Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[UserKev]

How about we talk about adding more Fire Emblem characters?

Not that there are many good relevant picks left than Celica and a Switch Lord.

Corrin literally drowned Azura's chances.

Give me that kid villain lord.

 

[Diddy Kong]

How about we talk about adding more Fire Emblem characters?

Not that there are many good relevant picks left than Celica and a Switch Lord.

Corrin literally drowned Azura's chances.

How did the idea of Azura ever came to life anyway? She isn't as much of a main character, and having played Fates and completed all routes.. she doesn't hold all too much and never should have been considered before Corrin anyway. I could see either Azura or even Takumi alongside Corrin, but not instead of Corrin. That just wouldn't have ever made sense.

I still would like newcomers of Fire Emblem yes. And I would prefer not if they'd force down the FE16 protagonist on us before the game gets released. I much rather have Celica, or even Alm. Actually, I would prefer Alm over Celica cause after I played Echoes, I could litterally envision Alm into Smash far more easily. What difference does it make anyway... Robin also represents the Mage type units in Smash, so Celica isn't all TOO much more unique than him anyway. Especially since she's a downright Marth clone in Warriors.

Lyn is still a option that's somewhat of a pipe dream for me. And I don't care she uses a sword, she would use it differently than the rest of the cast. Ask @ManlySpirit about this, he made a literal LEGENDARY moveset for her that was even once used as the base of Lyn's potential moveset for Project M, before it got disbanded. Plus, Heroes proves Lyn is insanely popular, and on par with the more popular Smash Lords like Ike, even beating out a couple of playable mainstays as Marth.

Timeless popularity > adding the flavor of the month.

Intelligent Systems already confirmed they will remake more games like they did with Echoes. It'll just be a matter of time before FE7 (and therefore also FE6 cause most likely they'll bundle the games, much like how they would bundle FE4 + FE5) gets remade, and Lyn is therefore "relevant" again.

There's a huge chance the next FE Lord is gonna be a "Chrom" anyway.

Speaking of Chrom, if Lucina gets reworked... I want Chrom as a proper alternative costume / sharing the slot of Lucina. That would be much, much, MUCH better than.... this.... ⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Anyone who thinks any character is a shoo-in or shoo-out(?) is setting themselves up for disappointment. Especially if that character is one they like or dislike respectively.

EDIT: Guess I should elaborate.
Let's say you love Dixie Kong. If you think she is a shoo-in, when she doesn't get in, you're going to be pissed because you expected her to get in. So it isn't just general disappointment but the disappointment of being wrong too.

Let's say you hate K rool. If you think there is no way an "irrelevant" character gets in smash, if he does get in, you'll be pissed for pretty much the same reasons.

I gotta agree, it really doesn't seem like there are any more shoo-ins now that Inkling is already out of the way. Like, Brawl had Wario, Dedede, and to a lesser extent Diddy Kong (given his lack of relevance at the time, but he was obviously too significant a character to ignore), Smash 4 had Little Mac and Palutena, but the only equivalent we had to those characters was Inkling. We've reached a point where there are no huge classic characters left who don't have something significant going against them (Ridley, K. Rool), a lot of the relevant and marketable options seem to have had questionable timing in regards to when this game's roster was finalized (Rex and Pyra, Spring Man), and some of the other notable options have a lot of competition for their specific spot that means they'll never be overwhelming favorites for it (Decidueye, Toad, Dixie, Celica, Takamaru).

More than ever I feel like this is an extremely difficult roster to predict, I used to love making prediction rosters, but I've not even made one for this game, because it feels like anything could happen. The only likely characters I can think of who don't have any significant question marks hanging over their heads are Isabelle and Bandana Dee, but I certainly wouldn't classify them as shoo-ins if the definition of that means a 100% guarantee.

E3 is going to be extremely exciting for this reason, who knows what's going to happen, the hype is going to be extremely strong for pretty much any reveal as there's practically not any potential character left who doesn't have a little bit of doubt surrounding their inclusion.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

How did the idea of Azura ever came to life anyway? She isn't as much of a main character, and having played Fates and completed all routes.. she doesn't hold all too much and never should have been considered before Corrin anyway. I could see either Azura or even Takumi alongside Corrin, but not instead of Corrin. That just wouldn't have ever made sense.

