Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Xisin]

anyone seen this tweet? pretty hype.

https://twitter.com/LTNintendo/status/588938332891176960

 

[Emblem Lord]

I am the opposite of hype actually.

I do not believe he deserves to get into this game. Hate me if you want too. I will use him when he gets in, but I feel there are FAR more deserving FE reps.

 

[Xisin]

I hear you tbh.

I'm just hoping since he was balls in melee the may make a sword user good in this one. Who knows though.

I actually want Sothe of all things... Not ever going to happen though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That's the other thing. Smash 4 has NOT been kind to FE. So imo he will probably suck AND be another clone.

So what the ****?

I feel Sakurai is putting him in for one reason. It's easy. Re-skin Marth. Make him shorter. Re-use melee voice clips. Mess with his physics a bit and switch the sweetspot around and voila.

"New" character.

Nintendo is ****ing shameless I swear.

 

[Quickhero]

@ Emblem Lord Honestly I swear if they bring Lucas back and don't bring him any custom moves I will seriously be pissed.

I know Lucas and Ness are different characters, but if Ness can just change his custom moves to meet Lucas then I don't want a character that is almost exactly the same and have to pay 5 bucks for it. :\

I don't want any more Fire Emblem characters tbh, I just can't see what not boring approach they can use to make the character not feel extremely linear. MAYBE Hector since he has an axe and could possibly go somewhere different with the heavy archetype, but let's face it Hector would never get in and I would rather have someone more qualified (Snake) get in.

Though I CAN say that back when Sheik wasn't confirmed in Smash and I thought Sheik would be replaced that I was thinking of Sothe being a clone of Sheik or something. Idk why but the thought was always there.

 

[Reizilla]

@ Emblem Lord Hector would never get in and I would rather have someone more qualified (Snake) get in.

No one is more qualified than Hector.

For any job.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hector is a ****ing bro.

One of the most beloved Lords and gives everything for his friends. I mean all the Lords have similar archetypes but Hector was THE bro in Rekka no Ken.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah I'm really not feeling Roy coming back as it were.
If it's just a reskin of Marth, ala Alph, I'll be fine with it, that's actually really cool. I'd be completely down for that being a thing for everyone and everything and happily pay the $2-3 for it.

But if he's actually coming back as a proper slot, where we're going to have the anti-marth and the newbtier-marth in the same game, it's just like, what the flying ****.

 

[Phoenon]

Honestly Owain would be pretty hype to get in Smash.

 

[Locuan]

Hector is the only correct answer.

 

[Quickhero]

@ Phoenon Inigo is the best child by far in FE: Awakening. Honestly I didn't think Owain was bleh. Lucina in her original game is pretty cool (in this game she sounds way too arrogant) but doesn't compare to Inigo by a long shot.

 

[kj22]

We need Severa <3

 

[Locuan]

Too many characters to choose from. I'd be happy with another weapon type, axes, spears anyone?

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

That's the other thing. Smash 4 has NOT been kind to FE. So imo he will probably suck AND be another clone.

Thinking about it I don't think they have been kind to any sword users in Smash 4 besides Toon Link and Shulk. It is probably because I have only played Sacred Stones, but IMO I would be pretty happy if Ephriam got in Smash 4. It would be nice to see a lance user in Smash, but I would imagine him being a little TOO good since he would have not only insane range but also most likely be have above average speed and good frame data.

 

[Phoenon]

Too many characters to choose from. I'd be happy with another weapon type, axes, spears anyone?

What about Ephraim, give us a stylish spear user

 

[Quickhero]

We need Severa <3

Are you daft!

@ Phoenon Tbh, I can't really imagine what Ephraim's aerials would be and how they would function. Would they be like Marth's? Would they have like an effect where it has a hitbox at the back? It seems interesting, but I have no idea what any of his aerials would be like because I don't even think Ephraim has jumped in his games LOL.

 

[Zorai]

I don't understand why they are bringing Roy when Marth is far from fully viable still..

 

[Quickhero]

@ Zorai I have no clue what you mean by "fully viable." I think you mean has his full potential.

Honestly, I kind of hope that the f-throw and d-throw are placebo effect things, because it would mean that not only did we get a significant DB buff, but that there is so much left to Marth that we haven't discovered. I think it's time to get our hopes up because more stuff is about to be discovered. :3

 

[Zano]

hey guys did you hear about Roy????

 

[Reizilla]

The correct answer is Morgan. He can use swords and magic, plus she is shorter than Robin which makes him unique and fully worthy of her own character slot.

 

[Zorai]

@ Zorai I have no clue what you mean by "fully viable." I think you mean has his full potential.

