Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

I think Meowth is a completely viable choice (for those who didn't already know...). I would be both surprised and not surprised if he ever became playable in SSB. Wouldn't mind him at all.

If he had become playable in 64 or Melee I wouldn't have been surprised, but anything past then and into the future I would be. Not that he's a bad choice, and you have raised good point in his favour, but at this point in the series there are just too many Pokemon that seem to outweigh him in terms of factors that Sakurai/GF seem to value most when selecting the Pokemon, namely current popularity or importance to the games.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Man, it's too bad Meowth's not a final evolution of something; then he maybe could've had a Mega form like some of the other 1st gens.

Really though, I would've taken him over Jigglypuff anyday, but that's just me.

 

[?????????????]

If he had become playable in 64 or Melee I wouldn't have been surprised, but anything past then and into the future I would be. Not that he's a bad choice, and you have raised good point in his favour, but at this point in the series there are just too many Pokemon that seem to outweigh him in terms of factors that Sakurai/GF seem to value most when selecting the Pokemon, namely current popularity or importance to the games.

Definitely. That's why it would be more difficult for him now and why I would find him more surprising.

I think he still has a chance seeing the Pokemon Trainer appear in Brawl. The circumstance is a little different, but I think it shows that it is still possible for them to go back and add important older characters. I know I was surprised by the Pokemon Trainer character, as opposed to keeping Mewtwo and adding Lucario.

On a personal note, once again it's a little different, but...I feel the same way about Meowth ALMOST as much in the same way I feel about Ridley. Long-time character who I think has more than warranted a spot in Smash Bros. Of course, the biggest difference there is that Pokemon doesn't have a lack of reps in SSB, nor does it have a small pool of desirable characters that would make Meowth obvious.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Meowth had his best chance in the first game, as he and Jigglypuff were quite popular at the time thanks to the anime, but only the Jiggs was able to make it in along with Pikachu.

Currently Meowth's chances are extremely slim, but hey, maybe one day a Meowth will get a huge role in a Pokemon game one day, that might help his chances for a future Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

The thing that sucks about Pokémon characters is that there are so many good choices out there. Aside from the ones we have already, there's Meowth (which we're having a lengthy discussion on) and numerous Pokémons from all gens that could make great fighters. However, the reality is that we will probably only get seven at best (including transformation), which is why I'm crossing my fingers for a Brawl + Mewtwo situation.

 

[N3ON]

Definitely. That's why it would be more difficult for him now and why I would find him more surprising.

It's true that he'd without a doubt be a surprise if he got in now, and his supporters would have great cause to rejoice, but considering he's not particularly wanted nor expected anymore, I'd anticipate his reveal to be dividing to say the least. Ofc people always get over unexpected choices eventually, look how fast they got over WFT, so yeah, in the long term he'd still be positively received. Though I'd say at this point it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to call it a pipe dream.

I think he still has a chance seeing the Pokemon Trainer appear in Brawl. The circumstance is a little different, but I think it shows that it is still possible for them to go back and add important older characters. I know I was surprised by the Pokemon Trainer character, as opposed to keeping Mewtwo and adding Lucario.

You're right in that there are some similarities, but Pokemon Trainer was likely chosen due to his importance to the games, which Meowth wouldn't be. He'd most likely have to get in through the popularity route, which, yes, is majorly affected by the anime, but at this point, even with his longtime (and imo bordering on tiresome) appearance in the anime, there are quite a few characters that out popularize him. I really think his shot was before Brawl, and now, unless somehow he returns to the spotlight again (unlikely) his time has come and gone. Plus for SSB4 I think Sakurai will be more than satisfied with the first gen representation after going back to get Mewtwo and at least attempting to keep the other existing first-gen veterans.

On a personal note, once again it's a little different, but...I feel the same way about Meowth ALMOST as much in the same way I feel about Ridley. Long-time character who I think has more than warranted a spot in Smash Bros. Of course, the biggest difference there is that Pokemon doesn't have a lack of reps in SSB, nor does it have a small pool of desirable characters that would make Meowth obvious.

