Project Mewtwo

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Yeah but he should still disappear for a bit just to keep it like melee (aka keep him unique)


and has anyone noticed in melee, when you had a fully charged shadow ball and you airdodged, the purple glow is still there? So when he airdodges it's like a purpley ghostly glow. :D

I guess we should/could do it just because M2 is just that cool.

But if we put in the purpley ghostly glow from the fully charged shadowball, wouldn't that sort of negate any advantage he would have from being invisible for a second or two?

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

I guess we should/could do it just because M2 is just that cool.

But if we put in the purpley ghostly glow from the fully charged shadowball, wouldn't that sort of negate any advantage he would have from being invisible for a second or two?

If he has an invisibility dodge in brawl, it wouldn't give him an advantage at all.

 

[Shadic]

...Give him a directional airdodge that doesn't put him into freefall, but don't allow wavedashing from it?

/Coming up with ridiculous, complex ideas.

 

[Wavedash Master]

For now, I'm going to leave any ideas about model hacking alone, simply because I do not yet have sufficient information to make decisions on how Mewtwo should be implemented in that area. Anyways, the "weird" moves seem to have gotten good ideas so far. I saw ideas of status effects with his down + B and a tripping effect for side + B (I'm liking this idea especially, but I need more opinions on this). It sounds that forward throw might be able to be replicated, but this would be a tricky move to make work properly (It needs to be DIable, but at the same time hit fully if the opponent does not DI correctly). I'm just letting everybody know that throw is on the border to be reworked.

Also, start listing what ideas you like best so far. That way, if I see people liking more of one idea, I can make progress to the list in my original post. If you don't see something that you would like in Mewtwo, please suggest your idea to better this character (that doesn't mean your idea is automatically going to be in there, but if the community likes it, your idea very well might make in the list).

Edit: I have created the first version of a move template in the first post. If anything is missing for the move description, please add one in. I'll update accordingly.

 

[colored blind]

My votes go for tripping/pitfall Confusion and a low-lag, non-freefall Teleport.

 

[CountKaiser]

I vote for disable, a replacement for confusion(psychic or reflect work awesomely.), and a swift fthrow.

Also, disable can be done with the current hitbox modifier.

The BKB of the move determines how long the disable is at 0%, and the KBG determines how much longer someone is disabled with damage. The move needs to do damage in order to grow in disable time. Only grounded opponents can be disabled, aerial opponents get hit away as if the move were a normal attack.

 

[Volkner582]

i <3 lucario as a pokemon but as a character in brawl he sucks i mean he isn't even a legendary or starter i mean making lucario a playable character is like making gardevoir a playable character... but it is WAAAAAAAAYYY too late to complain now so yeah.

Your logic is off. Nobody likes Gardevoir. Everyone likes Lucario. That's why he's playable in Brawl (and FYI, he doesn't suck, or else I wouldn't main him).

 

[Boo Mansion]

If he has an invisibility dodge in brawl, it wouldn't give him an advantage at all.

It would fit the whole "psychic type" Pokèmon thing and it could mess with people's minds in a very minor way.

 

[ssbkid~]

It would be cool if the disable actually stopped your opponent from using the last move he used for a moment, while at the same time having some decent knock back.
It would be awesome for edgeguarding.
Or would that be too broken?

EX:Marth tries to recover using Up+b.....Mewtwo successfully lands a disable and marth is blown away slightly yet is unable to recover now because His up b move is disabled.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

that would be broken. lol doing that on spacies :D

 

[bobson]

Disable shouldn't be an issue, should it? Deku Nut is an example of something that can already automatically put a person into their "shield broken" state, and it would work mechanically the same as a modified Sing (although making it have knockback only when the enemy is stunned or in a tumble already as it was in Melee may prove difficult).

I don't want Disable to be changed. It was a neat mindgame move and it can easily be balanced by modifying how safe it is to throw out VS how long the enemy stays stunned. I wouldn't mind switching it to side-B and Confusion to down-B, though, depending on what we replacing Confusion with.

Low-lag non-freefall Teleport sounds awesome and I fully support it.

Giving Mewtwo only a directional airdodge seems like a pretty stupid if not downright impossible concept. He should definitely retain his disappearing animation, though.

