Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Teczer0]

:< made me sad.

I know how that feels hahaha.

I think PC did that to me.

 

[KirbyKaze]

:< made me sad.

I know how that feels hahaha.

I think PC did that to me.

Unknown was such a gentleman. He didn't even shoot me with lasers after breaking my shield.

Although... he probably should have.

 

[soap]

Here's me getting my shield broken in tournament to entertain you in the meantime.

did u just.. beat unknown in a set? omg

I had to leave early to start drinking with drew and trail


Sometime later that night I took a piss in an MU fountain

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i wish i knew u guys were all going to that tourney, i might have gone... sigh


KK i think it was more sad that after your shield broke you held on for dear life for 100%+, got a grab at the edge, and the suicided mid gimp lol

Great set dude, very well played. Good to see you finally beating unknown in a series ^^

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol ty sveet

kind of a flukey win though tbh

 

[soap]

kind of a flukey win though tbh

COUNT EM

I just watched that dair>nair>bair like five times



anyways I need more than one friendly next time. I wanna get better at this game again. Maybe expect a trip in December.

Trail was joking after tourney, "Man, Canada is pretty good, when did that happen?"

 

[silentSWAG]

all the threads are talking about the big house.
kirby kaze is sooo fun the watch
shout outs to canada
and this dosent have much to do with sheik so il leave

 

[KirbyKaze]

I got the style

I got the flair

 

[Juggleguy]

so uh

KirbyKaze = the most fun Sheik to watch

and it's not even close

 

[soap]

so uh

KirbyKaze = the most fun Sheik to watch

and it's not even close

I still like watching Amsah more

KK has sick precision and followups, but Amsah's movement seems to have more intuition

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think I like watching M2K's Sheik the most (mainly because of his gimps). Amsah's is also really lovely. OTF has a beautiful Sheik too, but I haven't seen much of his lately.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Watching KK and M2K make me want to play sheik. Then i do and dont make it out of pools

 

[omgwtfToph]

Yo, quick sheik question. I find myself using cc dtilt a lot (out of habit?) and it seems to be pretty useful, particularly against characters like Marth and maybe Falcon. Should I not be using it much against spacies, though? I feel like cc shieldgrab is a better choice against Fox, for example, but are there times when cc dtilt is better?

tl;dr when is cc dtilt good, and when isn't it?

 

[nicaboy]

Yo kk is amazing im looking forward to some vids man great job dude!

I have a sheik question guys. I need to be better at tech chasing fox. I can vs falco but fox is harder for me. I hear if I do the dash grab instead of jc grabs its easier to tech chase in general. How do I dash grab and how do I know im doing it right?

Toph I dont think cc dtilt is as rewarding vs space animals in comparison to dsmash but if you manage to land it and it pops them it could lead to fair. At lower percents I dont see why anyone would use it all as it leads to a whole lot of nothing. Dtilt is a good sheild poke though which I should use more as a mix up tbh haha.

Edit ya cc grab is good of course too man. I use it depending on the sitiuation and percents. you can build more damage off of grab but if down smash can knock em off I can go for a quick gimp.

 

[soap]

dtilt has more range than dsmash. that's when u use it.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I meant dtilt as opposed to grab, not dtilt as opposed to dsmash. Why would I dsmash a space animal at low % anyway? lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

why would you dtilt a spacie at low percent?


I think itd be better to cc dsmash at low percent cause it is like twice as fast as grab does a lot of dmg/knockback and potentially knocks them down. Grabbing is ideal, but I was watching KK vs unknown and KK would cc dsmash since there wouldnt be time to cc grab (you gotta be faster than the shine)

 

[KirbyKaze]

I have the power to death-touch people if I'm anything remotely on point.

 

[soap]

ya don't dtilt a spacie at low percent. Their CC dtilt is better than yours.

I look for grab, if not enough lag then dsmash, sometimes u just gotta CC shield

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah pretty much what soap said.

 

[joejoe22802]

So how do you get in against puff? Also how aggressively can you play while avoiding big punishes? I have a hard time because I feel boxed out and pushed around the stage when a puff is using yer bair. I generally just be backed up but what are some strategies to trade, challenge, and regain stage control?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I played andale in friendlies with sheik last time i went to a tourney, and it really wasnt that bad... Tilts arent as useful, obviously. Also if you predict a bair you can just roll into them and it really ****s them up if they aren't expecting it. I definitely wouldnt rely on, though. Andale is pretty rest happy and he didn't rest me out of the roll, but im sure its possible under certain conditions. I think sheik has frame advantage in that situation though.

 

[ChicknMonkey]

I needle cancel with "Z", is that okay?

 

[sulliman1]

Also if you predict a bair you can just roll into them and it really ****s them up if they aren't expecting it.

fake like you're gonna outspace with bair facing backwards (maybe throw it out a few times outside of punishment distance) and then roll behind them when calling bairs, her back roll is so much better than her forward one

 

[Devil Ray]

yo kirbykaze, nice matches against trail despite having to go peach. i know this is your 2nd time against him, but what do you think about the sheik-IC's matchup?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm hesitant to comment on that MU because I have such limited experience in it.

Speaking about that set specifically, I think my problem game 2 was that I got scared of him and stopped pressuring him like I did game 1. I also think his punishes were more consistent game 2 and he varied his movement a lot more, and I wasn't confident in my adaptation skills at the time for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure why I lost total faith in my ability to corner him, because I was getting a lot of mileage out of it, but bleh. My brain refused to function on that one.

