Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Omega Tyrant]

1) Incineroar and Ken have been leaked by Vergeben. While not confirmed, it conveniently falls into line based on what has been shared from Twitter, implying that a remaining fighter would have to be between Palutena and Cloud, which pairs perfectly with a Ken Echo Fighter with Ryu. Likewise, with Isabelle placed next to K.Rool, Incineroar would perfectly fit next to Isabelle as the next character in line..

One cannot use Vergeben as evidence for the box theory when he claimed a SE character is in on top of Ken and the new pokemon. Remember it was the name of the SE newcomer he got from some random source he was unsure of, not the existence of the SE newcomer itself, which came from his established Smash sources.

 

[Ura]

Yeah, this is gonna be the roughest 2 months of my life.

I didn't know hell was littered with boxes.

 

[Ivander]

The box theory is interesting and it's possible. But I'm going to be neutral on it.
One: Because anything is possible at this point. And we've certainly not seen all of the sides of the box. So who knows?
Two: At this point, I'm fine with just two more characters left to reveal, but nothing wrong in keeping a little hope for maybe a couple more.
Two: Mostly because Smash Speculation has a real habit of taking one thing relentlessly to heart and shutting others down until something comes out and practically puts the down spike smackdown on Smash Speculation.
We've seen this happen with the Sal Ramano leak and Robin/Lucina(even if the Gematsu leak was true to an extent), we've seen this with the ESRB leak with people trying to use stuff like "Shulk is photoshopped Little Mac" and whatnot, we've seen this with Too Many Fire Emblem characters and Corrin, we've seen this with Bayonetta and even the "Ridley is too big" thing even got the smackdown. It just seems to be a reoccurring moment for Smash Speculation of sticking to one thing, putting others down who doubt and than getting their belief shutdown big time. And karma hits hard when it happens.

Anyway, we'll see what happens when the game comes.

 

[Will]

I think we all need to at least entertain the fact that we're only getting two more characters.

entertain the fact that we're only getting two more characters

entertain the fact

the fact

The ride never ends, does it?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

**** it if the game has to end on an anti-hype note then the last character should be Dark Classic Pit.

Why do people keep saying the game is going to “end.”

The game isn’t ending. It’s not even out.

Everyone is also forgetting Spirits Mode, which I think the speculation period might actually end on honestly.

 

[Iridium]

**** it if the game has to end on an anti-hype note then the last character should be Dark Classic Pit.

Or Slightly Larger Shiny Silver Gold Mario as an EF of Mario.

 

[Ultinarok]

So now Vergeben is automatically correct about everything (despite being hit and miss in his predictions) AND the box is an unchangeable agent of defeat?

This thread has literally resigned that the box is the fatal blow to speculation, and that Incin and Ken are locks because a guy who's been rather inconsistent and had some successes said so?

I gotta say, I'm really disappointed. I'm tapping out of this thread for awhile until the mass hysteria whittles down. Happy speculating all, see you in awhile.

 

[Potato_]

Ken and Incineroar are not gonna be the last reveals lol, if you truly believe they are gonna be the last hype material before release you all are delusional. Good night

Alright at this point you're essentially ignoring everything they're saying. There is some evidence to suggest this is the case, and there's some stuff that could prove it doesn't have all the newcomers. To act like these two being the last newcomers is something so impossible after they've given some credible details suggesting so is pretty unfair to them. To go as far as to call them "delusional" is a little much.

 

[Maxoxpower]

the box will be out NOV 2.

We will get a direct before....maybe not.

maybe some characters reveal will not on in the box but sakurai will reveal them after NOV 2.

 

[JaidynReiman]

One cannot use Vergeben as evidence for the box theory when he claimed a SE character is in on top of Ken and the new pokemon. Remember it was the name of the SE newcomer he got from some random source he was unsure of, not the existence of the SE newcomer itself, which came from his established Smash sources.

Yes. Vergeben also typically, with most of the games he leaks information for, gets more wrong the more time goes on, and his last few reveals have been very sketchy. I can easily see the SE newcomer and Pokemon being his downfalls. Or maybe they're planned for DLC.


Regardless, if the box theory holds up, we're probably getting Ken, who was a plausible guess with or without Vergeben. The final reveal can be literally anyone because Vergeben doesn't matter anymore at that point.



I'm heavily speculating that if this box is the FINAL base roster, they planned to reveal everyone relatively early, and in the next Direct they'll talk about DLC fighters (Echo Fighters initially) and perhaps a really big hype reveal to keep the hype going even longer.


EDIT:

the box will be out NOV 2.

We will get a direct before....maybe not.

maybe some characters reveal will not be in the box but sakurai will reveal them after.

No, this box will be out December 7th. What you're thinking of is the Smash Ultimate Switch bundle. I think that comes with a download code of the game which won't work until the game officially releases.

 

[Starbound]

Ken and Incineroar are not gonna be the last reveals lol, if you truly believe they are gonna be the last hype material before release you all are delusional. Good night

Yeah there's no way a game with Mega Man, Pac-Man, Villager and Little Mac would end off it's pre-launch reveals with Shulk!

...Oh wait, that happened.

