comments about slowing down reveals to try and calm the hype for some sort of October reveal.

...Or the 4chan post is bull****. But how likely is that, really.
 

Calane

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So, is Spawn Wave claiming that Sora's going to be the Game Awards DLC character? I keep seeing this brought up, so I just thought I'd ask about it.

If so, darn. I was really hoping for that DQ character.

Ah, whatever. I'm used to not getting the characters I really want. Congrats to Sora fans in advance if he's really the rumored DLC character.
 
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Shroob

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Personally, I'm putting my faith in the facts on this one, that being the Numbering System that the site uses for blogposts.


There is, and even back then was, zero indication that we'd be getting a 2nd character, and due to how the blog posts got bumped up by a week, it was obvious that only a single character was going to be shown off.


Isabelle has the missing reveal spots, and the other posts ended up falling into place, that's it, really.



Besides missing 1 post number every soo often, probably due to an item no one cares about being skipped, the blog has been very consistent in its numbering. They didn't change any numbers.
 

MasterOfKnees

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But the blog post numbers don't match that, at all.


Isabelle is where she was always supposed to be on the blog, and the Animal Crossing music more or less confirms this. All the blog posts that got shuffled around to fill dead air kept their original numbering.


There is no way Isaac could have been shown alongside Isabelle in September is we take the blog numbering system as gospel, and there's soo far nothing that's really lead me to doubt it as anything but "This was set up a loooooooooong time ago."
I didn't really take the blog posts into account tbh, that's a pretty strong strike against it yeah.
 

Shroob

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I didn't really take the blog posts into account tbh, that's a pretty strong strike against it yeah.
Exactly.

When the Direct got delayed, they moved the next week's blog posts up by a week to fill in the gap of time.


There is zero indication that anything got shuffled around beyond that, and if it did, they did a damn good job while in a rush.



The blog post numbers are concise in, when the Direct was delayed, there were only 4 missing posts, one going to her trailer, one for her memory, and one for her gameplay footage, and a 4th that I forgot.



There is no room for TWO Newcomers in 4 posts, since they'd both need:


Gameplay Trailers
Promo video/trailer
Memories


And even without a Memory post(Isabelle got one afaik), that'd still leave 5 spots, when only 4 were available.
 
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Midget Master

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In regards to the "glitch" in the mural... I'm aware this is kind of old hat at this point, so sorry for re-litigating it, but yeah. I feel like condensing my thoughts into a post several hundred words long once again, so if you'd like to hear them, hop on!

I don't completely buy it being a coincidence (it's literally right there. Isaac, in the leak, ends exactly where Little Mac is cut off) but I also don't really buy the argument that it necessarily confirms anything (considering the logical way to handle changes to the banner for one, and the structure of the mural having a seam at that exact spot.)

So... what, exactly? Let's presume this is a fake. Is this something that the faker intended for people to pick up on? I noticed the tear myself back around then, but didn't really pay it much mind. It took a pretty long time to surface in the conversation considering how seemingly material it is. I've heard people saying that, should this be a fake, it's entirely possible the culprit is out among the community, "suggesting" things with just the right timing... Wouldn't that be a thriller?

But leaving that aside for the moment, are we to assume that this glitch in the mural was discovered by the leaker and used to fabricate a narrative about Isaac and the delayed Direct? It's... actually crazy. There's been so much stuff with this leak that just seems completely outrageously attentive. The more of it that surfaces, the harder I find it to believe that the culprit wouldn't have known about that blank mural. If this is fake, this was researched rigorously and thoroughly. I mean, I can't stress how Isaac literally ends EXACTLY there. You can give me an explanation for it, and I can understand that explanation logically and believe that explanation in my head, but it's just... absurd. So what's the other explanation?

The faker... lucked out? They happened to put Isaac in the EXACT spot where this takes place, accounting for any possible distortion in the photographing method? And that is, of course, all assuming the leak catches enough fire in the first place for someone to zoom this far in on the picture in the first place and use it for comparisons. It's an ENORMOUS coincidence. Yes, all of the individual renders would be on layers. Yes, the mural always cut there. But it's INCREDIBLY suspicious even so. What if there's a flaw in the assumption of how the mural is being handled? I find the idea that they might be doing something different with how they handle the renders much easier to swallow than the idea that this guy managed to line up this stuff THAT perfectly, or just happened to dumb luck his or her way into such an exact match.

But okay, let's go with the idea that it's a coincidence. In some ways, it COULD be more reasonable.. The idea that Nintendo is so low tech as to require themselves to crop out an entire character due to a delay seems very unlikely to me. Well then, what about our mystery item? The faker cannot possibly have involvement with that, or know that it was going to happen. Of all the potential items to have accidentally been shown, it happened to be one that pointed once again to Isaac, and even has a basis in the render of him considering the vines. But is it even that? Did the faker luck out again somehow, that this item just so happened to show up when it did and just so happened to give his meticulously planned narrative, which, mind you, the community had to piece together itself, a boost?

