Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[Hey_Its_Nacker]

Im saying Mario with no reasons just because

 

[ShadowLink84]

ShadowLink: This is true, it is much better. However, its still Luigi; it fits the 'usually good recovery' but its definitely not ungimpable. Once again, these hints are very vague, so a lot of characters can fit under these descriptions.

agreed.

And while we're on Luigi, lets get into detail. Why the hell not? We have fu***** Smash Boards accounts.

Amen. Make use of what you have right?

Fun to talk about: Check. C'mon...its Luigi. Who sees THAT coming?

Fun is somewhat subjective. Ig uess they mean fun as in WOMG I DID NOT KNOW THAT! Type of thing.
I think its more insinuating the surprise. which leads to the first actual clue.

Underestimated: Check. Not exactly the most underrated character, Luigi's more limited popularity (compared to that of Snake, MK, etc) and his enormous potential definitely fits the bill.

This can be sid for many characters.
Not only that but Luigi has been known for getting a definite boost.
Characters like Lucas, Ness and Sonic are typically forgotten. Sonic because people have automatically assumed he is a bad character, Ness and Lucas because they do not think the character will place well.
I am quite sure that people realize Luigi has great potential. Well I do anyway.

Devastating Aerial Game: Uber check. Fair kills. Bair kills. Nair kills. Dair kills. Uair juggles. Not to mention his epic downB.

Sonic can do the same as can Ness.
Sonic's Uair and fair and Dair and Bair and Nair can kill at lower percents during an edge guard. He can travel much farther away from the stage than most characters and the knock back of these moves is more horizontal. More so than mk's Fair, Bair, Dair and Nair.
For luigi he has a good ground game, and is capable of getting kills on the ground.
He has a good game on the ground.
I think the character is hinted towards having a bad ground game or a poor one.

Poor vs Projectiles with B exception: Check. Against the likes of Pit and TL, Luigi's options for approaching are limited....with the exception of his downB. This thing is fast, has high priority, and covers a large amount of distance in a relatively short period of time, closing the gap and brining Luigi a little too close for comfort.

Agreed.

Recovery is normally fine....: Check. As you said yourself, Luigi has MUCH more going for him as far as recovery goes. SideB still effective as ever, downB is now AMAZING, and his UpB will always give him the benefit of the doubt when approaching the ledge. In most cases/in an average match, Luigi shouldn't have much trouble returning to the stage.

I don't think thats more accurate. In comparison to other characters Luigi's recovery is quick.
Down B has excellent horizontal and vertical recovery.
Couple with a side B to ^B that can be DI'ed more greatly tha Fox, his recovery is looking good. Couple with the priority of his down B it becomes more difficult to edge guard him without getting hit.

....but can be gimped: Check. Remember, this is Luigi we're talking about. If Luigi hasn't charged a suffient enough SideB, he will almost always try to sweetspot the ledge coming from below. DownB certainly helps, but if Luigi faces a lot of aggressive edgeguarding, this will only get him so far. And with the classic no horizontal movement whatsoever for his UpB, Luigi certainly can be challenged by a competent player off the stage.

Yes except that if he meets aggressive edge guarding he can counter with hi beastly Nair.
In the unlikely occurrence he ends up below the ledge he can down B then uppercut so that he lands on the stage without any lag.
If you to to edge guard him while he is in the middle of a side B,down B you run the risk of getting injured and losing an attempt at an edge guard.
The up B would only be used close to the ledge so unless the Luigi was a good distance below the stage I don't think he'll have any great issue trying to get up. I think he can be gimped and I have done it before on my friend but its more difficulty with how high he floats in the air.

Wow, that's the third analysis I've done for this week (Yoshi before and Jiggly before that). I guess all in all, it'll still most likely be Wario just because its the SBR, otherwise I think it'll come down to Luigi or Yoshi. Go Yoshi.

Automatically yoshi.
Why?
Because he is green. And can fly when he's the color blue. And Hawt.
Even seen that tail in action?

 

[Sudsy86_]

It appears number 8 is either Ike or Ness--probably Ness, considering his aerial game is phenomenal.

Anyways, here is a short, informal tier list I made a little while ago--assuming people have some interest in reading it.

Top tier:
Ness--what can I say, my Ness is literally borderline unbeatable when I don't sandbag. The less gravity in Brawl makes it as easy as urinating to pull off down PK thunder torpedo attacks. Ness is utterly cheaply good. His basic a-attacks are amazingly quick, too.

