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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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CosmicQuark

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Don't know the details exactly but according to folks at said company where this banner leak came from there's a character missing on the banner.


This should give you more insight on it.
I've watched the video, but I don't remember anything about the company that the leak came from mentioning a missing character. I don't even think there'd be any reason for them to. I think the missing character comes from Spawn Wave, who said if the leak is true there's a missing character (outside of Incineroar).
 
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TheAJJohnson

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This is exactly what I was just talking about. This is the fifth time I've had to explain this very image.

No offense meant to you here, but, like, this image is demonstrably false but is being continually spread. The Wendy's Ad is not an updated banner. In fact, it's an outdated banner. It's the E3 banner, and the section that's been highlighted by this image is assuming, wrongfully, that Megaman has never moved between the three banners. He is in an entirely different place in all three images and, as such, the background behind him is different. Look at the floor and you'll see his feet are planted in different places.
It's not the E3 banner, it's the post-8.8.18 banner.
 

Mutsukki

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Gonna address this argument:

"Just because there's a Golden Sun item, doesn't mean Isaac is playable. Also, Lip has an item, and she's not playable".

If this new item is from Golden Sun, that means Sakurai added an item from a dormant franchise for (seemingly) no reason. I find that highly suspect. Also, Lip's item was added back when she was still relevant.
Lip, or Panel de Pon for that matter, wasn't, in any way or form, relevant back in Melee era, I can tell you as much. By that time it was a one off puzzle game that for whatever reason got changed to Yoshi and Pokemon licenses
 

Misery Brick

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It's honestly likely Incineroar.
Anybody think Incineroar was possibly just like Skull Kid?
A red herring?

I’m not saying that he can’t be the final character, assuming the banner is real, I just think that if anything he’s one of the few characters that’d make sense as one.
Especially since everyone expects a Pokémon on the roster, and the fact that starters are popular contenders.
I’d be happy if Incineroar fans actually got him though, but he seems to be something that’d make a lot of sense to me as a fake character to crack down on leaks with.

(or the possibility he’s outdated info, if he isn’t in the game after all)
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Gonna address this argument:

"Just because there's a Golden Sun item, doesn't mean Isaac is playable. Also, Lip has an item, and she's not playable".

If this new item is from Golden Sun, that means Sakurai added an item from a dormant franchise for (seemingly) no reason. I find that highly suspect. Also, Lip's item was added back when she was still relevant.
Don't forget Nintendo renewed the Golden Sun franchise. Coincidence?
 

SigmaMewtwo

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Uh, I'm a bit bored so I'll expand on @drag0nscythe's idea. List your top 5 favorite and least favorite characters in SSBU. Explanations are fine, but not needed.

Favorite: :ultlink::ultgreninja::ultlucario::ultmewtwo::ultsonic:

Least Favorite: :ultdaisy::ultpeach::ultinkling::ultisabelle::ultwario: (this all could change)

What about you?
This is only based on playstyles (from previous games for vets, and potentials for newcomers), not necessarily how I feel about the characters themselves. This is subject to change for me once Ultimate releases, and I'll only be working with officially confirmed characters:

Favorite: :ultpeach::ultmewtwo::ultmegaman::ultsimon::ultridley:

Least favorite: :ultsheik::ultbayonetta::ultolimar::ultvillager::ultmiifighters:
 

PhilosophicAnimal

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GONNA PUT A TIN FOIL HAT ON TO THIS GRINCH LEAK BECAUSE I HAVE A THEORY

Many people pointed the criticisms of the background art of Battlefield but..

what if I told yall that the art...
is an EARLY VERSION??

Dun dun DDUUUUNN

First, you may ask. Why are you doing this? Well because I can and I want to think it out of the box.

So here is my points:
* Eric seems to work at Marina UNTIL 2016. You know happened during that time, Ultimate's development. You see, Sakurai mention that they began making Ultimate after Smash 4, which is around 2015-2016. It should be noted that the character is probably finalized at that moment. You know else it need development time? Art! With characters finalized during that time, they began creating concept art/sketches and prototypes for the background art and character art. If it seems to be true that he works in the 2016, then it makes a TON of sense that the background looks...incomplete, and that the shadows suddenly disappeared; its because they are still in the early stages.

