A lot has happened since my last post a week ago. Who would have thought? Well time to catch up.
Good read, I'm really glad I checked again before I went to bed.
Give yourself more credit. You'd be surprised how many people have silently seen your efforts for Roy and were inspired by that to keep going. Maybe it was their breaking point and they would have just went into seclusion otherwise. Maybe that led them to reach out to other people to support Roy, reaching out to more people once they got past that silence. I might be one of them, who knows? Spreading the word to even one person at the right time could mean 1,000 supporters, even if you never know about it happening.
There's likely to be at least a few here. In the Facebook group. On other sites.
After all, we're fighting the detractors the same way, so is it really alien?
Even if you didn't live up to your original expectations, don't think of it as failure.
Your passion might not be as strong now, but look at your post. That speech in itself is a feat and a lot of passion. I can only imagine what it was capable of before.
That's even more negative and wrong than what Roy detractors say, and that's saying something.
Reading through posts a few years back, do you really have the right to say that? I don't believe @
Croph
or a decent amount of the members from back then or even now would be as motivated or even continuing their place in this thread without you. If your passion now isn't as strong as it was before, and you still managed to give a rousing speech that I bookmarked from just a few paragraphs in, do you think I'd believe your passion years ago was capable of nothing in the grand scheme of things? There is so much data, so many ideas, and so much support from you that's been built into the original thread that stands today. I've relied on this data to talk people previously against Roy into becoming regular members on this thread and a Facebook group. A decent amount of those supporters have done the same across sites. It spreads.
You talk fondly of our strength now, but you gave us resources that allowed us to build ourselves up to that point.
Without it, I wouldn't have made a website due to The Royvolution's leader sending me some of the statistics straight from this thread. Without that website, Croph would have never contacted me personally. Without being contacted personally, I wouldn't have seen this thread, I wouldn't have a website that's attracted a lot of attention to persuade nonbelievers, I wouldn't have directed so many people to this thread, and The Royvolution group on Facebook wouldn't be nearly as strong since the site made it what it is. I probably wouldn't even give vocal support to Roy now, and I might think nothing more than just playing as him with buddies, just from thinking about what I used your research for. Seriously, give yourself more credit in the grand scheme of things.
Even if you can't do as much now, that's understandable. We all lose passion for things, and while I've done a lot for Roy in the last few days, I'm honestly a bit lazy on the website at the moment. It's all up to the modern supporters right now, yes, each of us individually has to push as much as we can, but that doesn't mean you won't fit in once it's all said and done, or that any of your efforts were in vain. The failed experiences were educational and still ultimately led to what we have now. At least a few people will remember you on the topic of Roy.
Thank you for the kind words. You have done a lot in regards to support for Roy. I deeply appreciate your efforts.
I am fatigued because I fought for over seven years. The Roy haters are the most venomous of possibly all character detractors, and by far the loudest. Roy has among the largest fanbases in Smash, and no matter how much those guys are disproven, they never shut up.
They were wrong about Roy being forced in by Intelligent Systems. Still say it was IS and not Sakurai whose idea it was to include Roy.
They were wrong about Roy and FE6 being well-liked in Japan. Actually, they kind of backpedaled on this one. On /v/ I see plenty of racism against the Japanese for being avid Roy fans, instead saying racist things about Japanese fans somehow mitigates the fact he is popular over there.
They were wrong that Roy is not popular, yet consistently polls as among the most wanted characters for Smash DLC. When Roy was confirmed for Project M, he brought hype through the roof for that game, and he is among the most popular characters for that hack.
There is a reason why the haters ooze bile through every pore and orifice of their being. Its fear. Initially, it was fear that Roy might actually return, and anger that they know deep down their lies are just that, lies. Now that things are looking to be that Roy might actually be included, their anger and fear has increased 10-fold. They know despite all their exasperating and delirious wailing that "no one wants fire Marth" that upon release he may just end up how he was received in Melee and Project M, as one of the most popular characters. A whole new generation of Roy fans will be born, and all of their years of venom will have been for naught.
In the end, many people can't think for themselves, and I think that is especially true for Roy detractors. In nearly all of my debates with them, they struggle strongly with the fact that many of their arguments they use are cognitively dissonant with other characters they like or support.
They claim Roy fans are not legitimate fans because they have not played his game. Well I guess most Marth, Ike, Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon, ROB, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch fans are not fans of those characters either considering that most fans of those characters have not played their source material.