Confusion would be confusing to program and a big waste of time to reimplement, and any buffs to it so you could guarantee a hit from it would just make it Disable With a Different Animation (including making the opponent trip). A decent amount of the replacements discussed so far could be good; I favor Recover in particular, especially one of the implementations stingers suggested. And no, direct recovery moves are not broken by default. There's no reason, when properly balanced, that they have to break the game.

Any type of replacement we do decide on for Confusion shouldn't be a projectile, as Mewtwo already has Shadow Ball and shouldn't be a projectile-reliant character. Some type of move that charges itself naturally as the match progresses like Wario's waft would be neat; I'm thinking an implementation of Return in the form of a quick attack that hits in a circular perimeter around Mewtwo, and as the match progresses its range and power get larger. Other neat ideas are Taunt (causes the opponent to lose the ability to use special moves for awhile), Secret Power (randomly causes some type of effect like flowered, buried or frozen), Reflect (obvious), Skill Swap (takes the side/down B of the opponent a la Kirby's swallow), Fling (tosses picked up projectiles with extra force and damage), Amnesia (causes you to take less knockback/damage for a time period), and Sleep Talk (basic physical move that can be used when you're stunned or asleep).

Why should fthrow necessarily be changed? Replacing it with some type of Swift sounds neat, but mechanically we already have a way to spawn projectiles during a throw (Falco's, Fox's), so I don't see why it needs to be replaced. Regardless, it's not exactly his most iconic move, so replacing it wouldn't be a big loss. As far as how the move works, I say it should be Mewtwo's most damaging throw, to offset it from uthrow for killing, dthrow for combos and bthrow for positioning. Homing Swift stars seems like a good way to guarantee that damage as well as make it a unique move and possibly set up for a combo while the opponent is still stunned by the stars.

As far as his Final Smash goes, we don't really know what we'll be able to do with PSA for final smashes yet, so the safer guesses would be the attacks one of the legendary Pokemon from the Pokeballs, like Lugia's or Deoxys'. If we have enough power, any of Mewtwo's big, powerful attacks that can either hit one opponent hard or cause mass destruction across the stage could be used: Thunder, Blizzard, Focus Blast, Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Fire Blast, Avalanche, just to name a few. It could also be an adaptation of stage or item effects, like slowing down time for all the other players or reversing the other players' controls. If we can get fancy enough, something that literally allows him to control his opponent psychically would be amazing.

I'm not sure if we can keep his quirky double jump mechanics, but that would also be a good feature.

He should definitely be a floaty heavy a la Samus. Being his size AND lightweight is a completely bull**** weakness.

 

[Slashy]

Can his final smash be something that messes with the other players?

i.e. screwing up button inputs.

 

[codfish92]

probably not since that would also mess up the player's button inputs.

 

[JOE!]

perhaps his down B could be that bubble he uses in the 1st pokemon movie? (switch disable to side B)

Essentially, it could work kindof like a spacey refletor: instead of actually reflecting however, it creates an actual barrier around Mewtwo, with some nice KB if an opponent is directly on him when it activates, then gives mewtwo decent SA for a time while it is out, letting him tank up to say, 15% worth of damage in a single hit while the barrier is up.

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

If he has an invisibility dodge in brawl, it wouldn't give him an advantage at all.

Read my post before, I fully realize that it won't have the confusing effect it had back in Melee, but it may be useful as a quick disorientation move, and everybody seems to like the idea anyways.

 

[colored blind]

I favor Recover in particular, especially one of the implementations stingers suggested. And no, direct recovery moves are not broken by default. There's no reason, when properly balanced, that they have to break the game.

No, but it'd be boring. It adds nothing special to his gameplay, and the only way it'd be balanced is if it only worked with a big enough startup, which means you'd probably only use it after a KO, and then it's just like the opponent did 20% less to you or whatever. It's unique, but ultimately does nothing for Mewtwo in the way that he plays, except for maybe forcing approaches on characters without projectiles. And he already has Shadow Ball for that purpose.

Final Smash should be Hyper Beam. In keeping with Mewtwo's status of the 'omfgbroken' Pokemon of the first generation, Hyper Beam was definitely the 'omfgdestroyed' move of that generation. Either that or throw them all together, kind of like Triple Finish. As we saw in the first movie, Mewtwo can control weather.

