Patch 1.1.1

[Xygonn]

Confirmed fair buff and nair buff.

Anybody check Dantarion's data dump? http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/144-to-160/samus

What's downattacku and downattackd? They got changed apparently but I have no idea how to read this



Doesn't make up for last time

These are attacks from the ground (e.g. missed tech). U us facing up, D is facing down. No change to damage.

I think the stun will help confirm Shield breaks on the edge from Bomb + full charge shot A LOT more.

More importantly, SM -> CS is better than ever.

 

[Vyrnx]

Not related to Samus changes but we win the Luigi MU way harder now with shieldstun changes and his nerfed dthrow. He doesn't even have dthrow to cyclone on us anymore. Anything related to the Luigi MU is pretty big because it is the biggest way we are a little relevant competitively right now.

 

[Xygonn]

My thoughts on the new patch as it stands:

1) Samus can land now thanks to the higher shield stun, nair and bair seem to be much safer, this extends to autocancel dair and even uair. Nair -> jab stuffed mario's grab for me. Our neutral is now crazy because of rar FF bairs, IMO. This game just became way more about spacing and not shielding.
2) Dash attack crossed up on shield is much less unsafe, maybe even safe vs. some characters.
3) Our shield pressure has become devastating. Sure other characters can harass shields better now, but not many have good shield breaking moves. Bair to CS, dair to CS and SM to CS are all virtually shield breaks. Bomb to CS shield break is extremely reliable. Basically if you suffer any single strong attack on shield against samus with a CS, you have to run, not shield.
4) Our grab OoS is worse, but who cares? Ayyyy. Upb OoS is worse but still a frame faster than most grabs and a solid option. Basically everyone has an OoS downgrade, except maybe pacman because frame his upb was already so freaking fast. He now has, by far, the best OoS option.
5) Fair upgrade does matter. I think the extra damage will help the move link a bit better due to longer hitstun. We also get a 1.8% damage increase overall on the move. There is now a pretty good reason to use fair instead of uair.

 

[Vyrnx]

Does the bigger hitbox on CS cover tech options better? It seems like a pretty big buff but we haven't been talking about it. Hitbox size 8-->10 is significant.

 

[Xygonn]

Does the bigger hitbox on CS cover more tech options? It seems like a pretty big buff but we haven't been talking about it. Hitbox size 8-->10 is significant.

The official thread is a typo. The change is only on MELEE charge shot. Furthermore the change is from 10 -> 8 not the other way around.

 

[Vyrnx]

Lol melee charge shot got nerfed? Oh well who cares, just kinda funny.
I'm really happy with the update. Nice changes, and also nice to see we got more changes/attention this patch than most characters.

 

[Squaddle]

mannnnn, even with the revamped shield mechanics f-tilt is still hella unsafe on shield, lol

 

[RoachCake]

The N-air Buff may be a bit bigger than I previously thought.

Something I noticed you could do against characters with big hurtboxes a while back in previous patches was you could connect both hits of N-air together, never mentioned it here cause it was pretty hard to pull off most times and only worked on like 2-4 different characters.

Now that N-air has more active frames as well as bigger hitboxes, I've been getting it on a couple more characters with smaller hurtboxes.
Still can be hard to land sometimes, but I think we may be able to get some interesting things out of it now, something like Dash Attack > U-air > Double-hit N-air > D-air/B-air maybe?
I'm gonna mess around with it some more.

 

[FlAlex]

Welp. I'm late.
Soo...how bad were our nerfs?
...Wait...we got....Buffed?

(Good work DM and thanks Sakurai)

 

[FlAlex]

mannnnn, even with the revamped shield mechanics f-tilt is still hella unsafe on shield, lol

Is jab 1 safe on shield?

 

[DungeonMaster]

I think nair vs. ledge grab is massively improved. Like night and day. Running off-stage n-air was good but damn hard to land before, now its hibox is out twice as many frames, it's no sex kick but it's way way easier to time than before.

 

[zblaqk]

Anyone care to test the hurtbox issues with her f-tilt? I'm away atm so I can't.

 

[Hark17ball]

I will say i was using Nair to gimp some people off stage for a few matches againsnt Link and Fox. Was awesome knowing its out 2x longer than id gotten used to.

*Edit* right since the hitbox is bigger i LOVED using SH NAir over peoples get up attacks...to throw them off stage keep momentum....now that it can be used on smaller targets im so excited!

