Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Now that I know that a ballot can and will be used for future games there's nothing stopping me from voting for Charmy Bee Ashley.
I made that mistake three years ago, never again.

 

[StarLight42]

Ken is boring and I hate Incineroar. If these are really the last two reveals then wow what a hype killer. Why wouldn't they save at least Ridley or K. Rool for last?

 

[Iridium]

It's kinda sad seeing everyone jump on each other like there's no tomorrow. Seems like we need info soon.

 

[kylexv]

I think this sums up the state of this thread quite nicely:

 

[Will]

Seriously everyone, there's no reason to be at each other's throats here.

DID YOU JUST ASSUME I COULD BE WRONG?!?

I'LL MAKE SURE YOUR MOST WANTED IS LOW TIER, BUB

Ken is boring and I hate Incineroar. If these are really the last two reveals then wow what a hype killer. Why wouldn't they save at least Ridley or K. Rool for last?

Because one of them was at the biggest gameshow in the world and why would they care to do that? They never did it before, they'll likely never do it now.

 

[Dixie Kong]

Why would we believe Ken would be one of the two remaining characters, besides Verge? (Who I trust but besides the point)

 

[Mega Bidoof]

"A Nintendo crossover game that has its Special Edition boxart spoil the remaining additions? That'd never ha-"

View attachment 164362
"Oh."

THEY COULD STILL HAVE ROY AND IKE AND HECTOR! MAYBE THEYRE JUST NOT ON THE BOXART, OR ON THE BACK.

 

[Idon]

Ken is boring and I hate Incineroar. If these are really the last two reveals then wow what a hype killer. Why wouldn't they save at least Ridley or K. Rool for last?

Because they want a strong hook for the E3 trailer.

 

[Untouch]

It's kinda sad seeing everyone jump on each other like there's no tomorrow. Seems like we need info soon.

1 day after the direct and we're in an info drought again.

 

[Aurane]

Ashley

I'm sorry. I've been holding onto this pic for too long and its high time to set it free.

 

[P.Kat]

Well left for work to come back, and people are losing their minds over boxes? Well all I can say is, I hope its not true cause that'll be disappointing, but if it is true then there's always DLC to look forward to.

There's no rule stating a character that's an AT can't become dlc is there?

I'm asking for a friend...
who lives in a haunted mansion...

If you find out let me know, I'm asking for a lady who lives on the plains, and a for someone with a staff

 

[lightdrago]

Now that I know that a ballot can and will be used for future games there's nothing stopping me from voting for Charmy Bee Ashley.
I made that mistake three years ago, never again.

Same here. If I knew the ballot would be used for this game, I would have voted for Phoenix Wright multiple times. I don’t even know why I didn’t

 

[Deleted member]

So I've been reading up in the box theory that's been going around. I'm going to say that I agree that Ken and Incineroar are going to be the final two characters.

Let's be fair though, the roster is infinitely better than anyone here could have thought. If you told me that we were getting Ridley, K. Rool, and literally everyone back from the past game, I'd say "you gotta be kidding me". Outside of Bomberman being an Assist Trophy, what's there for me to be disappointed with a once-in-a-lifetime crossover?

This is the roster we've dreamed of since the curtain closed on Brawl. For everyone to return, for Mega Man to finally get in, and for Ridley and K. Rool to finally get in. Now it's hear and I cannot wait for the day I finally get Ultimate in my hand.

WHO'S WITH ME?

 

[Noipoi]

Remember when this thread was excitedly yammering on about the new info we just got?
That lasted...

 

[Pyra]

DID YOU JUST ASSUME I COULD BE WRONG?!?

I'LL MAKE SURE YOUR MOST WANTED IS LOW TIER, BUB

Woah, that means he'll get in.
Hit me with your best shot

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Is this what we've come to? Having to compare our roster to probably the worst one in modern AAA fighting games?

Smash roster is good as is, the final reveals possibly being disappointing won't change that much.

MVCI couldn't even represent Capcom decently.

You know there will be kids who will look at the final Smash roster if this leak holds true and react similarly to how people saw the final roster for that abomination of the game.

Especially those who will think that Isabelle stole the spot for thier favorite character and hold her and her supporters in contempt.

 

[Iridium]

1 day after the direct and we're in an info drought again.

It's just like getting no sleep for 20 hours, drinking caffeinated coffee, having energy for a few hours, then falling asleep hard. Almost.

 

[Will]

You know there will be kids who will look at the final Smash roster if this leak holds true and react similarly to how people saw the final roster for that abomination of the game.