They claim Roy does not deserve to return because of his performance as a unit in FE6, yet Jigglypuff certainly is not a top tier Pokemon.
They claim Roy shouldn't come back because he was a crappy Marth clone, yet in another topic gush about how much they love Lucina, who is far more similar to Marth than Roy was, and also looks to be competitively worse than Roy was.
They claim that Roy should not return because his time in Fire Emblem is over. Yet the likes of Sheik, Ike, and Jigglypuff are welcome to stay.
They say Roy is hated, yet ignore just how popularly requested he is and just how many people fondly remember him in Melee and how popular of an addition he became in Project M.
For nearly 10 years they have lived in a bubble blown bigger and bigger by their hubris and hate, and now its becoming evident that this bubble is about to be popped, they cry about now being exposed to the reality they have so long been insulated against by their bubble. Its time to grow up, and accept that despite all their efforts, many of us love Roy and many more will enjoy him upon his return.
@
ChronoBound
Nice to hear from you again. Even if I wasn't around in the beginning to see it all, I appreciate all the support you've given over the years. And no problem, we'll do most of the heavy lifting from here.
It's really great to see so many Roy supporters coming together. I'm glad I could be part of this, and some campaigns. Because honestly, even if Roy doesn't become DLC, I'm having so much fun doing stuff like this.
While I have you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new Fire Emblem game, especially since there seems to be multiple versions of the game (dunno if the same thing will happen in the West). Well, I can't wait for some new info.
AND HEY NO ONE IS A FAILURE HERE! Listen to @
Royvolution Ream he knows what's up!
Seriously he put what I wanted to say in far better words than what I could.
Wow... it's actually scary how true this might have been. It must be fate that drawn us all together or something.
As with Ream, you have done a great deal to help build the Roy fanbase and I am appreciative of your efforts.
As for FE14, I am deeply concerned about the DLC plans for it. I am very wait and see on it, however, I don't like how we are being charged for alternate story paths in the game. Originally, that was called re-play value.
As for FExSMT, the less said the better. It can maybe be best described as Animu - The Game. Haha.
Also, in regards to your last comment, we Roy supporters our a tight fanbase for sure. We have supported him for years on end, and we rarely got a positive development thrown at us. Shared struggle brings people together, and a love of a similar interest as well. I might be biased, but I can't really think of another fanbase that has been like this. There are very few fanbases left that have been around for years that still have people still supporting the character. K. Rool and Isaac are the only two that come to mind. There is really no other fanbase that has endured as much crap thrown at them yet still stayed and fought like we have. Hopefully, the Ridley fanbase can look to us on how to keep fighting even when you got a bunch of loudmouths against you.
We are very unique amongst fanbases and for that reason, we might be tight knit.
That was beautiful. Simply beautiful.
@
Royvolution Ream and @
Croph
have already said this, but it can not be said enough:
give yourself more credit! When I was younger, everyone I knew loved Roy, so it was baffling to me that he didn't return for Brawl. What I found even more baffling was the fanbase's reaction to his cut. Where I was expecting to see massive outcry, I saw "Nah, he sucks. I'm glad he's gone." Sure I saw support for him here or there, but in a lot of cases it seemed like people who missed him were content to move on to Ike or other characters. There were so many times that I felt like I was the only one who really truly wanted him back.
When Smash 4 was announced, I barely cared. I thought there was no way my favorite character would return, so why should I? I minimally started paying attention to the fanbase, and by chance ran into a link to your thread about the Japanese fanbase's desires during pre-Smash 4. Seeing that Roy was the second most requested character in Japan was my first glimmer of hope in a long time. It led me to dig a little deeper and I found this very thread. There were probably about 30 or so pages at the time and I read
every single page. Every single post. Especially for any posts you made. Time and again I saw you shoot down detractors with sound arguments, many of them that I still use today.
In the end, if you think you accomplished nothing, I can tell you that you are wrong.
You are the one who brought me here.
You are the one who caused me stick around and make an account on SmashBoards.
You are the one who gave me real hope that I would once again see my very favorite character in one of my favorite game series once again.
You are the one who gave me the passion to fight for what I want.
