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Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Th reason it's not Olimar is because his recovery is not "usually fine" and you dont need to be a very smart player to gimp it. It's way too easy to gimp.
BibulousDan
Smash Apprentice
Totally called it there with Falco. as for next week, i'm pretty sure that it has got to be Ness or Lucas, mostly Lucas. Why? because Luc has a beastly air game but he can be gimped easily.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Ness has better aerial game than Lucas
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Except that Lucas does not spam his B move on the ground.
Lucas has a strong ground game. His aerial game is poorer.
I don't get why people ignore the other hints provided.
The main reason it can't be Lucas/Ness is because their they both haverecovery is never fine. Everyone knows that their recovery sucks hard.
Neither of them spam a B move on the ground since both of their ground games are good. They aren't stuck spamming a B move.
Their aerial game is good and can kill at lower percentages and they are underrated. That's only 1/2 of the hint they fulfill.
Lucas has a strong ground game. His aerial game is poorer.
I don't get why people ignore the other hints provided.
The main reason it can't be Lucas/Ness is because their they both haverecovery is never fine. Everyone knows that their recovery sucks hard.
Neither of them spam a B move on the ground since both of their ground games are good. They aren't stuck spamming a B move.
Their aerial game is good and can kill at lower percentages and they are underrated. That's only 1/2 of the hint they fulfill.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
That is one of the most wrong posts I've seen in this thread so far.
Lucas SPAMS his PKF. Have you ben playing any Lucases?
Ness'recovery IS fine unless gimped.
He has a huge double jump and PKT2 goes far. Eating the thunder for Ness is hardly a problem anymore, and Ness' sweetspot range is one of the biggest in the game. Also, he can use his PSI Magnet to slow his fall and recover.
Lucas' recovery is amazing. Hav you seen a pro recover? How is he easily gimped? Show me a vid or something. Lucas has zap jumping and magnet pulling giving him such great recovery. Did you know he can cross under FD and make it to the other side? His rope snak is also much longer than it looks, and like Ness, his double jump is huge. His PSI Magnet also slows his fall and can hep his recovery if repeated (Ness' can only be used once to help recovery). Not to mention his PKT2 is one of the longest ranged recovery moves in the game.
Lucas' aerial moves dont kill at low percents either.
So now Wario is going from being proclaimed Low/Middle tier to "overpowered character". How times have changed for him. But just because he's a great Snake counter doesn't mean he's overpowered.
He does pretty much fit the criteria though so it very well could be him.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Yes and I know for a fact that a GOOD, key word being good, lucas does not spam their PK fire.
If anything you are more likely to have a Ness spamming their PK fire because the Ness has alot more setups from his PK fire than Lucas does.
Lucas has a good ground game he doesn't rely on his PK fire all the time. NOr is it his only option on the ground.
Can you honestly say thats all he does while on the ground?
I doubt it.
No it isn't. Don't fool yourself.
Gimping ness is EASY. Jump into PK thunder, hit ness.
The character that is being entailed is one who looks like he has a good recovery, but can be gimped if you are smart.
This means taking more work to gimp the character.
Who honestly is going to let a Ness PK thunder them self to the ledge?
Maybe Ike and Link who have bad recoveries but everyone else sure won't.
If you hit him at any time while he is doing a PK thunder Lucas is pretty much screwed just like Ness. The only difference is that you can't eat the PK thunder and gimp him making it a little bit more difficult.
Once you hit him unless he can regain his double jump he isn't recovering any time soon. Not unless he is recovering from the top which is more likely but even then Lucas doesn't like having a character below him since his Dair isn't really good for defense after a smash.
Magnet is only feasible when he is above the stage and by recovery I think they are entailing from all parts of the stage. Bottom and top.
You need a video to see how Lucas gets gimped?
You're not serious.
Pray tell who is going to allow him to pull off a zap jump or stand there while he magnets? If he does it from afar no problem but not from below the ledge and certainly not up close where his opponent is going to hit him while he is vulnerable.
Zap jump possibly since it isn't as situational IMO. However doesn't it take some time to set up?
This point is really irrelevant. Granted I understand you're trying to emphasize your point on recovery but going from under FD and back really requires a trick amount of work to perform.
To my knowledge this game hinges on the animation of the character and the ones to my knowledge that break this rule would be Snake and a few others.
However if you say it is so then it is so.
Tether recovering in this game is poor and would require an opponent who doesn't know what they are doing.
With the magnet and zap jumping those options are better no?