I can see where you're coming from, and I believe Meowth definitely merits inclusion more than Jigglypuff ever did, but like you said, since Pokemon is hardly short on reps, or short on potential candidates, unlike Metroid, there's really not enough room for Meowth at this point. Then again, there's not enough room for Ridley either, considering he's too big.

 

[CalumG]

Well, that's not as unexpected as Ganondorf (well maybe it is). But Paper Mario like I said is more in the area of ZS Samus & Sheik, the difference being that he is a seperate character. He has 3 of Mario's specials, but he doesn't really share any physical similarities to Mario other than the fact that he is a drawing resembling Mario. He's a 2D peice of paper. He could very well be a clone of Mario, but it's highly unlikely and would almost defeat the purpose of having him over say other power ups of Mario or Dr. Mario. It's a long shot.

Thank you. This is all I've ever been trying to prove about Paper Mario - not that he should be a clone, or even that he would be a clone, just that stranger things have happened in the past.

Paper Mario, I feel, would more likely end up as a 'fake clone' as I dub it, similar to Jigglypuff and Dedede. Jigglypuff has similar stats, build and animations as Kirby but is fundamentally different, and likewise Dedede is a very different character to Kirby but has the multiple mid-air jumps, the hammer (though used very differently) and the neutral-B suck-up allowing for Dedede-cides.

For example, everything about Paper Mario would be mostly different, and he'd probably be one of the lightest characters in the game (in league with Squirtle and Mr. Game and Watch), but it just seems fitting to me that a few of his moves are taken from Mario, or have similar properties. Mario and Luigi have iconic Up-B's, and I think it'd work smoothly for Paper Mario to share that Up-B, but like Luigi's it'd have enough quirks of its own to feel like a very different move. Likewise, his back throw (where he spins around and throws someone behind him) would be very visually pleasing as Paper Mario because he'd grab them and then spin around, revealing his flatness, adding a new twist on Mario's old back throw. There's a couple of other moves, that should share similarities - for example, I feel his forward aerial should be a meteor smash just like Mario's - but apart from that Paper Mario should stand on his own two feet.

It's tricky, because Paper Mario has enough to be completely 100% unique and not share any features with any other characters - but something in the back of my head says Sakurai would make him share 3 or 4 features with regular Mario just for the sake of familiarity.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I don't have my hopes up for them, but I do have support for Plusle & Minun. For some reason I happen to like those two a lot. I think it would be nice to have another Ice Climbers type character, but that's just me.

 

[AEMehr]

Going a tad bit off topic here but after looking at Saturn's assist trophy roster, God Robert's Cousin and I made one of our own.

It still could probably have a few characters shaven off, but each character is up there with what they will actually do in mind.
It was fun stuff

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Going a tad bit off topic here but after looking at Saturn's assist trophy roster, God Robert's Cousin and I made one of our own.

It still could probably have a few characters shaven off, but each character is up there with what they will actually do in mind.
It was fun stuff

Was very fun indeed.

Seriously though this has to be like the most perfect bestest Assist Trophy list to ever exist ever.

Omochao is definitely one of the best ideas. He flies around trying to talk and you can pick him up and throw him at opponents, telling you to stop that as you obviously don't. ROB 64 confirming your location and sending supplies to you is also a pretty interesting AT idea, imo.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Going a tad bit off topic here but after looking at Saturn's assist trophy roster, God Robert's Cousin and I made one of our own.

It still could probably have a few characters shaven off, but each character is up there with what they will actually do in mind.
It was fun stuff

I'm actually kind of intrigued in what Brewster would do upon coming out. Tails too, but for different reasons: can he lift characters, or does he appear in his mech? Release Chuchu bombs? Spindash? Tail smack? Fly his plane into the enemy? Turbo Tails? So many options!

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I'm actually kind of intrigued in what Brewster would do upon coming out. Tails too, but for different reasons: can he lift characters, or does he appear in his mech? Release Chuchu bombs? Spindash? Tail smack? Fly his plane into the enemy? Turbo Tails?