I still would like newcomers of Fire Emblem yes. And I would prefer not if they'd force down the FE16 protagonist on us before the game gets released. I much rather have Celica, or even Alm. Actually, I would prefer Alm over Celica cause after I played Echoes, I could litterally envision Alm into Smash far more easily. What difference does it make anyway... Robin also represents the Mage type units in Smash, so Celica isn't all TOO much more unique than him anyway. Especially since she's a downright Marth clone in Warriors.

Lyn is still a option that's somewhat of a pipe dream for me. And I don't care she uses a sword, she would use it differently than the rest of the cast. Ask @ManlySpirit about this, he made a literal LEGENDARY moveset for her that was even once used as the base of Lyn's potential moveset for Project M, before it got disbanded. Plus, Heroes proves Lyn is insanely popular, and on par with the more popular Smash Lords like Ike, even beating out a couple of playable mainstays as Marth.

Timeless popularity > adding the flavor of the month.

Intelligent Systems already confirmed they will remake more games like they did with Echoes. It'll just be a matter of time before FE7 (and therefore also FE6 cause most likely they'll bundle the games, much like how they would bundle FE4 + FE5) gets remade, and Lyn is therefore "relevant" again.

There's a huge chance the next FE Lord is gonna be a "Chrom" anyway.

Speaking of Chrom, if Lucina gets reworked... I want Chrom as a proper alternative costume / sharing the slot of Lucina. That would be much, much, MUCH better than.... this.... ⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩

The Mii Fighter costumes are abominations that needs to be destroyed.

Most of Azura's following came from early promotion and she is like a tertiary character. While she may not be the Nohrian or Hoshidian siblings, but she is still very plot relevant. Just that she is hard as hell to use in Conquest.

 

[Pokechu]

i hope we don't get any new fire emblem characters, we already have enough and the front runners (celica and lyn) would just add on more swords. at this point for fire emblem I'd only be fine with anna and tiki.

 

[Sage of Ice]

how big of a deal was Tiki in the game she was in? i know heckall about Fire Emblem but a green-haired girl who works part time as a sick magic dragon has my attention

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

As much as I hate to say it, the fact that Corrin is there as the token Manakete kills Tiki's chances too.

 

[Koopaul]

I have a controversial opinion. I believe that if Sakurai hasn't yet put in a character in Smash who makes regular appearances (like Daisy and Waluigi in the Mario Kart and Sports games) then he never will.

I can see certain characters that disappear and then come back in a big way getting in Smash. Because such a come back might make them more interesting to put in the game (like Dixie Kong from Tropical Freeze). But a character who has been around for a long time and is consistantly doing all the same things they've always been doing, and still hasn't been in the game? What reason would he change his mind now?

Sorry but the only way I see Daisy or Waluigi getting in Smash is if they just got big roles in a new mainline Mario game or they get their own games. Those two need something that makes them seem special again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My idea was making the Pegasus Sisters / White Wings; Palla, Catria and Est all playable.. But share a spot.

They are also hugely relevant due to Echoes, and are extremely iconic, well known, and the characters who are playable the MOST of all the Fire Emblem characters in the franchise.

Awakening even had them all as seperate DLC characters. And Warriors also sort of showcases how they could work by using Caeda as a base.

Alm and Celica make more sense... but if they REALLY wanted to take an unique approach, I think the Whte Wings would be a great answer. They are also in many ways, timeless characters.

EDIT: Found my old thread here ; https://smashboards.com/threads/fir...-wings-soar-the-skies-for-challengers.450294/

 

[MrReyes96]

Lyn should be playable on popularity and legacy alone

I think Celica, Tiki, and Ana are good choices as well

 

[Deleted member]

So Super Smash Bros. Switch is getting, big focus at E3? Good I look forward to it and what they show.

 

[Pazzo.]

Anna would be my pick, but any sort of Fire Emblem character at this point would be met with riots.

