Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[BlackPanther]

mindgames in brawl? for the most part it seems like you're forced to play obvious guerilla style

Lol well I was tryin to explain to people who have no understanding of what Brawl tourneys look like that, that mindgames will be mindgames, they don't alter with the game if you're watching which way someone rolls and you catch them that's pretty much the same thing in Melee except not bein able to do a few things because of stuff bein taken out.

 

[Wiseguy]

mindgames in brawl? for the most part it seems like you're forced to play obvious guerilla style

 

[BlackPanther]

Sure I agree with you. Melee caters to the competitive community more than Brawl. Although, if and when I become competitive it will be with Brawl not Melee. Why does everyone have to agree that Melee is more competitive before the two games can coexist? Can't we just move on now?

It's not just about moving on. A lot of us feel like the worse of the two games is gonna replace a game that is essentially better in our eyes. People are totally tryin to shut down Melee just because the new toy is out as people like to put it and that's just not right. I think at this point it's safe to assume that Brawl is topped out right now, anything interesting about the game has been discovered and the new physics of the game forbids any further development of the technical aspect of the game everything that's out right now is useless except maybe the dlx cancel and that's about it. If people can see this as a newer game that's cool but I just see it as a slower Melee and why would I play the slower and less fun game? My only regret not playin Brawl would be not bein able to play with Lucario and that's not that big of a loss to me. =/

 

[RDK]

Lol, 10DONKEYKONGS.

 

[pockyD]

I think at this point it's safe to assume that Brawl is topped out right now, anything interesting about the game has been discovered and the new physics of the game forbids any further development of the technical aspect of the game

wow, it's not safe to say that at all

 

[RDK]

wow, it's not safe to say that at all

It's definetely not safe tosay that, but it is safe to say Brawl will never reach Melee in terms of technical depth and competitive environment.

 

[pockyD]

while that's LIKELY, i still wouldn't agree that it's "safe to say"

this is just a stupid semantic argument so whatever

I have found that I'm enjoying brawl more and more though (probably up until the moment i have to fight ROB or pit on jungle japes in tournament, then i'll probably just quit altogether)

 

[Dime]

It's not just about moving on. A lot of us feel like the worse of the two games is gonna replace a game that is essentially better in our eyes. People are totally tryin to shut down Melee just because the new toy is out as people like to put it and that's just not right.

Unfortunately for Melee fans, I see no way of preventing this. Brawl has replaced Melee on store shelves. While it will never completely replace Melee here, it will be played by many more people. More Brawl tournaments will be held. I just don’t see Melee remaining the competitive standard now that brawl is out. Yes, Melee is more competitive than Brawl but that won’t stop Brawl from being played by a majority of smashers.

So where do we go from here?

 

[pockyD]

side note: melee is $40 used at gamestop in california LOL

 

[Dime]

side note: melee is $40 used at gamestop in california LOL

Ok, I think you know what I meant though.

But, dang!! That’s expensive for a used game and after 6 years and its successor only 10 bucks more!!!

 

[GTR!]

I, for one, would like to see Melee coexist alongside Brawl. Two games for two demographics. I still play both games.

Not to mention if we can keep the Melee scene alive whoever steps up to direct SSB4 if it ever comes into existence will realize "hey, my predecessor did something that ticked off a large portion of his target demographic, I better fix that."

i like this post alot

it should be stated more often

 

[Brookman]

waiting for someone to roll =/= mind game.

 

[BlackPanther]

Ok, I think you know what I meant though.

But, dang!! That’s expensive for a used game and after 6 years and its successor only 10 bucks more!!!

The game is that **** good lol. Brawl may be a successor to you but it's just merely a sequel to me. Call me closed minded but I will continue to feel that this game is topped out and that won't change unless someone finds somethin game breaking which noone has found **** yet and I don't think noone will. People will only get better by playing smarter that's it the game won't get any faster or more technical than what it is now in my eyes.

 

[Dime]

The game is that **** good lol. Brawl may be a successor to you but it's just merely a sequel to me. Call me closed minded but I will continue to feel that this game is topped out and that won't change unless someone finds somethin game breaking which noone has found **** yet and I don't think noone will. People will only get better by playing smarter that's it the game won't get any faster or more technical than what it is now in my eyes.

