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Smash 4 in Famitsu: Lucina, Robin, Captain Falcon, Kirby's Lucina Mask

Oracle_Summon

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Why wouldn't they?All of the confirmed alts follow the male/female variations so far
That is because Amy Rose and Sonic fight in totally separate ways. Amy uses her PikaPika hammer to fight (mainly to harass Sonic) in the majority of games she appeared in.

Sonic uses his speed, mainly breakdancing type moves to fight as seen in Sonic Battle (For Game Boy Advance).

Shadow is the one who makes the most sense for an alternate costume since he and Sonic share the majority of moves.

Knuckles tears down his opponents with brutality and fights with brute strength.

Knuckles and Amy would have to be separate characters.
 

Ryuutakeshi

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Awww, Lucina's thrust doesn't match how she does it as a great lord. I love that animation.

Oh well, I'll still enjoy playing her.
 

praline

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Probably not, I have a hard time seeing Chrom having to be cut mid-development, I doubt he'd run into technical problems or be of low priority, and if nothing else he could probably be a semi-clone of Ike at least. Plus, I'm sure the only reason we have two Awakening reps is because of Lucina being an easy clone to make, I doubt they'd include both Robin and Chrom as unique characters, he was probably always a final smash.

I think it's a newcomer who ran into technical problems personally, we have seen just how ambitious Sakurai has been with them this time..
Like the Choir Boys.
 

The Light Music Club

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Doesn't matter how "stupid" it is. Sakurai and staff were willing to do it with Lucina. Therefore it's a possibility and could possibly be in the game already. I would be surprised if we don't see any other Alt character costumes that represent a different character such as Daisy-Peach, Birdo-Yoshi and Sonic-Knuckles.

Why would it be stupid? It's not like the characters in Smash are 'true' to their physical origins hence the resizing of Olimar. Therefore the characters are not canon which would allow these characters to play like a similar character without any issues. Especially when the characters are extremely similar. I mean what does Peach really do that Daisy can't?

If anything this is an extremely smart play by Sakurai to allow fan favorite characters to join Smash even if they are almost identical. I can guarantee you won't see Daisy, Birdo or Knuckles in Smash as playable characters unless they are alt skins.

I'm very sure that Lucina is different because she is supposed to be Marth for about half of her game. That's why they were willing to do it with Lucina. They'd put the mask on Marth and that would be the costume. They wouldn't need to make him a completely different person. Daisy is never supposed to be Peach, Birdo is never supposed to be Yoshi. Lucina in her game is supposed to BE Marth at points. That's why they were willing to do it.

A Peach into Daisy and Yoshi into Birdo make no real logical sense at all. For instance, with Marth if he were to be wearing the Lucina Mask, they could still say "This game's winner is.... Marth!" Even they could slip in Dark for "Dark Pit" or even say it's Pit and have Dark Pit yell "I'm not Pit!" but you can't just have a one-slot that says "Daisy" or "Birdo" that just isn't right!
 

Kamikazek

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I'm very sure that Lucina is different because she is supposed to be Marth for about half of her game. That's why they were willing to do it with Lucina. They'd put the mask on Marth and that would be the costume. They wouldn't need to make him a completely different person. Daisy is never supposed to be Peach, Birdo is never supposed to be Yoshi. Lucina in her game is supposed to BE Marth at points. That's why they were willing to do it.

A Peach into Daisy and Yoshi into Birdo make no real logical sense at all. For instance, with Marth if he were to be wearing the Lucina Mask, they could still say "This game's winner is.... Marth!" Even they could slip in Dark for "Dark Pit" or even say it's Pit and have Dark Pit yell "I'm not Pit!" but you can't just have a one-slot that says "Daisy" or "Birdo" that just isn't right!
From the translation of this interview in the first post-
"The have different names and voices but play the same, and would receive treatment similar to male/female WFT, Villager and Robin."
If it was supposed to just be Marth wearing Lucinia's clothes they wouldn't have been planning to give her a different voice than Marth, and they certainly wouldn't give her a different name(which also probably means the announcer would refer to the alt. by their actual name, not the name of the character they used as a base. So a Daisy alt. would be called Daisy instead of Peach). All evidence says that Marth's alt. was actually supposed to be a different character, Lucinia. The fact that she masquerades as Marth for a while doesn't change the fact that she's a completely different person.