That double jump ends up being used because it prevents him from getting killed where DI wouldn't be enough. With lucas being a light weight this will occur at earlier percents.
PT2 is good for recovering but the amount of time it takes for the lightning to hit Lucas makes it impractical.
The majority of characters would already be right there attacking you before the lightning hits.
The only time they wouldn't is if they are using a character with a bad recovery (Ike and Link for example) and even then that would mean you are below stage. Which is something you'd never want to place yourself.
You mentioned PSI magnet already.
Not saying that lucas recovery is poor but that his recovery is one that is easily gimped and doesn't take much ingenuity to prevent.
The hint is going at a character who looks like he has a great recovery all the time.
A recovery that does not take a moment to set up. It looks like its awesome but once you hit them while they are recovering they die.
Something along the lines of Pit's recovery which looks awesome and doesn't give the appearance of being gimpable.
Bair spike. Thats the only one I can think of.
Ants
Smash Cadet
no, wario is not underestimated and he is not easily gimped
ness is an understandable guess, the only part that I'm not sure about that fits the criteria is spamming a B move on the ground against spammers.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I think it has to be a character without projectiles.
hmm I was thinking Sonic since when someone spams a projectile Sonic goes through it easily.
hmm I was thinking Sonic since when someone spams a projectile Sonic goes through it easily.
Ants
Smash Cadet
you cant be serious... weren't u the one who pointed out that people weren't looking at the other hints?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
XD yes I did.
The main reason is that you can gimp Sonic if you do it properly.
It mostly relies on the user extending themself to far when they go after you and edgehogging afterwards since the spring won't bring him back enough.
Or if possible while they are under the stage you can edge hog them.
Mainly since Sonic users tend to try and chase the foe off and sometimes have to use their double jump.
They can homing attack but an airdodge render you "invisible" and the homing attack won't go anywhere but down.
I think its also possible concerning the spamming of a b move since his spindash is very often used against projectile users both for SJC ad for going through the projectiles being fired.
He also can kill at early percentages with his aerials.
Read my earlier posts I mentioned Sonic earlier but I had gone against it because I didn't see the part where it mentioned projectile spamming.
He looks like he recovers great all the time but can be gimped if yo do thinks right. Still, the question is very odd since I cannot think of many other characters who recoveries look great but can be gimped.
The only problem with that idea is that the gimping requires certain circumstances and I think the hint is aiming at something more general.
The main reason is that you can gimp Sonic if you do it properly.
It mostly relies on the user extending themself to far when they go after you and edgehogging afterwards since the spring won't bring him back enough.
Or if possible while they are under the stage you can edge hog them.
Mainly since Sonic users tend to try and chase the foe off and sometimes have to use their double jump.
They can homing attack but an airdodge render you "invisible" and the homing attack won't go anywhere but down.
I think its also possible concerning the spamming of a b move since his spindash is very often used against projectile users both for SJC ad for going through the projectiles being fired.
He also can kill at early percentages with his aerials.
Read my earlier posts I mentioned Sonic earlier but I had gone against it because I didn't see the part where it mentioned projectile spamming.
He looks like he recovers great all the time but can be gimped if yo do thinks right. Still, the question is very odd since I cannot think of many other characters who recoveries look great but can be gimped.
The only problem with that idea is that the gimping requires certain circumstances and I think the hint is aiming at something more general.
Theftz22
Smash Lord
First i was thinking wario, then fox. I mean, his B-Side can be a fine recovery, but firebird can sometimes be gimped. his aerials are really great, and his B-move against projectile spammers would be his shine . I think that he's underestimated. It's just a guess though, so don't get too mad at me.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
*sigh*
Ugh... this post is even more wrong than the last. Seriously, do you know anything about these boys or do you just hate them or practice on Level 9s? I know all of this because I MAIN both of them.
Play a good Ness or Lucas. Yes, I know it's an overused argument that is usually weak, but whoever you are playing or wheerever you are getting this information is just stupid.
Of course you can do this on a stupid Ness player, but no good Ness player will allow you to eat his thunder. They will stall their descent with PSI magnet and protect themselves with Ness' godly fair. A lot of people have allowed me to make it back to the ledge, and no, they're not noobs.
It actually does take work to gimp Ness' recovery. First off, PKTRE is much easier now since the tail is longer. People who try to eat the thunder can get caught in this and die very easily due to PKT2's insane knockback.