Pikachu--like Ness' PK thunder, Pikachu's thunder attack is incredibly cheap with the new gravity in Brawl. He's quick, has a very convenient return, and packs a darn good punch. Nearly as pragmatically good as my Ness, actually ( Ness absorbs the electric attacks, primarily B and down-B).

Ike--what a cheap trucking mother this guy is. What more can I say? His return move takes him eight miles upwards, his sword's length spans the entire earth, his basic attacks are ridiculously powerful, and his counter-attack is not slow and deals 1.2x the damage of the attempted move. He's slow, yes, but who needs to move when your sword can barely help but poke someone's eye out, naturally?

Mario--quite the suprise here, I know; but Mario's attack (quickness + difficulty to control+ power) are probably the best in the game. Actually, some Mario's are the only characters my Ness struggles to defeat. Did I mention that Mario can freely down-Smash and then connect with an over-smash immediately very easily? Plus, the avid use of fireballs mess up players, like me, who use alot of running attacks.

Second Tier: Shiek-- quick, quick, quick. Her attacks are amazingly quick, and she puts on damage very easily. Plus, her returns awesome as well.

Kirby--Kirby has absolutely no flaws at all.

Game & Watch-- Game & Watch is actually far worse than he was on Melee, but he's still ridiculously offensively-brilliant. All his attacks connect with a crap load of ease--more so than possibly all others.

Diddy--Diddy's athletic prowess is probably unmatched, with the possible exception being Shiek. Diddy is SUPER quick, and his aerial game is both efficient in how easy you can get three moves in before landing and how powerful his simple attacks are. His dodging abilities are amazing, and his jetpack is very convenient when controlled precisely.

Meta-Knight--MK's moves are extremely quick, annoying, and effective; thus pure gold. His ability to pull off combos amazes me. ( I was once ko'd, when sandbagging, after being grabbed by MK, tornadoed upwards, slashed upwards, slashed, and tornadoed into oblivion at 51 damage.) He's hard to beat because of his attack quickness. Period.

 

[Theftz22]

First i was thinking wario, then fox. I mean, his B-Side can be a fine recovery, but firebird can sometimes be gimped. his aerials are really great, and his B-move against projectile spammers would be his shine . I think that he's underestimated. It's just a guess though, so don't get too mad at me.

Umm..can someone please respond to me.

 

[Tenki]

It appears number 8 is either Ike or Ness--probably Ness, considering his aerial game is phenomenal.

Anyways, here is a short, informal tier list I made a little while ago--assuming people have some interest in reading it.

[insert list here]

._.; wrong thread for that. All the generalizations and flaws to point out aside, anyway.

 

[rathy Aro]

It appears number 8 is either Ike or Ness--probably Ness, considering his aerial game is phenomenal.

Anyways, here is a short, informal tier list I made a little while ago--assuming people have some interest in reading it.

Top tier:
Ness--what can I say, my Ness is literally borderline unbeatable when I don't sandbag. The less gravity in Brawl makes it as easy as urinating to pull off down PK thunder torpedo attacks. Ness is utterly cheaply good. His basic a-attacks are amazingly quick, too.

Pikachu--like Ness' PK thunder, Pikachu's thunder attack is incredibly cheap with the new gravity in Brawl. He's quick, has a very convenient return, and packs a darn good punch. Nearly as pragmatically good as my Ness, actually ( Ness absorbs the electric attacks, primarily B and down-B).

Ike--what a cheap trucking mother this guy is. What more can I say? His return move takes him eight miles upwards, his sword's length spans the entire earth, his basic attacks are ridiculously powerful, and his counter-attack is not slow and deals 1.2x the damage of the attempted move. He's slow, yes, but who needs to move when your sword can barely help but poke someone's eye out, naturally?

Mario--quite the suprise here, I know; but Mario's attack (quickness + difficulty to control+ power) are probably the best in the game. Actually, some Mario's are the only characters my Ness struggles to defeat. Did I mention that Mario can freely down-Smash and then connect with an over-smash immediately very easily? Plus, the avid use of fireballs mess up players, like me, who use alot of running attacks.

Second Tier: Shiek-- quick, quick, quick. Her attacks are amazingly quick, and she puts on damage very easily. Plus, her returns awesome as well.

Kirby--Kirby has absolutely no flaws at all.

Game & Watch-- Game & Watch is actually far worse than he was on Melee, but he's still ridiculously offensively-brilliant. All his attacks connect with a crap load of ease--more so than possibly all others.