As for jumps, I think we could probably just do something similar to the Mother boys.

If Confusion is going to be changed, I still think either Barrier or Psycho Cut are the best options.

I think the new thing I want most is for Teleport to be a major point of his gameplay, like SF's Bison. I think even if this isn't implemented, it should be a major topic of discussion at the moment because it would radically alter the way he plays. However, I think it'd be very much in keeping of his essence as the weirdest and trickiest Pokemon you'll ever fight. Also, it makes up for him be terribly slow (which I assume we're still keeping). So at the very least, we should discuss his Teleport putting him into freefall or not and if it should have really low endlag or not.

A double Teleport if the first one's grounded would be awesome. It could lead to things like teleport above opponent, then to behind/in front of them. But this discussion is for after we come to agreement about whether or not his Teleport will even be used like this.

EDIT: Invisibility dodge just means we have less to animate, plus it's badass, even if it's relatively useless.

 

[Wavedash Master]

It seems everybody is in agreement with no freefall with Mewtwo's up + B (doesn't mean he needs it necessarily, I think this needs to be discussed further). I'll come on later to discuss disable and confusion. Also, I'm starting to have a feeling that forward throw can probably be created (several people mentioned fox's and falco's throws, which had projectiles). So I suggest we keep on disable and confusion until we have a final decision.

 

[jalued]

Confusion would be confusing to program and a big waste of time to reimplement, and any buffs to it so you could guarantee a hit from it would just make it Disable With a Different Animation (including making the opponent trip). A decent amount of the replacements discussed so far could be good; I favor Recover in particular, especially one of the implementations stingers suggested. And no, direct recovery moves are not broken by default. There's no reason, when properly balanced, that they have to break the game.

Any type of replacement we do decide on for Confusion shouldn't be a projectile, as Mewtwo already has Shadow Ball and shouldn't be a projectile-reliant character. Some type of move that charges itself naturally as the match progresses like Wario's waft would be neat; I'm thinking an implementation of Return in the form of a quick attack that hits in a circular perimeter around Mewtwo, and as the match progresses its range and power get larger. Other neat ideas are Taunt (causes the opponent to lose the ability to use special moves for awhile), Secret Power (randomly causes some type of effect like flowered, buried or frozen), Reflect (obvious), Skill Swap (takes the side/down B of the opponent a la Kirby's swallow), Fling (tosses picked up projectiles with extra force and damage), Amnesia (causes you to take less knockback/damage for a time period), and Sleep Talk (basic physical move that can be used when you're stunned or asleep).

-"return" does sound viable, but also doesnt really fit mew2 as a character (think psychic, broken and can learn anything he wants to)

- taunt would be BROKEN lol

- secret power does sound cool,would be cool, but not sure how the hitbox would be, would i be a sphere around him like a purple mini weegee FS that anyone inside gets effected? would be ok, but still quite defensive

reflect is a nice idea, and could be made very unique, but again its not very aggressive and just kinda..yawn

skill swap would be amazing, just make it sideB move (im thinking ganons choke ) and would be set. prob impossible to program though (if possible i support this)

amnesia wouldnt help, would just mean u got comboed more

sleep talk would be BROKEN

that is all

 

[V-K]

Hey, what about giving him the possibility to glide like Peach?
That would at least make sense.

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

Speaking of jumps and glides, what would be really cool (But probably difficult to implement) is instead of giving Mewtwo jumps, when you push up on the control stick, it lifts Mewtwo off the ground, and you can tilt the control stick left and right to make Mewtwo move left and right in the air. Obviously so it wouldn't be broken, Mewtwo can only freely move in the air for so long before dropping down normally. I think this ability could really open up Mewtwo's aerial combat and make him a deadly aerial comboer, it would also fit with Mewtwo's character, since you never see him walk, only float.

 

[jalued]

Speaking of jumps and glides, what would be really cool (But probably difficult to implement) is instead of giving Mewtwo jumps, when you push up on the control stick, it lifts Mewtwo off the ground, and you can tilt the control stick left and right to make Mewtwo move left and right in the air. Obviously so it wouldn't be broken, Mewtwo can only freely move in the air for so long before dropping down normally. I think this ability could really open up Mewtwo's aerial combat and make him a deadly aerial comboer, it would also fit with Mewtwo's character, since you never see him walk, only float.

so he's now peach....