Especially those who will think that Isabelle stole the spot for thier favorite character and hold her and her supporters in contempt.

People are still salty about it, not because she's in, but because she's a non-Echo.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Let me reiterate something. I'm not ignoring anything that anyone who disagrees with me is saying. I'm thinking about it. I'm considering the possibilities. However, the difference is that I'm basing my inferences on information that is out there.

Saying, "They could just put the original 8 on the back" is not.

More than anything, I don't think you're stupid or in total denial if you don't agree with me. I don't want anyone to feel that way. Nobody should.

I am inferring my theory with the box art on symmetry of design, and the information posted on Twitter, as well as the other coincidental pieces of information. I will compile that into the following list.

1) Incineroar and Ken have been leaked by Vergeben. While not confirmed, it conveniently falls into line based on what has been shared from Twitter, implying that a remaining fighter would have to be between Palutena and Cloud, which pairs perfectly with a Ken Echo Fighter with Ryu. Likewise, with Isabelle placed next to K.Rool, Incineroar would perfectly fit next to Isabelle as the next character in line.

2) Sakurai specifically covered the total 103 stages in Smash Ultimate. Should Ken and Incineroar be the final remaining fighters, they don't necessarily require a stage. That would maintain a stage total of 103, while Sakurai could avoid going back on that number. This has been a common thought in the community: That the stage total would be final if there were no characters from new series.

3) When the game was first revealed, Sakurai specifically stated that he hopes, "You aren't expecting as many newcomers as previous games in the series". In terms of newcomers, this is, I believe, less than if not on par with Melee. That is, if you don't include returning veterans like Snake and the others.

4) While the Box art could be edited and changed to move characters around, the fact is that a 72 character roster would fit perfectly the way it stands now. With there being 2 unknowns, and Isabelle missing, the 3 characters, Isabelle, Incineroar, and Ken, conveniently fit into a perfect 36 and 36 side cover combination.

If I'm wrong about all this, then great. I WANT THERE TO BE MORE CHARACTERS. I don't ****ing care about being right about speculation for a ****ing game with strangers. I am breaking this down because every time a seemingly disappointing discussion with a good amount of information backing it comes up, it is instantly met with massive amounts of denial.

The things i've listed matchup and seem convincing. No offense to anyone making the case, but I don't see a compelling reason as to why the Original 8 would be placed on the back of the box, or that an additional group of 3 or more newcomers would be placed on the back. The entire theme of the game is that "Everyone is here!". Why would a select group randomly be on a third side when everyone can fit on two?

If someone can create a compelling case, I will listen to it. Simply saying, "Well, the boxart isn't final and they COULD do X" isn't compelling. It's not convincing for me at this point in time.

Now, I'll again apologize if people are thinking I'm testy. But I'll admit, I don't appreciate that a lot of people are shooting down what i'm putting out there with statements saying, "THEY WOULDN'T LEAK THAT, YOU'RE CRAZY" or giving some sort of snark. Or, "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. YOU DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE"

That last one irks me. I'm actively TRYING to compile a case, and being met with arguments that argue the other side (which, again, I'm willing to listen to) that don't have similar evidence. Nobody is saying something like, "Look at it this way. If they put the OG 8 on the back, it will still work" or, "there's clear evidence that there are more newcomers after Ken and Incineroar". That isn't being used to support the other argument, which is why I haven't accepted any of it yet. It's not convincing enough besides saying those types of things to keep hopes alive.

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to believe this. All I want people to do is to consider it in case it turns out to be true, instead of disregarding it completely.

Smash 4 speculation started using arguments to prove certain things by saying, "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN! THEY CAN MAKE MY PICK THAT ENDED UP AN ASSIST TROPHY INTO A PLAYABLE CHARACTER!" "RIDLEY CAN BE A BOSS AND A PLAYABLE CHARACTER!"

Look what happened there?

For now, I'll shut up. I want to keep talking characters, so at this point because I'm rather convinced for a number of reasons (some I haven't mentioned but I've gotten tired at this point) I'll refer to my choices for DLC.

I appreciate everyone for reading what I've had to say, and I appreciate those who are responding and asking questions.

 

[Misery Brick]

No X-Men, no Deadpool, no Doom, no Fantastic Four, no to anyone who isn’t in the MCU...they ****ed up hard

That's what happens when you have Ike Perlmutter who put a company wide ban on the X-Men and FF for games and comics.
Also, what happened when you don't have anyone working on the game trying to push or argue for those characters.
(And MvC:I is such a fun vs. game too, damn it.)

