Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Hotfeet444]

Well, just finished There will Be Brawl...That Matthew Mercer is pretty damn creative, never expected a guy who plays such a strong-willed, caring hero like Chrom could really be so balls off the wall nuts...oh well, never judge a book by its cover as they say.

And wait...are you guys STILL talking about Snake and Toad? Really?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Y not toidet

 

[Silverjay323]

ChronoBound said: ↑

Well, Wind Waker HD just bombed in Japan​

As did every Wii U related apparently.

Well as of right now aside from Pikmin and Monster Hunter there aren't too many Japanese oriented games on the Wii U. Zelda generally does better in the West anyhow, so this really isn't surprising.

 

[FlareHabanero]

And wait...are you guys STILL talking about Snake and Toad? Really?

Why are you surprised? This place is a load of crap.

 

[Zhadgon]

Toad definitely has some moveset potential, here's just some ideas. Might make this into a full fledged moveset later.

Spoiler

B: Counter. Toad pulls out Peach to counter an attack.


B^: Rocket. Toad pulls out a rocket from the ground as seen in Super Mario Bros 2. Initially it will go straight up, the player will gain directional control after it passes a certain height. The Rocket will explode if Toad collides it into the ground or wall, or until its timer runs out.

Bv: Toad can pull out a Mushroom Block and launch it at the enemy. Mushroom Blocks remain on the field for a period of time and can be picked up/ used as platforms. This might make a really interesting and trolly edge guarding technique if you launch an opponent far enough to the point where they would've grabbed onto the ledge had it not been for a strategically placed Mushroom Block.

B>: Toad Kart/ Super Mushroom. Toad hops into a Kart and drives around dealing damage to enemies he collides into, by pressing B> again Toad consumes a Super Mushroom and gains a sudden burst of speed dealing increased damage to opponents.
While in his Kart Toad is only able to perform a single short hop and can cancel this move by shielding. If Toad is holding an item he can press Z while tilting the control stick to throw the item in a given direction.

Your "B" move SOLD ME, I´m throwing money at my screen and nothing is happening.
.n_n.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Why are you surprised? This place is a load of crap.

Because everyone's opinion has to be their opinion.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Because everyone's opinion has to be their opinion.

Your opinion is ****.

 

[N3ON]

Why are you surprised? This place is a load of crap.

Still better than Brawl spec.

That was a mess.

 

[Johnknight1]

Why are people so desperate with Toad?

They're thinking how much they love him as a Mario fan rather than viewing him as what he could do that makes him better than all the major characters (as in main/most important characters in any Nintendo-owned franchises) that don't wind up being playable.

Aside from a role as a clone, I don't see Toad being better than hundreds and hundreds of considered characters.

Toad definitely has some moveset potential, here's just some ideas. Might make this into a full fledged moveset later.

Spoiler

B: Counter. Toad pulls out Peach to counter an attack.


B^: Rocket. Toad pulls out a rocket from the ground as seen in Super Mario Bros 2. Initially it will go straight up, the player will gain directional control after it passes a certain height. The Rocket will explode if Toad collides it into the ground or wall, or until its timer runs out.

Bv: Toad can pull out a Mushroom Block and launch it at the enemy. Mushroom Blocks remain on the field for a period of time and can be picked up/ used as platforms. This might make a really interesting and trolly edge guarding technique if you launch an opponent far enough to the point where they would've grabbed onto the ledge had it not been for a strategically placed Mushroom Block.

B>: Toad Kart/ Super Mushroom. Toad hops into a Kart and drives around dealing damage to enemies he collides into, by pressing B> again Toad consumes a Super Mushroom and gains a sudden burst of speed dealing increased damage to opponents.
While in his Kart Toad is only able to perform a single short hop and can cancel this move by shielding. If Toad is holding an item he can press Z while tilting the control stick to throw the item in a given direction.

All of this is stale, sorry. Counter's been done like 4 times before at least, a Kart isn't anything unique (Wario's Bike), a rocket is something the Villager has, and the mushroom throwing idea stands out, but it's not a good thing that it is the move that stands out the most.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Your opinion is ****.

Oh yeah? Well your opinion is a bigger one!

 

[ChronoBound]

Well as of right now aside from Pikmin and Monster Hunter there aren't too many Japanese oriented games on the Wii U. Zelda generally does better in the West anyhow, so this really isn't surprising.

Wii U is bombing even worse in the West though, especially in Europe.

The fact is that Nintendo was not prepared for the HD jump. Even Iwata has admitted this.

Truthfully, they should have been preparing themselves since 2009 to develop for HD consoles.

 

[Johnknight1]

Don't dare...