Honestly, I kind of hope that the f-throw and d-throw are placebo effect things, because it would mean that not only did we get a significant DB buff, but that there is so much left to Marth that we haven't discovered. I think it's time to get our hopes up because more stuff is about to be discovered. :3

Throw combos don't necessarily make a character good. Yes, Marth barely has anything of the such, but this is not the reason he is not considered a tourney viable character by many.

The real reason is an abundance of weaknesses that I really don't feel like listing. But I still genuinely believe that, played perfectly, he is a threat.

 

[Locuan]

The correct answer is Morgan. He can use swords and magic, plus she is shortan than Robin which makes him unique and fully worthy of her own character slot.

Guys if you notice Reizilla's post uses both he and she when referring to Morgan. In other words, this confirms we will have the ability to play as either Male or Female Morgan.

 

[Zano]

oh **** zorai found this thread, time to really afk for a month again.

 

[Shaya]

Oh.. you know this guy?

 

[Camalange]

oh **** zorai found this thread, time to really afk for a month again.

I have no reason or proper context for being here, but your signature though.

 

[Zorai]

Oh.. you know this guy?

lol

 

[Emblem Lord]

@ Zorai I have no clue what you mean by "fully viable." I think you mean has his full potential.

Honestly, I kind of hope that the f-throw and d-throw are placebo effect things, because it would mean that not only did we get a significant DB buff, but that there is so much left to Marth that we haven't discovered. I think it's time to get our hopes up because more stuff is about to be discovered. :3

potential doesnt mean anything when you lose to top tiers.

Metagame...it's a thing

 

[Illuminado]

I actually wanted to submit a fire emblem character request to Nintendo for someone that doesn't use a sword. I know they're going for a triumvirate in smash 4 with sword, fist and gun but still. I think they missed a trick considering the plethora of weapons in Fire emblem. Spears and axes would be great. Means you don't have to struggle to create yet another sword based move set. If they put Roy in, he should be completely remade fro m the ground up. No clones.

 

[cerealkiller]

Curiously, even in my country DBZ is a lot of fun dubbed because of how they did it. But that's an exception.

 

[Quickhero]

potential doesnt mean anything when you lose to top tiers.

Metagame...it's a thing

This post I don't view as being realistic, but rather giving up hope. I can potentially see the match-ups we have problems with (ZSS and Sheik in particular) become easier with time, with all the stuff we discovered while we were searching for buffs and only got (admittedly significant) buff, we have the tools we need to potentially not need a secondary to win as more secondaries are made. If more people started playing Marth with the mindset that he has potential, we can likely transition that to how to abuse scenarios to pull off these combos more frequently and turn these match ups to only "a huge annoyance, but it's decently manageable."

Even if you don't think it can go to this level, we still very will have the ability to make these problematic match-ups easier over time.

Curiously, even in my country DBZ is a lot of fun dubbed because of how they did it. But that's an exception.

You seriously need to see FMA:B's dub. It's also an exception.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This post I don't view as being realistic, but rather giving up hope. I can potentially see the match-ups we have problems with (ZSS and Sheik in particular) become easier with time, with all the stuff we discovered while we were searching for buffs and only got (admittedly significant) buff, we have the tools we need to potentially not need a secondary to win as more secondaries are made. If more people started playing Marth with the mindset that he has potential, we can likely transition that to how to abuse scenarios to pull off these combos more frequently and turn these match ups to only "a huge annoyance, but it's decently manageable."

Even if you don't think it can go to this level, we still very will have the ability to make these problematic match-ups easier over time.

You seriously need to see FMA:B's dub. It's also an exception.

Im going to be 100% with you. We grind harder then most char forums, except the Sheik forums.

They grind harder AND their character has the moveset to allow them to be creative. Thats the main thing. Having a variety of versatile tools that let you do things. Most of Marth's stuff just don't have that level of utility. I'm being objective. Not giving up hope. I'm looking at the reality of his hitboxes, his frame data, and just how his moves work.

 

[Zorai]

Im going to be 100% with you. We grind harder then most char forums, except the Sheik forums.

They grind harder AND their character has the moveset to allow them to be creative. Thats the main thing. Having a variety of versatile tools that let you do things. Most of Marth's stuff just don't have that level of utility. I'm being objective. Not giving up hope. I'm looking at the reality of his hitboxes, his frame data, and just how his moves work.

Marth has no utility outside of like shieldbreaker mixups... CS and dashing assault if customs are on.

But Marth is 100% neutral game and zoning based. Characters that currently beat him in the neutral (ZSS, Sheik) beat everyone else in the neutral because frankly Marth has a very high tier neutral but no one recognizes this yet because the current meta revolves around who can get the most grabs and strings. In other words people aren't good yet.

Marth has a lack of safe offensive options just like a lot of characters. What he does have is the fastest walk speed in the game and good normals to go with it.

