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Re: Question about Brawl's future.

Pubik Vengeance

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Excellent thread.

For me, I love Brawl and I was really discouraged when everyone would put down the game. Now I've gotten over it and just think "Who cares what some jaded, cynical internet troll says?"
 

Zodiac

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Alpha zealot you are wrong, brawl is limited by its self, our minds have done everything they can to expand it, and they still are, and yet its still not expanding very well unfortunately, (Or fortunately if your a brawl hater)
 

Fatmanonice

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But Brawl IS limited in some ways; you can't argue that Brawl is less limited than Melee. This being said, it begs the question: why should we put up with the inferior game?

All this would be solved if we forgot about Brawl and went back to Melee. Any other smart competitive gaming community would do the same, but for some reason, we refuse to.

Look what happened to Soul Calibur.
And people can't just play Melee if they want to because? I don't know the full story behind what happened between the transition from Soul Calibur II to Soul Calibur III or why its community died out. Was it because to many people abandoned the former? Lack of technical development? The fact that the game had the "create a character" mode?
 

Rapid_Assassin

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I've actually found that more than anything, it's the community spawned from Brawl that I dislike. The game itself is fine.
Really? The scrubs who think they're amazing but aren't exist everywhere you go, not just Brawl. The thing I like about the new Brawl community is seeing people I haven't seen for 2-3 years because they quit Melee for whatever reason but decided to play Brawl.
 

Zankoku

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And people can't just play Melee if they want to because? I don't know the full story behind what happened between the transition from Soul Calibur II to Soul Calibur III or why its community died out. Was it because to many people abandoned the former? Lack of technical development? The fact that the game had the "create a character" mode?
Essentially, it was because almost the entire community shifted to SC3, but SC3 was full of glitches that ended up breaking the game for competitive play. And, instead of going back to SC2, they pretty much decided to just stop playing Soul Calibur altogether.
 

Smashless

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yeah, if tomorrow we found all these great glitches in brawl that broke it in half like scIII, i'm not sure if the pro community would freak out or confess their undying love for brawl over melee : /
 

Zankoku

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Seeing as how true glitches like Mewtwo's Soulstunner and the ICs Freeze Glitch are banned in Melee tournaments, I think it's a little naïve to be claiming competitive Smash players would enjoy Brawl if the game was broken.

Really? The scrubs who think they're amazing but aren't exist everywhere you go, not just Brawl. The thing I like about the new Brawl community is seeing people I haven't seen for 2-3 years because they quit Melee for whatever reason but decided to play Brawl.
I think I saw about four or five of those people. Only two or three of them regularly go to tournaments, though.
 

Adi

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AlphaZealot said:
Brawl is only limited by our own minds.

Offense beating defense in Brawl: youtube.com/alphazealot
Yeah we all know Diddy can spam dash attack without being punished (especially in a laggy online environment, otherwise K^2 might have been able to B-Up). He's the only character who can really overpower defense like that. Otherwise, Brawl's basic mechanics (low hitstun, ability to drop shield into any move almost instantaneously), is heavily in favor of defensive camping play.
 

Aminar

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I've played MTG for years. I judged a game called heroclix for 2 years. These games put out 3-4 new sets every year. And ecery set gets the same reaction Brawl did. The net is made up of the vocal minority, the too conservative to change, and the Troll. Therefor while a good majority of people are happy, you only see unhappy ones.
Brawl has a future, and it's a big bright one.
 

Egret

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I've played MTG for years. I judged a game called heroclix for 2 years. These games put out 3-4 new sets every year. And ecery set gets the same reaction Brawl did. The net is made up of the vocal minority, the too conservative to change, and the Troll. Therefor while a good majority of people are happy, you only see unhappy ones.
Brawl has a future, and it's a big bright one.
I played magic for 5 years (up until fall 2007) and this analogy seems quite flawed to me. Those who reject the rotation of old sets out of T2 (which I assume you're referring to, though this applies to 1.5 as well), as new ones come in, are not particularity competitive players. The game mechanics of MTG are not drastically altered as the legal sets change, rather each new set uses the mechanics in different ways. Competitive T2 has always been about the change which happens very frequently. Most significantly Magic, unlike smash, is designed to be played competitively and is developed extensively to this end in ensuring that changes bring continuous competitive experience. (Though admittedly some blocks are less successful than others.) This is nothing like melee -> brawl. Rather melee -> brawl, is more equatable to moving from playing mtg to a less playtested spinoff TCG. Not to say brawl won't be as good as melee, I really don't know, but your example does not apply to this.
 