It has long ago been established that eaten thunder is no longer much of a problem in Brawl. In Melee it was. You're probably living in the past here. The new turning radius and speed combined with PKTs huge tail make eating thunder very difficult. If you wanna eat his thunder, you pretty much have to be right over him when he uses it, but then you get uaired.
Hit Ness? Are you joking? How is this a gimp? He can easily make it back on stage even if hit out of PKT. He gets PKT back FYI.
And his underside defense is in his bair. lrn2lucas
Zap jump comes out just as fast as a double jump. Saying the opponent can easily stop Lucas from using a zap jump and magnet pull is saying that they can stop a regular double jump. Its even harder really since he rises so fast and goes so high up afterwards.
BTW, apparently you dont know what magnet pulling is either. After B-sticking and zap jumping at the same time, Lucas SHOOTS across the screen. Quite astounding really.
Below the ledge is the PERFECT place to zap jump, and near the ledge is no threat to Lucas either. You act like zap jumping leaves him so vulnerable. He can do ANY aerial he wants to and rises so high that using it at the very bottom of the blastzone is very safe.
Zap jumping is about as quick and situational as Luigi's double jump -_-
HE IS IN NO WAY VULNERABLE DURING A ZAP JUMP!!!
And again, not true. I always use PSIM to prevent getting killed first. THEN I double jump.
So then you're saying that Lucario, Fox, and Zelda have "impractical" recoveries also? Becuase they share the same time it requires to actually start moving with theri recovery move.
And again, you act like this moment to setup takes forever. Just as long as Fox Lucario and Zelda man.
Ugh... this post is even more wrong than the last. Seriously, do you know anything about these boys or do you just hate them or practice on Level 9s? I know all of this because I MAIN both of them.
Play a good Ness or Lucas. Yes, I know it's an overused argument that is usually weak, but whoever you are playing or wheerever you are getting this information is just stupid.
No, PKF is a key part of Lucas' game. Many people use it, and spamming doesn't always mean blind and repeptive use. I mean you can repeatedly and safely use this.
I realize this. I never said he didn't.
Yes it is, don't fool yourself. This is where the "underrated" part comes in. See below.
What kind of Nesses are you playing? Level 9 CPUs?
Of course you can do this on a stupid Ness player, but no good Ness player will allow you to eat his thunder. They will stall their descent with PSI magnet and protect themselves with Ness' godly fair. A lot of people have allowed me to make it back to the ledge, and no, they're not noobs.
It actually does take work to gimp Ness' recovery. First off, PKTRE is much easier now since the tail is longer. People who try to eat the thunder can get caught in this and die very easily due to PKT2's insane knockback.
It has long ago been established that eaten thunder is no longer much of a problem in Brawl. In Melee it was. You're probably living in the past here. The new turning radius and speed combined with PKTs huge tail make eating thunder very difficult. If you wanna eat his thunder, you pretty much have to be right over him when he uses it, but then you get uaired.
Hit Ness? Are you joking? How is this a gimp? He can easily make it back on stage even if hit out of PKT. He gets PKT back FYI.
Wrong again. I dunno where you are getting the idea that hitting one of these boys during PKT screws them. Maybe CPUs again.
And his underside defense is in his bair. lrn2lucas
So? It's like saying that for using Sonic's spin dash for recovery.
Totally serious. You just cant give me one can you? You know why? Because Lucas is VERY hard to gimp. The only way you can gimp him is by hitting the PKT bolt itself, but that's too hard to do since Lucas keeps PKT so close to himself and will probably get hit by the attack also, giving him the ability to use PKT again.
Do you know ANYTHING about Lucas?
Zap jump comes out just as fast as a double jump. Saying the opponent can easily stop Lucas from using a zap jump and magnet pull is saying that they can stop a regular double jump. Its even harder really since he rises so fast and goes so high up afterwards.
BTW, apparently you dont know what magnet pulling is either. After B-sticking and zap jumping at the same time, Lucas SHOOTS across the screen. Quite astounding really.
Below the ledge is the PERFECT place to zap jump, and near the ledge is no threat to Lucas either. You act like zap jumping leaves him so vulnerable. He can do ANY aerial he wants to and rises so high that using it at the very bottom of the blastzone is very safe.
Zap jumping is about as quick and situational as Luigi's double jump -_-
HE IS IN NO WAY VULNERABLE DURING A ZAP JUMP!!!
THe point is actually, only the characters with the better recoveries can do this, and Lucas can. His recovery isn't godly, but it gets the job done safely.