ROB has an awful design in Brawl, an awful moveset centered around camping, and quite frankly is literally the worst character to face (unless you love camping, timed out matches, and long poke fests! ). He was literally just a camping machine, and honestly, I don't see anything that makes him really "stick out" other than being another generic robot character (which is the most popular generic character in fighting games sans women with big... "parts).

I dunno, but I don't see that being "fixed" like what happened with Pit or Bowser. Even in Project M ROB feels uninspired, bland, and a bit of a camp-aholic. If they "fixed" how he plays and his moves to work fine, I would love, love, love, LOVE to see ROB return. I would embrace him like a long lost treasure.

 

[N3ON]

Wii U is bombing even worse in the West though, especially in Europe.

The fact is that Nintendo was not prepared for the HD jump. Even Iwata has admitted this.

Truthfully, they should have been preparing themselves since 2009 to develop for HD consoles.

What's sad is they were planning the Wii's successor since 2008. >_<

 

[SuperBrawler]

ROB has an awful design in Brawl, an awful moveset centered around camping, and quite frankly is literally the worst character to face (unless you love camping, timed out matches, and long poke fests! ). He was literally just a camping machine, and honestly, I don't see anything that makes him really "stick out" other than being another generic robot character (which is the most popular generic character in fighting games sans women with big... "parts).

I dunno, but I don't see that being "fixed" like what happened with Pit or Bowser. Even in Project M ROB feels uninspired, bland, and a bit of a camp-aholic. If they "fixed" how he plays and his moves to work fine, I would love, love, love, LOVE to see ROB return. I would embrace him like a long lost treasure.

Don't underestimate Sakurai.

 

[jaytalks]

If we are talking purely about the iconic nature of characters, without question Toad is the fifth most iconic Mario characters (not including the ones with their own series).

Smash at its core is just about Nintendo's All Stars fighting it out, and Toad is one of Nintendo's All Stars.

That's the problem with relying on popularity too much for predictions. Smash isn't just a popularity contest to whoever gets in and it never has been.

 

[ChronoBound]

Really, I think Toad would be the best choice for a Mario newcomer, but I could see a lot of people here exploding if he ends up being confirmed.

I think there is going to be very few newcomers in Smash 4 that come in without a mixed reception.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Still better than Brawl spec.

That was a mess.

The sooner we forget about that, the better.

Reminds me of when Johnknight was talking on Skype regarding pre-Brawl and looking at varies threads, and there were a lot more ridiculous ideas back then compared to now.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well as of right now aside from Pikmin and Monster Hunter there aren't too many Japanese oriented games on the Wii U. Zelda generally does better in the West anyhow, so this really isn't surprising.

None of that will be a factor until a noticeable amount of people own a Wii U, if that ever happens.

In the long run we will find out if the Wii U's terrible start was it just having terrible start (sales-wise) or will forever be a bottom tier console.

Unless Nintendo turns things around by the start of 2015, well... time for a "restart."

Which is sad, because this is the first home console they got tech-wise "right" since like the Super Nintendo, but sadly, their lack of replay quality with their Wii games (as well as relying on gimmicks and very niche markets too much) probably helped put them in this pickle.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Why are you surprised? This place is a load of crap.

As someone who deals with youtube comments that make this place look like a godsend, this place is nowhere near crap. I want to stab the next person who asks me to do a moveset for a Sonic newcomer in the throat with a pair of scissors. And no one ever asks for Metal Sonic either it's always "Shadow this, Shadow that, Shadow Shadow Shadow" or "I think Shadow will replace Sonic bcuz he's cool" or "Tails and Knuckles are so gonna be in!" or another septic tank full of over-the-top bull****.

I hate Smash Bros speculation sometimes...especially a majority of youtube speculation.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

ALRIGHT YOU ALL OVERLOOKED IT. POSTING. AGAIN

You did good but im prettysure theres going to be cuts of the veterans i think snake wolf ike and possible lucas say adios ( im pretty sure lucas is fine)

And for the newcomers i got nothing those are the newcomers i would guess (except dillon i might add though) pac man has a good shot because namco might atleast get 1 character i mean sakurai was talking about no truckload of namco characters when he said namco gets no special treatment

Thus making it 45 or 46 or 47 characters

 

[ChronoBound]

Pre-Brawl was far, far worse than now. Even bad series to discuss like FE and Pokemon were much, much worse during the pre-Brawl era than now.

Star Fox was basically how FE is now (except worse). Zelda was really bad.

Hard to think of a series that wasn't bad.

 

[Johnknight1]

Reminds me of when Johnknight was lamenting on pre-Brawl and looking at varies threads, and there were a lot more ridiculous ideas back then compared to now.

At least we talked about gameplay a lot back then, and things like how characters played in regards to their movesets, playstyles, and skillsets.

Now all anyone talks about is relevancy, popularity, and stupid "reps."