Just because two characters share a spot on the select screen. From what this article and Sakurai's miiverse post, apparently in the context of this game sharing the same slot means they play exactly the same, but doesn't at all imply that they're the same person.
 

The Light Music Club

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From the translation of this interview in the first post-
"The have different names and voices but play the same, and would receive treatment similar to male/female WFT, Villager and Robin."
If it was supposed to just be Marth wearing Lucinia's clothes they wouldn't have been planning to give her a different voice than Marth, and they certainly wouldn't give her a different name(which also probably means the announcer would refer to the alt. by their actual name, not the name of the character they used as a base. So a Daisy alt. would be called Daisy instead of Peach). All evidence says that Marth's alt. was actually supposed to be a different character, Lucinia. The fact that she masquerades as Marth for a while doesn't change the fact that she's a completely different person.

Just because two characters share a spot on the select screen. From what this article and Sakurai's miiverse post, apparently in the context of this game sharing the same slot means they play exactly the same, but doesn't at all imply that they're the same person.
I think the fact that they don't share the names and voices is what made him think to make her a separate character in the first place. He could very well of thought of having her called Marth, and then thought about it some more. He later decided since they are really not the same character to make her a character of her very own. We don't know. But that's what I think. Hence why I don't think Peach-Daisy will happen.
 

Dillo64

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That is because Amy Rose and Sonic fight in totally separate ways. Amy uses her PikaPika hammer to fight (mainly to harass Sonic) in the majority of games she appeared in.

Sonic uses his speed, mainly breakdancing type moves to fight as seen in Sonic Battle (For Game Boy Advance).

Shadow is the one who makes the most sense for an alternate costume since he and Sonic share the majority of moves.

Knuckles tears down his opponents with brutality and fights with brute strength.

Knuckles and Amy would have to be separate characters.
Soinc and Shadow actually fight quite differently, Shadow tends to use Chaos Control more. Also Shadow is an AT.

If any Sonic character is going to be a costume for Sonic then it's Metal Sonic, who was built to copy Sonic in every way.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Soinc and Shadow actually fight quite differently, Shadow tends to use Chaos Control more. Also Shadow is an AT.

If any Sonic character is going to be a costume for Sonic then it's Metal Sonic, who was built to copy Sonic in every way.
I cannot believe I forgot Metal Sonic. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 

Saikyoshi

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I still can't understand why Sonic doesn't become Metal Sonic when he grabs the Metal Box.

...except consistency, of course.
 
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NoiseHERO

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There you go. I honestly think his real Skyward Sword outfit look like some odd pajamas bought at a bazaar.
Saw this, a re-color is a re-color. I honestly like outfit + artstyle of skyward Link. Even though Smash4's Link in general looks like vague mix of the two, but more leaning towards TP Link.
 

Kamikazek

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I think the fact that they don't share the names and voices is what made him think to make her a separate character in the first place. He could very well of thought of having her called Marth, and then thought about it some more. He later decided since they are really not the same character to make her a character of her very own. We don't know. But that's what I think. Hence why I don't think Peach-Daisy will happen.
Well it's true that we don't know for sure in the sense that it's certainly possible Sakurai and Famitsu are being somewhat facetious about why Lucinia was separated in the way they're saying things and what information they are choosing to include. It could possibly be the reason you just stated. But what we've actually heard from them so far seems to indicate that the reason they were separated wasn't because they are different characters. Either way it shows that at some point they were O.K. with the two sharing a slot, which says a lot. I apologize in advance for being accusatory, but I feel like you're choosing to go along with the interpretation that most fits what you want their stance on alt characters to be, rather than what makes the most sense. Which is of course fine when you're talking about what you want, but when you're debating about what the actual situation is...

As for the idea of Daisy being a Peach alt., that's a whole 'nother matter. Even going by my interpretation that it's gameplay based, them sharing a slot still depends on Sakurai thinking it's O.K. for Peach and Daisy to play exactly the same, which he might not since Peach's moveset is very feminine and Daisy is mostly a tomboy. Or he might be totally cool with that, who knows. But the issue of if what Peach has in this game can be made to fit Daisy is a whole different issue from whether or not Sakurai is ever O.K. with alts being different characters or if sharing a spot in any way implies that two characters are the same character.
 