PSIM helps recovery. FACT
Its not useless, and besides, Im not saying he RELIES on this. It's just there for that ledge grabbing goodness. Do you play anyone with an optional tether recovery? I doubt it. It has its uses. Period.
This again emphasizes your lack of knowledge on Lucas nad Ness. Ness and Lucas are both midweight, not light.
And again, not true. I always use PSIM to prevent getting killed first. THEN I double jump.
Dude, it literally takes about 1.5 seconds to hit Lucas OR Ness. Their PKT2 charge times take the same amount of time.
So then you're saying that Lucario, Fox, and Zelda have "impractical" recoveries also? Becuase they share the same time it requires to actually start moving with theri recovery move.
*sigh* see above
I said "huge double jump+long ranged PKT2" looks good. May not be the best but seems good.
And again, you act like this moment to setup takes forever. Just as long as Fox Lucario and Zelda man.
Exactly. Lucas has no aerial kill moves otherwise.
Ants
Smash Cadet
Yeah, i agree with you that sonic can be gimped if you do it properly.... but practically every character can be gimped.. if you do it properly. Sonics recovery is one of the great ones, its not just "fine" as the hint says.
Also, sonics speed allows him to not be restricted to a single B move against spammers on the ground.
And I guess I can take your word for kills at early percentages
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Shadowlink, read my post and actually take what I said into consideration like a mature person.
mirkdddlhppr
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 54
Ness. Not Lucas. Why? Lucas has decent aerial and a B-Air spike, but he's not that underrated.
Not Wario due to a difficult-to-gimp recovery.
Ness has a D-Air spike, allowing early kills. He has PSI Magnet as his main defense against projectiles. And his PK Thunder is easily gimped by those with nimble hands, by simply eating it.
:D
Not Wario due to a difficult-to-gimp recovery.
Ness has a D-Air spike, allowing early kills. He has PSI Magnet as his main defense against projectiles. And his PK Thunder is easily gimped by those with nimble hands, by simply eating it.
:D
stoopdklutz
Smash Journeyman
I'm thinking Jigglypuff, because it has a great aerial game, noobs who don't go the Smashboards REALLY underestimate her, and she is suspectible to projectile spam.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Well the main reason I use this information is frm being a Sonic main so I am very quick in edge guarding and punishing attempts at recovery.
Yes but is he going to use it very often against projectile users?
For example Link and Pit. Mainly because PK fire doesn't have a great amount of range meaning if he faces Link or Pit he is going to have to get close.
If its a key part of his game then mmk you are maining him.
Mmk
Underrated applies to them as a character as a whole. Not their recovery ability.
Why allow a Ness to get back on stage?
Your friends may not be noobs but they certainly aren't trying to pressure.
I find the best way to gimp Ness is to be more aggressive since it helps in limiting his options.
Magnet to Fair? Why would I approach you directly? I would be more likely to approach at an angle where the Fair won't hit me.
And yes I do play against a Ness mainer and he isn't a noob either. Though I do admit I do not play him very often.
During his recovery attempts I always attempt to get at him at an angle whereI can avoid the Fair and land my attack.
Yes but who is honestly going to attack a Ness during a PKT2?
That's just begging to be killed due to the priority of the move as well as how quickly it moves.
I am not going to be close enough for you to Uair me though. I'll be close enough so that I can eat the thunder when you use it but out of range of your Uair.
Or I would just drop a spring on the opponent r use a move that out ranges the Uair.
You obviously missed the point.
K lets assume you already used your second jump. You PK thunder and I bair you.
You MUST use your PK thunder again if you are going to make for the ledge, in which case I can time things more easily so that if you do hit me the invincibility frames will prevent me from getting killed or knocked off the edge.
Or I hit you so that you'll be far enough away that while I am edge hogging you wouldn't normally be capable of sweetspotting the edge.
If you did have your second jump then thing would be more tricky since you would have more options and be capable avoiding my attack or countering my attempt.
however this typically would not occurs since usually when recovering the damage is high enough that when hit, the second jump must be used so as to avoid a potentially lethal KO.
Read the above.
Howe often are you going to land the spike?
If I am approaching from below I am already attack and to my knowledge the Bair doesn't have a magnificent amount of range.
Actually he does.
SJC.
Yes and how effective is that going to be?
By the time you use your PKT a second time your opponent will have edge hogged you.
I am not saying the Lucas won't recover, but I am saying that it isn't as difficult to gimp Lucas as you are portraying it to be.
I have been punished for trying to edge guard a Ness or Lucas but that more often than not I usually manage to knock them far enough for a gimp.