Diddy--Diddy's athletic prowess is probably unmatched, with the possible exception being Shiek. Diddy is SUPER quick, and his aerial game is both efficient in how easy you can get three moves in before landing and how powerful his simple attacks are. His dodging abilities are amazing, and his jetpack is very convenient when controlled precisely.

Meta-Knight--MK's moves are extremely quick, annoying, and effective; thus pure gold. His ability to pull off combos amazes me. ( I was once ko'd, when sandbagging, after being grabbed by MK, tornadoed upwards, slashed upwards, slashed, and tornadoed into oblivion at 51 damage.) He's hard to beat because of his attack quickness. Period.

There's not enough time in my lunch period to explain what's wrong with this list. =/ I'll say this much, MK and Snake are missing at the top. Also this isn't really a tier discussion thread, right?

Based on my previous list, I'd say its one of the earthbounders. If you think they can't gimp then you haven't gotten a bair to the face before (or maybe I just don't DI XD).

 

[ShadowLink84]

My head exploded when I saw that list.
Trying to find all the pieces now.

 

[Ants]

First i was thinking wario, then fox. I mean, his B-Side can be a fine recovery, but firebird can sometimes be gimped. his aerials are really great, and his B-move against projectile spammers would be his shine . I think that he's underestimated. It's just a guess though, so don't get too mad at me.

Umm..can someone please respond to me.

no its not fox. his aerials do not kill at a low percent and hes not underestimated. Hes not too popular now either, but hes definitely not looked down upon. Fox IS one of the common projectile spammers, he can just spam back. Sure, shine works too, which shows that its not just ONE of his B moves.

 

[YoshiBomb]

I'm gonna say Yoshi why...

Because Stone Cold said so

and if I guess Yoshi every time ill be right eventually

 

[-Aether]

Next week's character will be a fun one to talk about. Underestimated by many, this character has a devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent. But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks. And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Devastating Aerial Game: Ike
Ground game that is weak to projectile attacks: Ike
Spamming B-attacks (Aether and Quickdraw): Ike

Some parts dont quite fit, but it could be Ike.

 

[PK-ow!]

Lucario.

Spoiler

10

 

[Sudsy86_]

There's not enough time in my lunch period to explain what's wrong with this list. =/ I'll say this much, MK and Snake are missing at the top. Also this isn't really a tier discussion thread, right?

I don't agree with it completely right now. ( I'd probably go with Ness, Pikachu, MK, and Mario at the top, by the way). Also, I posted it here because it's the first thread I even looked at and didn't even consider whether or not it was appropriate here. My mistake.

Based on my previous list, I'd say its one of the earthbounders. If you think they can't gimp then you haven't gotten a bair to the face before (or maybe I just don't DI XD).

Are you talking to me here? I don't think I ever said Ness ( or Lucas) can't kill at low percentages. In fact, gimp kills are often (intentionally) two, and occasionally three, of my five stock kills. I think Ness is the easiest character to use on a competitive level, actually. I won't mention the details, though it's obvious how one would do it, just in case some good players aren't that familiar with good Ness play.

 

[GoForkUrself]

Ness is an aerial master. His sweet spotted b-air is one of the most deadliest aerial attacks. His d-air is competes with Ganon for the strongest spike in the game. His u-air is suprisingly deadly, and his f-air is great for damage building along with his neutral air as a "get out of my face" move.

His PSI Magnet grants him some protection from projectile spam. His PK Fire can sometimes trap opponents, or set up firewalls by hitting things like ROB's gyro. PK Thunder is a great recovery move except that opponents can gimp it by simply jumping off the edge and absorbing the shock.

Ness' ground game generally has one purpose; to get his opponents into the air so that he can use his strong aerial game. His f-smash is devastating, but requires knowing your opponents actions to land.

Ness' grab game also sets him apart from the rest of the cast. Having a back-throw that is a reliable kill move, it puts pressure on the opponent not to get grabbed. His forward throw sets up nicely for spikes, as it throws the opponent the same distance even if they are at 0%. Down-throw sets up nicely for aerials as well.

Even with his recovery that can be gimped by jumping into the PK Thunder, Ness has the potential to make the second highest tier. Ness is a force to be reckoned with.

Come on, after reading that, how can you think it is anyone else but Ness.

 

[BibulousDan]

Except that Lucas does not spam his B move on the ground.
Lucas has a strong ground game. His aerial game is poorer.

You said right there that Luc had a "poor" aerial game so don't try to say that you didn't.

