Pokemon Trainer (Red!) Discussion

[Yuna]

Captain Falcon wasn't just a race driver. He was a bounty hunter of whatever. Red is some puny little kid who's probably never done anything besides throw pokéballs around in his life. It's like throwing in that Marlene kid from FFVII.

Red didn't even do that much. We never heard him speak or try to communicate with anyone. He didn't do anything besides walk around, ride a bike, ride pokémon, catch pokémon and train them.

And do I have to remind you of the stupidity of a Pokémon trainer in SSBB? You'd have some weird moveset based on summoning Pokémon by teleporting them in (that or the moves would be worthless because the Pokémon would have to come out the Pokéballs, go back and then he'll have to pick the Pokéballs up (and what if the balls fly off the edge of the stage?).

 

[Lemming 1545]

I now feel the need to remind you, Yuna, of the stupidity of presenting your opinion as an undisputable fact. You might think it's a dumb idea, but there's obviously other people who don't.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Captain Falcon wasn't just a race driver. He was a bounty hunter of whatever. Red is some puny little kid who's probably never done anything besides throw pokéballs around in his life. It's like throwing in that Marlene kid from FFVII.

Red didn't even do that much. We never heard him speak or try to communicate with anyone. He didn't do anything besides walk around, ride a bike, ride pokémon, catch pokémon and train them.

And do I have to remind you of the stupidity of a Pokémon trainer in SSBB? You'd have some weird moveset based on summoning Pokémon by teleporting them in (that or the moves would be worthless because the Pokémon would have to come out the Pokéballs, go back and then he'll have to pick the Pokéballs up (and what if the balls fly off the edge of the stage?).

May I remind you that that is alot like how Jill Valentine fights in MvC2. She summons Zombies.

He doesn't have to pick them back up. They could disappear just like the Pokeball items, and the Pokemon could just disappear in a puff of smoke like the Pokemon in the pokeball items. Remember that this is a video game, and thus adheres to "Nintendo Logic." Mushrooms make you grow, Physics goes by it's own rules, and having wings or a cape automatically makes you fly no questions asked.

If the pokeball goes off the edge, use another one. That simple. Stop applying real life physics to video games. If you insist at making his moves super slow, you would simply make them have insane KB and Damage.

See my sig for details.

 

[ilabb]

Here, Yuna, let me just stick this funnel in my ear so you may proceed to bash your biased opinions directly into my BRAIN as fact.

And do I have to remind you of the stupidity of a Pokémon trainer in SSBB? You'd have some weird moveset based on summoning Pokémon by teleporting them in (that or the moves would be worthless because the Pokémon would have to come out the Pokéballs, go back and then he'll have to pick the Pokéballs up (and what if the balls fly off the edge of the stage?).

And this is why you don't work on this game. You have no imagination. Who said he HAS to use Pokemon in his moves? He can use his key items like the Super rod and throw empty Pokeballs in a turnip fashion (no trainer is without at least 10 extra balls just in case some random shiny Pokemon shows up).

And Captain Falcon was a bounty hunter, huh? That doesn't give him a moveset for HAL to pull out of their behind. Just because it was said that he's a bounty hunter, that doesn't change the fact that in every one of his games, all he does is DRIVE A CAR. He's hardly in the game because he's a bounty hunter, he's in the game because he's the main character of a popular Nintendo game. Doesn't this scenerio sound familiar now?

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Red didn't even do that much. We never heard him speak or try to communicate with anyone. He didn't do anything besides walk around, ride a bike, ride pokémon, catch pokémon and train them.

I don't remember seeing Doctor Mario, Shiek, Zelda, Peach, Falcon doing any fighting in their games.

 

[dotdotdot!]

He also threw rocks in the Safari Zone. That sorta counts as fighting. More than Falcon's racing anyway.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Captain Falcon wasn't just a race driver. He was a bounty hunter of whatever. Red is some puny little kid who's probably never done anything besides throw pokéballs around in his life. It's like throwing in that Marlene kid from FFVII.

Red didn't even do that much. We never heard him speak or try to communicate with anyone. He didn't do anything besides walk around, ride a bike, ride pokémon, catch pokémon and train them.

