Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

I'm leaning toward real but I'm honestly going to be a little crushed if Banjo's not in. Especially after finally coming to terms with the end of the roster likely being Ken, Incinerorar and maybe Steve +Random SE rep.

Banjo getting in would just about right the wrongs of the buyout for me. Things would really come full circle for the 90's kids.That and the Kremlings return in Donkey Kong Country...and all will be healed and right in the world!

 

[Noipoi]

Worst thing about Wii U was having Wii in its name.

I mean, why?

They wanted to make a second Wii to keep tapping into the mega casual market.

It didn't work.

 

[Ridrool64]

I can't really say I think we're getting a Pokémon if the only reasons to believe so are because "we always do" (look how that turned out for Zelda last time, or Star Fox to a more debatable and arguable extent) and "this guy said so" (which, even if we assume that Incineroar isn't a bait character and the leakers know that it is present by virtue of them or their sources seeing its model, still has no evidence backing it to prove that Incineroar isn't just a Poké Ball summon, or Spirits enemy, in a "Ridley grabs Pikachu and does nothing" situation). Plus, with three Pokémon not in the last game, expecting a tenth kinda comes off as greedy.

The big difference between Incineroar and Ken that separates them is the Ken leak, and nothing like that exists for Incineroar. Nothing short of the reveal of Sakura or Akuma as Ryu's echo fighter could disprove it in a decisive manner.

On a similar note, this can be used against Mach Rider if this is fake; see the "we always do" argument, this time apply it to retroes.

 

[Heatswave]

I don't see why we wouldn't be

Perhaps they plan a massive reveal spree over the course of next month, like starting with 2 or 3 plus spirit mode in a direct and revealing two or three more each week of november... That would also explain why they held back so many characters till now and would give some breathing room for other content in the direct, not to mention it would create massive hype for the game right before it goes into sale...
(But thats possibly just being me wanting that many characters to be true )

 

[staindgrey]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........................

View attachment 172236

We all make mistakes.

Also, the Wii U was a console I really liked. The branding was just idiotic. I remember when I went to a K-mart at 2am for Black Friday to get the only black Wii U they had, and neither of the employees who helped me get it knew what the hell it was.

Like, it was that Christmas season's brand new console. From Nintendo. And they sold at at their store. Man, Nintendo ****ed up their marketing on that one.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This is a reasonable assumption to make. There is certainly something strange going on with this leak. I primarily believe it's the lack of Incineroar.

I'll say this now: Incineroar is in the game. Anyone with a fraction of insider knowledge knows this, which is why multiple people have come out and said it, including Mystic, who specifically said he's only saying what he's heard from multiple sources. It's just as much a well-known secret as Isabelle was before her reveal.

No, Incineroar is not leaker bait because the point of leaker bait is to catch leakers. It's in the name, bait. Why would Nintendo go and tell every insider's source that Incineroar is in the game when he isn't? The idea of it being a misinformation campaign is plausible, but to what end? Nintendo isn't able to pinpoint who's saying what if they tell everyone the same misinformation. It'd make more sense if we heard multiple Pokémon, but instead it's just Incineroar.

So, if Incineroar is in the game, why isn't he on the banner? That's the biggest question, and I'd say that's why insiders are doubting it. There is every reason to believe Incineroar is in this game. I believe some insiders believe that this leak is fake solely because it lacks Incineroar, who is a glaringly obvious omission. If this is the full banner, then why are characters missing?

Maybe it's not necessarily fake, but if it isn't, this is not the complete truth.

Look, if I can't argue conspiracy, you can't either.

That's a damn good point--Incineroar makes no sense as leaker bait. The one possibility I'm seeing is if there's only one source for Incineroar, and everybody fell for it--still put that in the slightly possible column, even though if these insiders are so confident they definitely have multiple sources. Could also be outdated information, but bait is pretty unlikely. And I think the idea of a misinformation campaign is too conspiratorial. It doesn't change my views, as I considered Incineroar as possible last character/DLC, even if the leak is true. But yeah, the only thing we know for certain is whatever's going on is ****ed up.

EDIT:

Worth remembering that Mewtwo was announced before Smash for Wii U came out.