 

[BinWeevil28]

I gotta agree, it really doesn't seem like there are any more shoo-ins now that Inkling is already out of the way. Like, Brawl had Wario, Dedede, and to a lesser extent Diddy Kong (given his lack of relevance at the time, but he was obviously too significant a character to ignore), Smash 4 had Little Mac and Palutena, but the only equivalent we had to those characters was Inkling. We've reached a point where there are no huge classic characters left who don't have something significant going against them (Ridley, K. Rool), a lot of the relevant and marketable options seem to have had questionable timing in regards to when this game's roster was finalized (Rex and Pyra, Spring Man), and some of the other notable options have a lot of competition for their specific spot that means they'll never be overwhelming favorites for it (Decidueye, Toad, Dixie, Celica, Takamaru).

More than ever I feel like this is an extremely difficult roster to predict, I used to love making prediction rosters, but I've not even made one for this game, because it feels like anything could happen. The only likely characters I can think of who don't have any significant question marks hanging over their heads are Isabelle and Bandana Dee, but I certainly wouldn't classify them as shoo-ins if the definition of that means a 100% guarantee.

E3 is going to be extremely exciting for this reason, who knows what's going to happen, the hype is going to be extremely strong for pretty much any reveal as there's practically not any potential character left who doesn't have a little bit of doubt surrounding their inclusion.

Diddy Kong kept himself relevant through Mario Kart and such.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think that the characters who would overall induce the least rage would be Anna or Lyn. Anna is the most recurring character in the series if I'm not mistaken and has a good personality, and Lyn is wildly popular and isn't just another advertisement character, which is one of the larger gripes I see with Fire Emblem inclusion.
I'd personally like to see someone from Fire Emblem Heroes, such as Sharena or Veronica, but they had no idea how popular that game was going to be when the Smash roster would've been decided. So that likely isn't going to happen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just keep the six Fire Emblem characters we have or maybe cut either Roy and/or Lucina.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Diddy Kong kept himself relevant through Mario Kart and such.

Obviously it helped a little bit, but in the end I don't think it mattered much, he would have been included either way given just how big a character he is. His absence from his main series only dragged him down from 100% to something like 95%.

 

[Edgelord_197]

I wonder if Fire Emblem will get any new character at all.

Anna would be ok, but it would be like adding Nurse Joy because she was in every game.
I would prefer an old FE character than a new one cause it's just too predictable to know the newest one will be in the game.

Does anyone else hate FE representation in 4? Two clones and all sword users

 

[A Distant Demon]

I hope none of the current FE characters get cut.
Marth is my main.
Ike and Robin are cool.
Roy is nostalgia incarnate for me.
Lucina is one of my favorite FE characters to me and TBH I just like her design.
Corrin I need to be in one more game so I can play them. Only barely played them but I LOVE their moveset. Not enough to buy them seperately but enought to possibly main them if they show up in another game.

I would be willing to take no newcomers, but I would also gladly accept no cuts AND a newcomer

 

[Hinata]

Speaking of cuts, let's put into perspective how many characters each new game cut from the previous roster.

Smash 4 cut 5 characters from Brawl's roster (Ice Climbers, Snake, Wolf, Squirtle, Ivysaur), and Brawl also cut 5 characters from Melee's roster (Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Pichu, Young Link, Roy).

So looks like we need to start talkin' about cuts in terms of 5 characters only.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

1. Mii Fighter 2. Cloud 3. Wii Fit Trainer 4. Roy 5. Uhhh Lucas?

 

[Troykv]

If there is a Smash game where we would don't get new FE Characters at the base roster, this one is the most likely.

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

1. Lucina 2. Dark Pit 3. Roy 4. Cloud (Square Enix problems maybe but idek tbh) 5. Dr. Mario I guess.

It's hard to cut characters now since they are all important and cool (except to me Lucina and Dark Pit which is my main), so seeing any of them go we have currently would kind of be tough to decide

 

[RouffWestie]

I have a controversial opinion. I believe that if Sakurai hasn't yet put in a character in Smash who makes regular appearances (like Daisy and Waluigi in the Mario Kart and Sports games) then he never will.

I can see certain characters that disappear and then come back in a big way getting in Smash. Because such a come back might make them more interesting to put in the game (like Dixie Kong from Tropical Freeze). But a character who has been around for a long time and is consistantly doing all the same things they've always been doing, and still hasn't been in the game? What reason would he change his mind now?

Sorry but the only way I see Daisy or Waluigi getting in Smash is if they just got big roles in a new mainline Mario game or they get their own games. Those two need something that makes them seem special again.