But regardless, I'm sure many people will be crying about the outcome of the game regardless. It happened with Smash 4, now it will with Ultimate.
Still don't understand how people get mad over a series they've been playing for years, but what can you do?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I mean, it's possible - but very unlikely - that the portraits on the other side are just slightly shorter so they can have one more line of characters. I wouldn't count on it though.

Anyway, I'm leaning more and more towards this theory being true. No, this is not comparable to the chairs at all. The chairs were some background prop meant to liven up the room a little. This box art is meant to give us a clue of what the final game box art looks like, and it seems like they've accounted for an echo fighter being on the side we can't see. We're going to get something pretty close - but not exactly - like what we're seeing in that picture, so speculation based on it actually does have some merit.

 

[Chandeelure]

Okay, so what about the other side of the box?

Here it is:

 

[PSIguy89]

Looking forward a bit here, but honestly at this point I’d actually want more DLC stages than Characterz...(new stages that is) hell even couple DLC Echo fighters would be fine by me

 

[Zippo]

Also, to be completely fair, let's be real here, from the game's very reveal at E3, Sakurai said:

"I hope you're not expecting too many new challengers."

No one at Nintendo or Namco Bandai lied or mislead us. This is still going to be the best Smash game to me, a roster of 76 characters and 103 stages is still freaking incredible to me. With a roster that big, something has got to give, guys. I have no doubt DLC on the way, so there's still plenty to be hyped about.

 

[Ultinarok]

The mural was promotional material for E3. The box is a product being sold to customers on launch day. There's a difference here.

I edited my post because I had more to say about it. The box is already confirmed to not be finalized because Isabelle isn't even on the box. The missing spots mean nothing. If he had made the box have a number of open spots exactly equal to the missing newcomers, it'd be just a little too obvious eh?

We all threw this same fit during the Dojo days when only a few Mystery spaces were shown for new fighters at a time, which " confirmed" we weren't getting any more. And then we immediately got more.

Its not impossible that there's two more. But the box is not proof of this. The design is clearly a model that doesn't reflect the finished product. If it did, we'd see every remaining fighter already, two or otherwise.

 

[Pakky]

Why would we believe Ken would be one of the two remaining characters, besides Verge? (Who I trust but besides the point)

Eh, that's a common sense factor, I guess. He is P2.

Though here's a thought that I've pondered over for the day.

Has any video game villain like a singular character been in more media consistently over the years to the present day than Eggman?

Seriously, I mean I thought of Team Rocket but that's a group, not an individual.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Why would we believe Ken would be one of the two remaining characters, besides Verge? (Who I trust but besides the point)

Vaanrose counted up how the characters are organized. It’s in sets of 9. There’s a set of 9, then the next set of 9 on the other, then the next set of 9 on the other, and back and forth.

For example, the other side presumably had the OG 8 and Dark Samus, then it goes from Luigi to Sheik, then the next set of 9 on the other side.

On the side we see, there is Mii Fighters, then Corrin, meaning that Palutena-Cloud is a set of 9 on the other side. Except that’s not a full set of 9, it’s 8, and there must be an echo for any the characters numbered between Palutena and Cloud, one of which is Ryu.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The mural was promotional material for E3. The box is a product being sold to customers on launch day. There's a difference here.

This box is also a mock up. It's not meant to have anything that we don't already know. It's not even meant to hint at the roster count either.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think we all need to at least entertain the fact that we're only getting two more characters.

Better to do so now than hold out hope to end up disappointed.

 

[Rockaphin]

So anyway, if Ken is getting in, do you guys think he'll get an actual reveal trailer or not?

I think Ken will be tied in with another newcomer, so yes. However, if this is not the case, possibly not.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Unless one of these characters were being made but cut due to time issues, then Verge clearly has some faulty info from one of his sources, and this can potentialy discredit the other two as well.

We have no idea of knowing if it's even Incineroar in the first place, to everyone assuming that. We have no idea who this SE rep is or if theu were the one planned for DLC after or with a pre-order elease like Mewtwo or something.

The only thing name we got was Ken, and I doubt a newcomer reveal will be made on an Echo, so either he's unique or he's just not gonna be made a big deal of in a more casual reveal like the other echoes sans Richter. And if he is paried with someone like Incineroar, then that's all of our newcomers in one Direct.

Though, to be honest, I can see them doing this and then using the next Direct as a means of explaining Spirits mode and other cool features they added or upgraded.

 

[Pyra]

Vaanrose counted up how the characters are organized. It’s in sets of 9. There’s a set of 9, then the next set of 9 on the other, then the next set of 9 on the other, and back and forth.