I'm still of the opinion that whatever Nintendo announces at the Game Awards won't be Smash-related. They've got Metroid Prime 4, Bayonetta 3 and Fire Emblem Three Houses all coming in possibly 2019, and we know next to nothing about any of them. Smash isn't going to sell any more consoles for the Christmas season than it already is if they announce a DLC fighter there, but a slick trailer for a highly anticipated 2019 game might.

I just think it's too awkward announcing it day of/before, rather than a month or so before. "You know that game we want you to play tomorrow, here's one you can't play!"

 

[Noipoi]

I can't really say I think we're getting a Pokémon if the only reasons to believe so are because "we always do" (look how that turned out for Zelda last time, or Star Fox to a more debatable and arguable extent) and "this guy said so" (which, even if we assume that Incineroar isn't a bait character and the leakers know that it is present by virtue of them or their sources seeing its model, still has no evidence backing it to prove that Incineroar isn't just a Poké Ball summon, or Spirits enemy, in a "Ridley grabs Pikachu and does nothing" situation). Plus, with three Pokémon not in the last game, expecting a tenth kinda comes off as greedy.

The big difference between Incineroar and Ken that separates them is the Ken leak, and nothing like that exists for Incineroar. Nothing short of the reveal of Sakura or Akuma as Ryu's echo fighter could disprove it in a decisive manner.

On a similar note, this can be used against Mach Rider if this is fake; see the "we always do" argument, this time apply it to retroes.

It's greedy to want a character because that series already has several characters?

 

[Michele]

Oh my God, things are escalating. Firstly, this banner leak happens, then Marina PLV counters and tries to deconfirm this leak, and now Etika gets hacked...

I really hope Etika is fine

 

[staindgrey]

Smash 3ds had already released

I'm aware, but the DLC was still announced two months before the home console version released. Not everyone bought both games.

 

[Nekoo]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

People missed this but it's the most interesting part and Something to note.

The fact that he go out of his way to say "three Characters excluding DLC" makes me think that it's the rumors that Spawn-Wave known.
Three Characters base roster with the DLC being revealed at the VGA. He also says that DLC plan for all of 2019 is a given from his source.

 

[Z25]

This is a reasonable assumption to make. There is certainly something strange going on with this leak. I primarily believe it's the lack of Incineroar.

I'll say this now: Incineroar is in the game. Anyone with a fraction of insider knowledge knows this, which is why multiple people have come out and said it, including Mystic, who specifically said he's only saying what he's heard from multiple sources. It's just as much a well-known secret as Isabelle was before her reveal.

No, Incineroar is not leaker bait. The point of leaker bait is to catch leakers. It's in the name, bait. Why would Nintendo go and tell every insider's source that Incineroar is in the game when he isn't? The idea of it being a misinformation campaign is plausible, but what does that accomplish? Nintendo isn't able to pinpoint who's saying what if they tell everyone the same misinformation. It'd make more sense if we heard multiple Pokémon, but instead it's just Incineroar. I also doubt Nintendo would start a misinformation campaign right now in an attempt at damage control. They've proven to just ignore actual leaks, so why would they act so differently this time? And before you say "but Smash is special" and "they're handling leaks differently this time," we have no proof of that other than what boils down to PR statements. Even then, aspects of the E3 reveal got leaked even when Sakurai said they didn't, so their "leak protection" isn't as great as they say it is.

So, if Incineroar is in the game, why isn't he on the banner? That's the biggest question, and I'd say that's why insiders are doubting it. There is every reason to believe Incineroar is in this game. I believe some insiders believe that this leak is fake solely because it lacks Incineroar, who is a glaringly obvious omission. If this is the full banner, then why are characters missing?

Maybe it's not necessarily fake, but if it isn't, this is not the complete truth.

Look, if I can't argue conspiracy, you can't either.

Hey I never said you couldn’t. I’m all for conspiracies in games

 

[Naiko3232]

is still impressive the amount of work if the leak turns out to be fake

 

[papagenos]

Without compromising anything, can you elaborate at all to give a sense of how firm your Microsoft source is for Banjo? Like were they able to prove their credentials and have they described at all what they saw that's telling them Banjo is in?

I'm leaning toward real but I'm honestly going to be a little crushed if Banjo's not in. Especially after finally coming to terms with the end of the roster likely being Ken, Incinerorar and maybe Steve +Random SE rep.