You may also wonder, why do he POST the leak recently? Well, if Eric claims that he is NOT responsible for showing the leak, then it must be someone. I feel like some employee from the Marina project caught the code from the garbage, a friend, or a close relation to Eric, stole it, and print the leak out. It makes sense why he tried to scribble the name of the OG name of the worker because he isnt there nor he is involved. He does not want to spread misinformation about Eric. That is why Eric posting SnapChat image of the leak makes no sense since he is in his 50s and doesnt care about leaks, but the founder did and tried to spread it all.

PUTS TIN FOIL HAT OFF.
You know...this brings up an interesting thought: we've sort of been assuming the mural has been having characters added to it this whole time, and that they're doing that over a completed blank background, which would make a ton of sense if you had planned to add each character from the beginning. Of course you'd do that, as layers and so forth would help a ridiculous amount.

But...what if it's actually reversed? What if the entire mural was completed first, and characters were taken out of it so they could be kept secret?

Think about it: these aren't renders, they're drawn art. And many of them, quite a FEW of them, interact with each other. A notable example is Chrom, a character not revealed until later, is looking down at Robin, who was already there. This implies that the entire mural was planned and drawn all at once, to be a cohesive whole. That would be the easiest way to make sure the style and forms meshed together correctly, and also that the background would be the right size for everyone to fit correctly when it was done. I daresay it's the only way you could do that, but I won't say that's definite.

Either way, this could explain why the background is inconsistent--they drew the mural directly onto it, and after cutting characters out, they had to edit it to fill the spaces.

This is a bit reachy, I know. And I'm also aware that many pieces of art are also used for the cover art, which would suggest they were drawn separately. But it's possible those were cut out specifically for the boxart. I just find it odd to consider the mural characters were drawn completely separate, especially when you've got things like Wario and Dedede reacting to PT, and Dr. Mario checking G&W's vitals.

Usually I stay away from background discussion...but I thought I'd throw this in to see what you all think. It's got holes, and I'm sure it'll be blasted apart. But I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet, so why not, for the sake of discussion?:p
 

Dukeofdeath5

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Well there are rumors of two Directs happening in November. I could see them revealing all of them in both. Maybe 4 in the first then 4 in the second.
IDK man call me a pessimist but this simply doesn't line up for me. Like, what would even have been the point of holding off so much on the blog and between directs if you have THIS much you can unload. People would be experiencing non stop euphoria if this info was spread out and I feel like Sakurai is more than smart enough to know that

Or maybe they just gonna splurge in the last month

IDK but I ain't holding my breath
 

Michael the Spikester

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Anybody think Incineroar was possibly just like Skull Kid?
A red herring?

I’m not saying that he can’t be the final character, assuming the banner is real, I just think that if anything he’s one of the few characters that’d make sense as one.
Especially since everyone expects a Pokémon on the roster, and the fact that starters are popular contenders.
I’d be happy if Incineroar fans actually got him though, but he seems to be something that’d make a lot of sense to me as a fake character to crack down on leaks with.
Reason I believe Incineroar is due to the trend of each Smash game getting a new Pokemon and retro newcomer.

Melee: :ultpichu::ultmewtwo::ulticeclimbers::ultgnw:
Brawl::ultpokemontrainer::ultlucario::ultpit::ultrob:
Sm4sh::ultgreninja::ultlittlemac::ultduckhunt:
 
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Wiziliz

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I'm becoming weaker.
I was listening to music and imagining the perfect scenario for these amazing characters to join in the story, and I pictured a scene of the lot of them fighting the final boss (Spirit Hand?), and the final (base) characters join as they all formed into groups, a comedic group featuring Wario, King Dedede, the Chorus Kids, an adventurous group featuring Fox, Falco, Toon Link, Link, Pit, Palutena, Donkey Kong, the RPG group with Isaac, the Fire Emblem characters, Cloud, Shulk, the memory group featuring Young Link, Banjo-Kazooie, Captain Falcon, Ness, Mach Rider, R.O.B., Ice Climbers. Three characters are left in a small group, however. Mario, Peach and Bowser. Of course, Mario instantly recognizes the beam that shoots past them attacking the final villain, and turning around, sees Geno join them. This reuniting event has to happen, please, please don't be lying, Grinch!
I need the Direct to be in the first half of next month otherwise I'm afraid I'll go insane. If Mach Rider is confirmed, the Grinch leak will be true. That would be the greatest day since Ridley's reveal. Banjo-Kazooie, Mach Rider, Geno. You can make it.
 