Zodiac

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I've played MTG for years. I judged a game called heroclix for 2 years. These games put out 3-4 new sets every year. And ecery set gets the same reaction Brawl did. The net is made up of the vocal minority, the too conservative to change, and the Troll. Therefor while a good majority of people are happy, you only see unhappy ones.
Brawl has a future, and it's a big bright one.
Heroclix is NOT THE SAME AS SMASH.
 

Zodiac

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Edit: Its been like two hours since I posted the above, Sorry to double post.

RDK, I know you love expressing your hatred for Brawl, but calling it an inferior game is complete conjecture at this point and only your opinion. I wonder if you picked up Melee the first time, not having known any of the advanced techniques, and thought it could have been an incredibly deep and awesome competitive fighting game.
Amazingly enough, people did find out that it could be a deep awesome competitive fighting game, so naturally when brawl came out, we all thought it would be the same, but it wasn't, it isnt, and it cant be.

But Brawl IS limited in some ways; you can't argue that Brawl is less limited than Melee. This being said, it begs the question: why should we put up with the inferior game?

All this would be solved if we forgot about Brawl and went back to Melee. Any other smart competitive gaming community would do the same, but for some reason, we refuse to.

Look what happened to Soul Calibur.
Yes any smart competitive gaming community would. End of story.

Brawl is inferior to melee, its not "different" as so many people are saying in place of inferior. Again the fact that brawl is inferior(Not just to melee but to basically EVERY FIGHTING GAME) doesn't mean theres "hate" on brawl. It just means that brawl is inferior. I don't hate brawl, I read post's every day in the melee forums from people who , to paraphrase "don't hate brawl, but would play Melee over Brawl any day"

If you choose to play brawl, yay for you, if choose melee yay for you, But please just remember, Brawl is inferior, not bad, just inferior/ not applicable as a competitive fighting game. Its a good game, just not the right game for this community.
 

Deadandlivin

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My guess is simply brawl will remain quite big and grown bigger for some months or perhaps a year.
Then people will grow tired of it since they wont be, probably, able to develop any new features and brawls competive community, and the game in total will instantly become less popular.
So clearly i'm stating my guesses are the game with time will become smaller, instead of like melee, become greater.

Still that's just guesses...
 

Cookiez

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I've posted this before but... the reason I believe Brawl won't enjoy as long a competetive life as Melee, is because it lacks these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6viaa76cAo

Oh snap moments. Moments where the entire crowd is on their feet cheering. I've watched countless Brawl videos, and i must say nothing i've seen compares.
 

LavisFiend

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I beg to differ cewks.

It is said my super sexy awesome technical skill, or should I say, "schmexical" skill, has been known to light up the scene.

My jovials alone are like electric dynamite! ;D

I guess it depends on the scene and well, if I am there of course. XD

Seriously though, best Melee moment ever is nailing a triple knee followed by a STAAWMP.
 

ShadowLink84

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Edit: Its been like two hours since I posted the above, Sorry to double post.



Amazingly enough, people did find out that it could be a deep awesome competitive fighting game, so naturally when brawl came out, we all thought it would be the same, but it wasn't, it isnt, and it cant be.
Which is why hope is for the stupid.
Clearly it was going to be different. Mainly because of the updates.
As soon as he mentioned a chainge in airdodging I was like, there goes wavedashing.
Must mean he may remove L canceling as well.
Everyone thought , SEQUEL! IT WILL BE LIKE MELEE 2.0.

I think it wasn't only the fact that Brawl is different but the anticipation of Brawl. So it is understandable why people would feel more sore than normal.
Yes any smart competitive gaming community would. End of story.
Incorrect. I believe there have been cases in which street fighter games have coexisted.
WC2 and SF2 I think.
One of which hacked the game to balance things out and the other that continued playing with all the broken parts in it.
You don't HAVE to quit a series just because the sequel was bad.
For that they could have stayed with SC2.
THat's what I would have done anyway.

