Social PK Love - Lucas Social Thread: “Inside the mailbox was absolutely nothing”

[A Polar Bear]

LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB LUCAS' GRAB

OK it's actually not that big of a deal he can still get punished easily. I just hope people don't get encouraged to return to grab spamming with this change.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

pivotgrab is basicly slowest now, stillstanding grab is godlike

 

[A Polar Bear]

IM LAUGHING BECAUSE HIS NEW GRAB MAKES HIM LOOK LIKE HE PLAYIN ON 2X SPEED OH GOD

 

[MrWhYYZ]

I wanna play so badly but my system memory is full and my stupid WiiU won't let me shove everything on a flashdrive. >.<
I need my 12% N-air.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Holy **** this is so cool. I have competitive hope for this character again. Lucas is moving back up from secondary to main for me :D (until the hype dies down and I realize he still isn't that good)

 

[Masque]

Based Rope Snake is too good!

 

[frozentreasure]

Bad news: they finally fixed Omega Kalos, so wall jumps are possible.

Good news: they didn't change Omega Pac Land.

 

[Login_Sinker]

It's just like in Mother 3 where, despite his failings, rope snake comes back for you in the end.

 

[Doctor_Link]

Bad news: they finally fixed Omega Kalos, so wall jumps are possible.

Good news: they didn't change Omega Pac Land.

What? Tell me what you mean.

 

[frozentreasure]

What? Tell me what you mean.

About which part?

Omega Kalos was one of, if not Lucas' (and Ness') best stage, because he could bounce off walls with PK Thunder, yet wall jumps weren't possible. Since wall jumps were possible on regular Kalos, everyone figured it was a bug that would eventually get patched; and now it has.

But Omega Pac-Land also had this property; we can wall bounce, but characters who can wall cling/jump cannot, due to the shape of the stage walls. This is still in there, and hasn't been patched.

So Omega Pac-Land is now one of the best options for Lucas, if Omegas are allowed in your counterpick.

 

[k-ta]

I like the added damage to N-air, but it makes Nairplanes harder to do.

also inb4everyonestillcomplainsaboutgrab

 

[A Polar Bear]

I like the added damage to N-air, but it makes Nairplanes harder to do.

also inb4everyonestillcomplainsaboutgrab

I really don't see grab being changed anymore than this. It's already pretty ridiculous in my opinion, it looks so silly haha. On one hand it's faster and can make opponents more nervous about it, but on the other it might tempt a reemergence of grab spam, which eventually will make opponents learn to punish again. It's still a tether after all.

So far testing n-air I haven't had any significant trouble stringing them together, even at higher damages. I'm pulling an all nighter and playing the sh*t out of Lucas though, see if I can get used to the shiny new changes.

 

[PKBeam]

only the damage of the last hit of nair is relevant to nair comboes, as that's the one that determines knockback, hitstun etc.
buffing the first four just helps him rack up damage better.

i love the new grab.

 

[Volga]

*reads part of this page*
they buffed Rope Snake!?
its gonna be Rope God at this point!

 

[MrWhYYZ]

I have to go now but can someone please check if SH airdodge F-air works?
Also standing Lucas throw is broken. There I've said it. It's beyond any reason. And I like it.

 

[frozentreasure]

Apparently PSI Magnet heals less on teammate absorbs. Sucks, but it's so monstrously efficient normally that I can't blame them for the change.

I have to go now but can someone please check if SH airdodge F-air works?

Totally works.

 

[Login_Sinker]

So a lot of people are saying Lucas might become high tier due to these buffs. Thoughts?

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Totally works.

I'm trying it now and I'm not getting it. Are you sure?

 

[MrWhYYZ]

So a lot of people are saying Lucas might become high tier due to these buffs. Thoughts?

On paper he was already high tier imo. In practice however, he's just really really hard to play efficiently. Not having a "get off me move" in the air and having no easy A-landing hurts him a lot. His old throw was decent for what you should be trying to do with Lucas but this new throw gives more wiggle room which is nice. However, it isn't fixing his issues to become a Top tier thread.

 

[frozentreasure]

I'm trying it now and I'm not getting it. Are you sure?

Maybe not a perfect autocancel like back air, but I'm definitely getting less endlag out of a short hop airdodge when I forward air. The timing is a little more strict than back air, it seems like. Maybe that was the way it was before, I dunno, I never tried forward air.