I have seen NOTHING myself for proof of banjo beyond the fact my source believes their microsoft source and i believe my source is credible.

i will also say that before this banner leak, when box theory/vergeben was running rampant, my source thought this because their microsoft source had told them for sure banjo was in:

"i was firmly in the Ken/Inceneroar/Isabelle camp for the entire time and mostly discredited everything else. The SE rep was 50/50 , and i figured Banjo was DLC. "

i posted this before but ill post it again here, my source also said this about banjo:

"The Microsoft source had heard of all of the characters in this leak, but haven't had any solid proof and weren't sure to believe it until now. The only one they were sure on was Banjo, now they are sure on all. "

those are quotes from my conversation with my source, i have personally not seen anything for sure BUT i do very much so trust my source and they trust their microsoft source who has apparently ALWAYS been sure about banjo.

 

[Jetsurge]

Oh my God, things are escalating. Firstly, this banner leak happens, then Marina PLV counters and tries to deconfirm this leak, and now Etika gets hacked...

I really hope Etika is fine

Your forgetting the Golden Sun item leaked from the new advert.

 

[ChronoKatie]

So papagenos : Just so I have it clear. Someone who you know is the real self and a trustworthy person told you that they know for a fact Banjo is in and that they also hear these other exact 6 + Incineroar?

Edit - My apologies! You posted it above, so I am just being redundant.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Hey I never said you couldn’t. I’m all for conspiracies in games

I'm saying that I've been knocked for arguing conspiracies in the past, so if I can't do it, you can't either. Besides that, the conspiracy makes no sense at all.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

People missed this but it's the most interesting part and Something to note.

The fact that he go out of his way to say "three Characters excluding DLC" makes me think that it's the rumors that Spawn-Wave known.
Three Characters base roster with the DLC being revealed at the VGA. He also says that DLC plan for all of 2019 is a given from his source.

So we're looking at 3 - 7 more characters, huh?

I'm happy with that. Hopefully we get more than expected. I'm going to bed now. Hopefully it'll be a bit more calm when I wake up.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

We all make mistakes.

Also, the Wii U was a console I really liked. The branding was just idiotic. I remember when I went to a K-mart at 2am for Black Friday to get the only black Wii U they had, and neither of the employees who helped me get it knew what the hell it was.

Like, it was that Christmas season's brand new console. From Nintendo. And they sold at at their store. Man, Nintendo ****ed up their marketing on that one.

The way it was marketed in the beginning killed it, thankfully, Nintendo put it out to pasture earlier than usual and focused everything on the Switch and we're all better off for it.

The Wii U was marketed early on like it was an accessory to the Wii, people got confused and with the weak-ish launch line up that pretty much killed any chance to gain momentum, before anything could be rectified by then the horse had bolted.

Such an underappreciated, underrated and overshadowed console with a ton of gems., that is only getting some good recognition via some ports. Not too dissimilar to the Gamecube in terms of being somewhat of an afterthought due to other circumstances.

 

[Chrono.]

It's kinda funny.

If you add Incineroar to the banner that'd be 8 characters.

Now, if you take the box theory, but spin it around so that the original 8 are on the back of the box, you could fit this roster in there.

Box theory confirmed. Just not the one we thought.

I'm not being remotely serious with this

 

[staindgrey]

I just think it's too awkward announcing it day of/before, rather than a month or so before. "You know that game we want you to play tomorrow, here's one you can't play!"

I totally agree, but I feel like I've seen it before. It's late though and nothing's coming to mind. Most recent thing I can think of is Ubisoft saying that Assassin's Creed 3 will be remastered as part of the Odyssey season pass like a week before that launched.

But companies are getting ballsy the last few years with their DLC shenanigans. I still don't understand people who preorder $40 season passes when the company hasn't even told you what's in it yet.

 

[Nekoo]

It's kinda funny.

If you add Incineroar to the banner that'd be 8 characters.

Now, if you take the box theory, but spin it around so that the original 8 are on the back of the box, you could fit this roster in there.

Box theory confirmed. Just not the one we thought.

I'm not being remotely serious with this

CHRONO STOP YOU DON'T REALIZE THE POWER YOU UNLEASHED!

 

[Michele]

Your forgetting the Golden Sun item leaked from the new advert.

Wait, what?!

Can I please get a image immediately?!

 

[osby]

Your forgetting the Golden Sun item leaked from the new advert.