Seriously, to hell with reps. If you say the word "rep" as in "oh Mario needs another rep," you are exactly the kind of cancer Smash Boards needs to get cured of.

 

[SuperBrawler]

As someone who deals with youtube comments that make this place look like a godsend, this place is nowhere near crap. I want to stab the next person who asks me to do a moveset for a Sonic newcomer in the throat with a pair of scissors. And no one ever asks for Metal Sonic either it's always "Shadow this, Shadow that, Shadow Shadow Shadow".

According to Nintendo Power the kids like Shadow and the adults like Metal Sonic.

 

[ChronoBound]

At least we talked about gameplay a lot back then, and things like how characters played in regards to their movesets, playstyles, and skillsets.

Now all anyone talks about is relevancy, popularity, and stupid "reps."

Seriously, to hell with reps. If you say the word "rep" as in "oh Mario needs another rep," you are exactly the kind of cancer Smash Boards needs to get cured of.

You are letting nostalgia blind you there buddy.

I distinctly remember lots of people using "rep" logic a lot more back them, and for even stupider reasons. "So and so is female therefore likely" was the law of the day back then.

 

[kikaru]

They're thinking how much they love him as a Mario fan rather than viewing him as what he could do that makes him better than all the major characters (as in main/most important characters in any Nintendo-owned franchises) that don't wind up being playable.

Aside from a role as a clone, I don't see Toad being better than hundreds and hundreds of considered characters.

All of this is stale, sorry. Counter's been done like 4 times before at least, a Kart isn't anything unique (Wario's Bike), a rocket is something the Villager has, and the mushroom throwing idea stands out, but it's not a good thing that it is the move that stands out the most.

Much appreciated, I can't really explain it but there's something about trying to make movesets enjoyable. But for a character like Toad, I agree it is rather difficult to make him stand out to the rest of the cast as a lot of the material he has to work with is shared between the Mario crew in other games and with more and more characters being playable it gets harder to make an entirely unique moveset (But the Counter wasn't serious at all).

I'd be perfectly fine with just Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach, in fact this is what I'm expecting but it would pique my interest nonetheless to see an additional character for the Mario series whether it be Toad, Bowser Jr., etc.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yes, well, while people are discussing popularity and sales and all sorts of crap along those lines, I'll just be in the corner talking about stuff like Takamaru and Lip. Don't know, but a chunk of what would be considered popular among the majority of people are not exactly strong choices.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yes, well, while people are discussing popularity and sales and all sorts of crap along those lines, I'll just be in the corner talking about stuff like Takamaru and Lip. Don't know, but a chunk of what would be considered popular among the majority of people are not exactly strong choices.

What is interesting is that all three of the confirmed newcomers are either very well-known characters (Mega Man) or characters from series that sold millions upon millions of copies (Wii Fit Trainer, Villager).

To give an idea of just how much Wii Fit sold, it sold even better than Brawl did in Japan. Animal Crossing: Wild World sold over five million copies in Japan, and New Leaf is by far the highest selling game for the 3DS in Japan.

The other three rumored characters (Mii, Little Mac, Pac-Man) further back this up.

Basically, these are probably the most recognizable characters to a casual audience. While they don't appeal to the traditional Smash Bros. fanbase (outside of Mega Man and Little Mac), they do have recognition among casuals, and probably more so than any other characters aside from the Mario characters, the DK duo, and Ridley.

 

[Johnknight1]

Both Wii Fit games on the Wii sold over 20 million copies worldwide.

You are letting nostalgia blind you there buddy.

I distinctly remember lots of people using "rep" logic a lot more back them, and for even stupider reasons. "So and so is female therefore likely" was the law of the day back then.

Well I didn't visit those threads then. I mostly stuck to Wiseguy's threads, my thread, and a lot of other threads of characters that were eventually confirmed in Brawl and we had tons and tons and tons of gameplay discussions there. We made movesets like crazy, especially in Wiseguy's thread. That guy was amazing. He was probably the best speculator back then, sans The Third Koopa (who in my opinion is even better now).

Well at least everyone I was around a lot made movesets but me. I talked about how they would play. I would show, instead of tell. I like skillset and playstyle talk more. My description of Toon Link pre-Brawl was actually really spot on.

 

[MargnetMan23]

You did good but im prettysure theres going to be cuts of the veterans i think snake wolf ike and possible lucas say adios ( im pretty sure lucas is fine)

And for the newcomers i got nothing those are the newcomers i would guess (except dillon i might add though) pac man has a good shot because namco might atleast get 1 character i mean sakurai was talking about no truckload of namco characters when he said namco gets no special treatment

Thus making it 45 or 46 or 47 characters

OK I need to get this out of the way
Seriously I kind of doubt any brawl vets will be cut due to time constraints, this smash game has a lot going for it when it comes to returning characters
The amount of thought put into improving characters like Bowser to me signals a larger focus on them
We don't have a story mode to weigh development time down
The amount of newcomers so far isn't looking to be that large.