I've meant to say this to you many times, but thank you! Thank you so much! The reason I'm trying so hard to fight for Roy's return is directly a result of your efforts. You eventually had to take a step back, and that's okay. @
Croph
took up the torch of managing the thread and @
Royvolution Ream has put so much effort into this fight that it completely blows my mind sometimes. The three of you have made such and impact and if we do get Roy back one day, it will be especially because of the efforts you all made. Each and every Roy supporter is valuable in this fight, but I will always believe that you are the one who got the ball rolling and made us as strong as we are. I have no doubt that without you, we wouldn't be where we are today.
Your words have touched my heart, and they are invaluable. Yes, all of us are important in this struggle. I am pleased with any Roy supporter that ever speaks up in his support of Roy.
It looks to be through everything we have worked for might finally come to fruition, but the fight is not over. We still need to fight on and support Roy. Only when he is confirmed can we finally rest.
Also, you are right about Roy. In the real world and among most people who don't substitute gaming message boards for a life, Roy is very loved. I even had a five year old tell me back in 2009 saying "Roy was so gnarly in Melee. Why didn't they bring him back for Brawl?" Roy brought so many people fond memories and happy times. Roy was a clone, yet even after nearly 15 years, he is more requested to return than unique characters such as Squirtle and Ivysaur. I do support those two btw, and think they should return. However, it really shows that Sakurai was right about Roy possessing a charm that made many people not forget him despite being based off of another character. The red hair, the fiery sword, Jun Fukuyama's memorable cries and grunts, despite being a clone and so many sword fighters already in Smash, Roy still stuck out amongst the cast.
Roy supporters need to become more vocal. We are definitely a large fanbase, but too many Roy supporters are too timid to speak up. Just remember you are not alone. I never cared to be with the crowd. I would speak my mind on what I felt in my heart, whether most people agreed with it or not.
With Ridley he was the most highly wanted character in Smash Bros. for many years, yet when he failed to make it in Smash Bros., so many so-called "fans" and "supporters" turned on him and basically mock and insult anyone who still supports Ridley. I think for many characters people simply don't actually support them but simply get hyped over other people's hype. Even wanting characters for reasons like "think of the moveset potential" or "xxx series needs more reps" might NOT actually be of the stuff that makes people stay when the seas get stormy.
I think, for fans who truly do love the character and want to see them in Smash Bros., the deepest support ties in with those who have built up a connection with the character. Like I imagine someone who supported Shulk because Xenoblade was one of their favorite game experiences ever more deeply and honestly supported the character than someone who supported him because "everyone else is supporting him" or "look at this cool potential moveset" or "we need more new series reps".
I think that might be the reason why Roy fans have endured for so long. You can't really point to Roy and say "FE needs more characters" or "look at the cool moves he could have guys". Ironically enough, Roy support mostly stems through most having developed a bond to the character. For many of us, we shared great memories and times playing Melee with friends, family, or even by ourselves. Winning, losing, it didn't matter. We had fun. Roy was fun. Its more than nostalgia. Those who discovered Roy with Project M still enjoyed him just as those who discovered him during the GameCube era. Playing as a character, and enjoying them, builds more support than anything else. I think that is why veterans are so heavily supported.
When I see characters supported, I wonder, are they supported because people really did like those characters or do they just supporting them because they are being told they should be supported by a few loudmouths. Ironically, the clamors by the Roy haters that Roy fans are not legitimate fans is perhaps the most amusing of ironies, it might be so that Roy support is perhaps among the deepest of all character support bases.
It's truly heartwarming how much support Roy is receiving now that the Smash Ballot is an actual thing. Japan in particular is very fond of Fire Emblem 6's protagonist, and they do want him back.
Logically, the odds are against us since Lucina is already the clone of Marth, and I'm not sure if Sakurai and the Smash Team are willing to bring back yet another clone, as easy as it may sound. BUT if the demand to see Roy is strong enough, they may do that, or maybe even consider giving him the same treatment that Luigi and Falco received.
I'll be honest though, while this certainly brings a smile to my face, I'm not keeping my hopes that high. Yet, I'd love to see our boy back in the battlefield. No disrespect to those who still support him, actually, please keep doing that, keep doing what I -and maybe others- can't.
I am glad you feel the same. I know you have been a Roy supporter for many years. Myself, you, and Col are among the few Roy supporters from the pre-Brawl Roy support topic still posting in this topic. The odds are against us, yet despite all odds we still have supported him.