Anyway, I don't think the MU itself is anything horrific. I think ICs might win by a little bit, but it's certainly a doable MU in tournament.

 

[Devil Ray]

i dunno man. that matchup seems particularly bad for sheik. an IC's player that never messes up grabs (trail messed up a few) is super scary.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I know what you're saying and I don't disagree but like... I just want to point out that Trail wasn't the only person messing up execution. I failed a lot of L-cancels on his shield, messed up a lot of platform-based maneuvers, and mistimed a lot of actions after hitting his shield because of the added shield lag. These all wound up being extremely costly.

If you compare my execution to Drephen's, I think his execution is actually better throughout the set than mine.

I don't want to make this, "I messed up more than him, if I was playing better I would have smoked him!" Mostly because I'm not sure that's true, and I'm not sure that broadcasting unfamiliarity with a MU is a good way to gain credibility.

I just think that when all's said and done, it's a winnable MU. Possibly IC's favour. Most of the reason I found Trail scary was because his movement was really funny the second game and I didn't know how to adjust to it properly due to my inexperience with them. I also made some very careless decisions that involved attacking his shield with a poorly spaced dash attack and an accidental f-smash that both cost me a lot of damage (if not whole stocks).



.

 

[IGiveUp]

Botched fall-through fair Fsmashes on platforms are my favorite. It just screams "**** me, I'm being an idiot on a platform."

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Kira once screwed up a waveland -> walk-off fair against Lucky in the last match, last stock of a tourney set. He ended up doing an awkward fsmash on the side platform of Yoshi's; Lucky jumped into it and it somehow comboed into a fair that won Kira the set.

 

[IGiveUp]

I wish I could have seen that. Also, this is off topic, but round robin IC tournament. Fly, Wobbles, Chu, and whoever else doesn't suck with ICs.

 

[bubbaking]

Wow, so many posts on this thread, probably because there are so many Sheik "mains"......tells you everything about the integrity of today's meta. (-_-')

 

[KirbyKaze]

What does the rise in Sheik mains tell you about the "integrity" of today's meta?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

What does the rise in Sheik mains tell you about the "integrity" of today's meta?

That it's GAY, KK.

Smooth Criminal

 

[IGiveUp]

KK don't get trolled. The dude has 40 posts, and apparently mains MK in Brawl. He trollin. No one with integrity mains MK.

Also, Sheik is pretty ridiculous.

 

[KirbyKaze]

How to use Sheik's fair and bair effectively.

I mean, there's more ways to do them, but this is a good sequence showing how good those moves are and some of the simple applications they have.

 

[bubbaking]

What does the rise in Sheik mains tell you about the "integrity" of today's meta?

Well, of course, the meta now is supposed to be more advanced, developed, and relevant than it was in the past, but if this 'development' has led to an increase in the Sheik numbers, then that means Sheik is what is 'relevant' to success and if you are using someone else, you are trying too hard because that character is becoming obsolete. The same goes for Fox and Falco. In other words, if you aren't one of those three top tier characters, you are fading into obscurity. Remember when HugS used to get to the finals and quarterfinals of big melee tourneys? He's still active, but where is he now?

 

[Kaffei]

Hey KK, is it a bad idea to do falling nair against Falco? Like to jump over his lasers or something
:S

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Well, of course, the meta now is supposed to be more advanced, developed, and relevant than it was in the past, but if this 'development' has led to an increase in the Sheik numbers, then that means Sheik is what is 'relevant' to success and if you are using someone else, you are trying too hard because that character is becoming obsolete. The same goes for Fox and Falco. In other words, if you aren't one of those three top tier characters, you are fading into obscurity. Remember when HugS used to get to the finals and quarterfinals of big melee tourneys? He's still active, but where is he now?

Do we really need to justify this kid with a response?

Smooth Criminal

 

[KirbyKaze]

Well, of course, the meta now is supposed to be more advanced, developed, and relevant than it was in the past, but if this 'development' has led to an increase in the Sheik numbers, then that means Sheik is what is 'relevant' to success and if you are using someone else, you are trying too hard because that character is becoming obsolete. The same goes for Fox and Falco. In other words, if you aren't one of those three top tier characters, you are fading into obscurity. Remember when HugS used to get to the finals and quarterfinals of big melee tourneys? He's still active, but where is he now?

What happened to Hugs? Hugs retired. He still got to WQFs and LQFs and whatever deep into his career but eventually he stopped playing entirely. That's all there is to it. Citing Hugs is really stupid of you, though. Samus has actually been performing pretty well in strong regions like FL, but some of these players (Plup) simply don't travel. Duck recently got top 8 at a MI tournament with S2J, Lovage, the finest MW players, and most of EC Canada's top players (Raynex, myself, Unknown522, weon-x). How's that for "fading into obscurity"?

Moreover, I'd think Axe, Armada, and Hungrybox's tournament placings would be good enough to demonstrate that other characters can compete in this metagame (and win!). Some of these characters are still relatively new to "competitive character" status, so I find it hard to believe they're becoming obsolete already. Peach is still pulling strong placements, and it's not just from Armada all the time. VaNz has had some really strong showings in his last few tournaments.

I mean, if you want to march up to Armada and tell him he's wasting his time on Peach because Peach can't compete and there's not enough development on her to allow her to keep up with the metagame you can do so. But you're probably just gonna get laughed at because that stance is absolutely ridiculous. Same for Hungrybox, etc.

tl;dr you're ********.