pick yur poison | ovah

[Wots All This Then?]

From your experience, has janitor or vengeful ever strongly impacted the outcome?

Fwiw we try to no lynch as little as possible on this site because doing so gives town no benefit whatsoever information wise.
Im sure there are games out there but ive only played with jans a couple times and nolever with a vemge that i remember although in thr first utrickd game sold was a mafia bomb that blew up in endgame tl cause a similar effect

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Guys, quit being ********. We're NOT giving scum a ****ing Janitor. I'll fight every single one of you about this if I must. GF is only sub-par if they actually gave us a masonizer. Janitor is always a terrible option.

I definitely don't want Godfather. Keep in mind scum could have picked masonizer banking on people going for Godfather.

Would still be a bad decision to give us masonizer.

 

[ranmaru]

I still don't want it. Plus it's only a one shot Jan. Lesser evil, don't want to drag this anymore. We can deal with the Jan. I don't want to be in the spot where GF ****s us in the case we do have a masonizer.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Guys, quit being ********. We're NOT giving scum a ****ing Janitor. I'll fight every single one of you about this if I must. GF is only sub-par if they actually gave us a masonizer. Janitor is always a terrible option.



Would still be a bad decision to give us masonizer.

I don't actually think it is that unlikely the mafia gave us mason. Out of the three investigative roles, weak doc, cop and mason, mason is probably the weakest. With weak doc, although they might accidentally die, chances are good they would clear at least one person, meanwhile also saving them. Cop must first work out his sanity, and only then can he work out allegiances, but eventually he'll work out as many people as there have been days. Mason can clear a max of 3 people, and typically only 2. As one of the three must be chosen, mason is probably the most likely.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

With vengeful, we'd get a mafia but they get to choose one extra kill, while with Janitor, they just take the flip away and we still have another chance in our hands. We'd just treat it as another D1 at that point and continue from there. I feel it's better than letting them have a free shot.

Lesser evil that I prefer. I guess the only example I can give is GSs#3, even though it had a town traitor that flipped town. I'd treat it like that and continue to scumhunt individually. Would be a plus if we lynch the Jan first.

What do you mean by take the flip away? And why would you treat it as another D1 since you would already have information?

 

[ranmaru]

I meant they hide the flip from us. I would play as if we had an extended D1, with no flip but someone did die. Meaning nothing you can do but just look at other leads/suspicions.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I meant they hide the flip from us. I would play as if we had an extended D1, with no flip but someone did die. Meaning nothing you can do but just look at other leads/suspicions.

(I'm assuming flip is allegiance)
So you work off a worst-case scenario, and that an innocent was mislynched, right?

In that case, it isn't actually that bad. If a mafia was killed, then we would simply win the game prior to when we expected.

@ ~ Gheb ~ What makes a janitor so bad from your perspective?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I don't actually think it is that unlikely the mafia gave us mason. Out of the three investigative roles, weak doc, cop and mason, mason is probably the weakest. With weak doc, although they might accidentally die, chances are good they would clear at least one person, meanwhile also saving them. Cop must first work out his sanity, and only then can he work out allegiances, but eventually he'll work out as many people as there have been days. Mason can clear a max of 3 people, and typically only 2. As one of the three must be chosen, mason is probably the most likely.

The weak doc might not ever get to out his targets, cops not guarenteed accurate results or getting any out but a masons partner can claim posthumous and clear yet another person on top of that. Thats ridulously strong eliminating a third of the cast from suspicion. Plus the added communication between confirmed townies can be wicked strong

 

[Wots All This Then?]

(I'm assuming flip is allegiance)
So you work off a worst-case scenario, and that an innocent was mislynched, right?

In that case, it isn't actually that bad. If a mafia was killed, then we would simply win the game prior to when we expected.

@ ~ Gheb ~ What makes a janitor so bad from your perspective?

Hijacking

Towns only guarenteed form of information is what we get publicly through the mod confirmed flips. Having a janitor clears out one of those flips and throws the result into endless speculation which then ****s the town over

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Hijacking

Towns only guarenteed form of information is what we get publicly through the mod confirmed flips. Having a janitor clears out one of those flips and throws the result into endless speculation which then ****s the town over

But if we ignore all speculation, taboo it essentially, wouldn't that minimise the effect of a janitor?