 

[Noipoi]

It's kind of funny how people in this thread turn into pricks as soon as someone makes a theory they don't agree with.

 

[Pyra]

It's kind of funny how people in this thread turn into pricks as soon as someone makes a theory they don't agree with.

This isn't new.

It's almost funny how much this reminds me of old people bickering about politics on Facebook.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I keep seeing people say that Geno would be the most hype addition. That's not true. A "more hype" addition has already been revealed.

"But Geno had to overcome impossible odds!" So did Ridley. And Ridley is better known on top of that. And he's a freaking cyborg space dragon.

Not that it matters anyway, as I really think that this game is like the others in that they showed off their biggest guns first (Ridley, Inkling) and saved their less exciting ones for last (Isabelle, our 10th Pokemon, potentially an echo fighter who didn't have ballot results like the other two did). I still would have expected Geno to be one of the later reveals if he somehow does make it in, I just don't think he could top Ridley or K.Rool.

 

[Zinith]

I feel like there needs to be a public statement from Nintendo about this. They did it for Luigi's supposed "death," so this seems plausible...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

One cannot use Vergeben as evidence for the box theory when he claimed a SE character is in on top of Ken and the new pokemon. Remember it was the name of the SE newcomer he got from some random source he was unsure of, not the existence of the SE newcomer itself, which came from his established Smash sources.

Thank you for providing a reasonable counterargument.

Despite this, I can't exactly elaborate on that (not just because it wouldn't make sense to anyone) but I have my own reasons for believing the Square Enix character is false. Despite Verg having a supposed connection with another user on GameFAQS mentioning the validity of a particular character, I still feel that something is up with that particular character.

Another part of me has a feeling that, if there is a SE character in the game, they could absolutely end up as our first DLC character. I don't have as much to say in regards to that though.

 

[Dixie Kong]

I always thought the final Smash direct would have an unique newcomer at the start, and an unique newcomer at the end.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Vergeben isn't sure about Incineroar.

It could be Incineroar, or it could be Rowlett, an Ultra Beast, Golisopod (it's yer boiiii), or Wurmple with an Alolan Hat.

 

[Ura]

Why do people keep saying the game is going to “end.”

The game isn’t ending. It’s not even out.

Everyone is also forgetting Spirits Mode, which I think the speculation period might actually end on honestly.

Was joking about the last newcomer for the base roster but I guess the wording was off lol.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I can't believe you guys are actually already accepting there only being two more characters because of box art.

box art
box art
box art

I'd rather accept that we're only getting two more (probably Ken and Incineroar) than expect to have Geno and Banjo on the base roster and have my hope's and dreams crushed if they end up excluded.

 

[Whia]

I'm finding it really difficult to argue against the box art theory.

Writing it off as subject to major changes seems disingenuous to me because:

1) Why leave 2 blank slots?
2) Why arrange the portraits in such a particular, meticulous manner?

What's the possible motivation for either of those decisions if it's just "we need to slap something together for promo material"? The overall arrangement seems way too deliberate to not be indicative of something.

 

[Potato_]

I feel like there needs to be a public statement from Nintendo about this. They did it for Luigi's supposed "death," so this seems plausible...

I really doubt they say anything on this. They're just going to leave us in suspense until whenever they drop more info.

 

[Misery Brick]

It's kind of funny how people in this thread turn into pricks as soon as someone makes a theory they don't agree with.

Look, I get where you're coming from, but don't do this stuff. It makes more people pissed at the end of the day with this mentality and attitude.

Like I've been saying:
Don't act hostile or spiteful for the sake of an argument. No one will agree with you or entertain the idea of it by doing this.
You immediately lose the grounds for debate.

It's just speculation for Smash guys, no need to get so volatile or heated.

 

[Pakky]

I mean... There really isn't anyone...

This is kinda freaking me out.

One cartoon in the 80s then Wreck-it- Ralph

One cartoon that ended a decade ago

... The zelda cartoon

Never

EDIT: You know the one.

Wreck-it-Ralph, Sonic Boom, and before that Sonic X. On top of the others.

I never noticed this until now, huh...

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

So now Vergeben is automatically correct about everything (despite being hit and miss in his predictions) AND the box is an unchangeable agent of defeat?

This thread has literally resigned that the box is the fatal blow to speculation, and that Incin and Ken are locks because a guy who's been rather inconsistent and had some successes said so?

I gotta say, I'm really disappointed. I'm tapping out of this thread for awhile until the mass hysteria whittles down. Happy speculating all, see you in awhile.

Gonna have to agree for the most part. It's not really any fun to speculate if a large chunk of the board is now going to be deadset on the exact remainder of the roster. Gonna have to tap out until the next character reveal. If the next reveal is just Sakurai saying "Ken and Incineroar are your final characters, hope you enjoy the game", then so be it, it's already a kickass roster and I had some good fun here while it lasted, but if it's not either of those 2 (or Sakurai says there's still more if it is them), I'll be back in the game.

 

[StarLight42]

DID YOU JUST ASSUME I COULD BE WRONG?!?

I'LL MAKE SURE YOUR MOST WANTED IS LOW TIER, BUB


Because one of them was at the biggest gameshow in the world and why would they care to do that? They never did it before, they'll likely never do it now.