 

[Vaul]

Game & Watch-- Game & Watch is actually far worse than he was on Melee.

I have lost my faith in humanity.





10char

 

[Trace_User500]

Ness. The B-move is PSI Magnet.

 

[CharOfTheWeek]

Update #8: ?????

Next week's character will be a fun one to talk about. Underestimated by many, this character has a devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent. But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks. And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Aside from the uproar over infinites, ICs don't seem to really be taken too seriously.

Ice Climbers.

Desynched squall hammer, iceicle, blizzard seem to be the choice moves to approach spammers or to get in range.

With Nana.

Enemy keeps Nana far away.

Without Nana to help recover.

Missing:
Devastating aerial game (though a Nana-Fair spike off the edge may count).

 

[Trace_User500]

Yes but who is honestly going to attack a Ness during a PKT2?
That's just begging to be killed due to the priority of the move as well as how quickly it moves.

They're trapped in the tail.

 

[Genghis Tom]

its Luigi

great aerials
easily gimped during/after rocket (recovery)
low % kills with up special
"B" move is tornado

 

[Kitamerby]

Lucario.

Spoiler

10

...*CRY*

Come on, after reading that, how can you think it is anyone else but Ness.

Ness is very difficult to gimp if the Ness user knows what they're doing and doesn't screw up. Also, his gimp kills aren't too common, and he has many options against spammers, from PSI Magnet to unusual jumps to counter spam to ducking.

Ness. The B-move is PSI Magnet.

*FACEPALM*

 

[ShadowLink84]

They're trapped in the tail.

This is taking the tail into account.
Anyone who lets themselves get caught in the tail of PKT2 either was setup well or really screwed them self over.

 

[Vaul]

Ice Climbers.

Once...again. It's presumably for keeping the character gender neutral. They've used 'their' to describe past hints as well...all of whom have been single characters.

And IC ground game amazing much? mkthxbai

 

[UnSaxon51]

Next week's character will be a fun one to talk about. Underestimated by many, this character has a devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent. But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks. And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily.

I am legitimately surprised that more people aren't saying the very, VERY obvious choice of Wario.

Wario is the aerial king of Brawl. Seriously. His movement in the air is on par with Jiggly's, all of his aerials have high priority and at least decent damage, and his air dodge is excellent. His Dair is comparable with Yoshi's (minus the spiking but also with zero lag), and his Uair is one of the best low damage killers in the game.

Wario has NO RANGE ON THE GROUND. Zero. None. Zip. Ftilt and Dtilt are his longest reaching attacks, and while they are excellent to hit, they both have pretty poor ending lag. Bite (Neutral B), is his only defense against projectiles, and it only works on some of them. But then, you should be in the air most of the time anyway.

Wario can either recover from everything or nothing. Wario is almost completely dependent on his Bike to survive. This is a problem for two reasons. If your opponent gets ahold of the bike, you're pretty much screwed, AND if you do use it successfully, it's pretty easy to telegraph and intercept. Corkscrew is a mean attack, but a blah recovery, and the fart, while awesome, is extremely limited.

It seems to fit WAY better than anyone else in the roster.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hmm ya its probably Wario, after reading your post. At first i was thinking of Kirby . And i do underestimate Wario, and i guess he is a 'fun' character to talk about, since he's so strange.

Edit: actually, im also thinking of another character... Yoshi. His Up air can kill at low percents, his aerial game can be 'devastating', and if not, at least Good/OK, due to his momentum during his jumps not being canceled while using aerial attacks, so he can link many aerials together, for example he can do 3 up airs, which, if landed right, could gauruntee a 1-combo-KO. He is DEFINITELY underestimated by MANY MANY people. And against Projectile Users, he can use his Egg Toss as a projectile too, so that they would be 'equal'. And if thats not the B move they're talking about, it could also be his Side B, since it can cancel out many attacks, so he could use it as a sort of shield. His recovering could be gimped, since his '3rd jump', the Egg Tosses, is a bit slow moving, smart players could spike/hit Yoshi away while dodging/getting around Yoshi's Egg. And another downfall that his recovery has, is that this 2nd Jump is very important because of its distance, and if you waste it because of a mistake or such, you usually wouldn't be able to count on your Egg Throw to recover.