 

[RosalinaSGS]

The weak doc might not ever get to out his targets, cops not guarenteed accurate results or getting any out but a masons partner can claim posthumous and clear yet another person on top of that. Thats ridulously strong eliminating a third of the cast from suspicion. Plus the added communication between confirmed townies can be wicked strong

That's true for weak doc, but cop always get accurate results. They may be wrong at first, but eventually, he can build up a database of pretty much everyone, assuming he lives that long. Plus, cop can be used as comparison cop, and eliminate the need to work out his sanity.

 

[ranmaru]

But if we ignore all speculation, taboo it essentially, wouldn't that minimise the effect of a janitor?

This. We simply move on and assume the worst-case scenario and look for scum again. Obviously we wouldn't look for pairs, because the flip is hidden.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

But if we ignore all speculation, taboo it essentially, wouldn't that minimise the effect of a janitor?

its also depriving town of informationan d we could make a wrong assumption. Yeah wr could just act like the slot never exosted and completely ignore it but then we lose all the reactions and wagon info and such that are ckntext dependant upon the flip itself which is something thays not a problem if we just don't include the jan

That's true for weak doc, but cop always get accurate results. They may be wrong at first, but eventually, he can build up a database of pretty much everyone, assuming he lives that long. Plus, cop can be used as comparison cop, and eliminate the need to work out his sanity.

they're only accurate once you figure out the sanity, or if he hits multiple alignments. Assuming we have a cop which is less likely. Doc vig weak doc is much less of ab issue for scum because they canwork arpund the doc vig can misfkre and usually does and weak doc can kill itself

 

[RosalinaSGS]

This. We simply move on and assume the worst-case scenario and look for scum again. Obviously we wouldn't look for pairs, because the flip is hidden.

What do you mean by pairs?

 

[ranmaru]

By pairs I mean connections. Connections to the person who was lynched. (Connections to other scum if that person was scum)

 

[ranmaru]

WOTT, that's stating the obvious. I have already stated what we'd do in that scenario. Now this argument is going in circles. Just vote majority.

Can we get to D1 please. I think we have enough content to find scum role wise. The ones who are not speaking won't speak regardless and we will have the tools to pressure them once we actually start the game. This is getting annoying.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

WOTT, that's stating the obvious. I have already stated what we'd do in that scenario. Now this argument is going in circles. Just vote majority.

Can we get to D1 please. I think we have enough content to find scum role wise. The ones who are not speaking won't speak regardless and we will have the tools to pressure them once we actually start the game. This is getting annoying.

Apparently i need to state the obvious because pretending like it didnt happen robs us of **** we can actually use. I don't want to do that and **** voting for jan. Dietz can do what he wants but this head won't be supporting that unless osme better argument comes up than "gfmesses eoth our possibly nonexistant cop and mason"

 

[ranmaru]

Godfather does the same thing in the case of there being a masonizer, but it's permanent. Jan isn't.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I suppose there isn't really much to add. We might as well go to D1, unless anyone has anything to say that hasn't been said?

 

[ranmaru]

Pro-longing the phase when there is little reason to continue it is pro-scum, because it helps scum coast while town does nothing but argue. (When we can be voting)

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Godfather does the same thing in the case of there being a masonizer, but it's permanent. Jan isn't.

We don't know theres a madon. Theres definitely a jan if you vote to give them one

Besides arent you the one always goin on about ignoring nas and going off day play? By that logic you should like gf better because jan hurts dayplay more.

Imma just sip my tea though

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Pro-longing the phase when there is little reason to continue it is pro-scum, because it helps scum coast while town does nothing but argue. (When we can be voting)

Because optimizing our chpices for what we give scum isnt more important? Theres still plenty reason to discuss this stuff out.

 

[ranmaru]

I do prefer dayplay. Yet I'm forced to choose betweeen godfather and jan, when godfather can mess with mason in the longrun. (Also consider I like the masonizer role)

If you get Godfather to be l-1 today, I'll hammer it because I want to start the game and don't mind having a flip.