Inawordyes

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Has anybody talked about this as a possibility here in the main thread yet? From the Skull Kid support thread:




You can see the heart shape of the mask where it gets narrow on the bottom.

You see the two big eyes the right space apart

You can see the spikes coming out of the mask on both the top and bottom.

Now look to the right of him after where someone drew the black circle line, you can see what looks to be a purple fairy with wings (Tael)

Skull Kid looks like he's sitting staring at Tael
 

Chrono.

...
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Has anybody talked about this as a possibility here in the main thread yet? From the Skull Kid support thread:
That's just Mach Rider's bike.

...

Or for my sake I hope it is. I don't wanna be the next Shulk is Little Mac guy lol.
 

Ganon K. Roolenstein

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Lip, or Panel de Pon for that matter, wasn't, in any way or form, relevant back in Melee era, I can tell you as much. By that time it was a one off puzzle game that for whatever reason got changed to Yoshi and Pokemon licenses
Yeah, you're right, I just checked. My b. But I still find it weird that Sakurai would add just a Golden Sun item and not Isaac, considering how requested he is, and the game's theme of fanservice picks.
 

vaanrose

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You know...this brings up an interesting thought: we've sort of been assuming the mural has been having characters added to it this whole time, and that they're doing that over a completed blank background, which would make a ton of sense if you had planned to add each character from the beginning. Of course you'd do that, as layers and so forth would help a ridiculous amount.

But...what if it's actually reversed? What if the entire mural was completed first, and characters were taken out of it so they could be kept secret?

Think about it: these aren't renders, they're drawn art. And many of them, quite a FEW of them, interact with each other. A notable example is Chrom, a character not revealed until later, is looking down at Robin, who was already there. This implies that the entire mural was planned and drawn all at once, to be a cohesive whole. That would be the easiest way to make sure the style and forms meshed together correctly, and also that the background would be the right size for everyone to fit correctly when it was done. I daresay it's the only way you could do that, but I won't say that's definite.

Either way, this could explain why the background is inconsistent--they drew the mural directly onto it, and after cutting characters out, they had to edit it to fill the spaces.

This is a bit reachy, I know. And I'm also aware that many pieces of art are also used for the cover art, which would suggest they were drawn separately. But it's possible those were cut out specifically for the boxart. I just find it odd to consider the mural characters were drawn completely separate, especially when you've got things like Wario and Dedede reacting to PT, and Dr. Mario checking G&W's vitals.

Usually I stay away from background discussion...but I thought I'd throw this in to see what you all think. It's got holes, and I'm sure it'll be blasted apart. But I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet, so why not, for the sake of discussion?:p
I've always been under the assumption it was designed as a full banner and then characters were removed.

However, there's almost no chance they painted the mural finished without layers. You use layers even if you aren't planning on releasing a different version. The non-destructive workflow is the biggest thing digital artwork has over traditional artwork.
 
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Wiziliz

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Man, I would love for Tabuu to come back...
I'm interested in Spirit Hand. The game is celebrating the spirit of Smash Bros. (especially if the Grinch leak is true), so it'd be interesting to see how the final boss would be!
Tabuu would definitely work to return as a second final boss. Maybe have it seem like he's the final boss.
I remember a while ago someone making a video talking about a playable Tabuu, but he'd be so much better as a boss.
 

Michael the Spikester

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1st November Direct: Incineroar, Mach Rider, Chorus Kids, Ken
2nd November Direct: Isaac, Geno, Banjo-Kazooie, Shadow

If I had to predict if this banner leak is true.
 
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Mutsukki

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You know...this brings up an interesting thought: we've sort of been assuming the mural has been having characters added to it this whole time, and that they're doing that over a completed blank background, which would make a ton of sense if you had planned to add each character from the beginning. Of course you'd do that, as layers and so forth would help a ridiculous amount.

But...what if it's actually reversed? What if the entire mural was completed first, and characters were taken out of it so they could be kept secret?