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

so he's now peach....

Peach can only move sideways in the air, and still has normal jumps. In my idea, Mewtwo wouldn't have any normal jumps, but his 'hover' can allow him to move upwards and downwards.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Peach can only move sideways in the air, and still has normal jumps. In my idea, Mewtwo wouldn't have any normal jumps, but his 'hover' can allow him to move upwards and downwards.

i want you to stop, breath, and TRY to make a character that won't be broken as ****. EVERYTHING this project has started saying recently has been going in the 'omgbroken' direction. even assuming that this project goes anywhere, you're making a character that will be nigh unstoppable. recover? really? and no freefall after up b? that was ADDED to B+ to help lucario's bad recovery. if you're giving Mewtwo zelda's recovery then why the **** would he need it?

and then you start talking about floating? UP AND DOWN FLOATING!? how can you honestly justify that something like that isn't going to break a character?

now, i say thins because i would like to see mewtwo brought back despite knowing he won't. but even if you do manage to fulfill your entire plan, this... this isn't mewtwo. this is an uber fan character that will dominate everything... no, no this isn't even close to making an even character...

 

[phate]

I hate to be the negative nancy but is there any purpose to this topic? The guy who started it doesn't even know how to work on this "project" that isn't even possible at this time. A lot of the ideas in this thread are just a bunch of dreams that random people are putting in because they think it would be cool. I honestly don't believe that those who possess the ability to make progress on the implementation of Mewtwo would waste their time reading this. I don't get why everyone is so quick to give their opinions on what Mewtwo should be because these decisions will be made by the people who actually work on it. An interesting discussion but at this point this is useless speculation... But I guess that's pretty normal for Brawl players.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I hate to be the negative nancy but is there any purpose to this topic? The guy who started it doesn't even know how to work on this "project" that isn't even possible at this time. A lot of the ideas in this thread are just a bunch of dreams that random people are putting in because they think it would be cool. I honestly don't believe that those who possess the ability to make progress on the implementation of Mewtwo would waste their time reading this. I don't get why everyone is so quick to give their opinions on what Mewtwo should be because these decisions will be made by the people who actually work on it. An interesting discussion but at this point this is useless speculation... But I guess that's pretty normal for Brawl players.

thank you. i told him this when he first posted it in the B+ thread and he told me that if i wasn't going to help then stfu. i knew from the beginning that this wasn't going to happen.

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

i want you to stop, breath, and TRY to make a character that won't be broken as ****. EVERYTHING this project has started saying recently has been going in the 'omgbroken' direction. even assuming that this project goes anywhere, you're making a character that will be nigh unstoppable. recover? really? and no freefall after up b? that was ADDED to B+ to help lucario's bad recovery. if you're giving Mewtwo zelda's recovery then why the **** would he need it?

and then you start talking about floating? UP AND DOWN FLOATING!? how can you honestly justify that something like that isn't going to break a character?

now, i say thins because i would like to see mewtwo brought back despite knowing he won't. but even if you do manage to fulfill your entire plan, this... this isn't mewtwo. this is an uber fan character that will dominate everything... no, no this isn't even close to making an even character...

I know you'll probably say that wasn't just directed at me, but since you quoted me...

1) I never suggested the Recover move.
2) I never suggested no freefall after Up B.
3) I never suggested making Mewtwo's teleport the same range as Zelda's, I don't think I've even seen anyone talked about the range of Mewtwo's teleport until you just mentioned it.
4) I never started this plan (Obivously), yes while I did come up with the idea of full directional hovering, every single other idea was made up by someone else.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I know you'll probably say that wasn't just directed at me, but since you quoted me...

1) I never suggested the Recover move.
2) I never suggested no freefall after Up B.
3) I never suggested making Mewtwo's teleport the same range as Zelda's, I don't think I've even seen anyone talked about the range of Mewtwo's teleport until you just mentioned it.
4) I never started this plan (Obivously), yes while I did come up with the idea of full directional hovering, every single other idea was made up by someone else.

the first 3 were directed at the topic in general. what i was directing at you was the stupidity of the hovering idea.