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The Light Music Club

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Well it's true that we don't know for sure in the sense that it's certainly possible Sakurai and Famitsu are being somewhat facetious about why Lucinia was separated in the way they're saying things and what information they are choosing to include. It could possibly be the reason you just stated. But what we've actually heard from them so far seems to indicate that the reason they were separated wasn't because they are different characters. Either way it shows that at some point they were O.K. with the two sharing a slot, which says a lot. I apologize in advance for being accusatory, but I feel like you're choosing to go along with the interpretation that most fits what you want their stance on their stance on alt characters to be, rather than what makes the most sense. Which is of course fine when you're talking about what you want, but when you're debating about what the actual situation is...

As for the idea of Daisy being a Peach alt., that's a whole 'nother matter. Even going by my interpretation that it's gameplay based, them sharing a slot still depends on Sakurai thinking it's O.K. for Peach and Daisy to play exactly the same, which he might not since Peach's moveset is very feminine and Daisy is mostly a tomboy. Or he might be totally cool with that, who knows. But the issue of if what Peach has in this game can be made to fit Daisy is a whole different issue from whether or not Sakurai is ever O.K. with alts being different characters or if sharing a spot in any way implies that two characters are the same character.
Oh, and yeah. I mean, I could see it going either way, and maybe I am being a bit bias towards what I feel like should be done. I get watch you mean though, we don't know what Sakurai really thinks, so we won't know for sure until we see the final product. While I personally don't like the idea or think it's going to happen, it for sure is totally possible.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Oh, and yeah. I mean, I could see it going either way, and maybe I am being a bit bias towards what I feel like should be done. I get watch you mean though, we don't know what Sakurai really thinks, so we won't know for sure until we see the final product. While I personally don't like the idea or think it's going to happen, it for sure is totally possible.
Agreed. Though, I do think the best way we can judge Sakurai is by the April 8th Trophies.
 

Dracometeor

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I'm very sure that Lucina is different because she is supposed to be Marth for about half of her game. That's why they were willing to do it with Lucina. They'd put the mask on Marth and that would be the costume. They wouldn't need to make him a completely different person. Daisy is never supposed to be Peach, Birdo is never supposed to be Yoshi. Lucina in her game is supposed to BE Marth at points. That's why they were willing to do it.

A Peach into Daisy and Yoshi into Birdo make no real logical sense at all. For instance, with Marth if he were to be wearing the Lucina Mask, they could still say "This game's winner is.... Marth!" Even they could slip in Dark for "Dark Pit" or even say it's Pit and have Dark Pit yell "I'm not Pit!" but you can't just have a one-slot that says "Daisy" or "Birdo" that just isn't right!
I don't agree. I think it would be cool and I believe it is something that they are willing to do. Sorry if it doesn't feel right to you.
 

staindgrey

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Here's what interests me more than the possibility of a cut character (which could be a mistranslation):

If Lucina were originally an alternate costume for Marth with a change in name, voice and everything, does that mean that there are further character-changes-that-are-just-costume-swaps as well?
 

Aguki90

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Lucina was added late in my humble opinion. Even Sakurai during Pic of the day say she was added later soo, she a new clone. I think Robin was the real one to be add since the beginning.

Super Smash Bros. Avatar? (Villager, Mii Fighter and Robin are personal Character.)
Kirby look cool with the mask...but...

Lucina kill my hype, I don't feel right with her around in Smash.
Now I miss Roy...
 

TeaTwoTime

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That was a great read. Thanks for the link. :)
Yeah, I'd say Gematsu is still alive at this point.
 
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Icedragonadam

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From the wording, Chrom was considered but not planned. So I think he was scrapped before Sal's tipster got to look at any "information".
 

Pyra

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This doesn't mean "Gematsu lives".

This means Sakurai considered Chrom. He was decided against because he'd just be another weenie swordfighter.
Lucina was planned, as an alternate costume for Marth. However, her attack characteristics were different so she was given a different slot.

The difference between her and Chrom is that Lucina was actually intended on being put in. Chrom wasn't intended to be a playable character. Considered, but not planned. Sure Lucina is pretty much a physical clone of Marth with a very slight functional difference, but she was planned.

If anything, it hurts Gematsu more, I think.

Not that I care. Just pointing it out.

tl;dr: Chrom was never planned to be a fighter. Considered, maybe. But not planned.
 
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Dracometeor

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This doesn't mean "Gematsu lives".

This means Sakurai considered Chrom. He was decided against because he'd just be another weenie swordfighter.
Lucina was planned, as an alternate costume for Marth. However, her attack characteristics were different so she was given a different slot.