It's just too much for me. I can't buy the sheer number of coincidences piling on top of each other. The item, certainly, cannot be faked. That item exists, and is in the game, we know that for a fact. We do NOT know that it's Growth, but it certainly looks like it could be. But for Isaac to be in exactly that place on the mural, literally the only spot on the whole picture that could have produced the evidence it did, I do not believe that to be something that is simply a coincidence. It's the small, seemingly realistic movements of the characters on the banner that were one of the initially compelling pieces of evidence in favor of it. Characters were placed meticulously on the thing - if something was out of place, it could compromise the whole thing. And yet Isaac is there. It has to be for a reason.

And as I've said, Isaac's placement spawned a whole lot of the stuff that we went through today. When that shoe dropped, it shifted a lot of people's perceptions. Personal friends of mine saw it, and were shocked. Thought it was like a smoking gun for the thing. I saw plenty of posts on here about that shifting people over to the vaunted #teamreal. And of course, when alternative possible explanations surfaced, things cooled down - people didn't take it as nearly as strong of evidence. Or even evidence at all.

But the effect of the thing! It was palpable. Could someone have really set those pins up in order to, five days into the discussion, knock them down? Or could someone really have gotten lucky enough that, without them intending it, the placement of the ONE character who this narrative could surface around happened to be in the ONE spot that could make people think it's true? Honestly, NEITHER of these scenarios sound even remotely feasible to me. But neither does the roster this leak purports to reveal. This, to me, is what stands out about this leak and makes it a true piece of brilliance: it feels that it is equally impossible for this to be real, as it is for it to be fake.

Oh, and as for the green pixel thing... I think that was just silly.
 

Shroob

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So yeah.


This Nintendo Life 4chan post really seems fake as **** when you do some digging.


Isabelle was always intended to be tied to the reveal of the new AC game in September, this is obvious.


And the blog numbering system points to the fact that there was only going to be a single reveal in September.


The fact that Toon Link was thrown up almost instantly as a filler post(His post was 138), and Isabelle's memory is 137, REALLY gives me a big "HMMM".



The only thing that makes me stop is that blog post 134 is absent, but that's nothing new. We have a lot of missing single blog posts, and there's no way they were going to fit 2 newcomers in 4 posts.
 
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Paperchampion23

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So yeah.


This Nintendo Life 4chan post really seems fake as **** when you do some digging.


Isabelle was always intended to be tied to the reveal of the new AC game in September, this is obvious.


And the blog numbering system points to the fact that there was only going to be a single reveal in September.


The fact that Toon Link was thrown up almost instantly as a filler post(His post was 138), and Isabelle's memory is 137, REALLY gives me a big "HMMM".



The only thing that makes me stop is that blog post 134 is absent, but that's nothing new. We have a lot of missing single blog posts, and there's no way they were going to fit 2 newcomers in 4 posts.

Yeah if we are supposed to get 7-8 characters in November, it was just supposed to just be massive influx of newcomers likely in one direct. We'll see though. Another boring week....
 
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Shroob

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And I also agree.


The "Glitch" means nothing.


I saw the banner glitch after the 8.8 Direct, and I also saw it glitch after the September Direct, it literally means nothing, and I think MULTIPLE people have explained why.
 

Edink

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Moving a little a way from the topic.

Does nobody thinks that the position in Nintendo at the time of revealing characters is really messed up? I mean, if they reveal one character and place it in the banner, and that draw is similar to the Grinch Leak they prove it the leak true.

So... They reveal all the characters at once or they reveal slowly and make the directs obvious with 0 mistery involved.

(And I'm not saying that we will not hype about the characters, is only that in the point of view of Nintendo maybe is like that.)
 

Artorias

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Yeah in the case the leak is true, it's safe to assume that sakurai wanted to go out with a bang and the characters were always meant to be revealed this late, although I would have hoped that given that smash 4's roster leaked in the same time frame (45~ days before release) they would have left less things for the final reveals because of how much likely a big leak can happen the closest you get to release. Maybe they thought that doing the reveals on november 1st a day before the smash bundle release (that doesn't come with any info at all) and over a month away from the actual release of the game would still be a safe date
 

Shroob

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Yeah in the case the leak is true, it's safe to assume that sakurai wanted to go out with a bang and the characters were always meant to be revealed this late, although I would have hoped that given that smash 4's roster leaked in the same time frame (45~ days before release) they would have left less things for the final reveals because of how much likely a big leak can happen the closest you get to release. Maybe they thought that doing the reveals on november 1st a day before the smash bundle release (that doesn't come with any info at all) and over a month away from the actual release of the game would still be a safe date
If the Direct is November 1st, we'll hear about it today, no question.



