Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Fortress | Sveet]

I like to think of zelda as a similar character to ganondorf; mobility being the main weakness but long range, high reward pokes being the strength. Zelda has less lag than ganon, by far, and this includes her smashes. Zelda's fsmash and dsmash are deceptively fast and meaty. I am confident ICs can't shield grab zelda's dsmash and I don't think there is enough lag to WD into anything. I will check AR later to see the stats.

Basically, it is quite difficult for ICs to break through the walling tactics of zelda, which is something fairly unique for them. Marth can try to do this, but marth's walling tactics have been pretty much figured out. Zelda's smashes and quick lagless aerials are able to shut down ICs approaches better than virtually any other character.

 

[Wretched]

What is the general consensus on the matchup ratio of Sheik to Falcon.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think Sheik beats Falcon by more than 6-4.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I timed out a Zelda on Dreamland a year ago with ICs. It was funny. I don't know much about that match-up in general, but I would like to emphasize that ICs have very little obligation to approach Zelda and are probably more capable of camping her than vice versa.

edit: I do generally have a harder time with Zeldas than Sheiks, but that probably has more to do with match-up familiarity than the actual ratios, whatever the heck those are.

 

[gm jack]

What is the general consensus on the matchup ratio of Sheik to Falcon.

Harder for falcon to learn than sheik, but close to even once falcon knows what to do though still sheik's favour.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I timed out a Zelda on Dreamland a year ago with ICs. It was funny. I don't know much about that match-up in general, but I would like to emphasize that ICs have very little obligation to approach Zelda and are probably more capable of camping her than vice versa.

edit: I do generally have a harder time with Zeldas than Sheiks, but that probably has more to do with match-up familiarity than the actual ratios, whatever the heck those are.

But that zelda was some random guy, and you had to time him out. Cosmo is used to timing people out too, and knows how to deal with camping (he played vs kels for a long time)


basically, i would love if cosmo started playing again, especially outside of the region, so people would understand some of the things he does with zelda a lot better.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I didn't have to time him out, considering that I could beat him soundly otherwise. I just felt like being an ******* that game. That little story was just an amusing anecdote that I felt like sharing, though, and I wasn't trying to make the case that ICs have to time out Zelda or whatever else you seem to think I said.

Cosmo is awesome and I'd like to see him play more often.

 

[ChicknMonkey]

Does anybody know the angle measurement that sheik throws the needles in the air?

 

[soap]

48.6 degrees

 

[john!]

48.6 degrees

stop rounding, you scrub.

chicknmonkey, it's 48.57329 degrees

 

[ChicknMonkey]

Nice stuff

 

[gm jack]

Knowing the angle isn't nearly as useful as having a feel for it though.

 

[reggin867]

i wish west coast would travel more.

I wish everyone would travel more actually.

 

[ChicknMonkey]

I know, i just wanted to know the angle so i could piss of my friends by telling them it after i needle them

 

[nicaboy]

Kk I have to disagree I really doubt zelda is better than sheik in that match up. I guess zelda may not be bad in it(i wont go into details) but I think your lack of exp(i assume you dont play vs ic"s in canada) and general dislike of the match up makes you bias sometimes.

Sheik"s need to learn the match up its not as bad as everyone wants to think. I believe m2k amsah and rayku have the geists of what to do.

I played my brothers ic last night and although he only managed one match to beat me(fd is terrible for us) I consistantly won with 2 stocks. I feel I learned how to properly use sheiks titls in the mu which I use them definsivly. I also played uber ice a while back and lost him although I totaly felt I could win.(johns I was super high and I know I play much better sober so never again). I also did pretty well vs wobbles in our friendlies back at to6(which im still incredibly salty about that experiance in general). He talked to me about the match up and it was nice to hear his tthoughts about it. he said he believed its even(save fd) and that sheik"s fair can keep them at bay. He also went ahead and said most sheiks are just terrible and the match(and just *****). It be nice if I could get a nice session in with a good ic player but there so rare. Oh ya rayku also said all he really did was space fair to beat uber ice and wobbles way back then. Its a boring playstyle I know but amsah does the same damn thing(i believe he thinks its even too). M2k does alot of **** lmao.

I guees you can also opt out and use someone who would have a much easier time learning to fight vs them(fox peach marth) but personaly I like to use sheik only in tournament.


Anyway I posted longer than i generaly do but just wanted to get that out there. I might go to a tournament this weekend and thanks god it aint florida. I feel I can win it although I have some thearts (lol all fox players chinesah druggedfox and my brother) as well as xif chadd mike g merk and fullmetal but im confideint in those match ups enough. I will ask for advice from all my fellow sheiks(specific advice not the general omg im clueless) tommorow.