We don't know if it's certainly from Golden Sun.

 

[FixedFun]

I mean, this could be Sakurai's last Smash for real, he might as well put a lot characters, stages and items, so this game can survive years and years without a sequel.

 

[N3ON]

I have seen NOTHING myself for proof of banjo beyond the fact my source believes their microsoft source and i believe my source is credible.

i will also say that before this banner leak, when box theory/vergeben was running rampant, my source thought this because their microsoft source had told them for sure banjo was in:

"i was firmly in the Ken/Inceneroar/Isabelle camp for the entire time and mostly discredited everything else. The SE rep was 50/50 , and i figured Banjo was DLC. "

i posted this before but ill post it again here, my source also said this about banjo:

"The Microsoft source had heard of all of the characters in this leak, but haven't had any solid proof and weren't sure to believe it until now. The only one they were sure on was Banjo, now they are sure on all. "

those are quotes from my conversation with my source, i have personally not seen anything for sure BUT i do very much so trust my source and they trust their microsoft source who has apparently ALWAYS been sure about banjo.

Does your source have anything to say about the Minecraft claims? Seems like if anyone would know about that stuff, it'd be them.

 

[doomedtacox]

This is a reasonable assumption to make. There is certainly something strange going on with this leak. I primarily believe it's the lack of Incineroar.

I'll say this now: Incineroar is in the game. Anyone with a fraction of insider knowledge knows this, which is why multiple people have come out and said it, including Mystic, who specifically said he's only saying what he's heard from multiple sources. It's just as much a well-known secret as Isabelle was before her reveal.

No, Incineroar is not leaker bait. The point of leaker bait is to catch leakers. It's in the name, bait. Why would Nintendo go and tell every insider's source that Incineroar is in the game when he isn't? The idea of it being a misinformation campaign is plausible, but what does that accomplish? Nintendo isn't able to pinpoint who's saying what if they tell everyone the same misinformation. It'd make more sense if we heard multiple Pokémon, but instead it's just Incineroar. I also doubt Nintendo would start a misinformation campaign right now in an attempt at damage control. They've proven to just ignore actual leaks, so why would they act so differently this time? And before you say "but Smash is special" and "they're handling leaks differently this time," we have no proof of that other than what boils down to PR statements. Even then, aspects of the E3 reveal got leaked even when Sakurai said they didn't, so their "leak protection" isn't as great as they say it is.

So, if Incineroar is in the game, why isn't he on the banner? That's the biggest question, and I'd say that's why insiders are doubting it. There is every reason to believe Incineroar is in this game. I believe some insiders believe that this leak is fake solely because it lacks Incineroar, who is a glaringly obvious omission. If this is the full banner, then why are characters missing?

Maybe it's not necessarily fake, but if it isn't, this is not the complete truth.

Look, if I can't argue conspiracy, you can't either.

What does it accomplish? It throws people off the trail of other characters and makes people automatically skeptical of leaks not involving Incineroar. Look at how big of a ****show Incineroar not being in the Grinch leak has caused. That's exactly what Nintendo wants.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'm saying that I've been knocked for arguing conspiracies in the past, so if I can't do it, you can't either. Besides that, the conspiracy makes no sense at all.

So we're looking at 3 - 7 more characters, huh?

I'm happy with that. Hopefully we get more than expected. I'm going to bed now. Hopefully it'll be a bit more calm when I wake up.

Even if the 7 one was correct, that would still contradict the leak, if three were echoes, as specified. That, to me, is the biggest huh so far.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

The way it was marketed in the beginning killed it, thankfully, Nintendo put it out to pasture earlier than usual and focused everything on the Switch and we're all better off for it.

The Wii U was marketed early on like it was an accessory to the Wii, people got confused and with the weak-ish launch line up that pretty much killed any chance to gain momentum, before anything could be rectified by then the horse had bolted.

Such an underappreciated, underrated and overshadowed console with a ton of gems., that is only getting some good recognition via some ports. Not too dissimilar to the Gamecube in terms of being somewhat of an afterthought due to other circumstances.

Pretty much. The console itself was perfectly fine, it's just Nintendo itself and 3rd party companies didn't know what to do with it. At least a lot of the great hits it had are remembered through the Switch.