My mistake I was making a mistake on the trajectory of the zap jump. I was thinking along the lines of something more horizontal rather than vertical.
And yes you actually can stop a double jump but it requires very aggressive tactics and prediction.
Apparently you are skimming my posts.. Read the part where I responded to your FD statement.
Lucas defines wavebouncing.
As I said the magnet pull would work well above the ledge since below it means you MUST zap jump.
I am not saying that the zap jump leaves him vulnerable. I am talking about the moment BEFORE the zap jump not during the zap jump.
My argument is on before the actual zap jumping occurs. Not during the zap jump since it would be like trying to hit sonic during his ^B correct?
The majority of characters do have better recoveries. There aren't many that have an average recovery on par with CF.
Noone is denying that it helps.
What situations it can be used in.
Can it be used all the time from both below and above the ledge? Does it leave you vulnerable or ina state where your opponent can pressure you?
I use Link.
Tether recoveries are poor, there are better options.
Best time to use a tether recovery is when you get smashed horizontally. In which case you airdodge and tether grab the ledge.
My mistake on this then.
How often are you above the opponent?
As well as how high?
Fox is more often going to his his Over B rather than his fire fox since it gets him to the ledge more quickly and safely and more often than not, he will DI up and diagonally.
Zelda's Farore's wind is more difficult to predict in where she will be. Its not too hard to judge where a Lucas or Ness swill be aiming their PKT2.
Lucario takes a shorter amount of time to start his recovery than Lucas and Ness.
The reason I say impractical is because the recovery for Ness and Lucas give off the appearance of being more situational.
Where as Fox, Zelda and Lucario aren;t as restricted or appear as vulnerable.
Not saying that it takes forever to setup. However more often than not your opponent usually is going to know what you are going to use and will place themselves in a position to make it more difficult.
Fox, Lucario and Zelda don't have to set their recovery up.
They can always do it without any setup other than DIing a certain direction.
For Lucas and Ness it has the appearance of requiring more and with more oppurtunities to take advantage of.
I'll concede concerning lucas' recovery but I am still doubtful concerning Ness.
Actually I was agreeing with you when I mentioned that Lucas only has his Bair for killing ability in the air.
I don't recommend you say such things since there are many ways it can be misconstrued.
Yes which is why I am somewhat doubtful.
He's really the only one I can think of that could fill the categories as easily.
Yes but more often a Sonic is going to use his spindash and SJC as the method of approaching a camper or spammer most quickly and safely.
You can DAC but the timing is more restrictive.
Do the following on someone when you have a chance.
D throw off the ledge Fair~Fair.
Or use the Nair~Fair
Or Bair~Bair
unless they are MK, Kirby, jiggly puff maybe even DDD they'll have an issue getting back.
BibulousDan
Smash Apprentice
Lucas has a FANTASTIC aerial game, his Bair spike and his Fair has great knock back. not to mention you can easily combo his Dair. He also matches the description even more because he CAN be gimped during a recovery. it said so in the hint.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Bibulous I never said Lucas has a poor aerial game but in comparison to his ground game its not as good.
Nor is a Lucas going to get early kills with his aerial game.
Spiking can be difficult if you aren't spaced properly, Dair is meh IMO, Fair is pretty good as is the Uair but it isn't often that Lucas will get his kills there.
he is more likely to get his kills while on the ground.
Nor is a Lucas going to get early kills with his aerial game.
Spiking can be difficult if you aren't spaced properly, Dair is meh IMO, Fair is pretty good as is the Uair but it isn't often that Lucas will get his kills there.
he is more likely to get his kills while on the ground.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Guh... I'll respond to this tommorrow. I've gotta final I need to study for right now.
ANyways, how about you and I play eachother? I'll use Ness (because he obviously has recover below Lucas') and prove that gimping them isn't aseasy as you make it out to be. I'ts gimpable arlight, just not as bad as you think.
BTW, I wanna play a real match. I dont just want you to knock me off then edgegurd.
ANyways, how about you and I play eachother? I'll use Ness (because he obviously has recover below Lucas') and prove that gimping them isn't aseasy as you make it out to be. I'ts gimpable arlight, just not as bad as you think.
BTW, I wanna play a real match. I dont just want you to knock me off then edgegurd.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
You'll have to send me a PM.
I won't have any wifi until after the 1st since i am up with my Dad's in PA.
Good luck on your final they can be murder at times.
Chem 10400=suxxorz
I won't have any wifi until after the 1st since i am up with my Dad's in PA.