Uhh what? I don't know about any game show. Is this Ken or Incineroar related?

 

[drag0nscythe]

So, In agreement with the Box Theory.

and

It looks so nice. And makes so much sense. This has to be the final roster.

Ken and someone.

72 makes a good number for the box. The CSS look nice. With the collapsed, the N64 original 12 are first row. Melee is second. Brawl is 3rd. Smash 4 is forth. DLC and newcombers in Ultimate is 5th (with some fudging)

Expanded. Newcomers to Ultimate all line the bottom row. All echos are with their counterparts. Space for DLC.

I think we have it people.

 

[Pyra]

I feel like there needs to be a public statement from Nintendo about this. They did it for Luigi's supposed "death," so this seems plausible...

Probably won't happen and if it does it'd be a vague PR answer because confirming it would reveal too much info and denying it would throw people into another frenzy lol

 

[Aurane]

Why would you do this to me?
Have I wronged you?
Is this revenge for something i've done?

Nothing personal, kid.

 

[Will]

Uhh what? I don't know about any game show. Is this Ken or Incineroar related?

?
E3?
Ring a bell?

 

[AugustusB]

Given some thought and time away from the discussion, I will entertain the thought of the box art.
Everyone is Here is still incredibly the hypest thing.
-Ridley is playable
-Simon is playable
-King K. Rool is ****ing playable

This is a game for the fans. If we are only getting two more characters, then that is pretty awesome.

I think it is time to put aside the box for awhile and just wait to see what happens next.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Guys Snake isn't coming back Konami is an ass. There's no way we'd get Simon either. Ridley is too big. K. Rool is irrelevant. The most we'd get is MAYBE Isabelle and Inceneroar. Idiots.

 

[Noipoi]

Nothing personnel, kid.

Fixed that for you.

 

[UberMadman]

I just realized something. If the box theory is right...

THE MUSIC THEORY WAS LIKELY RIGHT ALL ALONG.

Damn it... I’m on team box for now, so I’ll have to eat crow for thinking that the music theory was just conspiracy. Granted, we do already have a Street Fighter song, but I firmly believed that if the music theory was real, it would only apply to true newcomers and not echoes anyway.

 

[Pakky]

So, In agreement with the Box Theory.
View attachment 164375
and
View attachment 164376
It looks so nice. And makes so much sense. This has to be the final roster.

Ken and someone.

72 makes a good number for the box. The CSS look nice. With the collapsed, the N64 original 12 are first row. Melee is second. Brawl is 3rd. Smash 4 is forth. DLC and newcombers in Ultimate is 5th (with some fudging)

Expanded. Newcomers to Ultimate all line the bottom row. All echos are with their counterparts. Space for DLC.

I think we have it people.

So entertaining this I'm guessing Geno, Inceniroar and someone else? Rayman?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I mean... There really isn't anyone...

This is kinda freaking me out.

One cartoon in the 80s then Wreck-it- Ralph

One cartoon that ended a decade ago

... The zelda cartoon

Never

Wreck-it-Ralph, Sonic Boom, and before that Sonic X. On top of the others.

I never noticed this until now, huh...

No no no, you forgot King K. Rool's finest hour.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I just realized something. If the box theory is right...

THE MUSIC THEORY WAS LIKELY RIGHT ALL ALONG.

Damn it... I’m on team box for now, so I’ll have to eat crow for thinking that the music theory was just conspiracy. Granted, we do already have a Street Fighter song, but I firmly believed that if the music theory was real, it would only apply to true newcomers and not echoes anyway.

what is music theory?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I can't believe you guys are actually already accepting there only being two more characters because of box art.

box art
box art
box art

And music

 

[Nazyrus]

So now Vergeben is automatically correct about everything (despite being hit and miss in his predictions) AND the box is an unchangeable agent of defeat?

This thread has literally resigned that the box is the fatal blow to speculation, and that Incin and Ken are locks because a guy who's been rather inconsistent and had some successes said so?

I gotta say, I'm really disappointed. I'm tapping out of this thread for awhile until the mass hysteria whittles down. Happy speculating all, see you in awhile.

Same, i'm staying in support threads for now, this just became too silly here.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I'm finding it really difficult to argue against the box art theory.

Writing it off as subject to major changes seems disingenuous to me because:

1) Why leave 2 blank slots?
2) Why arrange the portraits in such a particular, meticulous manner?

What's the possible motivation for either of those decisions if it's just "we need to slap something together for promo material"? The overall arrangement seems way too deliberate to not be indicative of something.

1) They didn’t have anymore characters they are allowed to use and it wouldn’t have fit no matter how they did it, whether it was before or after Isabelle. So, why do it at all? Pre-orders for the money. Either way, in this case, still not debunked.

2) I don’t see how this order would make sense regardless. It’s just weird. The mind boggles because none of the characters line up in any meaningful way. But the real answer to that might be interesting. Still, the point stands it’s hard to debunk right now.

No clue. I’ve been trying to find something concrete. I just can’t. It totally could just be a template that can be changed at any time. Still no proof of it, though.