The difference between her and Chrom is that Lucina was actually intended on being put in. Chrom wasn't intended to be a playable character. Considered, but not planned. Sure Lucina is pretty much a physical clone of Marth with a very slight functional difference, but she was planned.

If anything, it hurts Gematsu more, I think.

Not that I care. Just pointing it out.

tl;dr: Chrom was never planned to be a fighter. Considered, maybe. But not planned.
Lucina wasn't planned to be a fighter though either....
 

Banjo-Kazooie

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Welp, so much for being excited for surprises if Gematsu is still living after the discovery of this information. But I still hope we can get more newcomers and not just Choir Boys and Shulk.

Also, I cannot stress this enough. When I say I hate the Gematsu leak, I don't say I hate the Choir Boys or Shulk. Both characters are well deserving to be in Smash. I just don't like the fact of being spoiled and having not anymore surprises. Robin could be the last surprise newcomer we are getting.

A chill ran through my spine.

EDIT: In the least damaging case. This helps the theory that the Gematsu roster was the the earliest one Sakurai had created at the start of develpment. So changes and cuts were made during it.
 
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Pyra

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Lucina wasn't planned to be a fighter though either....
Yeah she was. She was first considered to become a Marth alt, but then planned to be her separate character slot because of her differences.

Chrom wasn't planned to fight in any capacity, correct? :4pacman:
Lucina was.

If the Gematsu leaker did in fact have a roster list, it wasn't even who Sakurai decided to be in the game. Just considerations. This means that the leak could have been legit, but incorrect and unreliable. He would have had correct information... but the wrong information.

There does exist the possibility Chrom was the only altered consideration (besides Lucina's promotion to separate character) and that's the reason why Gematsu actually got a lot right. In that case, more power to Gematsuites.

Other than that, I don't think of any way this information would help the leak.
 
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Kamikazek

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Yeah, the way Sakurai said it makes it sound like he thought about Chrom, but he was never on the actual list of planned characters for the game. He's used similar words to describe characters like Balloon Fighter that never even made it to the production planning phase. If that is so, then either the Gematsu whatever was wrong about Chrom(and totally missed the fact that Robin was planned for the game), or the info is so outdated that they don't even know what the finalized preproduction character list is. It certainly doesn't strike me as saying that Chrom was cut at any point.

At best Sakurai's statement is ambiguous and we don't know whether Chrom was ever planned for the game or not, which puts us right back where we started before this article.

I'm honestly somewhat baffled as to why people are saying this means Gematsu was right.
 

andalsoandy

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I'd say the only thing really hurting Gematsu at this point is the last minute email about Shulk's trailer being next.

It IS possible that Chrom was cut after Gematsu got that information, even if the scan was mistranslated.

I don't necessarily believe Gematsu is credible at this point but I wouldn't be surprised if Chorus Kids and Shulk were confirmed.
 
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Your Hero

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The only alts that make sense is Dark Pit. The mirror of Pandora or whatever makes him a carbon copy stat wise. Daisy, Birdo, Knux, ETC don't make any sense what so ever. Heck, I don't even agree with Lucina being an alt, unless it was just Marth with the mask to look like Lucina.

Color swaps to look like characters are fine (Yello Peach, Black Pit, ETC) but to actually make a character become someone else would be stupid imo.
What about Impa for Sheik? They're both Sheikas and likely learned the same fighting style. Hilda for Zelda would be pretty sweet too.

Also I haven't played Kid Icarus, but are Dark Pit and Pit actually different people in that series or is one some sort of manifestation of the other (or are they twins?). I know Dark Pit was created because the dark skin in Brawl was popular, so I don't see why Dark Pit wouldn't make sense as an alt with his own voice and maybe different coloured arrow?

Either way, given that they ultimately made Lucina her own character, I would think the above characters would get their own slots as well. Impa being a clone of Sheik and Dark Pit being a clone of Pit. If they could do it for Lucina I don't see why they couldn't do it for them too.

EDIT: I can't read. My apologies for the Dark Pit question I'm clearly an idiot haha.
 
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FancysaurusRex

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Welp, so much for being excited for surprises if Gematsu is still living after the discovery of this information. But I still hope we can get more newcomers and not just Choir Boys and Shulk.