And do I have to remind you of the stupidity of a Pokémon trainer in SSBB? You'd have some weird moveset based on summoning Pokémon by teleporting them in (that or the moves would be worthless because the Pokémon would have to come out the Pokéballs, go back and then he'll have to pick the Pokéballs up (and what if the balls fly off the edge of the stage?).

Just wanted to ask you when was the last time most Nintendo characters have communicated with anyone. You know why Link doesn't talk? Because he's supposed to represent you and your thoughts. In Kirby's storyline, Kirby just nods and accepts his mission, he doesn't speak or communicate with anyone. Ness, Mario, Samus...all the same. =/

 

[Master WGS]

My GOD, lighten up people...

Here's the thing. In my OPINION (NOT FACT), Red, Ash, Purple, whateverthecrap, wouldn't work, because some Pokemon are already in the game. What sense does it make to have a trainer fight against Pokemon?

Now, I'll admit, the post where his moveset was summoning different pokes, that wasn't half bad. However, with Pokemon already being in the game, it just wouldn't work... I'm sorry to say, but this may be the most unlikely of all the suggestions thus far... If things were different already, it might've worked out, but as of now, I can't see this ending well.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Just wanted to ask you when was the last time most Nintendo characters have communicated with anyone. You know why Link doesn't talk? Because he's supposed to represent you and your thoughts. In Kirby's storyline, Kirby just nods and accepts his mission, he doesn't speak or communicate with anyone. Ness, Mario, Samus...all the same. =/

Not that i'm against you, but Samus spoke in Metroid Fusion, and Mario characters talk quite a bit (Though Mario and Luigi seem only capable of speaking to eachother in gibberish and saying their own names). You do have a point about Link and Kirby.

 

[ilabb]

What sense does it make to have a trainer fight against Pokemon?

What business does Mario have fighting Peach? You know, the person he has to save in like every game.

Case in point.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Not that i'm against you, but Samus spoke in Metroid Fusion, and Mario characters talk quite a bit (Though Mario and Luigi seem only capable of speaking to eachother in gibberish and saying their own names). You do have a point about Link and Kirby.

Ah, my mistake. I haven't really played many of the new Metroid games, only the old ones. ^^; I said that Mario and Luigi didn't really talk because...well, yeah they say their own names and a few noises and that's about it. Link said "Come on!" and a few battle cries in Wind Waker, but Red is similar to all of these characters in that the player has to imagine what he would say.

 

[Rowe]

For the people who think the trainers are weak: Trainers go across the world for pokemon. They walk or bike EVERYWHERE (until they get FLY), climb mountains and other terrain etc. So these kids are pretty tough.

 

[Hyper-Link]

Ya but Ash actually had a voice on TV, therefor it'd be easy. Not to mention people that never talked like Game and Watch would be easy to place a voice. Than people like Kirby/Link that do talk, but just make sounds. because people are used to the battle cries and what not, and having them talk would be weird.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Wow. The more I read about the possibilities of a Pokemon trainer character, the better it sounds. At first I was skeptical, but now I would go as far to say that "Red" (Or Brendan from R/S/E) would join the Prince, Dan Hibiki, Phoenix Wright, and R.O.B the robot as my underdog picks for characters that have little chance to get in, but sound really cool to play.

 

[xianfeng]

I don't remember seeing Doctor Mario, Shiek, Zelda, Peach, Falcon doing any fighting in their games.

Peach fought in Super Mario Bros 2, Super Princess Peach and I think that she could join your party in Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, Paper Mario the thousand year door and I think taht she will be playable in Super Paper Mario, all of which she fought in.

 

[Ippius]

Ummmm...One thing...WHat moveset could he have? Pokeballs are items. They won't be incorporated into moves.

 

[xianfeng]

Ummmm...One thing...WHat moveset could he have? Pokeballs are items. They won't be incorporated into moves.

How do you know?
are you one of the developers working on SSBB?
Have you got connections with the production team of SSBB?

 

[MAtgSy]

Ummmm...One thing...WHat moveset could he have? Pokeballs are items. They won't be incorporated into moves.