Does that sound like a situation where cuts are inevitable to you?

 

[ChronoBound]

My speculation thread was the biggest one during pre-Brawl. As a matter of fact, the Brawl roster in its entirety was first posted there.

 

[Bajef8]

At least we talked about gameplay a lot back then, and things like how characters played in regards to their movesets, playstyles, and skillsets.

Now all anyone talks about is relevancy, popularity, and stupid "reps."

Seriously, to hell with reps. If you say the word "rep" as in "oh Mario needs another rep," you are exactly the kind of cancer Smash Boards needs to get cured of.

Well, you are in the roster prediction thread right now, not the moveset prediction/how characters will play thread.

Seriously though Geno pre Brawl? Nightmare, especially for someone like me who was like, "What is this Mario RPG you speak of?"

 

[Croph]

So toads aren't living beings?
QUICK SOMEONE MAKE FANFIC ABOUT THIS!

I actually really want to write a fanfic about this... should I?

Anyway, I'm kinda skeptical on Toad, though I'm not counting him out yet (though I have a Mario newcomer placeholder on my roster). I prefer to wait patiently in the shadows to see what will happen, and not just for Toad, but for a lot of other characters. :/

 

[Bajef8]

Still think Bowser Jr. is more likely than Toad.

 

[Gune]

Well that was....interesting.... mind if we move on to another topic?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I blame Brawl for the stronger emphasis people are putting on sales and recency, which isn't being helped by Wii Fit Trainer and Villager (even though both were mostly included because of gameplay). Disappointing because, in the end, that sort of mentality is leading to a much more duller outcome in peoples eyes.

In my eyes, I've always had the prospective of gameplay and diversity, mainly characters that can provide something new and exciting and overall create the best satisfaction.

 

[Reznor]

guys the closer we get until the release date of Smash 4 the worse speculation will get

with Sonic being in 2 smash games now I bet we will hear way more people asking for 2 sonic reps

 

[ChronoBound]

I think there is a chance we could get Mii unveiled during the last week of October to tie-in with Wii Party U's release.

If that does end up happening, that means that Sakurai could simply randomly drop newcomers like what happened with Peach.

 

[Bajef8]

guys the closer we get until the release date of Smash 4 the worse speculation will get

with Sonic being in 2 smash games now I bet we will hear way more people asking for 2 sonic reps

I loathe the day someone (especially a newbie) comes in here and tries to justify a 2nd Sonic rep.

 

[?????????????]

I think Big the Cat would be a great character for SSB4. I think he really represents what the Sonic series is all about, and Sonic, having been in 2 Smash games now, easily deserves a 2nd rep, as it's one of the best Nintendo series out there.

 

[κomıc]

Well there are more positive things in bringing Snake again than pushing him over the cliff. For one both companies will benefit, Snake will get more representation and free RRPP (Public Relations) for Konami, for Nintendo it will bring more hype to the fans of Snake in Smash, to see the character back and the inclusion of a big series to that universe, not only that it brings a character that is already made and don´t need a lot of resources to be created (that brings too the music, stages, assist trophies, items and much more to the game).
Second, it would mark a healthy relation for both companies, lets think about like a country that has an embassy in another country, if suddenly that country decides to remove that embassy probably the other country will start thinking that something is wrong and the situation could turn to worse for that simple fact.
Third, Kojima and Sakurai are good friends and both are really high in the hierarchy of both companies they have a lot of power to move the deal (if you have follow this thread, there is conversation between Iwata and Sakurai and both discuss the inclusion of Snake and Sonic, it seems that Sakurai has the last words on what is happening with the project).
Four, if Sakurai wants to add again Snake he can ask as a favor to Kojima to lend him Snake again for Smash (Kojima will accept for the simple reason that he is in debt with Sakurai for including the first time Snake in to Smash). For now those are the arguments.

.n_n.

Dude, you don't understand. Sakurai DOES NOT have the final say. Not even Kojima. They both have to go to the higher ups at Nintendo and Konami. It doesn't if they're the best of friends- that's irrelevant. It may seem Sakurai has the last words what happens in the project, but that doesn't give him the right to bypass Nintendo or Konami for proper licensing. Sakurai EVEN has to go through The Pokemon Company to get permission to use Pokemon characters.

It doesn't matter if Snake will bring more hype or not. Licensing. LICENSING determines that for 3rd party characters. Your example of an embassy is not a good analogy. Konami wouldn't care if Snake was "removed" from the Smash Bros. series because they're not working under Nintendo.

If you Snake fans don't see how licensing works, then I really don't know what to tell you folks.