 

[Shadowmaster9000]

Even if it were slow short ranged hovering?

Wait why did I just post that? At this rate, you'll think anything to do with the ability is stupid. It's obvious you're thinking that this entire topic is pointless.

Also if people are going to allow for other people's input (Especially on populated forums), you have to expect that some people will post far-fetched or stupid ideas.

 

[Wavedash Master]

I hate to be the negative nancy but is there any purpose to this topic? The guy who started it doesn't even know how to work on this "project" that isn't even possible at this time. A lot of the ideas in this thread are just a bunch of dreams that random people are putting in because they think it would be cool. I honestly don't believe that those who possess the ability to make progress on the implementation of Mewtwo would waste their time reading this. I don't get why everyone is so quick to give their opinions on what Mewtwo should be because these decisions will be made by the people who actually work on it. An interesting discussion but at this point this is useless speculation... But I guess that's pretty normal for Brawl players.

Ok, the only reason I started this project is because I knew in the future character creation is going to be possible. Even if you believe no ones going to bother implementation of Mewtwo, I do. I'll frickin learn what I need to do to get this to work (Project SA, codeset mods etc.). Granted, I don't expect this to get done in the next 6 months or even a year. I'm simply trying to set up a moveset that would fit for him in Brawl. It's not my fault that people are just making up dream moves. I will do my best to cut through the crap and get the good, well thought out ideas in them. I intend for this to get done, but it first needs planning. Please do understand.

 

[Shadic]

i want you to stop, breath, and TRY to make a character that won't be broken as ****. EVERYTHING this project has started saying recently has been going in the 'omgbroken' direction. even assuming that this project goes anywhere, you're making a character that will be nigh unstoppable. recover? really? and no freefall after up b? that was ADDED to B+ to help lucario's bad recovery. if you're giving Mewtwo zelda's recovery then why the **** would he need it?

and then you start talking about floating? UP AND DOWN FLOATING!? how can you honestly justify that something like that isn't going to break a character?

now, i say thins because i would like to see mewtwo brought back despite knowing he won't. but even if you do manage to fulfill your entire plan, this... this isn't mewtwo. this is an uber fan character that will dominate everything... no, no this isn't even close to making an even character...

Have you stopped to consider that this is just an idea conglomeration for the time being? It's not like everything suggested is going to be put in, or even considered. There's this strange concept of brainstorming. Besides, Brawl+ originally had L canceling and Melee Airdodge.. Some ideas needs to be bounced against before any progress can be made.

 

[CountKaiser]

Frozenpopo, Lucario having no freefall after upB was not a recovery buff, but instead an offense buff. The wbr stated this themselves.

Also, it is a known fact that project SA is an eventuality, so if nothing else, the moves can be recreated. Model hacking, however, is another story.

 

[phate]

What I don't understand is why you take a position you are not fit to fill. I believe in due time people will take it upon themselves to implement Mewtwo but this topic is arrogant and out of whack. This is not a project. This is speculation. Instead of treating it like that you are assuming the position of a leader when you are blind to how this will be done. Take it easy you aren't the only one who wants Mewtwo in the game and I would leave up to the people who know their way around computers to accomplish it.

 

[bobson]

No stupid gliding ****. It's not even possible to do without breaking the game, let alone how dumb an idea it is. We want Mewtwo, not... whatever the hell kind of character moves like that. He should still be the same character, just better.

i want you to stop, breath, and TRY to make a character that won't be broken as ****. EVERYTHING this project has started saying recently has been going in the 'omgbroken' direction. even assuming that this project goes anywhere, you're making a character that will be nigh unstoppable. recover? really? and no freefall after up b? that was ADDED to B+ to help lucario's bad recovery. if you're giving Mewtwo zelda's recovery then why the **** would he need it?

Recover and an up-B without freefall (looking at you, ROB) are fine when balanced, and what idiot suggested Teleport have Zelda's range? I don't remember anyone saying that.