Ray Gun=Fox's & Falco's B
Bom-bomb=Link's vB
Fire Flower=Bowser's B
Screw Ball=Samus' ^B
Baseball bat=Ness' smash
Super Scope=Samus' & Mewtwo's B
Parasol=Peach's ^B

Why would the Poke'ball be any different from those? & he's still got other items to use: the fishing rods, the bike, the smoke balls, etc.

 

[Nigguh-witta-attitude]

unlike most of thesepeople (Not all of them) I have nothing agaisnt pokemon, BUT HELL NO!!!!!

 

[Black/Light]

unlike most of thesepeople (Not all of them) I have nothing agaisnt pokemon, BUT HELL NO!!!!!

LOL, I would have said that too before I read some of these post...but now I just say it's unlikely but I would be O.K if it happened...still don't want him in....

 

[phatJacob07]

dotdotdot!... I must say, I love you.

Seriously people, what the hell is wrong with you all?

"LOL poke trainrs r gay they suxkzor no puttng them in1!!!1!1"

I don't know why people are so **** vehement about a Pokémon Trainer being in Smash Bros. Get a grip, and stop the hating.

And to whomever said that Red didn't try to communicate... uh, hello? You never saw him speak, but he freaking talked to NPCs throughout the entire game.

[/anger]

Now, to the good stuff :3.

Well...even if I don't entirely agree to put Red in Smash, I will have some fun coming up with ideas. First off, I hope they make him the new version from GBA. Red looks great in the remakes. Some of his moveset could be items like super rod, pokeflute(dunno what it would do) and bike. His smash moves could be quick HMs done by pokemon like Strength, Flash, Cut, Fly etc...It would be interesting. That is for sure.

HMs are exactly what I was thinking, but he wouldn't require a Pokémon to do them with; after all, on the overworld, they just happened :D.

 

[SmashBroPro]

I think you make a decent argumet, but I would vote no. There are literally dozens of characters I would rather play than Red, heck there are dozens of pokemon I would rather play. This is all subjective of course, but I just don't feel any enthusiasm at the prospect of playing Red.

 

[ROBERT2K95]

It won't really be that good,but I saw some good points but the attacks and moves were not so good. So for me its a no.

 

[Smashing Good Time]

YEAH! Maybe he could trap people in Poke'balls, like Yoshi with eggs, for his down-b though. They would name it Ash instead of Red. I think it would be a great charachter. His clone could be Gary.

 

[DokturSea]

Oh yes, most definatly. I support this idea. I even thought up a movset for him, which DOESN'T revolve around Pokeballs.

B -Pokeball: Yep. Easy enough. Red pulls out a Pokeball from his pack and carries it around with him until B is hit again. It does minor damage, but has some knockback and can be useful for spacing yourself from your opponent.

Forward B - Bicycle: Red hops on his bike and rides quickly in the direction you tilt the control stick. Much like Yoshi's Egg Roll, only faster and little more powerful. It sends the foe horizantally in the direction that you are traveling. It lasts a second or two before ending or if the player lets go of the B button. It has almost no "wind-up" time, but has quite a lag whenB is released.

Down B - Fishing Rod: Red whips out his fishing rod and slams it into the ground in front of him. In the air, he will swing it down, where it will stay as he falls quickly towards the ground. If a foe is hit by the fishing rod, they are sent far horizantally.

Up B - Fly: Red does the original "Fly" technique graphic from Red and Blue versions of his game; he turns into a generic Bird-like Pokemon and flys upwards a short distance. After a few flaps, he changed back. If anyone is in the way, they geth it and are given substantial damage.

Super Move - Master Ball: Red pulls out a Master Ball (a Pokeball that can capture ANYTHING) and throws it. It captures an opponent (much like Link and Kirby's Super) and Red begins to abuse it, ie Bounce it, kick it, throw it. As he does, the opponent in the ball gets major damage.

Taunt: Red faces the camera, smirks, puts one hand on his hip, and uses the other to twirl a Pokeball on one finger.