Think about it: these aren't renders, they're drawn art. And many of them, quite a FEW of them, interact with each other. A notable example is Chrom, a character not revealed until later, is looking down at Robin, who was already there. This implies that the entire mural was planned and drawn all at once, to be a cohesive whole. That would be the easiest way to make sure the style and forms meshed together correctly, and also that the background would be the right size for everyone to fit correctly when it was done. I daresay it's the only way you could do that, but I won't say that's definite.

Either way, this could explain why the background is inconsistent--they drew the mural directly onto it, and after cutting characters out, they had to edit it to fill the spaces.

This is a bit reachy, I know. And I'm also aware that many pieces of art are also used for the cover art, which would suggest they were drawn separately. But it's possible those were cut out specifically for the boxart. I just find it odd to consider the mural characters were drawn completely separate, especially when you've got things like Wario and Dedede reacting to PT, and Dr. Mario checking G&W's vitals.

Usually I stay away from background discussion...but I thought I'd throw this in to see what you all think. It's got holes, and I'm sure it'll be blasted apart. But I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet, so why not, for the sake of discussion?:p
I wouldn't say you're reaching, more like you're a bit on the dark on how the drawing process would actually work in this case.

For one, you're absolutely right the finished mural was the first thing done and that characters were removed for different reveals at different times. I didn't think there was any doubt about that seeing that the final composition is probably very well done.

Now, the problem with this is: You bring up that the characters could have been drawn separately, but for some reason back out on that. I can assure you, with 100% certainity, that each character has it's own photoshop layer and were all drawn seperately like that. It doesn't mean they weren't made inside the same piece, but they clearly were made in different layers, so they could be moved around and removed at will. With that set, the background was also drawn in it's entirety without any characters obscuring it. We can see that very clearly on how the E3 screens for the splash art worked, since they start as a barren battleground with characters that keep popping up. So there's no chance that they had to redraw it because it makes no sense, no professional artist would do something like that.
 
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Inawordyes

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That's just Mach Rider's bike.

...

Or for my sake I hope it is. I don't wanna be the next Shulk is Little Mac guy lol.
I'm aware, there's intense debate even over there between the people who see the bike and people who see Majora. I can see where it definitely looks like the mask and Tael there, though. But like with PapaGeno, he said that his souce had heard everybody in the leak + Incineroar, but nothing about Skull Kid, and Skull Kid is not on the 4chan text leak.
 

Dukeofdeath5

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I completely ****ing missed Isaac in there. 8 characters left, 6 of which are uniques

WHEN

HOW

WHY NOT EARLIER

Was the ****ing Earthquake theory real the hell is happening
 

CosmicQuark

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You know...this brings up an interesting thought: we've sort of been assuming the mural has been having characters added to it this whole time, and that they're doing that over a completed blank background, which would make a ton of sense if you had planned to add each character from the beginning. Of course you'd do that, as layers and so forth would help a ridiculous amount.

But...what if it's actually reversed? What if the entire mural was completed first, and characters were taken out of it so they could be kept secret?

Think about it: these aren't renders, they're drawn art. And many of them, quite a FEW of them, interact with each other. A notable example is Chrom, a character not revealed until later, is looking down at Robin, who was already there. This implies that the entire mural was planned and drawn all at once, to be a cohesive whole. That would be the easiest way to make sure the style and forms meshed together correctly, and also that the background would be the right size for everyone to fit correctly when it was done. I daresay it's the only way you could do that, but I won't say that's definite.

Either way, this could explain why the background is inconsistent--they drew the mural directly onto it, and after cutting characters out, they had to edit it to fill the spaces.

This is a bit reachy, I know. And I'm also aware that many pieces of art are also used for the cover art, which would suggest they were drawn separately. But it's possible those were cut out specifically for the boxart. I just find it odd to consider the mural characters were drawn completely separate, especially when you've got things like Wario and Dedede reacting to PT, and Dr. Mario checking G&W's vitals.

Usually I stay away from background discussion...but I thought I'd throw this in to see what you all think. It's got holes, and I'm sure it'll be blasted apart. But I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet, so why not, for the sake of discussion?:p
I think there's some merit to thinking this could have been from 2016-ish. What made me think it was recent was the Grinch promotional materials as well, though since that's an animated move that takes a long time to make as well (however, the first teaser did come out this year). It could also explain why some characters could potentially be missing (though--we're starting to get even way too many more characters, I feel like we can't push it any more than there is). And really, the company's response mainly focused on the fact he hasn't worked there since 2016. Another downside is it's hard for me to believe this leak could have surfaced at any point since 2016, and it's just now coming out--too coincidental.