Brawl is inferior to melee, its not "different" as so many people are saying in place of inferior. Again the fact that brawl is inferior(Not just to melee but to basically EVERY FIGHTING GAME) doesn't mean theres "hate" on brawl. It just means that brawl is inferior. I don't hate brawl, I read post's every day in the melee forums from people who , to paraphrase "don't hate brawl, but would play Melee over Brawl any day"

If you choose to play brawl, yay for you, if choose melee yay for you, But please just remember, Brawl is inferior, not bad, just inferior/ not applicable as a competitive fighting game. Its a good game, just not the right game for this community.
I agree with this statement 100%

BRawl is inferior to Melee competitive wise. It isn't that it can't be competitive but that the depth of the game is simply inferior to melee.
No hate involved.
 

CivicSmash

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I waited so patiently for YEARS and YEARS for Brawl to come out. Only to get a Mario Party....... I have rarely played the game since the first couple days after it's release. I find it that boring. It is such a shame that the game turned out the way it did, there was so much potential that got crapped on. I mean, the game could of been the greatest game of all time. The only reason why im keeping my wii is for the virtual console and future zelda releases. I think that people who like this game have a mental disability. And whats with people dying at like 68%?
 

LavisFiend

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I waited so patiently for YEARS and YEARS for Brawl to come out. Only to get a Mario Party....... I have rarely played the game since the first couple days after it's release. I find it that boring. It is such a shame that the game turned out the way it did, there was so much potential that got crapped on. The game could of been the greatest game of all time. The only reason why im keeping my wii is for the virtual console and future zelda releases. I think that people who like this game have a mental disability.
Mm-hmm...

but how does that make you FEEL?
 

DRaGZ

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I've played MTG for years. I judged a game called heroclix for 2 years. These games put out 3-4 new sets every year. And ecery set gets the same reaction Brawl did. The net is made up of the vocal minority, the too conservative to change, and the Troll. Therefor while a good majority of people are happy, you only see unhappy ones.
Brawl has a future, and it's a big bright one.
Man...you just forced a bunch of memories for me to rush back.

Although, it's mostly for YGO. Man, when CED was released...all hell broke loose until it got banned.
 

Amarkov

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Dec 20, 2007
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And whats with people dying at like 68%?
What? People do not die at 68%. I mean, REST does not kill at 68% in Brawl. I'm trying hard to think of any move that actually would kill that low... Volcano kick, maybe.
 
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Word of warning: The Soul Calibur community enthusiastically made the switch from II to III. Guess what happened? The worldwide Competitive SC-communities were decimated. Virtually everyone's stopped playing SC Competitively and you almost never see any large tournaments for it anymore. This is the price you might have to pay if you blindly rush in and make the transition without first evaluating the game.
This is why I feel that Brawl was a huge mistake on Nintendo's part. When making a sequel to a competitive game you are going to diverge players from one competitive community into the next. However what happens when you create a game that is worse than the prior you actually ruin BOTH games chance of tournament success. By having one game (Brawl) unable to sustain a highly competitive environment you are ruining that game's chance for competitive success. But by making that game a sequel to a competitive game you are splitting the foundations of the community for you first game hindering that game's ability to have a successful competitive community.
Nintendo did damage to both Brawl, and Melee by creating Brawl.
 

Vaul

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Disclaimer: Please try to ignore the '2008' join date. Brawl's impact on the community and its consequences have made it so that I now just skip 90% of 2008 join date posts, simply for the sake of preventing the corruption of my language and grammar skills/wasting my time. Hopefully, this post will fall within the 10% minority.

Question: How many of you actually made an income playing Melee? I'm not talking about the inconsistent upper placement that was able to pay for gas and a sandwich. I'm not even talking about the 1st place finishes that helped pay for any tournament-traveling hotel expenses you've had during the past 5 years, the big wins which payed for your summer vacation plans, etc. That's all just ****s and giggles. That's enjoying Smash as a past time, as a hobby, or god forbid, as a means of developing a rep that you probably couldn't get any other way. I want to know who are the real Smashers, the supposed pros, who's actual future hangs in the balance. Don't interpret that to mean I have sympathy for them; I don't, they're really ****ing good. I am simply searching for the select few who can actually be described as being "professional" Smashers. Now before you either blindly answer this question, or tell your few 'pro' acquaintances to post here to make it appear that this argument actually matters, think for a good 5 to 10 seconds, take a deep breath, and reply with your argument if you truly care. In short, when you money match someone, is the money itself the primary initiative to win, or does it serve mainly as a veil to compete, an added boost, used as a certificate of legitimacy while your main intentions are to experience tremendous pleasure when you beat an opponent at their best? That stated, let us now look at the two possible answers:

If you answered NO: Hopefully this is the majority of you, whether you choose to respond or not. This ranges from being the party game enthusiast to the experienced, articulate Smash Boards member who is highly esteemed for their arguments and contributions....but still don't place well at major tournaments (with 'well' being defined as actually making good money). I use money as a means of OFFICIAL competitive legitimacy for a few reasons, most notably because a player can win every single tournament they happen to attend, but it only means so much when the tournaments they went to were small and their per tournament earnings were never over $100 (that's just a guesstimate, definitely not the defining threshold). If you fall anywhere within these stated extremes, please ask yourself the following question:

Why am I so concerned with the Brawl v. Melee debate?

I'm sure the most common retort I'll hear would be somewhere along the lines of "Because I have played smash for years and its competitive nature has been a major hobby/part of my life. Just because I don't make a lot of money doing it doesn't mean it isn't important to me." Or, perhaps it could be "As a 2008 join date member, you (Vaul) cannot possibly understand what this community is all about. We've spent YEARS turning the Smash metagame into what its become today and have developed a common bond amongst one another that even transcends the actual game of Smash itself. Just because it doesn't mean much to you, it doesn't automatically determine that it doesn't mean much to us."

These are really, really sweet and heartfelt. Srysly. I can't argue with that. But, I can address them.

If the first probable retort is most like yours: Do what you want. I know this argument has been reiterated countless times by those partaking in Brawlphilia, but really, please think about it. To briefly state the obvious (I swear my arguments will become more original), no one is stopping you from playing S64, Melee, or Brawl. You and your flock of birds of feather can fly together (zing). If your claims don't go beyond your personal and subjective views on the superiority of Melee or the promise of Brawl, then what's your point? By *****ing and whining at each other, what are you trying to accomplish? Do you feel that your being attacked and must defend yourself? Are you trying to be as vocal as possible so Nintendo just might possibly hear you? Are you trying to convince the community to not fall into the fad and stick with Melee/to adjust smoothly into Brawl and embrace it since Brawl is the future and Melee is dead? More specifically, by saying Brawl is inferior....what the **** are you trying to prove aside from whats been stated above? If you're trying to pursue one of the said goals....good luck buddy. If your doing it just because you feel the need to vent and whine about your "complete disappointment with looking forward to Brawl for, like, YEARSS", then I am truly, truly sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, there's nothing we here at the Community can do regarding Brawl's gameplay. That, and we really don't give a **** about your personal complaints and immaturity regarding a video game. The same applies to your opinion of me. If you don't give a ****, don't respond.

If the second retort is more probable in your case (sorry this is going a bit slow, by the way), then yea, I can sympathize. But I can't empathize with those who are seriously worried about the division of the Smash community and who believe that a community which plays two different games can't possibly work/would be the near equivalent of Smash Armageddon. I know people often forget this sometimes, so I'm going to do a favor to all of those with their panties up in a bunch and tell them this: No matter how much you've let Smash consume your life and no matter how much perspective you may have loss......Smash is a video game. Let me say that again. Smash is a ****ing video game. This isn't a decision between whether to continue to use petroleum or invest in renewable energy, to allow women to vote or not, to legalize more drugs or enforce laws further. This is Melee vs. Brawl. A video game vs a video game, or more like which video game we should choose to play with eachother. You thrust your arguments and spew your data and facts for why one is superior to the other, but how many of you actually vote? And for the inevitable responses of 'these big picture arguments have no place in a video game forum", then perhaps, but that still won't change the fact of how unbelievably ignorant you are.
But staying to the topic, would two separate communities really dismay you that greatly? This isn't your father fighting against you in a civil war, this is a friend who likes one video game designed for parties more than the other video game designed for parties. If this **** keeps on going any longer, then perhaps that will be the best course to pursue, because as Samurai Panda said, this argument is deterring new players from the Smash scene in general. If you don't care about a large group base, all the more power to you. If you do care that your community supporting a better video game is dying for no real logical reason, then, not to come off as condescending or anything, but boo****inghoo. This eventually happens to all video game communities; *****ing and whining can't stop it. I'm not saying you should stop playing Melee, by no means absolutely no. You can still enjoy its gameplay forever and always. But if you're trying to resist the tide that is change and bring others to your cause...your pretty ****ed. Plus in no way will Melee disappear from the community scene for years to come. Compared to my involvement with the Populous: The Beginning community (never even heard of it have you?), you guys are pretty well off.