 

[Naiko3232]

I mean we can just ask Phill Spencer, he's kinda cool, like a chill Reggie

 

[staindgrey]

The way it was marketed in the beginning killed it, thankfully, Nintendo put it out to pasture earlier than usual and focused everything on that Switch and we're all better of for it.

The Wii U was marketed early on like it was an accessory to the Wii, people got confused and with the weak-ish launch line up that pretty much killed any chance to gain momentum before anything could be fixed the horse had bolted.

Such an underappreciated, underrated and overshadowed console with a ton of gems. Not too dissimilar to the Gamecube.

I liken it more to the Dreamcast, just because regardless of any of the other factors, what really killed it was a new Sony console coming out the very next year and the Dreamcast/Wii U being too underpowered to justify a purchase. The Gamecube lost that generation because it was specifically marketed to kids and Nintendo lost a ton of third-party support. The Wii U just released at the exact wrong time and banked too hard on the "Wii" name.

And yeah, its launch titles sucked. What'd it have, ZombiU, a couple Ubisoft ports and Mass Effect 3 after everyone already knew the ending?

 

[Serebii]

Wait, why am I being discredited?

 

[Noipoi]

It's kinda funny.

If you add Incineroar to the banner that'd be 8 characters.

Now, if you take the box theory, but spin it around so that the original 8 are on the back of the box, you could fit this roster in there.

Box theory confirmed. Just not the one we thought.

I'm not being remotely serious with this

Did I just witness the birth of

POSITIVE BOX THEORY???

 

[Michele]

Wait, why am I being discredited?

Peoples are discrediting you because you don't believe the banner leak is true.

 

[Jetsurge]

Wait, what?!

Can I please get a image immediately?!

apparently the item is from Tret. It is a tree turning humans into plants.

Smash -

Golden Sun -

 

[Ridrool64]

Well, I mean that's the most common argument as to why people shouldn't want a Fire Emblem character. It and of itself is mostly an "ad hominem" deal where it's not really wrong to want it or even expect it. But, thing is, Pokémon just got 3 characters back. Pichu is at least only arguably worthwhile, but good luck trying to disprove the worth of Squirtle and Ivysaur. That is more than most series got, even with newcomers, and what some up-and-coming series have.

It's probably not truly greedy as in "you don't need this, shut up" as much as it is "we're kinda just used to it, so the idea of the status quo being shaken up doesn't appear to me" tier. After all, wanting in a THIRD SEGA series? Who am I to judge on that level?

 

[Nekoo]

Wait, why am I being discredited?

Because you're part of the evil group of Insiders whenever you know or don't know stuff and people didn't read your message about how insiders work

i actually believe you btw.

 

[CosmicQuark]

It's kinda funny.

If you add Incineroar to the banner that'd be 8 characters.

Now, if you take the box theory, but spin it around so that the original 8 are on the back of the box, you could fit this roster in there.

Box theory confirmed. Just not the one we thought.

I'm not being remotely serious with this

I like it, but I can't help but ask where Dark Samus would fit.

I know, but I had the same thought before immediately tossing it, it lines up too perfectly

 

[ReeseBalaski]

Wait, why am I being discredited?

You've been found to have a credit score below 300. Your ability to use your credit cards (among other credit devices) will be terminated until further notice.

/s

 

[Noipoi]

Well, I mean that's the most common argument as to why people shouldn't want a Fire Emblem character. It and of itself is mostly an "ad hominem" deal where it's not really wrong to want it or even expect it. But, thing is, Pokémon just got 3 characters back. Pichu is at least only arguably worthwhile, but good luck trying to disprove the worth of Squirtle and Ivysaur. That is more than most series got, even with newcomers, and what some up-and-coming series have.

It's probably not truly greedy as in "you don't need this, shut up" as much as it is "we're kinda just used to it, so the idea of the status quo being shaken up doesn't appear to me" tier. After all, wanting in a THIRD SEGA series? Who am I to judge on that level?

I understand your point, but I don't want Incineroar to fill a quota. I just like him.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

apparently the item is from Tret. It is a tree turning humans into plants.

Smash -
View attachment 172237

Golden Sun -
View attachment 172238

Ok but seriously you guys need to stop using the overlayed image, its misleading

 

[TheAnvil]

Even if the 7 one was correct, that would still contradict the leak, if three were echoes, as specified. That, to me, is the biggest huh so far.

Maybe Mach is an echo