Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[Nublet]

awesome projectile game and awesome recovery. has pit written all over it. and pit is anything BUT a slouch,,,

 

[redgreenblue]

Doesn't matter that it's a (great) recovery move, the point is that it's not Falco's only one, and his other one is far more easy to gimp. When they're talking about "recovery" in the clue, I doubt they're only talking about just one of their recovery moves (if more than one exists). Yeah, Falco mains will use Phantasm any chance they get, but that doesn't mean Fire Bird doesn't count as a recovery move anymore (especially since you're going to have to need vertical recovery at some point, such as if you get spiked, and in cases like that you'll have no choice but to use Fire Bird).

When they talk about recovery, they mean the character's recovery metagame. Falco's revolves around his phantasm and surprise fire birds. It's hard to get Falco below the stage at any point, and when he does, it's still hard to gimp a fire bird going straight into the ledge from below. Gimping fire bird is only easy when the character is too low off the edge to use phantasm, or gets knocked under a stage with an underside ledge that does not curve (ie. FD).

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Its totally pikachu.

 

[St. Viers]

lol lol lol it's obviously bowser XD

moreseriously, I'd like to point out that they don't say awesome recovery, they say one that is hard to punish.

 

[ElPadrino]

I say Toon Link.

 

[gameboii]

olimar possibly?

 

[Arikie]

I think falco fits the details in the hint.
"One way or another, this character can be frustrating to approach with the character's great projectile game, but is no slouch when you get in close."
Falco's laser stuns and has long range, when you get close he can kick his deflector (down b) at you or use his phantasm (side b).
"a recovery that is hard to punish," his phantasm is pretty fast and the user can choose with timing whether to try for the edge or not, it also spikes in midair making it risky to pursue falco off the edge. On the ground it can be used to retreat and shoot more lasers.
"frustrating to approach" and "a character that only very few would enjoy playing against."
I think the word for this is "camper"

btw the quotes are from the hint.

 

[manhunter098]

Its not Toon Link because his Spin Attack is easy to punish on the ground. A disjointed hitbox owns it...and a well timed attack after it ends owns it too.


The BEST clue here is that the recovery that is hard to punish on the ground and in the air statement and the fact that they can make it difficult to approach by using projectiles. And that applies the best to Pikachu, Zelda, Falco, and maybe Pit, but Im not too familiar with his wing tech, though his recovery is a bit easy to gimp off stage, so thats somewhat iffy.

 

[spacemanspiff]

lol lol lol it's obviously bowser XD

moreseriously, I'd like to point out that they don't say awesome recovery, they say one that is hard to punish.

does it have super armor? i thought it was like DK's and you could spike him out of it

 

[goodkid]

Either: Toon Link, Pit, Falco, Lucas, Olimar, Pikachu

Most Likely Olimar-he is doing good, but not placing first as much as Snake, and MK are.

 

[Airgemini]

Update #7: ????

The last hint was a bit tough (you had to know ROB well), but don't think these will get any easier!

This week's character is someone who nearly everyone thinks is a very strong competitor, but strangely isn't placing as well in tournaments as some would expect. Perhaps nobody has tapped into the character's true potential yet? One way or another, this character can be frustrating to approach with the character's great projectile game, but is no slouch when you get in close. Couple that with a recovery that is hard to punish, whether you use it in the air or on the ground, and you have a character that only very few would enjoy playing against.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

I think it'll be Zelda. I have the reasons why in bold in the quote.

- From what Ive seen Zelda isnt placing too well in tournaments but is still pretty strong.
- Can be hard to approach with Din's Fire. Notice it also says projectile not projectiles.
- When someones close she has high priority smash attacks.
- Recovery is somewhat hard to punish because theres an attack when she reappears.
- She can use FW on the ground also.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[manhunter098]

Well Zelda's hitbox for FW isnt exactly that high of a priority, and shes definitely vulnerable to an attack with a disjointed hitbox at the start of the move and the end of the move. Its defintiely hard to punish for recovery if you sweetspot it though, thats for sure. But on the ground it is somewhat easier to punish though still difficult if you are facing her with a character that only has melee attacks and melee attacks with shorter ranges.

@ goodkid: Its definitely not Olimar. His recovery is incredibly easy to punish on the ground or in the air...the hitbox on the ground is tiny...and you can pretty much just nail him head on plus its very hard to setup the attack when you use it on the ground. In the air...well you just get edgehogged and die.

 

[Koop_88]

My educated guess would be Falco.

 

[GetSmashedWithTheBros]

My educated guess would be Falco.

right, because falco's recovery is totally something to speak of


although i will admit that my thoughts first jumped to him. but i'm sorta feeling zelda/toon link, but i'm leaning toward zelda - who else really uses their recovery on the ground...?