To sum up those who answered No, many of the more vocal and polarized debaters are being excessively melodramatic. Don't barrage me with your petty tears and how much Smash means to you. You are most likely only part of the competitive scene because you want to prove/test yourself at how good you are doing what you like best. Did Overswarm win anything from that first huge Wi-Fi tournament which was actually useful and tangible? He quotes himself saying how bad he felt losing in Melee and won't be 'that person' in Brawl. Okay. Great. Insecurities aside, are you playing Smash for a reason other than you enjoy Smash and want a good rep? If you aren't, then I have no problem with that and you are certainly succeeding with that stated policy. But if it doesn't extend anything beyond the sensation one derives from 'competition' itself, then what does this whole argument matter for? (I'm only using Overswarm as an example because of the quote; I have nothing against him and do not mean this to sound hurtful in any way). This same question applies to the other side of the debate: If your livelihood and general well being doesn't rely on whether Brawl or Melee is used, why are you arguing with a one-track mind for Melee over Brawl? If it's because you find Melee more rewarding and it makes you all happy and tingily inside, no one is taking that away from you. It may SEEM that your once happy go lucky lifestyle is now under siege by Brawl and the Noob Army, but please, be realistic. Ignore how defensive Brawl is. Dismiss its legitimacy as a fighting game because "there aren't any REAL combos, they can easily be airdodged and DI'ed out of. There's no skill and I'm Yuna so its true" ('Seriously, how many competitive Smash players can there really be in ****ing STOCKHOLM?? I guess there's enough to allow your self-esteem to ride on it' - Vaul 2008). If you're truly rational, you should not give that much of a **** about Brawl and stick to your guns. For you, Melee is here to stay and always will be. And as I stated earlier, I wouldn't worry about losing a Melee fanbase anytime soon. Populous the Beginning. Enough said.


If you answered YES: All personal preferences and opinions aside, your stances on the issue are the only ones which truly matter in determining whether Melee or Brawl is OFFICIALLY used for competitive play in large tournaments. This is your skill we're talking about, you're money, and you're life. You alone can decide what professionals will do. Anyone else who argues that even though their not pro but still find good competition to be very important to them, then let them do whatever the hell they want. They're concerns about losing players for tournament play are understandable, but really, they are merely complaining about giving up something they're worked so hard to attain. Perhaps they have not truly experienced disappointment in their actual lives. Yet no matter, for they are just playing for fun and making a name for themselves; this is truly what it all boils down to.

Now don't get me wrong, I ****in love video games. I probably enjoy Smash just as much as you do. I too find great pleasure in beating a good Pikachu to a bloody, yellow pulp using DK's merciless fists. Competition is fun AND its good for keeping the game going for an extended period of time. That said, do what you want to do. But don't preach to others and flame them if they don't happen to share your views. It's not constructive, it's whining. For those who answered yes, just remember that Brawl currently has the larger and fastest growing fanbase, hence this game will be where the money ends up despite the lack of technical skill and intensity. Im not qualified to claim which is better for official competitive play (this is a competitive web site afterall, those seeking competition should just pursue where the competition actually is). Since you are most likely the ones who have defined competitive Smash as we know it, developing the game on an individual scale in the endless pursuit to overwhelm the competition for the greatness that is victory, truly you are the best (if only) qualified personnel to make an official decision. Everyone else can do what they want and STILL find the initiative, namely money and competition, to encourage them to continue playing their video game.

God speed my friends. God speed.
 

RDK

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TL ; DR

@SamuraiPanda:

Like I said, I'm opting to stick with Brawl because that's where the money and tournaments are at. That doesn't mean I have to like the Brawl scene, whose compatriots are composed majorly of galactically immature party gamers--and that doesn't mean I have to like Brawl's terrible camp-oriented game engine or highly unbalanced character roster *COUGH* SNAKE *COUGH*.