Good luck on your final they can be murder at times.
Chem 10400=suxxorz
Brainiac_man
Smash Journeyman
I think Ice Climbers, only because they addressed the hint character as "them," so... yeah.
Rampage
vx
Lucas for sure...
Mr.Snifflez
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 73
LMAO People in backroom as such freaking idiots they basically say what is obviously known
Ex. "Marios fire is good because its bounces in such a way that u cant go under or over"
"No the fire isnt good because i can simply jump over"
Ex. "Marios fire is good because its bounces in such a way that u cant go under or over"
"No the fire isnt good because i can simply jump over"
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Toon Link
Pit
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Meta Knight
Squirtle
Ike
Snake
Lucas
R.O.B.
Wolf
Marth
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
King Dedede
DK
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Sheik
Falco
Wario
Sonic
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
I'll try first (and probably fail):
Underestimated by many (I also took out previously mentioned characters)
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Toon Link
Pit
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Meta Knight
Squirtle
Ike
Snake
Lucas
R.O.B.
Wolf
Marth
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
King Dedede
DK
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Sheik
Falco
Wario
Sonic
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent.
I don't really know on this one
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Squirtle
Ike
Lucas
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
DK
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Sheik
Wario
Sonic
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks
I probably got this all wrong, but we'll see.
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Squirtle
Ike
Lucas
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
DK
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Sonic
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily
Ice Climbers
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Lucas
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
Yoshi
Kirby
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
My Final List
Lucas
Lucario
Yoshi
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Jigglypuff
Olimar
Toon Link
Pit
Mr. Game and Watch
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Meta Knight
Squirtle
Ike
Snake
Lucas
R.O.B.
Wolf
Marth
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
King Dedede
DK
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Sheik
Falco
Wario
Sonic
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Above is a tier list ( a bad one) with (presumably) all the characters. Also above are the hints. Use both in combonation to narrow down who it could be.
I'll try first (and probably fail):
Underestimated by many (I also took out previously mentioned characters)
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Squirtle
Ike
Lucas
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
DK
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Sheik
Wario
Sonic
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent.
I don't really know on this one
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Squirtle
Ike
Lucas
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
DK
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Sonic
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks
I probably got this all wrong, but we'll see.
Ice Climbers
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Lucas
Zelda
Luigi
Lucario
Yoshi
Kirby
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Ivysaur
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily
Ice Climbers
Lucas
Lucario
Yoshi
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Jigglypuff
My Final List
Lucas
Lucario
Yoshi
Ness
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Charizard
Mario
Samus
Jigglypuff
no way mk speed and arierals kill snake espically if he gets him in the air
all of snake's projectli are easy to dodge as well
Why the hell is this being discussed here?
Anyways, it can't be Ness or Lucas simply because they're just much much much more difficult to gimp than people give him credit for, especially if they're insane with controlling even the slightest angle adjustment. In reality, they can recover surprisingly quick, and by quick, I actually mean that if you aren't within short hop distance to gimp them, you should NOT try to stop them, as it's basically as effective as trying to shield a Ganon utilt.
Anyways, our choices right now are Wario (most obvious, and thus possibly least likely?), Yoshi, and Captain Falcon.
Yea, but it most likely isn't Falcon either. While his aerial game might now be his 'best' asset, it is far from 'devastating'. Nair, dair, and fair are so much more difficult to land its not even funny; just thinking about the knee brings tears to my eyes. Bair is eh, and his uair is by far his most useful aerial, but still, its not even that impressive.
Unfortunately, CF is so much of a joke character now I can hardly believe the SBR would bother talking about him over other characters. On a somewhat unrelated note, I just can't see the SBR talking and publicizing Ness at this moment in time over other characters. His tourney fate still hangs in the balance; THAT issue should definitely be addressed first and foremost. Although I don't really have any strong arguments for this, intuition just tells me its highly unlikely he'll be next week's character.
EDIT: BTW, with the exception of Link, Olimar, and Ivysaur, I rather have any other character's recovery over Ness's. Yea I said it. Ness fanboys (of whom went total ape**** when they heard 'devastating air game') can argue all they'd like how good Ness's recovery is, but that still won't change the fact that Ness's recovery in relative terms (NOT absolute) is incredibly abysmal, only superior to the three stated above. Whoa...that felt good.
It'll most likely be:
1. Wario (Even tho I personally dont find him to be underrated at all, apparently many ignorant people underestimate him. And for those who say his air game isn't devastating need to a) remember these 'hints' are all generalizations, and b) play a good wario).