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. I just meant successor as "the next in the series" or “the one that follows”. I did not mean to pass judgment on which game is better. That is of course subjective.

 

[BlackPanther]

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. I just meant successor as "the next in the series" or “the one that follows”. I did not mean to pass judgment on which game is better. That is of course subjective.

Oh, gotcha lol.

 

[Fletch]

*PIC*

Too good.

 

[thetownlybomb]

 

[Jack Kieser]

For the record, the rest of that comic is UNBE-****ING-LIEVABLE!

 

[thumbswayup]

Where the hell is that from

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Guys i get what you mean brawls been out for a short time. but with all the time put into creating stuff in brawl there hasnt been to much success. And melee techs arent fully done. The question you should ask your self is how far can brawl really go? Answer: Far as ****! lol joking. It can go some distance but maybe not as far as most people think. Its not what knowledge we have to create techs. its what the creators gave us. and they gave us limited amount because brawl isnt suppost to be competivite but somehow we have made progress on making this a good tournaments game. I just wanna see whats up with brawl in 1 year.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Where the hell is that from

It's from the hands of God himself... and the 'We Love Brawl' thread.

 

[RomeDogg]

Yeah I read the begining of the topic and skimmed through some of the early pages. I know I have noob status but i am going to state an opinion anyway. I bought SSBM not long after it came out and I loved it. Me and my friends played like noobs, we would use up-b to attack ppl above us, one friend told me the only reason i won was because bowser was the best character in the game because he killed everyone so easily and his up-b was the best in the game because he could make it from anywhere so yeah we didn't know ****

 

[krlos F.]

It's definetely not safe tosay that, but it is safe to say Brawl will never reach Melee in terms of technical depth and competitive environment.

I support u completely!

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yeah I read the begining of the topic and skimmed through some of the early pages. I know I have noob status but i am going to state an opinion anyway. I bought SSBM not long after it came out and I loved it. Me and my friends played like noobs, we would use up-b to attack ppl above us, one friend told me the only reason i won was because bowser was the best character in the game because he killed everyone so easily and his up-b was the best in the game because he could make it from anywhere so yeah we didn't know ****

You never actually said anything here that states an opinion >_>

 

[RomeDogg]

Yeah Sorry I hit tab and it posted my reply before i was even close to finishing......as i was saying....Well after beating most of the game "unlocking all Characters, stages, and trophies" I quit playing because i would get new games to play after beating those games I would play SSBM because i would get bored of those games. It would always be fun to play. So it was my game to play when all of my other games got old. It never got old. After i started playing link all the time i used to think i was good by doing my double forward smash and then doing up-b alot of the time it randomly hit them, then i would throw a boomerang straight ahead if i wasnt close enough to do that other sh*t.

I quit playing my gamecube for awhile until like last year or so. I started getting into smash again playing all the characters even amounts, i realized more and more i learned more and more, i was a loser and found sites like this to learn even more. I stuck to just link and eventually used bowser as my secondary character and G&W as a third.. Eventually i could bomb jump, wavedash, l-cancel, etc. I also realized stun time was important and could help me combo. I noticed that little but faster attacks could lead to other bigger attacks, i started learning how to connect all my attacks to keep my attacks going. I learned that links chain shot/air dodge/up-b could save me from several spikes. I noticed that most attacks were useful for link. I only used the arrows to stop samus from bomb jumping or preventing samus balls even though bombs did the trick. Anyway my point is eventually my and my friends were always guessing what the other was going to do and we ev
entually could combo eachother across the screen to death. We never went to tournaments though but we used all the advanced techniques amd had tournaments against other friends just to own them and we owned anybody we knew with the came, we were always looking for a challenge in town. No one we ever played could take a stock from us except eachother. Not saying we are amazing we still suck compared to the worst pros and ppl trying to become pro and generally alot of ppl but we knew what we were doing we understood how competitive the game was.

I always had to work hard as hell to beat my friends marth with my link but 50% of the time i did, and it took a miracle for my bowser to beat his marth. Well anyway we loved the game.

