Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[Emblem Lord]

Marth vs Shulk GF?

How do you guys feel about that match?

Shulk wins the spacing war, but Marth is way better at carrying momentum imo. Also his buttons are better head on. Shulk swings slow.

 

[kj22]

I clicked that not long after your post and it was only 12 viewers and half way in between the loser's finals it suddenly jumped to like 300? lol.

Apparently a glitch.

Yeah he pressured me a lot with ledge traps, had no clue how to get back on safely. I can seriously die from whatever option I chose: upsmash covering normal getup/attack/jump, tilt covering the same minus jump but plus any ledge hop aerial shenanigans, and fsmash for roll reads. He got a loooot of mileage off trapping me one the ledge (marth of the old days anyone?)

I know I played pretty sloppy (blaming not having the game) and could've been more patient getting the kill, still very close games in both sets regardless. I'll post them when they're uploaded but I really felt like my marth was really sloppy and not fluid (too much melee marth ;p)

EDIT: apparently not a glitch, somebody hosted the stream for a bit (:

 

[Zorai]

Anyone got tips vs Megaman? Probably playing the best one in nyc later today.

I'm glad Shaya finally understands side b is buffed lmao

 

[Quickhero]

Could someone help me out with this huge problem I've been happening whenever I fight someone who I know is very good? I always try to play against really good players like these, but every time I do I become so scared and I get wrecked way harder than I should so I feel like I can't really get anything out of it. I'm stuck in this zone where I'm able to understand this game and am better than most common players but I can't reach to tournament level. :\

I will still lose to these pro players when I'm not scared since they are obviously much better, but if I can get off this massive stress perhaps I can play to my best so when I DO lose I'll be able to learn and get much better.

 

[kj22]

Anyone got tips vs Megaman? Probably playing the best one in nyc later today.

I'm glad Shaya finally understands side b is buffed lmao

Buffed as in?

 

[Locuan]

(blaming not having the game)

You should come to Austin >_<

Buffed as in?

Something's different but until we have the data we wont know exactly what. However, it seems we can combo every hit in the Dancing Blade now without risking the opponent falling off.

 

[kj22]

You should come to Austin >_<

Something's different but until we have the data we wont know exactly what. However, it seems we can combo every hit in the Dancing Blade now without risking the opponent falling off.

When/Where ;o

Ummm I disagree, people were falling out of my dancing blades at any percent still.

 

[Locuan]

When/Where ;o

Whenever! I'm always up to play. Just let me know if you are in the area.

Ummm I disagree, people were falling out of my dancing blades at any percent still.

@ Shaya can explain way better than what I can.

 

[Nowayitsj]

locuan can I come visit too?

 

[Locuan]

locuan can I come visit too?

Are you from the area? We have a bunch of weeklies and tournaments here. Also, last weekend we had a Smashfest. Like every week there's something going on related to Smash in Austin.

 

[Reizilla]

Anything on May 1st or 2nd?

 

[Locuan]

Anything on May 1st or 2nd?

In Austin? I can check. There's a big tournament in May but I'm unsure if that's the date for it.

 

[Phoenon]

Marth/Lucina vs. Rosalina matchup is pure suffering.

Luma leading the anal ravage rampage that demands respect with next to no room for taking any risks. Anyone have any advice whatsoever for this matchup, just feels completely outmatched sometimes and most hits I do get in get bodied by Luma interruptions, including grab attempts.

Current Status:

 

[Zorai]

I've beat Rosa in tourney, but it's still quite an annoying matchup because unlike other characters, her main zonebreaker (dash attack) actually has a VERTICAL hitbox too, so you can't even try to jump. I keep forgetting about it and it's really bad if it hits you because it sets up juggles for her.

 

[Locuan]

Customs or without customs? The match-up actually changes a bit depending on this. With customs, I believe Marth has a slight advantage. Otherwise, I see it as even.

 

[Zorai]

Rosa is a contender for the best character in the game right now (alongside sheik) so meh

But yeah dashing assault singlehandedly rips Rosa a new one so that's one thing. Customs off makes it a matchup with a high learning curve... I don't care much about what works against mid level Rosa's. I'm trying to see the neutral game from a top level Rosa's perspective.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Back when we were discussing the Rosaluma MU I was pretty much the only one who thought it was far from an even MU. Has the MU changed or do you guys just change your thoughts on it? Back when everyone said it was even they seemed to just ignore the fact that the Luma IS DEFINITELY one of the biggest things that keeps it from being anywhere close to a 50-50 MU. Maybe I am just the ignorant one or I just suck at the MU, but I never have as much trouble fighting her than when I am using Marth.

 

[Shaya]

Marth is very good at hitting Luma safely.
If you throw out a dtilt or even ftilt on a luma well spaced (retreating aerials too), Rosalina doesn't actually have an easy punish because hit lag procs increase hitbox sizes.