But I'd place very good money that it's going to be November 8th like most of the people predicting it to be will be.



Game-specific Directs are always given roughly a 3 days notice unlike general Directs, so if we hear nothing today, then November 1st is 90% out of the cards.
 

N3ON

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Mystic's twitter is private now. Last thing he said was along the lines of how he'd been contacted and was no longer confident in some of his claims. So the insider cult got him, and they showed him The Truth™.

Plus the fanbase harassed the hell out of him.

Never forget. But thank god for me never closing tabs.

Screen Shot 2018-10-29 at 1.54.22 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-10-29 at 1.55.18 AM.png


I guess we'll see in a couple weeks how much or how little of this was total bogus.
 
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Paperchampion23

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Moving a little a way from the topic.

Does nobody thinks that the position in Nintendo at the time of revealing characters is really messed up? I mean, if they reveal one character and place it in the banner, and that draw is similar to the Grinch Leak they prove it the leak true.

So... They reveal all the characters at once or they reveal slowly and make the directs obvious with 0 mistery involved.

(And I'm not saying that we will not hype about the characters, is only that in the point of view of Nintendo maybe is like that.)
The thing is, while it's been leaked to a large population of people, we not Nintendos only group it's selling to. It will 100% be a surprise to many, many people.

I specifically talked to a gamestop employee yesterday, and they had no idea this leak was even going on until I mentioned it.

So no, I'm pretty sure Nintendo will still stick to the same plan, especially since they never altered and changed anything about E3 and that was leaked pretty heavily
 

Artorias

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If the Direct is November 1st, we'll hear about it today, no question.



But I'd place very good money that it's going to be November 8th like most of the people predicting it to be will be.



Game-specific Directs are always given roughly a 3 days notice unlike general Directs, so if we hear nothing today, then November 1st is 90% out of the cards.
Oh for sure it could also be next week. I personally hope it's not though, but it would make sense, specially if they announce it at that JP tournament next weekend.
I think later than next week is unlikely unless they want to draw all attention away from Pokemon Let's Go's release week.
 

Radical Bones

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This whole 'Insider' thing is really turning me off gaming journalism.

I still have the YouTubers that I like, but some of the big dawgs are acting like babies.
 

Iridium

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Now I'm hoping that JP tournament has more characters available in the game build, because the competitive character diversity over there with their top players is actually insane. At least, based on the mains of some of those players in Smash 4.

And, less than 39 days to go.
 
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Paperchampion23

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Mystic's twitter is private now. Last thing he said was along the lines of how he'd been contacted and was no longer confident in some of his claims. So the insider cult got him, and they showed him The Truth™.

Plus the fanbase harassed the hell out of him.

Never forget. But thank god for me never closing tabs.

View attachment 173238View attachment 173239

I guess we'll see in a couple weeks how much or how little of this was total bogus.

Plus, "elements were off" could LITERALLY be everything we've talked about already. Missing Incineroar, different background, etc. It doesn't mean the banner is fake, it could just mean it's different.

This could be exactly like ESRB where there was a glaring spelling error and Ness's design was completely unlike any previous version of the character before SSB4.

Good to know though. Team real still going strong and that's a very good thing for everyone
 

Shroob

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If we don't hear about a Direct either by the end of today or tomorrow, this entire week is more or less forfeit.


I know the "November 8th" date is what most people are pinning it as, but god this is going to feel like an eternity.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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If we don't hear about a Direct either by the end of today or tomorrow, this entire week is more or less forfeit.


I know the "November 8th" date is what most people are pinning it as, but god this is going to feel like an eternity.
Yeah, I'm starting to wish this whole "leak" didn't happen...
It would've easily made things go by faster...
 

Gyrom8

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If we don't hear about a Direct either by the end of today or tomorrow, this entire week is more or less forfeit.


I know the "November 8th" date is what most people are pinning it as, but god this is going to feel like an eternity.
I'd love a Halloween direct, but that's probably not happening.
 

Artorias

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Now I'm hoping that JP tournament has more characters available in the game build, because the competitive character diversity over there with top players is actually insane. At least, based on the mains of some of those players in Smash 4.

And, less than 39 days to go.
Forgive me if i'm wrong, but wasn't there speculation that it could even use the final build of the game given that it didn't say it was a trial version in the event unlike pokemon let's go's? People were using that to theorize we would get the final direct with all reveals before the tournament if that was true.
I hope it's an updated demo at least too, but if they aren't using the final version it's unlikely that they would update the demo for this
 
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