Sorry, I misread what you were initially asking. I guess it's not really that useful.

 

[frozentreasure]

Okay, I've been trying to nail that Z-air infinite that was posted a page or two ago, and I think the size of the opponent is a significant factor as well.

I've been trying for a good 30-40 minutes and while I can get the footstool on Wii Fit Trainer pretty easily, the down air lock I only got once, maybe twice. I then switched to trying it against Ness, who falls faster than WFT, and got the lock first try.

While the footstool itself is possible on most of the cast, the entire combo, I think, is only possible on characters who are small enough and floaty enough. If they're too big or fall too fast, they'll just hit the ground too soon and you can't reliably get back down with the aerial in time. The footstool works on DeDeDe and Metaknight and so on, but I don't see how the lock is possible.

EDIT: Looking more closely at it, I think in the case of WFT, it's actually because they have such a small hitbox when they land lying down; still the size of the character, but not because of when they hit the ground.

 

[JesterJaded]

Tunnel vision for the sexy new grab aside, EZ Nair combos will be more important than ever. Our combo game may very well have gotten a HUGE boost, if it wasn't already decent before.

 

[Volga]

Man my Lucas is slipping. After finals tomorrow its nothing but Lucas on For Glory!
well,at least until I get Cloud and Xenoblade X.....

 

[Doctor_Link]

Man my Lucas is slipping. After finals tomorrow its nothing but Lucas on For Glory!
well,at least until I get Cloud and Xenoblade X.....

Not For Glory!

Use Anthers! It's the same except you trade the insta connection for actually good people and lagtests, with rankings as well.

 

[Login_Sinker]

I've been on an Anther's Ladder five loss streak with my Lucas after this patch. I don't know what happened, but it seems I've completely lost my ability to play him. Guess I'll have to go Sonic for the upcoming tourney I'm attending.

 

[Volga]

Not For Glory!

Use Anthers! It's the same except you trade the insta connection for actually good people and lagtests, with rankings as well.

I guess i'll sign up for it after tomorrow. I keep hearing about it,so why not give it a shot.

 

[Doctor_Link]

So much better unless you really want to stomp some people.

 

[FUEGO!]

Okay, were their Down throw knockback changes, because for whatever reason, Downthrow to Upair at kill percents is harder to read it seems because they're going away from me immediately instead of straight up. Am i just a scrub with placebo?

 

[SuperTorn]

Lucas's grab makes me too wet, seriously amazing stuff

 

[A Polar Bear]

I've been on an Anther's Ladder five loss streak with my Lucas after this patch. I don't know what happened, but it seems I've completely lost my ability to play him. Guess I'll have to go Sonic for the upcoming tourney I'm attending.

Okay, were their Down throw knockback changes, because for whatever reason, Downthrow to Upair at kill percents is harder to read it seems because they're going away from me immediately instead of straight up. Am i just a scrub with placebo?

there were no changes to d-throw.

Its odd because DI straight up is usually the mixup that makes me miss the most haha. Try preemptively jumping forward slightly and confirming off reaction to their DI by double jump in the appropriate direction.

 

[Luco]

I still can't believe it was us that got this buff. Like, I mean I've been sitting on these boards for ages now watching the success stories of Ike and (to a lesser extent) WFT. This time, we're the ones the rest of the boards are looking at and going "daaaaaaaamn". It's pretty awesome.

 

[JesterJaded]

I still can't believe it was us that got this buff. Like, I mean I've been sitting on these boards for ages now watching the success stories of Ike and (to a lesser extent) WFT. This time, we're the ones the rest of the boards are looking at and going "daaaaaaaamn". It's pretty awesome.

I'm pretty much more hyped about this than I am at getting to play Cloud and Bayonetta in Smash, and that says a LOT about this buff.

Getting a Wii U this Christmas instead of borrowing a friend's, so I'll he hitting the lab with this ASAP. Lucas still has some flaws, but I think he can start making some waves now!

 

[FUEGO!]

there were no changes to d-throw.

Its odd because DI straight up is usually the mixup that makes me miss the most haha. Try preemptively jumping forward slightly and confirming off reaction to their DI by double jump in the appropriate direction.