For example, the other side presumably had the OG 8 and Dark Samus, then it goes from Luigi to Sheik, then the next set of 9 on the other side.

On the side we see, there is Mii Fighters, then Corrin, meaning that Palutena-Cloud is a set of 9 on the other side. Except that’s not a full set of 9, it’s 8, and there must be an echo for any the characters numbered between Palutena and Cloud, one of which is Ryu.

it's going to be ****ing hilarious if it's Medusa or something

 

[TheCJBrine]

To think, aside from most echoes and K. Rool, people knew the entire roster this whole time thanks to leaks.

 

[Iridium]

I mean, it's possible - but very unlikely - that there portraits on the other side are just slightly shorter so they can have one more line of characters. I wouldn't count on it though.

Anyway, I'm leaning more and more towards this theory being true. No, this is not comparable to the chairs at all. The chairs were some background prop meant to liven up the room a little. This box art is meant to give us a clue of what the final game box art looks like, and it seems like they've accounted for an echo fighter being on the side we can't see. We're going to get something pretty close - but not exactly - like what we're seeing in that picture, so speculation based on it actually does have some merit.

I mean, I definitely can see space for more fighters too. I'm not sure it's going to be just 2 more fighters for the base game, but it could happen.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm sorry. I've been holding onto this pic for too long and its high time to set it free.

Why would you do this to me?
Have I wronged you?
Is this revenge for something i've done?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

That's what happens when you have Ike Perlmutter who put a company wide ban on the X-Men and FF for games and comics.
Also, what happened when you don't have anyone working on the game trying to push or argue for those characters.
(And MvC:I is such a fun vs. game too, damn it.)

But regardless, I'm sure many people will be crying about the outcome of the game regardless. It happened with Smash 4, now it will with Ultimate.
Still don't understand how people get mad over a series they've been playing for years, but what can you do?

MvC I can understand, but getting mad over Smash (a celebration of Nintendo + others) is foolish

I think Ken will be tied in with another newcomer, so yes. However, if this is not the case, possibly not.

Well he’s a 3rd party character, so he could get a full on newcomer trailer or at the least a similar trailer to Sonic’s Sash 4 reveal (the only vet to get one until dlc)

 

[Nazyrus]

proof
pro͞of/
noun

1. evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement

Look dude, ConnorEatsPants lays it out pretty clear, and it's difficult to argue with his logic. For you to completely deny evidence from the opposing side and assert your opinion as fact is ignorant.

Whatever happened to "they could add anyone and I'd be happy," huh?

Did we forget that Sakurai and the team also added Young Link, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Wolf, and Snake on top of our current newcomers? Or that they've made thousands of changes to the veterans to make them unique? What about the new gameplay system or modes? Or the already amazing set of newcomers???

I understand being disappointed that Incineroar and Ken is all we get, but lets think with our heads instead of our hearts here.

Ken and Incineroar are not gonna be the last reveals lol, if you truly believe they are gonna be the last hype material before release you all are delusional. Good night

 

[JaidynReiman]

Ken is boring and I hate Incineroar. If these are really the last two reveals then wow what a hype killer. Why wouldn't they save at least Ridley or K. Rool for last?

In all honesty, if the box theory is true (I'm starting to believe it is) I definitely DON'T think its Incineroar. I do think it'd be a ballot character instead.

Incineroar is just speculation, and if this is true, Vergeben is wrong anyway.

Why would we believe Ken would be one of the two remaining characters, besides Verge? (Who I trust but besides the point)

Because the box art is pointing towards an Echo Fighter for: Palutena, Pac-Man, Robin, Shulk, Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, Ryu, or Cloud. The most obvious of these is Ken.

This box is also a mock up. It's not meant to have anything that we don't already know. It's not even meant to hint at the roster count either.

I wish I could say that, but Vaanrose has a point here. The fact that there's a pattern, EXCEPT in the case of there being one missing on the "other" side, lends credence to the idea they designed this to be final. Maybe they planned to show off the final unique newcomer already and they got pushed back, so the boxart teasing the final reveals didn't matter.

 

[Ura]

**** it if the game has to end on an anti-hype note then the last character should be Dark Classic Pit.

 

[Nethermoosen]

The mural was promotional material for E3. The box is a product being sold to customers on launch day. There's a difference here.

Still, this isn’t a real box. It’s a digital representation of one. Like a template that can be modified before applied. We would have to see if it says this “isn’t the finalized product” or whatever. Seeing as how it obviously isn’t finalized, there is no way to tell.

It doesn’t make this box less important since it also doesn’t prove it’s wrong, but the fact remains it can easily be modified.