...;-; Cmon guys, at least give a girl a feels warning. I don't know how to hold all these feels right now.
Everyone else has already said what I would've. Thanks Chrono for being so inspiring. :'D
As for Roy and his playstyle... I've always enjoyed how he's like a "glass cannon" character. Its more fun for me to get up in someone's face than to constantly space them out. He's high risk, but also high reward if you get him right.
So many double and triple KOs I would get with him in Melee. |D
@
Steelia
- people always get worked up over numbers. It's honestly pretty frustrating seeing that. I voted for characters that I wanted (so... Roy and Isaac) and I wouldn't change those votes no matter what. People should vote for who they want and respect the others who vote for other characters... Even if something crazy happened like only getting one more DLC character.
I appreciate that I was able to uplift your spirits. Seeing the support of all of you has uplifted me.
Also, I agree on the last paragraph in your post, people should not support what's popular or not. If they like the character, they should simply support them.
Not gonna parrot what all else said here. This had me in tears actually. It's just true in everyway, except you talking still humbly about your efforts.
Maybe we'll make you see how much you truly mean to us all these times when it came to supporting Roy's return to Smash.
I am moved that I was able to touch in such a profound way. Honestly, when I was talking earlier about how genuine character support is made by a deep connection to the character, your anecdote for why you supported Dixie Kong came to mind. You loved Donkey Kong Country 3 a great deal, and the setting of DKC3 reminded you warmly of where you live. I think that such support is becoming increasingly uncommon as the more notable characters have already been added into Smash Bros., but its stuff like that for why people support the characters they do, even if many people think they shouldn't support such a character for whatever reason.
I wouldn't mind seeing Roy back myself to be honest. He only needs to be at least as unique as Falco, Lucas and Toon Link. Since it was Chrom's supposed role to be the 'inbetween Marth and Ike power and speed' character but never made it, I think Roy could be like that.
I do think Roy will be luigi-fied to a certain extent. I think especially with Lucina entering the mix, Sakurai might even do what you suggested but most likely I see him being changed to a similar extent to what Falco and Ganondorf were changed from Melee to Brawl. I think people should have more faith in Sakurai. People tend to point to Mewtwo and Lucas not having any change in their movesets, yet there was little reason for them to be changed. These same people also previously thought Sakurai would not do any newcomers until after all the veterans were added in, yet now whine about how adding Ryu ignored the ballot. Its very petty.
Dropping by to say I voted for Roy in the ballot...and I'm also going to get a few friends who offered to do the same.
I also intended to email Nintendo on this subject some time ago, but I got sidetracked and never got to it. I'm glad to say now however that the deed is done...It's not like 500 words (in the ballot) is enough to do him justice anyway, haha.
In any case, it's nice to see how much the support has picked up, and not just here. There were some lonely battles being fought, even just a few months ago. It certainly feels like Roy's return can be more of a reality than ever.
We truly do feel on our own. Many other fanbases do scratch each other's back but for the longest time we pretty much had to fight our own battles and prominent members in the community rarely had our back. I think that might change, but maybe I am being too optimistic.
It doesn't really effect Wolf's chances anyway, I'm sure he'll get in. It's just nice to see our boy get some love!
...I'm seriously hoping for all vets now, though. Except for Pichu, and Young Link whom I don't even count anyway.
I hope all veterans return personally. I think Wolf fans should smile that Roy is returning seeing as Wolf has all of the pluses Roy had and none of the minuses. Wolf I think is a shoe-in to return, and will most likely be confirmed whenever Star Fox Wii U is released. Wolf fans that are dismayed that Roy may be returning sooner than him need to keep in mind that possible reason. Also, keep in mind this year is Fire Emblem's 25th anniversary and a new FE game releases in Japan in a few months.
Its a shame that Squirtle and Ivysaur don't get more support considering how iconic they are and how inventive their movesets were. I think that it might be because few people played as them in Brawl, and thus a deep connection with those characters did not develop for them like with other veterans. I think the same actually applies with Pichu, him being purposely terrible while it did give him a charm, led to many not playing as him.
In the end, no veteran returning is a wasted slot. Though I personally think Toon Link is more or less Young Link with a name change and design change.
@
ChronoBound
Very~ interested in hearing your thoughts.