For Example SH (over get up)>Nair>Utilt https://youtu.be/RIHFBpZMWjk?t=43s

 

[DungeonMaster]

Anyone care to test the hurtbox issues with her f-tilt? I'm away atm so I can't.

Still there. Ftilt << Up-tilt now. They CLEARLY want us to use up-tilt.

 

[Squaddle]

Is jab 1 safe on shield?

no... jab, jab2, and dash attack are all still very much unsafe. Pretty much every ground A attack other than poking them with d-tilt or uptilt from a distance will still get you punished.

 

[Ferox]

I was able to avoid a boosted aura sphere using Nair today, it sorta clanked and continued under me (I think Ness could do that to our charge shot prepatch). Was this possible before the patch?

 

[DungeonMaster]

Aerial up-B now does 12 damage. They definitely raised the damage cap on the move. That's not crap, all the basic up-air -> up-B and up-air -> f-air combos gained 1%.
I'll take it. Thank you.

Are the data miners SURE that f-air total end-frames were not decreased? Like some new IASA? I'm finding it way easier to do f-air -> f-air true combos. D-throw -> f-air -> f-air is very real.
FJ f-air into n-air is now a LOT less whiffy an approach.

 

[Vyrnx]

So is nair something that has been improved to the point where we should really start using it?
Can it be used out of a SH (including OOS) as a quick option in CQC (sort of like Yoshi) or is the frame date not good enough. It is frame 8 right? Kuroganehammer says that but I don't know if he still updates Samus's data (lol)

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

In general it feels like FSmash and Missles in general RARELY whiff. They work 90% of the time.

I'm happy!

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

So is nair something that has been improved to the point where we should really start using it?
Can it be used out of a SH (including OOS) as a quick option in CQC (sort of like Yoshi) or is the frame date not good enough. It is frame 8 right? Kuroganehammer says that but I don't know if he still updates Samus's data (lol)

Yes, nair is now a good move, while it's definitely not as good as her old sex kick, it is a usable, fast move that hits pretty hard and is a good edge-gaurding and combo tool.

 

[Hark17ball]

So is nair something that has been improved to the point where we should really start using it?
Can it be used out of a SH (including OOS) as a quick option in CQC (sort of like Yoshi) or is the frame date not good enough. It is frame 8 right? Kuroganehammer says that but I don't know if he still updates Samus's data (lol)

Ive used Nair a ton before the patch...with it being easier to use its much better. I usually bait off stage with homing missile then when they air dodge im falling off stage and spiking them....however if they get used to that i switch to Nair....its awesome

 

[Vyrnx]

If we can use nair OOS reliably that would be insane. It'd solve a lot of CQC and kill problems that Samus has (tech chases). I kind of doubt we can though, I will have to test more tomorrow.

Also, what exactly is the purpose of the backwards hitbox on nair? Surely there is some design reason. I've had the front hit combo to the back a couple times but nothing special. It is really hard to hit and when it does there isn't big reward. Has there been any good use found for it?

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

I'm getting double hits on nair far more frequently and easier, thanks to the new hitbox size increase. Thanks sakurai!

 

[Xygonn]

Aerial up-B now does 12 damage. They definitely raised the damage cap on the move. That's not crap, all the basic up-air -> up-B and up-air -> f-air combos gained 1%.
I'll take it. Thank you.

Are the data miners SURE that f-air total end-frames were not decreased? Like some new IASA? I'm finding it way easier to do f-air -> f-air true combos. D-throw -> f-air -> f-air is very real.
FJ f-air into n-air is now a LOT less whiffy an approach.

Data mines don't cover faf

 

[Emerlad_Element]

If we can use nair OOS reliably that would be insane. It'd solve a lot of CQC and kill problems that Samus has (tech chases). I kind of doubt we can though, I will have to test more tomorrow.

Also, what exactly is the purpose of the backwards hitbox on nair? Surely there is some design reason. I've had the front hit combo to the back a couple times but nothing special. It is really hard to hit and when it does there isn't big reward. Has there been any good use found for it?

Perhaps the reward is a small extra bit of damage? Not sure since I've never really bothered with N-Air. I'll be sure to let everyone know if something comes up.