I don't particularly buy it, though I think it's a possibility.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I completely ****ing missed Isaac in there. 8 characters left, 6 of which are uniques

WHEN

HOW

WHY NOT EARLIER

Was the ****ing Earthquake theory real the hell is happening
If true I'm glad they held off Isaac's reveal because last thing we needed were people intensively saying that the earthquake predicted Isaac.
 
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papagenos

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You know...this brings up an interesting thought: we've sort of been assuming the mural has been having characters added to it this whole time, and that they're doing that over a completed blank background, which would make a ton of sense if you had planned to add each character from the beginning. Of course you'd do that, as layers and so forth would help a ridiculous amount.

But...what if it's actually reversed? What if the entire mural was completed first, and characters were taken out of it so they could be kept secret?

Think about it: these aren't renders, they're drawn art. And many of them, quite a FEW of them, interact with each other. A notable example is Chrom, a character not revealed until later, is looking down at Robin, who was already there. This implies that the entire mural was planned and drawn all at once, to be a cohesive whole. That would be the easiest way to make sure the style and forms meshed together correctly, and also that the background would be the right size for everyone to fit correctly when it was done. I daresay it's the only way you could do that, but I won't say that's definite.

Either way, this could explain why the background is inconsistent--they drew the mural directly onto it, and after cutting characters out, they had to edit it to fill the spaces.

This is a bit reachy, I know. And I'm also aware that many pieces of art are also used for the cover art, which would suggest they were drawn separately. But it's possible those were cut out specifically for the boxart. I just find it odd to consider the mural characters were drawn completely separate, especially when you've got things like Wario and Dedede reacting to PT, and Dr. Mario checking G&W's vitals.

Usually I stay away from background discussion...but I thought I'd throw this in to see what you all think. It's got holes, and I'm sure it'll be blasted apart. But I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet, so why not, for the sake of discussion?:p

wow.

ok im on board with this.

makes a TON of sense to "fill" the empty space as they had to make banners WITHOUT characters, not the other way around.

this is actually pretty genius.
 

Aerospherology

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The only reason why there hasn't been any Directs or anything like that this month is because they're debating on who to sacrifice as number 69 to the Internet.
 

JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL

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You know...this brings up an interesting thought: we've sort of been assuming the mural has been having characters added to it this whole time, and that they're doing that over a completed blank background, which would make a ton of sense if you had planned to add each character from the beginning. Of course you'd do that, as layers and so forth would help a ridiculous amount.

But...what if it's actually reversed? What if the entire mural was completed first, and characters were taken out of it so they could be kept secret?

Think about it: these aren't renders, they're drawn art. And many of them, quite a FEW of them, interact with each other. A notable example is Chrom, a character not revealed until later, is looking down at Robin, who was already there. This implies that the entire mural was planned and drawn all at once, to be a cohesive whole. That would be the easiest way to make sure the style and forms meshed together correctly, and also that the background would be the right size for everyone to fit correctly when it was done. I daresay it's the only way you could do that, but I won't say that's definite.

Either way, this could explain why the background is inconsistent--they drew the mural directly onto it, and after cutting characters out, they had to edit it to fill the spaces.

This is a bit reachy, I know. And I'm also aware that many pieces of art are also used for the cover art, which would suggest they were drawn separately. But it's possible those were cut out specifically for the boxart. I just find it odd to consider the mural characters were drawn completely separate, especially when you've got things like Wario and Dedede reacting to PT, and Dr. Mario checking G&W's vitals.

Usually I stay away from background discussion...but I thought I'd throw this in to see what you all think. It's got holes, and I'm sure it'll be blasted apart. But I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet, so why not, for the sake of discussion?:p
I

SWEET JESUS WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT.
 

Metal Shop X

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Alright, I been sleeping for hours, what did I miss? Is the Grinch Leak or whatever is still alive?
 

JoyStar

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What if this is the "missing" character?
That's what I'm hoping, personally. Makes more sense than Incineroar and it would be great to have a new Zelda rep, especially given that the Moon is an Assist Trophy now and if Young Link's Final Smash is Fierce Deity, Skull Kid could be a great counterpart.
 
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