 

[ranmaru]

Otherwise just hammer jan and we'll be on our way. I'm out.

 

[ranmaru]

Hey Jaytheunseen. Please vote and/or post an opinion. Thanks.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Undecided between GF and jan.

I didn't realize masonizer is like a limited use cop.But if he happens to recruit GF as his first target,he's now useless.
So now I'm not sure(though I think it's highly unlikely they gave us 1 anyway )

 

[Maven89]

Well I'm sure as **** voting Ranmaru as soon as I can . "Lets give them a janitor and just rush this process, and not view anythign people say here as being suspicoius"

That's 100% what the mafia would want us to do. Rush the process and not pay any attention to what people were talking about.

Also, **** no to janitor. That is terrible

 

[Maven89]

But if we ignore all speculation, taboo it essentially, wouldn't that minimise the effect of a janitor?

Speculation is how the game is played. There's almost never hard evidence, and the hard evidence is almost always suspect.

 

[ranmaru]

It's the lesser evil. Plus you want to vote me for disagreeing with me, not for intent. I don't want to be in this phase anymore. It's not getting anything done.

 

[Maven89]

No it's definitely for intent

 

[ranmaru]

On one side, we have people saying "The mafia would totally push for Godfather!" and on the other "The mafia would totally push for Jan!" so you are simply guessing between zen/me/jex and gheb/wott/maven simply due to difference of opinions. It's speculation without any evidence.

When people continue to argue in circles and are even undecided between GF and Jan, it's time to pull your pants up and lock in and stop moaning.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Vote Godfather & x2 roleblocker

I think it's super unlikely we have masoniser.Jan could really mess with our heads,and there's still 2 other mafia that can be identified via night actions with GF around.

 

[JeXs]

Vote Godfather & x2 roleblocker

I think it's super unlikely we have masoniser.Jan could really mess with our heads,and there's still 2 other mafia that can be identified via night actions with GF around.

you do realize GF messes with weak doc/cop and not just mason right

 

[Maven89]

On one side, we have people saying "The mafia would totally push for Godfather!" and on the other "The mafia would totally push for Jan!" so you are simply guessing between zen/me/jex and gheb/wott/maven simply due to difference of opinions. It's speculation without any evidence.

When people continue to argue in circles and are even undecided between GF and Jan, it's time to pull your pants up and lock in and stop moaning.

Really it's less the janitor option and more the "lets rush this and not consider anything people say here to be relevant"

 

[ranmaru]

I see you miss the point that we are hitting 10 pages without the game having started. The game starting now totally stops you from looking at the past 9 to 10 pages, really?

 

[ranmaru]

It's actually pro-scum to drag this out. Do you see Joey or even Red Ryu posting much? Nah. It helps scum to stay in this phase when we are almost done discussing roles. If you want Godfather why don't you vote it at least.

 

[Maven89]

I see you miss the point that we are hitting 10 pages without the game having started. The game starting now totally stops you from looking at the past 9 to 10 pages, really?

I also feel we are FOS'ing each other simply for disagreement, and not for actual suspicions. Get out of here with this "Yeah we can have Day1 here guys." You too Zen.

Clearly implying you think nothing said here is of value

 

[Dooms]

I thought weak doc still died if he protected godfather.

Also, not sure why people are trying to give mafia a janitor. Giving mafia a janitor is giving them information we will never have. Really straight forward. >_>

 

[Maven89]

The godfather can chose each night if he wants the weak doc to be able to protect him or not

 

[Dooms]

Also I agree with Maven. Ranmaru trying to rush this phase is stupid and very vote worthy. Especially when saying things like "When people continue to argue in circles and are even undecided between GF and Jan, it's time to pull your pants up and lock in and stop moaning."

By the way, in case it wasn't obvious, when you're stuck between Jan and GF, you try to convince one another and get discussion going instead of trying to rush one option for no particular reason so that we get more information from people in the long run. Remember that this is probably one of the most important decisions of the game. I don't understand how you could think that rushing through this phase is pro town considering the fact that we're deciding roles for the mafia team.