He tries to make coffee nonchalantly as usual. If he's attacked while making the coffee, scalding coffee flies off as a sort of counter and heavily damages the opponent. If he gets through making a cup without being attacked, he drops a consumable coffee recovery item and then disappears.

And that's the beauty of Tails as an AT. There's plenty of room for what you can do with him. I personally imagined him using his Tornado 2 mech, but I think AEM had a different idea in mind iirc.

 

[AEMehr]

And that's the beauty of Tails as an AT. There's plenty of room for what you can do with him. I personally imagined him using his Tornado 2 mech, but I think AEM had a different idea in mind iirc.

I did actually. I was thinking that Tails could fly by you and save you before you get knocked into the blast zone. Kinda like how the Lakitu does in Super Smash Flash 2.

 

[YoshiandToad]

He tries to make coffee nonchalantly as usual. If he's attacked while making the coffee, scalding coffee flies off as a sort of counter and heavily damages the opponent. If he gets through making a cup without being attacked, he drops a consumable coffee recovery item and then disappears.

And that's the beauty of Tails as an AT. There's plenty of room for what you can do with him. I personally imagined him using his Tornado 2 mech, but I think AEM had a different idea in mind iirc.

Perhaps the coffee item he dropped would also give the person who consumes it a brief speed boost? Pretty creative. I can see people throwing enemies into Brewster on purpose.

Would you two care to elaborate on what you think the others would do? It's far more interesting than discussing whether Bandanna Dee=Goomba, whether Ganondorf's swords are brute force or skill or Meowth's slim chances yet again.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I find the idea of Brewster's hot coffee flying into a fighter's face hilarious.

Grimer and I support this idea.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'm intrigued by Blue, Eggman and Kracko. They sound like boss material to me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Going a tad bit off topic here but after looking at Saturn's assist trophy roster, God Robert's Cousin and I made one of our own.

It still could probably have a few characters shaven off, but each character is up there with what they will actually do in mind.
It was fun stuff

*Relief*
I'm pretty curious what King Hippo do though.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Going a tad bit off topic here but after looking at Saturn's assist trophy roster, God Robert's Cousin and I made one of our own.

It still could probably have a few characters shaven off, but each character is up there with what they will actually do in mind.
It was fun stuff

I laughed pretty hard when I saw Roy on there.

Psycho Mantis would make for a really cool Assist Trophy, actually. Lots of potential with the whole controller switch and mind reading thing.
But why no third Metal Gear Assist when you have three new Assists for Sonic and Mega Man?

----

 

[BluePikmin11]

Should be Gaius instead of Roy.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So I got myself thinking again. I tried making a point the other day that recency or whatever matters quite a bit. I'd like to redact and rephrase my argument.

What I believe NOW, is that for particular series and or characters, there are exceptions or a clause of sorts.

For example, Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc...for the most part don't have a cast that changes on a regular basis as far as the main characters. For this reason, it is highly likely that no Mario, Zelda, or Donkey Kong character currently on the roster will EVER be shaved off, unless there was a reboot of the series. This would basically apply to Wario Ware, Yoshi, Metroid for the most part.

There would most likely not be any sort of addition based off of recency, because the main core of characters, the necessities, are always going to be there. Ridley, I personally believe is the only character that would be justifiable for Metroid. Otherwise, Metroid shouldn't get a character because very few others are as important or reoccurring as Ridley, whether his size is a problem or not. K.Rool is a wee bit different in my opinion. While I ( and basically everyone else) will always view him as THE Donkey Kong villain, he currently is not a focus of DKCR. Whether that will be a problem for him is yet to be seen.