 

[talking_chicken]

I guess DK. You don't hear much about him in the main boards, though people say he can be high tier material. Bair is great for approaching and can kill, up B is good when you land right, but still fairly easy to gimp. As for against projectile spammers, side B? Super armor with up B? I dunno...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wario bike isn't used?
Blasphemy.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Alright... my final answer is... YOSHI!!! Im quite sure now since he is probably the most underestimated character, or at least one of them. And you can see how underestimated he is cus so far, it seems like i'm the only one who posted here saying Yoshi for Char # 8.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

i think Charoftheweek is right it is Ice Climbers

 

[Mr Mattastic]

It's totally Dr. Mario but if not him Wario

 

[BibulousDan]

It's totally Dr. Mario

Falcon Punch to all your children!

just kidding, you're probably dead on.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

lol Dr. Mario. I considered IC, but i dont think they are. They have chaingrabs, = good ground game, = not limited ground ability. Plus they are good on the ground, they have a projectile. And they have 2 good B moves against spammers, Side B and B, and may be even Down B for 'close range' spammers.

And they USED to be underestimated, but now with their CGs known to ppl, they aren't. But then again i guess that lots of ppl still may not know about their CGs, and therefore still say things like: IC have been nerfed so bad, they suck now.

im still sticking to Yoshi

 

[HeoandReo]

Got to be Wario. Can't see any other way around it.

"Next week's character will be a fun one to talk about."

Wario is presented in the game as a more unorthedox, humourous character. A walking taunt, per se. He was intended to be more 'fun' than 'serious'. I know this point means little, but the rest should help figure it out.


"Underestimated by many,"

In earlier times, Wario was very underestimated, many people putting him in mid/low/bottom tier in their attempts at tier lists. Not anymore, though. I think he was still somewhat underestimated by the time that the hint was posted, but don't take me up on that.


"this character has a devastating aerial game that will surprise you when it takes you out at a low percent."

Wario's been referred to as the king, master, and possibly god of the air. nair and fair combo and edgeguard, bair is alright, uair kills easily, and dair is also good. He has good lateral movement as well, and can weave through his foes quickly with airdodges.


"But on the ground this character doesn't have very many options against long range or projectile spamming characters other than one of their B attacks."

Chomp or Wario Bike, depending on the projectile. Wario has little ways to approach spammers.


"And this character's recovery can be fine sometimes, but against smart opponents this character can be gimped quite easily."

This describes Wario Bike to a tee. A jump off a Wario Bike is about the height of one of Wario's jumps. That alone is higher than recoveries of certain characters. As a result, it is very important to a Wario user's recovery. If a smart opponent leaves it on the stage, Wario's recovery is horribly gimped.


Now that I think about it, it could be Ness too, but I'm having second guesses about his aerial game, and his bat can reflect projectiles, if my memory serves, so he's not totally helpless there.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yes, Ness's bat can reflect projectiles

and btw, when will the 8th char be revealed? And if there is, what is the certain day that a new 'week' starts, where u reveal another character?

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

Actually, it could be marth, his counter only works against projectiles, and wario cant eat all projectiles (lasers)

 

[Blackbelt]

Actually, it could be marth, his counter only works against projectiles, and wario cant eat all projectiles (lasers)

I believe the "Underestimnated by many" line kills that theory.


I'm going with Wario.

 

[manhunter098]

I think Ill say it again...I said it once before, a couple days back, but people just seem to think that just because a character relies on a single B attack to help them deal with projectiles and longer range attacks...it means the rest of their ground game sucks, which isnt necessarily the case, they could still have a relatively strong game up close, though chances are it is still not going to be as good as their aerial game, their ground game CAN still be good and fit with this hit.



That said, I still think Wario fits the best, and his ground game really is nothing close to spectacular, its definitely at least decent though, if only because of his great side smash.

 

[MiraiGen]

That said, I still think Wario fits the best, and his ground game really is nothing close to spectacular, its definitely at least decent though, if only because of his great side smash.

The only thing that makes me think it ISN'T Wario is the fact that "Devastating" can easily be taken to mean "KOs with many aerials."

Other than that he fits perfectly.

 

[Vaul]

And you can see how underestimated he is cus so far, it seems like i'm the only one who posted here saying Yoshi for Char # 8.

dsijfaoisdjghieowra;eiwfjawio;efhaw





10char

 

[Shirum]

I think a little reverse psychology would help out determining who it is. For example, if it were Yoshi, wouldn't you say something about a weird projectile? If it were Ike, wouldn't there be a line about his speed and range?

Wario sounds pretty solid thus far.

 

[St. Viers]

wario would spam his bike to deal with projectiles, not his bite >_>