I am happy about this. However, I know the next few months will be daunting, and we still have to wait on an official confirmation. The haters are firing up all engines hoping their vitriol will make Roy supporters shut up and thinking if they scream loud enough Roy won't return. For this reason, we should be the loudest we have every been as a fanbase. The final battle is here.
It looks like Our Boy is almost home!
I'm really glad we're getting our last Melee Musketeer back!
Fukuyama would definitely be making a return to voice Roy. I have no doubts about it in my mind.
I actually saw a Japanese Smash Bros. fan say that they shouldn't bother to bring back Roy if they can't get Fukuyama to reprise his role. Haha. I think Sakurai knows Jun's performance as Roy was part of his appeal.
Most people don't think he will changed up in any significant way. Looking at Mewtwo and Dr. Mario, their fears are quite justified.
Mewtwo had no reason to be changed. As for Doc, he was already more different from Mario than he was in Melee simply due to how much Mario has changed since then. Secondly, Doc was a last minute addition so he could not have been given more luigi-fication. Just look at how Lucina and Dark Pit turned out. I think Lucina's inclusion will be an impetus to make Roy a bigger contrast to Marth upon his return than originally planned.
Mewtwo and Lucas returning the same does ruin the thought of a Semi-clone Roy a bit although those two weren't exactly in dire need of moveset changes in the first place. I still think Lucina being playable will force some changes to Roy's moveset.
I concur.
I want to literally somehow break though my computer and shake the hand of the person who wrote that post. It's good to see the internet isn't filled with morons.
Want to shake my hand? Haha. I am warmed that you loved by rebuttal. It actually convinced a lot of people in the NeoGAF thread. I only wish I posted it sooner.
inb4 a wave of Roy 'supporters' come in, saying they supported him all the way
The true Roy supporters have had it pretty tough over the years. Hell, just go look at the very first reply to this thread made a few years back:
Even after Smash4 was released and Roy didn't make the cut, I still felt that if they went through with DLC that he'd have a decent shot. He's still a fairly popular character over in Japan coincidentally. It's just frustrating to have had to deal with so many people talking in absolutes like 'He definitely won't return' and whatnot.
Anyway, obviously nothing is guaranteed, but at least people will have to acknowledge that he has at least a shot of getting into the game with he new sound files appearing.
Also.. Just wanted to point out something a little humorous while looking through my post history in this thread.. Turns out a couple years ago I came up with an idea of how to properly make a Marth clone*coughLucinacough*.
Yes, you are one of the few Roy supporters that still here from the pre-Brawl days. Its nice to see that we might actually be seeing our dream of restoration finally being realized after all the struggles we faced over the years.
What really winds me up is everyone is banging about how Roy is a clone, while Ryu, THE MOST VANILLA FIGHTING GAME PROTAGINIST IN THE WORLD, gets a free pass for being "iconic".
I personally am very dismayed how some are acting like Roy personally slighted them, but Ryu definitely deserves to be in Smash Bros. He is a gaming legend, especially for the fighting genre. Ryu also has precedence over appearing in many crossovers, so its fitting he should make his debut in what has now become the most popular of fighting franchises.
That's @
ChronoBound
Tell him yourself.
Either way, glad to have mah boy back!
Haha. Thanks.
As a Fire Emblem fan you shouldn't be happy about Roy (if he remained a clone that is) it is gonna only add oil to the fire that's the Fire Emblem image in SSB4, Lucina ruined the image, and Roy will destroy it completely.
The FE fanbase makes itself look bad by themselves, and this is coming from a longtime FE fan. The fact is that Roy made many become FE fans to begin with.
Casual reaction (Not Hardcore Melee Fan, grew up with game): My Boy's Back
Hardcore Reaction (Grew up with Melee, hardcore Melee fan): Cool, great to see him back.
Ignorant People: We already have two Marths, its not like they ever change up clone movesets.
One of these things is not like the others.
You basically summed it up.
These are interesting times. Our battle is not yet over. We need to push harder in our support than we have ever pushed before. I will say more on another day (rally the troops) if I get the chance.
However, speaking of interesting, Sakurai will apparently be a guest speaker and moderator at that 25th anniversary Fire Emblem concert in July
http://www.fe25thevent.com/event/event2.html
The final battle has begun. As Ike would say, prepare yourself.
The salt and pessimism I'm seeing from some people... It's going to be interesting if we do end up getting Roy ans Ryu, that's for sure.