Star Fox is questionable at best. I believe the most recent game for Brawl at the time was either Assault or Command. For Star Fox, the basic cast is more times than not there. Falco is a staple. Wolf is a staple. While Peppy and Slippy are staples, it would seem that they aren't incredibly likely. I just personally don't see them being clear and cut fighters like the other three already are. Krystal COULD get in, but i'd rather those three stay will differentiated movesets than get rid of 3 important characters that have been there from the start and could be different in the first place. Based on the fact that Bowser is now a beastly looking character, I wouldn't doubt Falco getting fixed to be more unique. I fully expect at least one of Falco or Wolf, while i'm not counting the other out either.

On to what I mean by exceptions or clauses. I am referring to series that either do not have a sufficient amount of characters, are added for particular value, or have changing casts. This refers to any retro additions (Ice Climbers, Pit (arguable because of KI:U)), WTF additions (G&W, R.O.B, Wii Fit Trainer), or series with spotlight characters like Fire Emblem or Pokemon.

Classic or retro characters are basically added for a valuable look at the past of Nintendo. Ice Climbers fit this perfectly. It is highly (AND I MEAN HIGHLY. WE AIN'T GETTING NO CONDOR) unlikely that we will be getting a second Ice Climbers rep. Ever. Unless they revive it like Kid Icarus, and we get a solid supporting character. However it's arguable that the series wouldn't need anything else other than Nana and Popo, which is a scenario that could be applicable to Kid Icarus and Pit.

Anyway, onto the WTF characters. These characters are added for shock, as they are completely unexpected and rarely requested. It is entirely possible that Wii Fit Trainer isn't the WTF character, but I'd say it's likely. G&W and R.O.B are unexpected, but reflect back on major parts of Nintendo history, and work well as fighters to boot.

Now onto series with changing casts. Pokemon and Fire Emblem are essentially the two major series that get affected by this. First, we'll cover Pokemon. Pokemon, while flooded with Gen 1 characters, has had characters from newer generations represented, Pichu and Lucario are the examples. With this in mind, it is highly likely that we get a newcomer that is fresh and new. While Mewtwo is a Gen 1 character, he (she?) is refreshed in what is now Gen 6. However, several others are getting the treatment as well. This includes Blaziken, Absol, Mawile, Ampharos, Lucario, etc... Compared to the others, Mewtwo has been given the most exposure to fans, so it is highly likely that because of popularity and current role in Pokemon, Mewtwo will make a return, and I almost want to say that Lucario will not be lowest on the totem pole. Remember, Jigglypuff was last in priority for Brawl, and Ness was almost removed. So at this point, while Sakurai doesn't like cuts, it's entirely possible for an Original 12 to be cut. It's fairly obvious that the only character of the original 12 that could be a justifiable cut is indeed Jigglypuff, who now plays hardly a role at all in Pokemon besides being in the wild.

Fire Emblem is in a similar boat. Because the cast changes from game to game, it only makes sense to add a character from the newest installment. It's not that i'm saying to add the newest lord just because, i'm saying it because it just makes sense. It's entirely logical to add Chrom over Roy, whether the latter had data on Brawl or not. At the current moment, in the grand scheme of things, it just makes sense to add Chrom. This is because, like Pokemon, the cast is always changing, there are always new characters in the spotlight, and I wouldn't doubt that there are reasons for having characters in the spotlight. I know some believe that characters other than Chrom will get in before him, but I just can't agree. We have yet to see a character other than the frontrunner, main protagonist get in. Having Lucina or Owain, or somebody get in over him would be like putting Wonder Blue in without Wonder Red. It just would make no sense whatsoever. That isn't to say that Lucina or somebody else (but probably Lucina) couldn't get in along WITH Chrom is outside the realm of possibility, but I'd say it's unlikely. Roy is at a major disadvantage in this regard.

I think this is a very decent way in looking at the roster. I'd get into more about newcomers, and I may later, but i'm sick of typing for now.

 

[?????????????]

@Scoliosis Jones

I pretty much agree with all that. Very well written. Would make a good video.

The one thing I'm not sure about is Jigglypuff. I think it has at least one other factor going for it; being a Fairy-type. However, I think it is still justifiable to say that Jigglypuff could be on the bottom of the pole, despite the fact it is an Original 12.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't know, if we went back in time, we could've realized WFT was viable since it was obvious it was a very popular series like Animal Crossing. It's not really WTF in a way I can't explain.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I'm intrigued by Blue, Eggman and Kracko. They sound like boss material to me.