In Brawl it was clear from the start that certain characters just could not compete. In this game it seems clear that even a character with no substantial utility can pull ahead through sheer fundamentals.

Over time as the neutral game becomes key, people will begin to realize why Marth is a good character.

 

[Emblem Lord]

His neutral isn't scary enough nor does it let him take control. He can out button virtually anyone. That's not his problem. His actual neutral is not his issue. His issue is when he cannot exert his will or the risk of attempting to do so does not justify reward. CS mitigates this somewhat turns match-ups slightly towards him, thus evening them out. But losing hard vs top tiers is a no-no competitively.

Marth CAN win tournaments. I never said he can't.

I said he isn't good. This is true and not refutable when you look at his match-ups. There are too many chars with better tools.

He is average. Slightly above average with customs.

 

[Zorai]

His neutral isn't scary in the sense that he has some crazy zonebreaker (ZSS) or fairly safe poke (Sheik), but it's scary in the sense that he has an answer for both of those things in theory. So Marth ends up having to work harder and be substantially smarter in order to beat these characters. In other words he has to play a reactionary game. That is Marth's playstyle. That is what should be going through your mind when you select Marth at the character select screen.

In the end, this is a game with 50 characters. If you can't use at least 3 or 4, you are not a competitive player.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

The correct answer is Morgan. He can use swords and magic, plus she is shorter than Robin which makes him unique and fully worthy of her own character slot.

So she would be like the equivilant of what Lucina is to Marth?

I don't understand why they are bringing Roy when Marth is far from fully viable still..

Well I don't think how good or bad Marth is would really effect him. If they bring him back AT LEAST give him autocanceling aerials so that his play style could actually somewhat work for him. It really sucks that even though Marth is viable he is not really viable enough.

 

[Shaya]

The feels where you're taking entire stocks with just reading people's landings after dancing blade combos with more dancing blade.
How do people land against this move? I ****ing love it being consistent again. Positive thoughts are oozing out of every orifice while I play him.

Now fair into aerial db or aerial db into the combo or fair is making sooooo much sense.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Took 5th a local today. Lost to mii brawler and ness. Mii brawler is just insane but vs Ness I played well just small mistakes and got stage spiked but thats my fault.

Took two sonics out of tourney today.

I am most pleased.

 

[kj22]

Twitch.tv/Morphiziz Houston weekly
I'm in GF

 

[Shaya]

I clicked that not long after your post and it was only 12 viewers and half way in between the loser's finals it suddenly jumped to like 300? lol.

 

[Shaya]

Twitch.tv/Morphiziz Houston weekly
I'm in GF

his issues with marth were gnes having the roll in technology all over him
[1:59:44 PM] JPJ Shaya: and kj never knowing what he could punish
[1:59:46 PM] JPJ Shaya: so he'd get spot dodged a lot
[2:00:41 PM] Locuan: I see
[2:01:09 PM] JPJ Shaya: also I think I need to tell him about ledge drop air dodge
[2:01:11 PM] JPJ Shaya: to get back on stage
[2:01:22 PM] JPJ Shaya: because he doesn't have any ledge mix ups
[2:01:48 PM] Locuan: So he was always stuck on one or two options?
[2:02:06 PM] JPJ Shaya: yeah
[2:02:13 PM] JPJ Shaya: ledge get up into getting ftilt, grabbed or up smashed
[2:02:26 PM] JPJ Shaya: 9/10 times
[2:02:40 PM] Locuan: Then both he and I suffer from the same problems
[2:03:09 PM] JPJ Shaya: shulk can kinda cover the roll in
[2:03:09 PM] Locuan: anyways, he will probably post the videos once they are up on the video thread so I can watch
[2:03:12 PM] JPJ Shaya: with ftilt
[2:03:14 PM] JPJ Shaya: and get ups with it too
[2:03:37 PM] JPJ Shaya: ledge jump and ledge drop air dodge are "SOMETHING"
[2:03:49 PM] JPJ Shaya: heck in situations like that where the opponent is spacing that far from the ledge
[2:03:59 PM] JPJ Shaya: you're actually free to ledge drop
[2:04:20 PM] JPJ Shaya: and re grab
[2:04:53 PM] Locuan: I can see how it would work
[2:05:15 PM] Locuan: So I'm guessing the Shulk was always covering the roll option
[2:05:24 PM] Locuan: what I mean by that is, that specific distance
[2:05:29 PM] Locuan: considering what you are saying
[2:06:11 PM] JPJ Shaya: walk slightly forward ftilt or just ftilting
[2:06:17 PM] JPJ Shaya: covering both get up and roll in mostly
[2:06:31 PM] JPJ Shaya: but because of that position, they have no way to hit you on the ledge