This really shows in Smash 4's Nintendo newcomers. Characters making regular appearances was definitely not important to their inclusion. Rosalina, Lucina, Robin, Greninja, Palutena, Dark Pit, Shulk, Corrin, Wii Fit Trainer... compared to Brawl - which gave us Meta Knight, King Dedede, Diddy Kong, Wario, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, and Toon Link - none of the newcomers had a particularly long history of games they'd been in.

It's a shame because those tend to be the ones I genuinely recognize. I grew up with those older generation consoles. I have a history with games like Mario Tennis and the original DKC trilogy. I'd be happy to finally have Daisy, Waluigi, Dixie, or K. Rool playable over whatever new character is being pushed to market an upcoming Switch title.

 

[Roberk]

How about we talk about adding more Fire Emblem characters?

Not that there are many good relevant picks left than Celica and a Switch Lord.

Corrin literally drowned Azura's chances.

I could see someone like Azura for her neutrality and maayyyybe Takumi due to his popularity for another Fates rep. Fates came out mid-2015 for Japan and early 2016 for international and that release date fits very well with the Smash 5 development cycle. They knew Fates' success and while SoV is technically the latest, it like FE16 might be too late and Fates (commercial) success is already proven. While characters might be unlikely from the near-universal hate of Fates (at least from hardcore FE communities opposed to the casuals) and Corrin, Fates content at least is still very expected for stages, trophies, miscellaneous stuff. I personally don't want it, but it's very plausible and should be considered within speculation.

I feel like some people are sleeping on the Switch Lord. Imagine: After all of the known Smash content is shown at E3 FE16 has its own reveal later into the convention (it's basically confirmed as the financial report stated that FE16 is still coming in 2018, they have to show something at E3). At the end of the FE16 presentation they go "and one last thing," and show the Smash reveal trailer for the Switch Lord that we just heard 20-40 minutes of info about. It sounds perfect for marketing, revealing a somewhat expected newcomer at an unexpected time so soon after the Smash presentation and any talk about the character will cross-promote FE16.

IMO, Lyn is an extremely probable newcomer. Just go and look at the Lyn thread. Assist trophy promotion, winning CYL 2017 putting all of the FE Smash characters to shame, relevancy in Heroes and Warriors, katanas and bows for some variety, Lyn has a ton going for her. I think everyone can get behind her lasting popularity versus the flavor-of-the-month Celica or Switch Lord.

Celica is likely, but I'm still not too sure how I'd feel about her inclusion. Over the past year, her and SoV (and Heroes and Warriors of course) have felt like IS padding some time in between Fates and FE16. Her game was a success but didn't do as well as Awakening or Fates. Celica still feels like a flavor-of-the-month and the Switch Lord feels like a much better promotional character. Why promote a 3ds game from a year and a half ago over promoting a game releasing in the same season or even same month as Smash? Also, while SoV does half self-damaging magic over tomes which could be unique, we all saw how Pichu turned out with self-damaging moves and Robin has the Spell-Sword moveset down.

Anna: no way lol. If she'd be in Smash I'd rather her be some sort of secret or easter egg like how she is in the FE series. Maybe hidden in the trophy or DLC shop. I'd rather see good lords, unique weapons/styles, movement types, and more games repped than Anna in. She's not that popular in CYL even with split votes and she fits more as an NPC.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Sable is male, just that he follows the trend of older women voicing younger boys.

Like Bart Simpson and Tails.

that wasn't what I was referring to. I was referring if Sable is considered a retro

 

[Deathcarter]

I'd rather they simply retool Lucina to be a completely unique character in lieu of adding another FE newcomer for the base roster. Assuming they don't just cut her and leave it at that.

 

[MrReyes96]

I don’t know why everyone complains about too many fire emblem characters
Let’s just even it out by adding more for every series

 

[Hinata]

I don’t know why everyone complains about too many fire emblem characters
Let’s just even it out by adding more for every series

I'd like to see people try to add characters for every series represented so far until each and every one of them has as many as Fire Emblem did in Smash 4.

 

[Deathcarter]

Let's go back to Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. talk. That was a pleasant ten minutes.