Blue appears and sends out 2 PokeBalls at once, giving you two Pokemon to fight on your side as if you threw the PokeBalls themselves.
Eggman floats around in his machine and swings a wrecking ball around like he did in the very first boss fight of Sonic 1.
Kracko keeps his eye locked on one selected opponent and flies horizontally creating sparks. He occasionally drops a Waddle Dee or Waddle Doo, the same kind from Dedede's Side-Special.

*Relief*
I'm pretty curious what King Hippo do though.

Acts like a slower Brawl-AT Little Mac with very high knock-back punches. He can be stunned by being attacked in the gut, but there's also the risk of getting punched in that close range.

I laughed pretty hard when I saw Roy on there.

Psycho Mantis would make for a really cool Assist Trophy, actually. Lots of potential with the whole controller switch and mind reading thing.
But why no third Metal Gear Assist when you have three new Assists for Sonic and Mega Man?

We were more or less just compiling Assist Trophy ideas. Chances are any giving series save Mario would only get one or two ATs. We had three for everyone at one point and just weeded out the "eh" suggestions.

Should be Gaius instead of Roy.

No.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think King Hippo should act like Wobbuffett, where whoever attacks him get's countered back with a powerful punch.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@Scoliosis Jones

I pretty much agree with all that. Very well written. Would make a good video.

The one thing I'm not sure about is Jigglypuff. I think it has at least one other factor going for it; being a Fairy-type. However, I think it is still justifiable to say that Jigglypuff could be on the bottom of the pole, despite the fact it is an Original 12.

I was considering starting up Youtube channel with a friend or two. However they probably wouldn't take it seriously at all and we'd probably just start going off on random tangents.

Really I think particular character choices are more cut and dry than some make it out to be. It won't be a huge deal if K.Rool or Ridley don't make it. After all, the reasons as to why may be completely justifiable.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

He could very well do that. AEM and I just figured that Brewster already covers the whole counter-AT bit already.

Also, New Age Retro Hippie would be the new Tingle-type AT and therefore glorious. What's he gonna do? Take out a ruler? Brush his teeth? Call you names? You never know.

 

[?????????????]

Really I think particular character choices are more cut and dry than some make it out to be. It won't be a huge deal if K.Rool or Ridley don't make it. After all, the reasons as to why may be completely justifiable.

Right. I know people who were very upset when neither character made it into Brawl. I think it's entirely possible that neither could make it into SSB4. Of course, I love both characters, and I think Ridley especially deserves the spot, but it doesn't mean I completely expect it to happen. It could really go either way, and they would both make sense.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

To go alongside my previous rant, i'd like to propose my "Character Pool", which contains my selections divided into the projected default slots, the potential cuts, and the potential newcomers.

As you can see, every character from Brawl is up there, along with a good chunk of the newcomer pool. There are surely characters that I missed, such as my favored Paper Mario. This is a helpful tool, as it gives us a visual example of what we're looking at for Smash 4, and maybe even Smash Bros. 6. (Smash 3DS is 5, or the Wii U version is. Whatever.)

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

To go alongside my previous rant, i'd like to propose my "Character Pool", which contains my selections divided into the projected default slots, the potential cuts, and the potential newcomers.

As you can see, every character from Brawl is up there, along with a good chunk of the newcomer pool. There are surely characters that I missed, such as my favored Paper Mario. This is a helpful tool, as it gives us a visual example of what we're looking at for Smash 4, and maybe even Smash Bros. 6. (Smash 3DS is 5, or the Wii U version is. Whatever.)

Seems like a good way to look at things. The listing of Ghirahim, Wonder Red, and Alph over Tingle, Lip, and Andy makes me cringe a little, but I get the point.

What does this really say that hasn't already been said, though?