Of course, Red would look totally kick ***. His baseball cap would keep his eyes in shadow at all times and he'd never talk, just like in the games.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Good moveset. Also, if you want more "Capture" moves, his throws could fit the bill. A long-range throw like Samus or Link, except with a Pokeball. If the character is caught, it flies back to Red, and can be thrown and abused.

 

[Stryks]

No bad idea, no HUMAN characters from pokemon games could fit in brawl.

 

[xianfeng]

No bad idea, no HUMAN characters from pokemon games could fit in brawl.

anyone could fit in Brawl look at snake he fits in perfectly despite the fact that he is like some big killer guy person (I've never played a MGS game)

 

[Silpheed]

Well, I like this idea more than whats on this first page in the forum alone, BUT having this in kinda hinders him having character. I mean, theres no alternative to just him becoming a means to hurl pokeballs. The asthetics of making him in some way playable are impossible. "Red" lacks any fighting ability whatsoever, and his only real defense/offense is his Pokemon, which we HAVE that aspect covered already.

Basicly, theres no real way to make him work. Thats why we have the ability to play as actual POKEMON.

 

[commonyoshi]

If Red could fight, he wouldn't need pokemon. Ouch, pwned.

 

[Shadow Calibur]

Meh, I prefer May over Red.

 

[dotdotdot!]

If Red could fight, he wouldn't need pokemon. Ouch, pwned.

If Peach could fight, she wouldn't need Mario... oh wait...

 

[DokturSea]

Well, I like this idea more than whats on this first page in the forum alone, BUT having this in kinda hinders him having character. I mean, theres no alternative to just him becoming a means to hurl pokeballs. The asthetics of making him in some way playable are impossible. "Red" lacks any fighting ability whatsoever, and his only real defense/offense is his Pokemon, which we HAVE that aspect covered already.

Basicly, theres no real way to make him work. Thats why we have the ability to play as actual POKEMON.

Did you read my moveset at all? And that's not a good excuse for a character not making it. Could Dr. Mario fight before Melee? No. Could C.Falcon? No. Could Zelda? No. Could Mr. Game & Watch? No. You people act as though the world of Super Smash Brothers is hindered in some way. It isn't.

 

[MAtgSy]

1. "Doesn't fit in SSB" is an oxymoron.

2. Red is a main character in his series & is really all that matters.

3. I don't think a moveset based on summoning poke'mon will work because it would infringe on Olimar's gimmick no doubt.

4. Replace the Poke'ball with a Safari Zone rock as the B move.

 

[toasty4you]

No, the idea of it is making me curl into a ball.

 

[DainBramaged]

Red= No chance in H*ll,

im pretty sure if poeple want someone from the POKEMON series, it will at least be a P-O-K-E-M-O-N, lets just go ahead and add the tactician you control in fire emblem ( and summon random fire emblem poeple,ohhhhhh) , or maby the spirit in Baitin Kaitos( and summon spirit attacks, ohhhhhh) ,
( MAJOR SARCASM)

 

[Drosumn]

I mentioned this in another topic, but ill repeat it here:

Pidgey on shoulder, other pokemon at heel
UpB - Pidgey lifts upward, can be used to hit opponent with beak.
SmashB - Pulls bike from backpack and thrusts forward
DownB - Pokemon Switch, pokemon at heel rotates between Charmander, Squirtle and Bulbasaur
B - Pokemon attack, Squirtle charges up a withdraw to headbutt (slow, high damage), bulbasaur leech seeds (lobing projectile, takes off % over time, can be added together with mulitple seeds), charmander flamethrows (quick projectile attack)

A attacks would all be based on the pokemon (quick claw strykes for charmander, long reaching vinewhips for Bulbasaur, slow bubble and headbutts for squirtle)

I personally like this idea for his moves. I think it's really good.