Also, I cannot stress this enough. When I say I hate the Gematsu leak, I don't say I hate the Choir Boys or Shulk. Both characters are well deserving to be in Smash. I just don't like the fact of being spoiled and having not anymore surprises. Robin could be the last surprise newcomer we are getting.
Why does everybody say this? Gematsu never claimed that was the full roster, and even if the leak was still alive, it obviously missed characters (Like Rosalina, Lucina, and Robin). Everybody acts like Gematsu was the end of newcomers, when it never gave a single indication that that was the case.
 

Banjo-Kazooie

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Why does everybody say this? Gematsu never claimed that was the full roster, and even if the leak was still alive, it obviously missed characters (Like Rosalina, Lucina, and Robin). Everybody acts like Gematsu was the end of newcomers, when it never gave a single indication that that was the case.
Though there might be more newcomers not related to Gematsu. If Gematsu was right, then each trailer becomes a greater chance to be either Shulk or Chorus Kids. And while they will be well done, the vibe of "oh thanks to Gematsu I knew they were coming" kills a bit of joy on their reveal to me. Its more fun if its something you are not expecting.

For me, Palutena's and Pac Man's reveals could have been a lot more exciting if I werent expecting them already thanks to Gematsu. Meanwhile, things like Robin were a lot more cool to see how we get something that was not accounted for.

Sakurai already stated that the newcomers list is getting to the end. So it will be easier to predict each time if its Shulk or Chorus Kids if Gematsu is right. The whole thing is like Xmas and Santa Claus comes a month before and says "You are getting this thing, its not exactly what you wanted, but its still a good present".
 
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Your Hero

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@ Banjo-Kazooie Banjo-Kazooie Shulk and a Rhythm Heaven rep (not necessarily Chorus Kids) are coming. That doesn't mean there aren't other characters. If Gematsu is accurate, then it's incredibly outdated, because Chrom was cut in favour of Robin who they've been working on for a while (which Gematsu never accounted for).

So don't stress over the leak. There will be more characters. Sakurai's proven to us on Monday that he's not as predictable as we assumed (thanks to Gematsu).
 

Shroob

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Though there might be more newcomers not related to Gematsu. If Gematsu was right, then each trailer becomes a greater chance to be either Shulk or Chorus Kids. And while they will be well done, the vibe of "oh thanks to Gematsu I knew they were coming" kills a bit of joy on their reveal to me. Its more fun if its something you are not expecting.

For me, Palutena's and Pac Man's reveals could have been a lot more exciting if I werent expecting them already thanks to Gematsu. Meanwhile, things like Robin were a lot more cool to see how we get something that was not accounted for.

Sakurai already stated that the newcomers list is getting to the end. So it will be easier to predict each time if its Shulk or Chorus Kids if Gematsu is right. The whole thing is like Xmas and Santa Claus comes a month before and says "You are getting this thing, its not exactly what you wanted, but its still a good present".
Of course there will be.... Like Dark Pit!

.....What? You were expecting the trollface emote? I'm being serious.
 

Gidy

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I hate to say it, but it sounds like Snake to me. He was started but Sakurai didn't get permission and therefore he was canned.
I can't think of another reason for a character to be cut.
I might be Chrom, but I can't understand why he would be cut.
It can't be Snake. http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/14/kojima-open-to-snake-returning-in-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u

I really don't care for anymore newcomers. I hope that we can just get some returning smash veterans that have still not been announced like Ice Climbers, Ness, and Jigglypuff. If characters we're cut like Chrom then wouldn't they have delayed the game to finish him? Sakurai does want to make Smash 4 complete, which is why there is no DLC.
 

Your Hero

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Chrom being the cut character doesn't really defend Gematsu. They claimed right at E3 2014 that Chrom was still coming when he was very likely cut before that. Not to mention Gematsu said Ness or Lucas were being discussed on the chopping block, not Chrom.

Not saying their information is wrong, it's just outdated. They gave us info that was being discussed back in 2012, Sakurai has had 2 years to change his mind on various things.
 
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MasterOfKnees

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.....Gematsu....lives?
Doesn't sound like he was ever close to getting on the roster though. Other characters that were probably considered likely includes Delphox, Chesnaught, Bowser Jr, Toad, plus a ton more guys, perhaps even Waluigi and Shadow. For a game like this I'm sure there are over 100 characters that have their chance but are quickly written off, reading the column it seems like Robin was a match made in heaven for Sakurai from day one.

Of course Chrom was considered at some point, but like he said that's only natural given his popularity. Ridley was probably considered for Brawl too, but that doesn't mean he was ever close at becoming a character in the game.
 
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