I hate to be the negative nancy but is there any purpose to this topic? The guy who started it doesn't even know how to work on this "project" that isn't even possible at this time. A lot of the ideas in this thread are just a bunch of dreams that random people are putting in because they think it would be cool. I honestly don't believe that those who possess the ability to make progress on the implementation of Mewtwo would waste their time reading this. I don't get why everyone is so quick to give their opinions on what Mewtwo should be because these decisions will be made by the people who actually work on it. An interesting discussion but at this point this is useless speculation... But I guess that's pretty normal for Brawl players.

The point is to brainstorm for when it is possible, so we won't get some broken half-***** one-man job when someone tries to make Mewtwo's moveset. If it's organized enough and backed up by enough people, this thread can be used to put together a proper, balanced character deserving of the roster instead of one guy's fangasm.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Frozenpopo, Lucario having no freefall after upB was not a recovery buff, but instead an offense buff. The wbr stated this themselves.

my point being zelda's recovery is good enough that it doesn't need to not enter freefall.

 

[CountKaiser]

Wait, Mewtwo's recovery was going to have a hitbox?

I wasn't aware. I thought only the animation was being used.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Recover and an up-B without freefall (looking at you, ROB) are fine when balanced, and what idiot suggested Teleport have Zelda's range? I don't remember anyone saying that.

here...

I think Samus's Dair is a better fit.
Here is a full list (minus moves I can't remember off-hand). Obviously some need to be modified

Nair: Combination of Lucas + Lucario
Fair: Wolf
Bair: Yoshi
Dair: Samus
Uair: Diddy

F-smash: Mario (if I remember the move correctly)
U-smash: Samus
D-smash: ZSS

B: Lucario
Side-B:
Up-B: Zelda
Down-B:

Jab:
Ftilt: Yoshi
Utilt:
Dtilt: Pikachu
Dash: Zelda

B-throw: Ness
F-throw: Falco's B-throw?
U-throw: Ness?
D-throw: ZSS?

and here...

B: Instead of Shadow ball/Aura Sphere > Ice Beam (Rob Laser with Ice propriety)
Side-B: PsyWave (Ray gun effect with ROB Final Smash laser animation)
Up-B: Zelda (agree)
Down-B: Thunder Wave stun enemy like ZSS but without damage

and just about any other time somebody made a list... you know, not any place anybody would notice. you want more? because there's a **** load more lists that list zelda's up b.


and i want to say now, phate is 100% correct. you can try to justify this as 'organizing ideas' but at the end of the day its not going to work.

 

[bobson]

Wait, Mewtwo's recovery was going to have a hitbox?

No no no, no hitbox. Imagine Falco's side B without any lag. Yeah.

stuff

The lists were quite clearly just grabbing stuff that would be similar to Mewtwo's original moveset (pointlessly, I might add), not suggestions that the moves should work exactly like those.

I would like to note that I'll be working on recreating Mewtwo's moveset the second PSA is available to the public. Modeling is beyond me at this point, but I have 3DSMax, minor experience in animation, and a good eye, so importing a model from a different game and reworking it for Brawl is not too farfetched of a prospect.

 

[phate]

The point is to brainstorm for when it is possible, so we won't get some broken half-***** one-man job when someone tries to make Mewtwo's moveset. If it's organized enough and backed up by enough people, this thread can be used to put together a proper, balanced character deserving of the roster instead of one guy's fangasm.

I fail to see this organization you are talking about. I just see a front page in pretty colored text and a plethora of random ideas. Again I would have to ask if the people who make Mewtwo will consult this topic or any part of the general community for that matter for ideas.

 

[bobson]

I fail to see this organization you are talking about. I just see a front page in pretty colored text and a plethora of random ideas. Again I would have to ask if the people who make Mewtwo will consult this topic or any part of the general community for that matter for ideas.

Yeah, the OP is just ******* around at this point, but he looks motivated at the very least, and as long as everything is in one thread it can be reviewed fairly simply.

And

I would like to note that I'll be working on recreating Mewtwo's moveset the second PSA is available to the public. Modeling is beyond me at this point, but I have 3DSMax, minor experience in animation, and a good eye, so importing a model from a different game and reworking it for Brawl is not too farfetched of a prospect.

 

[V-K]

Why no gliding?
I was always wondering why Peach can do this and Mewtwo can´t.
But anyway if nobody wants it...