2. Luigi
3. Yoshi (Arguments posted few pages back)
10char
Unfortunately, CF is so much of a joke character now I can hardly believe the SBR would bother talking about him over other characters. On a somewhat unrelated note, I just can't see the SBR talking and publicizing Ness at this moment in time over other characters. His tourney fate still hangs in the balance; THAT issue should definitely be addressed first and foremost. Although I don't really have any strong arguments for this, intuition just tells me its highly unlikely he'll be next week's character.
EDIT: BTW, with the exception of Link, Olimar, and Ivysaur, I rather have any other character's recovery over Ness's. Yea I said it. Ness fanboys (of whom went total ape**** when they heard 'devastating air game') can argue all they'd like how good Ness's recovery is, but that still won't change the fact that Ness's recovery in relative terms (NOT absolute) is incredibly abysmal, only superior to the three stated above. Whoa...that felt good.
It'll most likely be:
1. Wario (Even tho I personally dont find him to be underrated at all, apparently many ignorant people underestimate him. And for those who say his air game isn't devastating need to a) remember these 'hints' are all generalizations, and b) play a good wario).
2. Luigi
3. Yoshi (Arguments posted few pages back)
10char
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
tk~
Smash Rookie
All clues point to Zelda
...except Zelda has a ground game far superior to her aerial game. And I definitely wouldn't call Zelda underrated. She's a beast.
ShadowLink: This is true, it is much better. However, its still Luigi; it fits the 'usually good recovery' but its definitely not ungimpable. Once again, these hints are very vague, so a lot of characters can fit under these descriptions.
And while we're on Luigi, lets get into detail. Why the hell not? We have fu***** Smash Boards accounts.
Underestimated: Check. Not exactly the most underrated character, Luigi's more limited popularity (compared to that of Snake, MK, etc) and his enormous potential definitely fits the bill.
Devastating Aerial Game: Uber check. Fair kills. Bair kills. Nair kills. Dair kills. Uair juggles. Not to mention his epic downB.
Poor vs Projectiles with B exception: Check. Against the likes of Pit and TL, Luigi's options for approaching are limited....with the exception of his downB. This thing is fast, has high priority, and covers a large amount of distance in a relatively short period of time, closing the gap and brining Luigi a little too close for comfort.
Recovery is normally fine....: Check. As you said yourself, Luigi has MUCH more going for him as far as recovery goes. SideB still effective as ever, downB is now AMAZING, and his UpB will always give him the benefit of the doubt when approaching the ledge. In most cases/in an average match, Luigi shouldn't have much trouble returning to the stage.
....but can be gimped: Check. Remember, this is Luigi we're talking about. If Luigi hasn't charged a suffient enough SideB, he will almost always try to sweetspot the ledge coming from below. DownB certainly helps, but if Luigi faces a lot of aggressive edgeguarding, this will only get him so far. And with the classic no horizontal movement whatsoever for his UpB, Luigi certainly can be challenged by a competent player off the stage.
Wow, that's the third analysis I've done for this week (Yoshi before and Jiggly before that). I guess all in all, it'll still most likely be Wario just because its the SBR, otherwise I think it'll come down to Luigi or Yoshi. Go Yoshi.
ShadowLink: This is true, it is much better. However, its still Luigi; it fits the 'usually good recovery' but its definitely not ungimpable. Once again, these hints are very vague, so a lot of characters can fit under these descriptions.
And while we're on Luigi, lets get into detail. Why the hell not? We have fu***** Smash Boards accounts.
Fun to talk about: Check. C'mon...its Luigi. Who sees THAT coming?
Underestimated: Check. Not exactly the most underrated character, Luigi's more limited popularity (compared to that of Snake, MK, etc) and his enormous potential definitely fits the bill.
Devastating Aerial Game: Uber check. Fair kills. Bair kills. Nair kills. Dair kills. Uair juggles. Not to mention his epic downB.
Poor vs Projectiles with B exception: Check. Against the likes of Pit and TL, Luigi's options for approaching are limited....with the exception of his downB. This thing is fast, has high priority, and covers a large amount of distance in a relatively short period of time, closing the gap and brining Luigi a little too close for comfort.
Recovery is normally fine....: Check. As you said yourself, Luigi has MUCH more going for him as far as recovery goes. SideB still effective as ever, downB is now AMAZING, and his UpB will always give him the benefit of the doubt when approaching the ledge. In most cases/in an average match, Luigi shouldn't have much trouble returning to the stage.