 

[manhunter098]

Falco's recovery isnt that bad. You just have to save your second jump just in case you get knocked below the stage, and use Phantasm to recover whenever it is useable, it really does cover quite a distance.

 

[bacun]

My money's on Lucas as well. As a Lucas main, I can tell you right now that both a tether grab and an un-interruptable PKT1 are great complements to a long range and obscenely high priority PKT2 and make it very difficult to block his recovery. As long as you have good muscle memory for aiming it in multiple directions, you can PKT2 and recover even from a reflexive angle beneath FD's curve. Compared to Ness, whose recovery is no slouch, he's ages better. And because of its length, even from almost halfway across FD, it would take godly timing or a quick perfect shield and chase to punish it. PK fire spam is one of the least approachable projectile spams because of how much you can move in between Fires. His Stick and dSmash are amazing for spacing mindgames, particularly the 3-hit aspect of the dSmash and a quick fTilt as an interrupt. His upclose game is mainly good to hit them back out into Fire harass range, then for a quick, well placed KO at 80+. And he doesn't see very much tournament play; when he does, I don't think I've seen very many Lucas wins at all. He's a very difficult character to pick up, and even with 80+ hours clocked, at least 60 of them Lucas, I'm still learning new things about him every day (I only figured out the precise angle to recover from deep below FD like... last week. and I'm still slowly picking up on tactical use of his tether).

This describes a lot of characters, but I'd place bets on Lucas.

 

[Conda]

I like how Lucas players consider PKT2 recovery something they need to learn how to do.

 

[bacun]

I like how Lucas players consider PKT2 recovery something they need to learn how to do.

Yeah, okay, champ.

 

[manhunter098]

Lucas's PKT2 is pretty good used on stage, and its startup and finish are great, but its definitely quite vulnderable to high priority moves in the middle portion of the attack. Furthermore using the thunderslide to aid in its use is sort of more of an aerial use, at least from my view. And if you use it on stage its easy for your opponent to predict the angle...sideways. And its not too hard time since you can pretty much see it coming.


Plus I mentioned it before, but there are some pretty bad matchups for Lucas now with the whole grabbing thing. But at leasts hes not really nearly as bad off as Ness.


But I have to say I love this hint, its been one of the best we have had for some good discussion.

 

[A2ZOMG]

right, because falco's recovery is totally something to speak of

The Phantasm is one of the most difficult recovery moves to punish whether used for recovering, or for attacking. It starts up faster than normal humans can react.

Honestly, I think Pikachu's Quick Attack Cancels are also viable for relating to the hint about hard to punish recovery.

It could be either. Both have great recovery, are good projectile spammers, and are agreed to be good competitors. I'm not sure who places where in tournaments though.

 

[manhunter098]

Well when its used for recovery the timing that your opponent uses it at is going to be relatively predictable, since they still need to either sweetspot or recover above the platform, if they do the first the timing they use it at can be predicted very well, with the second its a bit harder to time, but a bit of ending lag, though not extremely consequential could lead to the occasional punishment for a player who guesses Falco's recovery plans correctly.


Still nothing like the sheer unpredictability of Pikachu's recovery though.

 

[TheGlitchMaster]

quote the guy from cdi zelda "this is illegal, you know?"

 

[ForteEscape]

I think it'll be Zelda. I have the reasons why in bold in the quote.

- From what Ive seen Zelda isnt placing too well in tournaments but is still pretty strong.
- Can be hard to approach with Din's Fire. Notice it also says projectile not projectiles.
- When someones close she has high priority smash attacks.
- Recovery is somewhat hard to punish because theres an attack when she reappears.
- She can use FW on the ground also.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Seconded.

Spoiler

10char

 

[goodkid]

I think it'll be Zelda. I have the reasons why in bold in the quote.

- From what Ive seen Zelda isnt placing too well in tournaments but is still pretty strong.
- Can be hard to approach with Din's Fire. Notice it also says projectile not projectiles.
- When someones close she has high priority smash attacks.
- Recovery is somewhat hard to punish because theres an attack when she reappears.
- She can use FW on the ground also.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Of course! Wasn't really thinking when I said olimar.

 

[soloSHADOWROB]

Im saying its Lucas
Really good projectile game
Hard to punish his recovery move and is used both effectively in the air and on the ground.
Also hes good at close range fighting.
People dont really place well with him at tourneys tho.
So my educated guess is Lucas.

 

[soloSHADOWROB]

Another good guess could be Pikachu
Hes no push over when he fights up close
He can spam that Thunder Jolt a long time for spaming game
His recovery is not so easily punishable cuz its so fast
and since to his new technique (QAC) Its used insanely well as a mind game and ground move.