A neutral - A quick kick
A neutral continued - Similar to Fox's a move, just keep kicking.
F tilt - A long kick like Mario's f tilt
Up tilt - A peck from Pidgey
Down tilt - A little roundhouse kick, like CF's.
F smash - All three pokemon at his heels perform tackle attack.
U Smash - He tosses Squirtle into the air in his shell form
D Smash - Bulbasaur's vines do a sweepaing attack on both sides
Fair - Charmander uses small bursts of flame I.E. Samus' Fair
Bair - Charmander swipes with his tail I.E. Mewtwo's Bair
Dair - A quick stomp down, spikes but not very strong. I.E. CF weakened
Uair - Pidgey pecks rapidly, enabling multiple hits I.E. Samus' Uair
Just to give my own opinion on the B moves...
Up B - Pidgey flaps wings, providing some lift for the trainer, if contact with players occurs, Pidgey slaps them with it's wings. I.E. G&W much less height
Neutral B - Throws a stone like in the Safari Zone
Down B - Switch Pokemon
Smash B - Pokemon executes move.
Charmander - Fire Blast (I think is what the move was called) Similar to Falcon's punch, but in that little shape thing.
Bulbasaur - Solarbeam, charges up, and then unleashes a bright ball of energy. I.E Samus
Squirtle - Surf, makes a small tidal wave that surges forward. I.E. Thel ittle wave thing that Kirby does after using his Up B.
Dash attack - Pulls out bike and rams into opponents I.E. Kirby's dash
Throws
Grab - Tosses out a pokeball, capturing the enemy inside it, and it returns to him if successful. If not, he looks at it, and it disappears. The same lag as Link's Grapple or Samus' Grapple.
Grab attack - Shakes the pokeball.
Up throw - Unleashes them upward, providing a little damage. I.E. Samus' Up throw
Down Throw - Slams the pokeball down onto the floor.
F throw - Tosses, and punts the pokeball, kicking the button as he does so, sending them through the air.
B Throw - Tosses it behind him, and Squirtle "alley-oop" tail slaps it through the air, nailing the button with his tail.

My opinion.

Also, we are designing these characters as if they were for Melee. Sure the game mechanics are going to be similar, but who is to say if they won't change? Give it some room people.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Red= No chance in H*ll,

im pretty sure if poeple want someone from the POKEMON series, it will at least be a P-O-K-E-M-O-N, lets just go ahead and add the tactician you control in fire emblem ( and summon random fire emblem poeple,ohhhhhh) , or maby the spirit in Baitin Kaitos( and summon spirit attacks, ohhhhhh) ,
( MAJOR SARCASM)

The tactician you play as in Fire Emblem is Marth. He's the main guy who is basically calling the shots. FE is a bad example for you to cite.

Playing as a pokemon trainer almost makes more sense than playing as a Pokemon. I mean, If we're looking at Fire Emblem, it's like playing as Random grunt characters, like Mia or Illya, from FEath of Radience (The only FE I'm familiar with). In the game Pokemon, you don't ever control a pokemon. You control a trainer, who issues commands to the Pokemon. The only reason Pokemon got into Smash before the trainer is because the monsters are so much more "visible" to the public eye than the trainers are. I personally happen to think it would be much MUCH more fulfilling and fun to play as a trainer than to play as the Pokemon, and you could even have both.

This thread suffers from Nancyism to the extreme. There is no reason why Red (or any main-character trainer) would'nt be a good idea for a character. They have moves and abilities (Pokemon, bikes, pokeballs, Safari zone rocks etc.), they are technically the main characters of their series, They would be no more rediculous than Princess Peach or Mr. G&W, and they would make perfect sense in the context of Smash.

The only concievable reason I can think of for not liking this idea is either the fear that with the trainer there can be no playable Pokemon (Which is utter BS. If Mario can simultaneousely exist as four separate players while one is dressed as a doctor, then the Pokemon Trainer can use Pokemon against other Pokemon) or just general Anti-Pokemon sentiment.

Red (Or Blue, Brendan, May, etc.) would make a good, solid character with an interesting playstyle, who would represent Pokemon in a different and refreshing way.

 

[magar]

I think it'd be better if the Pokeballs were just empty.

Ya, You Couls Still Throw them at People

 

[Yukiwarashi]

After looking at Samurai Panda's list, although the Japanese didn't agree on my choice of character, they wanted Steven to be a playable character in SSBB. That's right, a Pokemon trainer. Woo! XD