....but can be gimped: Check. Remember, this is Luigi we're talking about. If Luigi hasn't charged a suffient enough SideB, he will almost always try to sweetspot the ledge coming from below. DownB certainly helps, but if Luigi faces a lot of aggressive edgeguarding, this will only get him so far. And with the classic no horizontal movement whatsoever for his UpB, Luigi certainly can be challenged by a competent player off the stage.
Wow, that's the third analysis I've done for this week (Yoshi before and Jiggly before that). I guess all in all, it'll still most likely be Wario just because its the SBR, otherwise I think it'll come down to Luigi or Yoshi. Go Yoshi.
Blue sHell
Smash Journeyman
Reading over these guesses, I notice you guys are really skipping out on some of the most key hints.
The hint leads the reader to believe that it is an aerial character with small reach on the ground and no projectile. This makes Zelda out of the question(even though she has a surprising low % killer).
Ness doesn't have a super suprise kill move that kills at low %s. PK thunder2 is quite the mindgame but realistically it's likely that you won't average one PK thunder2 kill per match. It leads him out.
Luigi isn't underestimated at all and even though he fits alot of the other hints the "one B move to help against spammers and such" doesn't fit in. If someone is spamming Wolf lasers Luigi isn't going to be like "zOmg good thing I have my Luigi Cyclone to lyk totally counter dis". It just doesn't fit.
Now lets look at this more in depth, and you'll see that all these clues directly point at only one character. Wario.
He's a devestating aerial character. Would have trouble vs some form of spammers if it weren't for his Bike(B move). Has one of the most ridiculously fast low % kills in smash history(half waft kills at 55-70ish% depending on the weight and position of opponent, it is also extremely difficult to DI considering how much of a surprise attack it is). And some of you might think Wario's recovery is godly and ungimpable, but those who really know the character know to wait for wario to bring his bike out THEN go for the slightest little hit on him to gimp him badly(any little projectile or tap while he bikes or barely jumps off his bike would do). And lets face it, even though people finally understand Wario's potential, alot of people still think he sucks. + he's fun to talk about lets face it lol.
Maining Wario I could tell you that I'm actually 100% sure its him. =/
Dexter Morgan
Smash Apprentice
I'm guessing Sonic. I grew up with Sonic as a video game idol. (Rather than Mario) But my taste for him has lately died out with all his bad games released... I loved him the most in Sonic Adventure for Dreamcast.
Browny
Smash Hater
alrighty my turn to do this again
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Next week's character will be a fun one to talk about. Underestimated by many, this character has a devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent. But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks. And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily.
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low % aerial killers
DK, Ganondorf, Ike, Link, Lucario, Luigi, marth, ness, Sonic, Wario, Yoshi, Zelda
out of them, marth, Wario and Zelda are by no means underestimated.
one b move to combat long range spam
DK, Ness, yoshi, Link, Lucario dont rely on any one b move to approach, thier aerial approaches are surperior or simply dont have a b move to use as an approach. in the case of luigi, his vB works pretty good as an approach.
So were left with Ganondorf, Ike, Sonic, Luigi
Ganon and Ike have pretty horrible recoveries, if the arent gimped, they are certainly punished. Luigis recovery has so many options gimping is hard, but by no means impossible and Sonics recovery is ungimpable to anyone who is aware that air dodging is a move in brawl.
so at the moment im leading toward Sonic, but Luigis recovery fits it better, even if his approach with a b move is debatable.
----
Next week's character will be a fun one to talk about. Underestimated by many, this character has a devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent. But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks. And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily.
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low % aerial killers
DK, Ganondorf, Ike, Link, Lucario, Luigi, marth, ness, Sonic, Wario, Yoshi, Zelda
out of them, marth, Wario and Zelda are by no means underestimated.
one b move to combat long range spam
DK, Ness, yoshi, Link, Lucario dont rely on any one b move to approach, thier aerial approaches are surperior or simply dont have a b move to use as an approach. in the case of luigi, his vB works pretty good as an approach.
So were left with Ganondorf, Ike, Sonic, Luigi
Ganon and Ike have pretty horrible recoveries, if the arent gimped, they are certainly punished. Luigis recovery has so many options gimping is hard, but by no means impossible and Sonics recovery is ungimpable to anyone who is aware that air dodging is a move in brawl.
so at the moment im leading toward Sonic, but Luigis recovery fits it better, even if his approach with a b move is debatable.