Brawl makes me sad. When i get bored of brawl because there is nothing to learn i go play all the games i already beat out of boredom. I miss being able to combo my freinds marth across the screen, i miss being able to mix up my recovery to prevent punishment, i miss being able to edgeguard better since the edge grab is so g*y now. I miss how much harder it was to spike, or to have a perfect recovery. I miss using skill, i miss watching my link get comboed to death as i am DIing away and pressing A hoping my nair will deliver a break in marths combo. Now its basically like playing tag because the lack of stun.

Other than the addition of new characters and stage builder I hate most everything else even brawls Final Destination has went to h*ll. Oh yeah and I also dislike how in the matter of like 10 minutes you can pretty much rock at any character in Brawl except for like ganon and maybe Samus.

I was never a big fan of wave dashing but i did it now and then. Now i miss it because in order to take it out they changed the mechanics of brawl to a point where it just sux because the new airdodge limits options too. But the bottom line is that Brawl is a game of Tag whoever gets tagged it last with a K.O move loses. Oh yeah and now unskilled ppl get lucky often because i cant do long combos on them.

 

[RomeDogg]

Yeah and sorry for a life story of smash that probably made little sence but i was trying to make a point lol.

 

[Scar]

hahahaha RomeDogg I really enjoyed reading that. I miss Melee too. Except I play it all the time, but you know what I mean...

 

[Pink Reaper]

He brought up a good point though. There are alot of changes that people who never really played melee competitively will have never noticed. Take for example how he stated that alot of the game was Weak hit->Strong hit. That doesn't really exist anymore in Brawl. In Melee Kirby's Utilt was low knock back/low lag meaning it was something that could easily combo. In Brawl, its no longer alow knock back attack but its also not a powerful move. It doesn't combo, its weak, its useless, save perhaps at very low damages(0-15% area T.T) There's also the loss of a jab game. You cant Thunder anymore and you cant even Jab->tilt with alot of characters because just hitting with a jab forces an infinite jab. Jabs were HUGE in Melee and alot of people may have never even realized that, but now they're basically useless ;_;

 

[pockyD]

don't tell me ike's jab is useless

 

[Pink Reaper]

I know there are still very useful jab combos, but there are alot of characters who cant really use their Jabs effectively. And Ike doesn't count, his everything kills

 

[KosukeKGA]

Ike is a pretty cool guy. He fights for his friends. This is why he has the best Neutral A combo in the game.

 

[Pink Reaper]

i think Ike is a pretty cool guy. eh fights for his friends and doesnt afraid of anything.

Fix'd

Spoiler

10jabs

 

[Corigames]

Poetic, I like it.

The strength of men will burn the fires of competition at no discretion of sport or desire. This flame will burn a hole straight to the heart of man and expose it for its true nature. If you want to know what competition is, look no further than yourself! Within all of us lies a lake of eternal energy amounting to the essence of the fight, struggle, and ferocity of the beating life source that strengthens all those who dare to challenge what stands in there way.

Those who can handle themselves, those who know of their own power, those who burn like fire and fight like men are those who blaze the trail of competition.

There is your answer Scar.

Seriously...

I had only one response for this thread ending post?

Shame, smashboards, shame.

 

[BlackPanther]

*Wall of text*

Wow and this is coming from a newbie, good post. Why can't all newbies have this much understanding about a game lol? This guy is cool.

Edit: Lol sorry coreygames, it was too philosophical for me to reply to at the time. I just wanted to sit down and actually understand it and even after that I was just gonna leave it at that with no response but it was a nice post though xD.

 

[Egret]

Hey RomeDogg, do you live in Rome as your name suggests? I would guess you don't, but you sound like a cool guy and it'd be great to play melee sometime if you did.

 

[LOL_Master]

hannah montana is useless

 

[thumbswayup]

Tripping is useless. Kill all who oppose this.

 

[RomeDogg]

Hey RomeDogg, do you live in Rome as your name suggests? I would guess you don't, but you sound like a cool guy and it'd be great to play melee sometime if you did.

I live in Redfield, South Dakota actually, sorry. Oh and just because I live in a Redneck state doesnt mean I am one or want to be one lol.

 

[icethatclimbs]

pretty much brawl sucks and everyone should continue playing the best fighting game everr!!!

 

[Dime]

pretty much brawl sucks and everyone should continue playing the best fighting game everr!!!

You mean Bible Fight right?

Jesus for god Tier!!