 

[Ministry]

this is a long post for something that doesnt matter because you are bad

 

[KirbyKaze]

I felt Zelda was better because they said it was manageable (some went as far as to say, "easy"). It's kind of weird to see so much agreement so I figured her walling has to be worth something. I also do think she's generally safer on block or hit in the MU, which Sheik can have issues with at times. Though, Fly brings up a good point that I really didn't consider so I'm conflicted again.

My limited experience with Canadian ICs players involves me 3-stocking them with a bunch of different characters. I don't really base most of my MU knowledge off my results but, rather, what I think they could do to counter what I'm doing as I'm playing and my thoughts after the session. I think Ice Climbers are worse at fishing for mistakes than Sheik but the grab KO combo (or 85%) is a good balance for them.

I don't really disagree with any of your theory on the MU. I am aware of what Sheik's good tools are on them. I just also think Ice Climbers can do a good job of counter-camping, need fewer clean exchanges to win, and have some other stuff in the MU that make them good against Sheik. That's all, really.



.

 

[joejoe22802]

AC Shield Drop FAIR to JAB

 

[Devil Ray]

lulz at the idea that sheik vs IC's are in sheik's favor, or even. IC's have an advantage, they know it and so should we. pretty sure it's 40-60 in favor of IC's

has everyone forgotten how they can **** with just one grab? not just on sheik, but nearly everyone? on top of that, you can't grab them back. it's such a risk it's not worth it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ray chun how goes it

come home

 

[Kaffei]

so is it worth it to use zelda vs ics lmao

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you're gonna pick up a hard counterpick for ICs, I generally feel you either do Peach or nothing at all.

 

[john!]

some ic's players spend a lot of time practicing that matchup. if you already have a decent zelda, and the ic's player has peach practice, then it might be better to stick with zelda. otherwise, go for it

 

[Kaffei]

If you're gonna pick up a hard counterpick for ICs, I generally feel you either do Peach or nothing at all.

Well I have a pocket peach so maybe ill try that lol
also what's the M2K tech chase?

 

[KirbyKaze]

This is the M2K tech chase.

I don't feel like explaining it though just watch it.

 

[Devil Ray]

Ray chun how goes it

come home

sveet! sup man. i wish i could, i miss home. seems like you been part of the chicago revival. i got some tricks tho, i'll be back for a visit around jan next year.



zelda does well against IC's. but obviously a crap 2dary zelda isn't going to cut it against a solid IC's main. you're going to have to build up them exp points

 

[Kaffei]

o k ty

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its not gonna be another 1 week stay is it?

 

[Devil Ray]

i'm really going to fight for more time off this time. i'll definitely let you guys know tho. last year was a joke. snowpocalypse happened and i was indoors most of that short week too LULz.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

So is korea your perm residence now? When you first left, i thought it was only supposed to be 1 year

 

[Devil Ray]

yea, haven't really decided. it's pretty steady work out here, and it's a lot of fun out here. honestly, until the economy kicks back in the states i'll probably be out in Korea

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ok well if I ever decide to take SC2 as serious as I took melee, i'll definitely see you in korea :D

 

[john!]

it's the mother****ing CHUN

quit chunning around and get back to america for a while

 

[iamthemicrowave]

chun chun chun chun chun

 

[Devil Ray]

haha, sup fellas. hope all is good.

 

[omgwtfToph]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6605390/best-of-dorkly-sheik-crashes-a-bachelor-party

 

[Kaffei]

i hate falco omg
idk WTF to do

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW DAIR SHINE DAIR SHINE UTILT PEW PEW EPEWPWEPWEPWP BAIR DIE

 

[KirbyKaze]

Bunch of sets of me coming from The Big House.

I think me vs Tink, Rat, Trail, Unknown522, Weon-x, Lovage, and S2J were all recorded. I don't think they're very good sets on the whole, but I do some cool combos and cop-out against Trail with Peach in the third game so they may have some comedic or entertainment value.

 

[Teczer0]

Bunch of sets of me coming from The Big House.

I think me vs Tink, Rat, Trail, Unknown522, Weon-x, Lovage, and S2J were all recorded. I don't think they're very good sets on the whole, but I do some cool combos and cop-out against Trail with Peach in the third game so they may have some comedic or entertainment value.

LOL

What a great idea

 

[KirbyKaze]

Here's me getting my shield broken in tournament to entertain you in the meantime.