Whatever new Fire Emblem stage we get in Smash needs to have this song:

Best song in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

I missed a plant life character discussion and no one mentioned the goddess of nature??

I know, right? Viridi totally deserves to be a newcomer.
I feel bad for Viridi. I need more Viridi.

Opossum
Do you have a Captain Toad move set? You are the best at making move sets in this thread.

 

[MrReyes96]

Speaking of Lucina I was a fan of the idea of making her a spear user

Would prefer that over cutting her

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Speaking of Lucina I was a fan of the idea of making her a spear user

Would prefer that over cutting her

tbh making her a spear user would be a waste of time and we know sakurai doesn't like to change up characters too much. Just luigify her a little and we're good

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Speaking of Lucina I was a fan of the idea of making her a spear user

Would prefer that over cutting her

Eh. I like Lucina, but I’d kinda rather they cut her than make her use a weapon she only really uses in a mobile game.

If they wanna have a spear user, put in a spear user (or Bandana Dee). Same goes for axe users. Really hoping the main protagonist of FE16 is an axe user for that reason.

 

[Roberk]

Speaking of Lucina I was a fan of the idea of making her a spear user

Would prefer that over cutting her

It almost completely changes her gameplay with a Falchion-like sword and character as a Marth impersonator. If they're going to put the time and effort into a spear user, why not Ephraim?

Spoiler: Ephraim

Spoiler: CYL 2017

Spoiler: CYL 2018

He's from Sacred Stones, an unrepped FE game. He wields a lance, this would certainly serve as the uniqueness factor. He's quite popular and even placed 2nd in the Men's CYL poll this year. Hector's a way better option as an FE rep but we're talking about spear users. Why take two major parts of Lucina's identity away when Ephraim truly deserves to be the spear user? If Lucina needs to be in the game: Marth alt, easy to develop clone, luigified if people want her to be unique (but that's just taking away dev time from other stuff just saying.)

I love Brave Lucina, but that lance was made up for Heroes and I don't think two unique Awakening reps (since Robin's pretty much staying) is a good idea.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Plant life character? Has everyone literally forgotten about Olimar? He throws walking alien plant life around so often like they're worth nothing of value.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Falchion is Lucina's personal weapon, for story purposes, there's literally NO reason Lucina would use another weapon other than it in Smash Bros.

Besides, Corrin already sort of represents the Lance weapons with his / her Dragon Fang inspired attacks.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Like I love Daisy you guys, but the ''BUT THE PLANTS" stuff about her is amusing. She's only getting in to represent sports spin-offs and there she's the darkhorse to Waluigi.

Sakurai's not picking Daisy to represent someone controlling plant life. It's just not gonna happen. It's not even a major facet of her character she is known for universally.

 

[Opossum]

Eh. I like Lucina, but I’d kinda rather they cut her than make her use a weapon she only really uses in a mobile game.

If they wanna have a spear user, put in a spear user (or Bandana Dee). Same goes for axe users. Really hoping the main protagonist of FE16 is an axe user for that reason.

Of note, while Geirskögul specifically was made for Heroes, Lucina can canonically use lances in Awakening when she promotes to Great Lord.

I could see Geirskögul being incorporated in a few of her moves if they Luigify her, but only to supplement Falchion, not replace it.

 

[Freduardo]

Okay, here’s a game.

Sakurai is done with people complaining about over representation. He’s doing five new fire emblem, five new Pokémon, five new mario, five new Zelda, five New Kirby, three new f-zero, three new Kid Icarus. Got another franchise you want to over represent, add either 3 or 5 characters from them.

Aaaand name em

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Who would be a better addition? Excitebike or Mach Rider? The idea of a character who rides a bike is a unique fighter, but there are some considerable pros and cons.

Excitebike is clearly more iconic and if there's a new IP that should be introduced in Super Smash Bros, that's definitely one of them. Mach Rider on the other hand is incredibly obscure, but he has a bigger arsenal of abilities.

Excitebike would be unique in that he would have a meter that when full, causes his bike to overheat, possibly making it inflict stronger damage.

Mach Rider's bike has guns and he has a pistol as well. He can also disassemble into particles. His bike also invites innovating new abilities he didn't have in the game.

EDIT: It's also worth noting that Mach Rider was originally a toy, which adds to him being an interesting inclusion.