Play Marth in Brawl against ICs, he's the only character in that game that could actually afford to hit only one of the two climbers in neutral because of stuff like this.

Dashing Assault just makes it easy, any movement Rosalina makes at all that whiffs can be reacted to with byebye Luma with maybe a dash attack punish at best.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's even without customs. With customs he probably wins.

 

[Quickhero]

@ Locuan Congrats on having Red blue and green stripes on your post. Please tell me there is a flag there with those colors.

 

[kj22]

Customs or without customs? The match-up actually changes a bit depending on this. With customs, I believe Marth has a slight advantage. Otherwise, I see it as even.

Wait wait wait. Locuan you've been around since '05?! Holy moley. Did you always go by the same tag?

 

[Locuan]

Wait wait wait. Locuan you've been around since '05?! Holy moley. Did you always go by the same tag?

Almost the same, locuan128 was my original tag. I changed it like 2 months ago or so.

 

[Zorai]

@ Shaya so would you say Marth has to be actively trying to take out Luma (due to this advantage) instead of playing his usual reactive playstyle?

Also, I haven't been paying attention but does DA take out Luma even if Rosa is shielding?

In other news, tilt stick is pretty ass [for Marth]. It's just way too easy to accidentally nair with that ****. Even offline.

 

[Shaya]

Just play normally, except you're spacing against Luma, not Rosalina. Luma is the hitboxes you're spacing around.

 

[Langston777]

can one of you explain this to me
http://webmshare.com/J9z17
9% DB

 

[Emblem Lord]

I would say staling but, that no longer effects damage according to what we know about the game thus far. I know damage is not consistent in this game for each move. Attacks have decimals and I think there are certain chances of doing a certain amount of damage. For example Lucina has alot of moves that are 7.4 and 15.5, etc.

 

[Langston777]

but that combo does 16-20% in training

why have i never even noticed this before

 

[Emblem Lord]

Could just be a glitch or an oversight in the games code. This is pretty common actually.

 

[Langston777]

well if dancing blade is supposed to be getting double what it's actually getting i'd like to see it get fixed lmao

nah **** it ima go diddy

 

[Quickhero]

well if dancing blade is supposed to be getting double what it's actually getting i'd like to see it get fixed lmao

nah **** it ima go diddy

Do you even tippers, bro? I think that's the problem lol.

 

[Langston777]

try it yourself fool

i can keep track of DB's tippers fine

 

[Quickhero]

try it yourself fool

i can keep track of DB's tippers fine

Just note you only landed 1 tipp(er)ed hit during that DB.

It could be a bug, but it really doesn't happen to me, at least I don't think, when I start the hit with the tip. It generally does around 15% to me.

 

[Shaya]

I can't view that video for some reason :<

But staling is a big part of Dancing Blade, and I wasn't under the impression staling values changed between now and Brawl. they just seem a lot less prevalent now because there's no longer momentum cancelling which scaled severely with that in mind (kinda like the same type of 'skew' rage adds in this game but the opposite).

Each strike of dancing blade is considered in the stale queue.
So when each strike is doing like 4% in training mode, in the game it's going to be 4%, 3.x%, 3.x% yada yada.
A staled dancing blade in Brawl did not do more than 7-8%

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hmm, I did not notice stale moves doing less damage in this game. Guess I wasnt paying attention.

 

[Langston777]

does training mode not stale moves then? because any full DB combo does consistently 16-24% in training, depending on tippers and combos. i don't think i've ever gotten anything less than that out of it

the 2nd strike in my webm did 1%. in training mode, it does 3.5. going back to regular matches, it starts off with like 14% untipped, but even that did 16% in training. it's like every individual hit of the combo is staling it. lame. move seems to do less than a tippered back air at best.

i guess i just never noticed this before, i am pretty new to smash. wish i could get consistently 16% punishes. man that'd be sweet.

do whiffs also stale?

 

[Emblem Lord]

You stale on hit and block that's it.

Training mode = no stale and no rage.

 

[Shaya]

You don't stale on block.
Yes training mode does not have staleness or rage.

 

[Emblem Lord]

oh not on block? ****in lame

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Marth vs Shulk GF?

How do you guys feel about that match?

Shulk wins the spacing war, but Marth is way better at carrying momentum imo. Also his buttons are better head on. Shulk swings slow.

Shulk also wins the war when it comes to fighting close up. Marth's only chance is to fight mid distance and even then I feel like he loses... Shulk's up tilt beats anything marth has to offer in the air. Also Shulk controls the pace of the match too much with speed and jump monado arts.

 

[Zorai]

If he swings his sword first he loses, his dash grab in speed mode is super annoying, try not to challenge him in jump mode, it's usually bait.

He generally can't punish well spaced aerials unless he's in speed mode so just keep him in speed mode with full hop fair. Avoid using counter since the first hit of his smash attacks do like no knockback. Shulk has a blind spot behind him, abuse that with well timed roll-ins.