 

[FalKoopa]

How about Porky as an AT?
"Porky complained to Ness!"
"Porky smiles insincerely!"
"Porky used Ness as a shield!"
"Porky played dead!"

 

[Deleted member]

I WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP SAYING CHROM IS GUARANTEED TO GET IN CAUSE FE:A IS THE BEST SELLING FE GAME IN HISTORY!

Jesus, there's nothing more annoying than that. Especially when they say he's gonna get in over Ike. I'm gonna laugh when we instead get a Chrom x Lucina AT to "represent" the newest game, cause that's what's likely to happen. It's why ATs were made in the first place.

Also, I'm not talking about people here, I'm talking about idiots in other forums.

 

[FalKoopa]

I WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP SAYING CHROM IS GUARANTEED TO GET IN CAUSE FE:A IS THE BEST SELLING FE GAME IN HISTORY!

Actually it's not. FE7 sold better.

 

[?????????????]

Actually it's not. FE7 sold better.

?

http://www.nintendofrontier.com/2013/08/fire-emblem-awakening-becomes-best.html

Don't know the validity of this particular article, but I've seen several similar ones.

In any case, it's not just the sales, it's the milestone. I think FE:A is a big step in the Fire Emblem franchise. I would be more surprised if we got less than a playable character in SSB to represent this. Of course there's no guarantee, but I think it's one of the more likely newcomers out there (when compared to other popular choices like Ridley, Palutena, K. Rool, etc.).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Seems like a good way to look at things. The listing of Ghirahim, Wonder Red, and Alph over Tingle, Lip, and Andy makes me cringe a little, but I get the point.

What does this really say that hasn't already been said, though?

Well one thing that I think is underestimated is the roster size. Given that this is a visual example, we can actually see as a whole who is basically guaranteed to return, which is pretty hefty at about 30 characters counting newcomers thus far. Not to mention, others in the potentially cut shouldn't be counted out, as surely a few of them will return. It just shows that the roster will be a decent size without compromising too many characters.

 

[Gune]

I don't see what's so bad about chrom getting in its a possibillity and so is the possibility of him out prioritizeing Ike, dont get me wrong I like ike too but we all saw what happened too mewtwo and he was iconic and very popular the very same thing could happen to Ike.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Ike is out, don't count on Roy. That's all I'm saying.

 

[?????????????]

If Ike is out, don't count on Roy. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not expecting Roy one bit. Not between Marth, Ike, and the potential Awakening characters.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If Ike is out, don't count on Roy. That's all I'm saying.

Yea. I personally think the Fire Emblem priority will be Marth > Chrom > Ike > Roy. I think the first three are going to make it quite honestly. I could see Chrom getting in over Ike, but I don't want Ike to be excluded.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Well one thing that I think is underestimated is the roster size. Given that this is a visual example, we can actually see as a whole who is basically guaranteed to return, which is pretty hefty at about 30 characters counting newcomers thus far. Not to mention, others in the potentially cut shouldn't be counted out, as surely a few of them will return. It just shows that the roster will be a decent size without compromising too many characters.

You think somewhere in the 45 range might be the result? Something like this, minus a cut veteran or two?

I'm just wondering how much of a mindset you and I share on the roster size.

 

[FalKoopa]

?

http://www.nintendofrontier.com/2013/08/fire-emblem-awakening-becomes-best.html

Don't know the validity of this particular article, but I've seen several similar ones.

In any case, it's not just the sales, it's the milestone. I think FE:A is a big step in the Fire Emblem franchise. I would be more surprised if we got less than a playable character in SSB to represent this. Of course there's no guarantee, but I think it's one of the more likely newcomers out there (when compared to other popular choices like Ridley, Palutena, K. Rool, etc.).

Comparing their Wikipedia articles, FE7 clocked about 300,000 units, compared to 240,000 for FE13. I'm not sure how accurate the comparison is however.

Regardless, I think Chrom is a likely newcomer (~50% chance), not because of his sales, but as you said the game does deserve some recognition, though not necessarily in playable form.