Yeah, I think what happened is that I've been playing other characters for a while and forgot what Dthrow's angle did, but my friend's old "mix up" DI wasn't happening because he's not used to me playing Lucas again, haha

 

[MrWhYYZ]

So I thought I was crazy, then I thought I wasn't crazy, then crazy again but now it's confirmed I'm not crazy.
F-air landing lag from 15 -> 12
HUGE change making F-air safer on shield and safer to land with giving Lucas 3 frames more freedom landing with F-air.

 

[BasedGamerAce]

Sakurai may have given me the best Christmas gift I didn't ask for. I'm loving the new nair and grab.

 

[G-Guy]

Pretty much my reaction to the buffs:

 

[Login_Sinker]

So I thought I was crazy, then I thought I wasn't crazy, then crazy again but now it's confirmed I'm not crazy.
F-air landing lag from 15 -> 12
HUGE change making F-air safer on shield and safer to land with giving Lucas 3 frames more freedom landing with F-air.

Someone else noticed! I swear the very first thing I thought when trying out the new Lucas was, "Holy **** his Fair landing lag feels so much faster" but I thought it was just placebo.

 

[JosePollo]

So a lot of people are saying Lucas might become high tier due to these buffs. Thoughts?

He still has some key weaknesses that keep him from reaching a solid A-tier. He still can't auto-cancel any aerials off of short-hops, which means his spacing/zoning in neutral is reduced to zair's tiny hitbox and inability to fast-fall, and PK Fire's 20-frame start-up and its cooldown. He still has a lot of trouble landing when above most characters, especially if they have disjointed up airs. His PKT2 recovery is still easy to exploit despite the long distance it travels (in fact, the longer you recover from with it, the easier it is to intercept). He still struggles against swordsmen/characters with long reach due to the short reach of his moves. And his grab is still a tether grab that cannot reach through a lot of multi-jabs/swords/gets outranged by other tether grabs in specific match-ups. Ness still has longer reach on his dash grab than Lucas's, but that's a completely different story.

With the recent buffs, I'll put him top B-tier. Not quite A-tier, in my eyes.

Fun fact: fair now has less landing lag (12) than nair (13).

 

[JosePollo]

Speaking of buffs, I was going through some files on my computer and came across a list of buffs I'd made a long time ago. I predicted f-tilt's duration getting buffed lol.

 

[A Polar Bear]

He still has some key weaknesses that keep him from reaching a solid A-tier. He still can't auto-cancel any aerials off of short-hops, which means his spacing/zoning in neutral is reduced to zair's tiny hitbox and inability to fast-fall, and PK Fire's 20-frame start-up and its cooldown. He still has a lot of trouble landing when above most characters, especially if they have disjointed up airs. His PKT2 recovery is still easy to exploit despite the long distance it travels (in fact, the longer you recover from with it, the easier it is to intercept). He still struggles against swordsmen/characters with long reach due to the short reach of his moves. And his grab is still a tether grab that cannot reach through a lot of multi-jabs/swords/gets outranged by other tether grabs in specific match-ups. Ness still has longer reach on his dash grab than Lucas's, but that's a completely different story.

With the recent buffs, I'll put him top B-tier. Not quite A-tier, in my eyes.

Fun fact: fair now has less landing lag (12) than nair (13).

After bingeing Lucas for the past 2 days, I'm inclined to a similar conclusion.

This patch, while beneficial in many ways, does not do much in helping Lucas break the barrier that is stopping him from reaching a higher tier. A barrier that is composed of fundamental weaknesses such as lack of AC aerials and a grab that, at the end of the day, is still not the best. Really guys, despite how stupid fast it looks, it was not changed in an 'offensive' manner, with its startup speed and range remaining the same, it doesn't make the grab easier to get, rather less dangerous when missed. It feels less "make a bad move good" and more "make a bad move less bad". It is still slow enough to be easily punished, which opponents will quickly learn to do. This buff appears more aimed to lessen the fear in going for grabs, which in that respect is a great indirect boost, but players will eventually learn that it's still a conservative option (case in point, I've been annihilating online Lucases with Rope Snake fetishes one by one, they'll learn grab spam is still not a good thing eventually).

The n-air and f-air changes are more along the lines of what we need. F-air spacing is going to be fun :D.