 

[chansen]

I'd say Dedede if it weren't for the good recovery move on the ground. He just about fits all other depictions. And besides, he's sakurai's favorite.

 

[J1nx]

I'm thinking pikachu fo sure. Not many other characters use their recovery on the ground and he's got a pretty decent projectile..

 

[Mysteryfox1]

Pit is my guess I main him and the hint fits him well.

 

[RushHour1049]

This week's character is someone who nearly everyone thinks is a very strong competitor, but strangely isn't placing as well in tournaments as some would expect. Perhaps nobody has tapped into the character's true potential yet? One way or another, this character can be frustrating to approach with the character's great projectile game, but is no slouch when you get in close. Couple that with a recovery that is hard to punish, whether you use it in the air or on the ground, and you have a character that only very few would enjoy playing against.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Ok let's break up the hints here.
-Almost everyone think this character is strong (top/high tier)
-Not placing well in tournaments (so not MK or snake, just high tier)
-Great projectile game (by this point I'd say the only characters fitting the criteria so far is D3, Olimar, Pit, or Toon Link. Why not Zelda, Falco, or Pikachu? Because not everyone thinks those characters are strong. Falco maybe, but he doesn't fit that description at all like D3, Olimar, Pit, and Toon Link do.)
-Good recovery that is very hard to gimp or punish (That rules out D3, Olimar, and Pit. Toon Link is the only remaining choice.)
-Recovery move is useful on the ground (Toon Link fits here too)
-VERY annoying character (Toon Link IS extremely annoying. Frikken back air wall of pain )

So yeah, my bet is Toon Link.

 

[Kirin]

When I first read it, I thought Olimar.

T. Link is a good guess too though.

 

[St. Viers]

Ok let's break up the hints here.
-Almost everyone think this character is strong (top/high tier)
-Not placing well in tournaments (so not MK or snake, just high tier)
-Great projectile game (by this point I'd say the only characters fitting the criteria so far is D3, Olimar, Pit, or Toon Link. Why not Zelda, Falco, or Pikachu? Because not everyone thinks those characters are strong. Falco maybe, but he doesn't fit that description at all like D3, Olimar, Pit, and Toon Link do.)
-Good recovery that is very hard to gimp or punish (That rules out D3, Olimar, and Pit. Toon Link is the only remaining choice.)
-Recovery move is useful on the ground (Toon Link fits here too)
-VERY annoying character (Toon Link IS extremely annoying. Frikken back air wall of pain )

So yeah, my bet is Toon Link.

Want to see where you logic fails?

-"Recovery move is useful on ground"--doesn't say useful, says hard to punish. TL's is very easy to punish ^__^

 

[Kirby Redux]

Im thinking Lucas. His recovery, though not great w/out PK Thunder, is very hard to punish when you do use it. His ground and aerial games are both pretty good as well. The other options could be Sonic or Captain Falcon.

 

[St. Viers]

cause they have projectiles...right ^_^

 

[biohazard930]

Ok let's break up the hints here.
-Great projectile game (by this point I'd say the only characters fitting the criteria so far is D3, Olimar, Pit, or Toon Link. Why not Zelda, Falco, or Pikachu? Because not everyone thinks those characters are strong. Falco maybe, but he doesn't fit that description at all like D3, Olimar, Pit, and Toon Link do.)

Who doesn't think Falco is a strong competitor? From all I've seen, most do. And I'd say Falco's laser is better than at least the Waddle Dees.

And @All:

Olimar not only fails because of his recovery, but it's not particularly difficult to approach Olimar, I'd say. Only the purple pikmin causes knockback.

 

[Doodx]

hmm not zelda.. toon link ? yeah definately

 

[manhunter098]

Its not Toon Link because his recovery when used on the ground leaves him wide open to strong projectiles and large disjointed hitboxes the ENTIRE time its going, and leaves him open to melee attacks right after it finishes. Therefore it is easy to punish.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

Ok let's break up the hints here.
-Almost everyone think this character is strong (top/high tier)
-Not placing well in tournaments (so not MK or snake, just high tier)
-Great projectile game (by this point I'd say the only characters fitting the criteria so far is D3, Olimar, Pit, or Toon Link. Why not Zelda, Falco, or Pikachu? Because not everyone thinks those characters are strong. Falco maybe, but he doesn't fit that description at all like D3, Olimar, Pit, and Toon Link do.)

who doesn't think falco or pikachu are strong characters?
and for that matter, who isn't afraid of zelda's 10 KO moves?

-are you saying falco has a bad projectile game or that he's placing well in tournaments?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

...Toon...just my guess

-Ter

 

[D13]

Could be Toon Link, but his up b on the ground really isn't very useful. I dunno.