It just saddens me that Brawl's competitive potential is so slow. The skill gap, while still large enough, has been lessened nonetheless. People who b!tched and moaned about Melee being gay because of "broken techniques" can come into Brawl and do fairly well against people who were actually dedicated to being good in Melee. While those people will still place high in tournaments, the fact that the other group of people have even just a little bit of a chance of beating them once in a while due to tripping or some other god-awful mechanic, is bad.

Great players will still place great. But now bad players can place good.
 

Hydde

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What? People do not die at 68%. I mean, REST does not kill at 68% in Brawl. I'm trying hard to think of any move that actually would kill that low... Volcano kick, maybe.
Lol. tell some Ness user to PK thunder ur face in the first frames of the animation( when ness starts flying). U can die in less than 50% sometimes on FD
 

Zankoku

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That's about as viable of a KO as getting Volcano Kicked. Or charge-fsmash'd by Snake.
 

Sliq

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Time to start some ****. *Cracks knucles*

Melee > Brawl

Forever and ever.
 

AlexX

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EDIT: I'm starting to wish Smashboards allowed deleting of your own posts...
 

Pubik Vengeance

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Like I said, I'm opting to stick with Brawl because that's where the money and tournaments are at. That doesn't mean I have to like the Brawl scene, whose compatriots are composed majorly of galactically immature party gamers--and that doesn't mean I have to like Brawl's terrible camp-oriented game engine or highly unbalanced character roster *COUGH* SNAKE *COUGH*.
You say this as if Melee isn't imbalanced. I mean, Brawl might very well become as imbalanced as Melee because as of now it is hard to tell without the years of tournament play that came out of Melee.

However, criticize Brawl whatever, but it makes absolutely no sense to criticize it for being imbalanced as a way to show you like Melee.
 

Yukiwarashi

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TL ; DR

@SamuraiPanda:

Like I said, I'm opting to stick with Brawl because that's where the money and tournaments are at. That doesn't mean I have to like the Brawl scene, whose compatriots are composed majorly of galactically immature party gamers--and that doesn't mean I have to like Brawl's terrible camp-oriented game engine or highly unbalanced character roster *COUGH* SNAKE *COUGH*.

It just saddens me that Brawl's competitive potential is so slow. The skill gap, while still large enough, has been lessened nonetheless. People who b!tched and moaned about Melee being gay because of "broken techniques" can come into Brawl and do fairly well against people who were actually dedicated to being good in Melee. While those people will still place high in tournaments, the fact that the other group of people have even just a little bit of a chance of beating them once in a while due to tripping or some other god-awful mechanic, is bad.

Great players will still place great. But now bad players can place good.
So you stick to a game that you dislike for the sake of tournaments and money? That seems like a bit of a waste of time to me. I can't really see the logic in entering a tournament for a game you don't even like. Wouldn't it be better to enter a tournament, win and get money for something you enjoy doing, with people you enjoy being around?
 

Zankoku

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Unfortunately, the people hosting tournaments in this area are doing Brawl, not Melee, so there's no money nor people in continuing to play Melee here.
 

Unknown17

Smash Ace
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
659
Location
Waterbury, C.T.
So you stick to a game that you dislike for the sake of tournaments and money? That seems like a bit of a waste of time to me. I can't really see the logic in entering a tournament for a game you don't even like. Wouldn't it be better to enter a tournament, win and get money for something you enjoy doing, with people you enjoy being around?
I agree with that...u should enjoy the game...not just go for the money or prize money...cause if u don't enjoy it u'll probably loss to someone who does...not to be mean or anything...plz ppl don't take it offensive...
 

Yukiwarashi

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
2,119
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
But couldn't you just...not play? I've seen his posts. Brawl isn't what he hoped for, and he dislikes it. Melee's scene is dying, yes. So...you could just not play Brawl, especially since you don't like it at all, and go on doing something you enjoy, rather than bother yourself playing something you find inferior. But whatever...I guess I wouldn't understand.
 

Adi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
1,505
Location
New Paltz, NY
Because SamuraiPanda tried a last valiant attempt to reach out and convert the "brawl-haters". All it did was cause more conflict.
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
Because SamuraiPanda tried a last valiant attempt to reach out and convert the "brawl-haters". All it did was cause more conflict.
Incorrect. This is NOT a Brawl vs Melee thread, and I would appreciate it if people would stop debating that topic in here. This thread is merely to help the people who joined recently not lose hope with the game that they enjoy just because of people who dislike it.
 
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