 

[Emerlad_Element]

Also, N-Air to grab could be a decent option. It isn't guaranteed but it is possible at low percents and could serve as a decent mix up and can get us into D-Throw combos quick. I haven't had much testing with this so it is very possible that this could be effected greatly by your opponents actions. I'll try to test this out more when I can. Unless someone else can validate this as a good option.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm going to say after several hours playing in all modes, this patch was a definite buff. Clear, unmitigated, buff.
It's not everything we hoped for, but it's *some* of what we hoped for.
We now have a nair, whereas we used to have an essentially missing aerial slot. I've seen it trade with other aerials that it used to simply fail outright against (mario in particular but even vs yoshi). It's considerably better at gimping.
The extra damage and better linking of up-B is nice. I'm not entirely sure why it's only aerial version, but whatever, it's there, it can be felt.
F-air extra damage seems to be loaded on final hit, final hit is doing 5 now, quite consistently, which is respectable.

Shields are breaking noticeably more, landing is a bit safer with d-air -> spot-dodge catching many people off guard. In fact, my own damn shield is breaking noticeably more...! Need to adjust playstyle a bit...

 

[KayJay]

Perfect pivot U-tilts are our new F-tilt now.

This is absolutely safe on shield now.

 

[Appe3]

Good buffs nin10do, do you guys think Samus moved up on the tier list because of these? (How do you make a lenny face?)

 

[zblaqk]

Perfect pivot U-tilts are our new F-tilt now.

This is absolutely safe on shield now.

Can i report this for being soo dope? Goddamn

 

[Jandlebars]

Perfect pivot U-tilts are our new F-tilt now.

This is absolutely safe on shield now.

Aww, man. I don't want to learn how to Perfect Pivot. D:

Have noticed the move generally being safe, though, but it does seem to require proper spacing.
I was throwing it out willy-nily earlier, and I was punished quite firmly for it.

 

[Hark17ball]

Perfect pivot U-tilts are our new F-tilt now.

This is absolutely safe on shield now.

Would PP D-tilt be a better stuffer than FSmash then? If shield stun has been increased the punish time on D-tilt is harder correct?

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

Would PP D-tilt be a better stuffer than FSmash then? If shield stun has been increased the punish time on D-tilt is harder correct?

I would think so...

 

[Boney]

I've noticed the new Screwattack can launch people before the final hit pretty far vertically, almost as much at the final hit. Both the aerial and grounded version. It's pretty weird

 

[KenMeister]

I've noticed the new Screwattack can launch people before the final hit pretty far vertically, almost as much at the final hit. Both the aerial and grounded version. It's pretty weird

Huh, so I guess I'm not the only one running into that issue then, I always thought I just mis-spaced it. lol

 

[Tonetta]

Guys, have you noticed something?
Nair is a jab lock setup!
And so I discovered this jab lock combo:

On Sheik:
Rising Nair (can be Oos) - Jab - Charged Upsmash or
Rising Nair - Jab - CS - 36% dmg

On Ganon:
Rising Nair - Jab - Jab - Ftilt - Uair - Chargeshot - 52% dmg

Raise that Hype with that Nair!

The sour spot of back hit Nair used to jablock 30-80% pre patch, hadn't checked out any new data firsthand yet because bh is on 1.1.0 I'll check it out when I get home.

 

[JAZZ_]

I've noticed the new Screwattack can launch people before the final hit pretty far vertically, almost as much at the final hit. Both the aerial and grounded version. It's pretty weird

I've been getting more reliable kills with SA actually. Couple nailbitters ended with a well timed up b , haven't noticed it doing that though. Maybe it's because I haven't used it as much as a really should.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Tried the "highlight reel" option for posting video, it doesn't quite catch all the good moments. For some reason it doesn't think showing the tech chase leading into the big damage combo is important... LOL.
But damn, I'm loving the fixed nair. It's no sex kick, but it's got a hell of a lot more linger now, it's like twice as long as it used to be and protects the hurtbox considerably better.
I've seen it lose to big disjoints but it's trading and winning much much more often and just all around a useful move now.

 

[Wald0]

Now where on the tier list should she be...?

 

[Hark17ball]

Now where on the tier list should she be...?

I wouldnt worry about that just yet. We have to see how everyone else changes with the shield stun tweaks etc. Nair and UpB tweaks are a step in the right direction for us, so its gotten people excited myself included