Pac-Man Vs. : Matchup Discussion Thread- R.O.B. (Pac-MAN V.S Machine)

[Nu~]

Added matchup ratios to the OP

 

[Paper Maribro]

I'm pretty confident this is in Sonic's favour tbh. Sonic doesn't have to commit to anything, only key can take out the spin moves, his long range punish game is insane, his throw rewards are insane, his safety in what he does is insane and his combos are qite damaging. I believe Sonic is top three in this game, no question.

Due to Sonic's speed, predictions about his movement have to be made. Fruit is risky because if you throw it out and he doesn't do anything, he can now rush in at you for free. Tramp is risky because the landing lag we suffer from it. Sonic can easily maneuver around it and punish it (It's happened to me). Hydrant does work in this MU but Sonic can just Fsmash or Bair it away if he wants to.

His jab comes out quicker than ours so clanking at close range will usually result in him winning. His kill power is higher than ours (up smash killed me sub 100%) but thankfully most of his moveset doesn't have much more range than ours. So what do we have over sonic? I'm a bit perplexed with that one, we can punish his mistakes really well as with any other character but I don't see any straight up advantage Sonic has over our moveset. The fact that sonic can just grab our fruit and run away is also annoying.

I'm probs gonna get hate for this but

Sonic 70:30 Pac-Man

 

[Nu~]

I'm pretty confident this is in Sonic's favour tbh. Sonic doesn't have to commit to anything, only key can take out the spin moves, his long range punish game is insane, his throw rewards are insane, his safety in what he does is insane and his combos are qite damaging. I believe Sonic is top three in this game, no question.

Due to Sonic's speed, predictions about his movement have to be made. Fruit is risky because if you throw it out and he doesn't do anything, he can now rush in at you for free. Tramp is risky because the landing lag we suffer from it. Sonic can easily maneuver around it and punish it (It's happened to me). Hydrant does work in this MU but Sonic can just Fsmash or Bair it away if he wants to.

His jab comes out quicker than ours so clanking at close range will usually result in him winning. His kill power is higher than ours (up smash killed me sub 100%) but thankfully most of his moveset doesn't have much more range than ours. So what do we have over sonic? I'm a bit perplexed with that one, we can punish his mistakes really well as with any other character but I don't see any straight up advantage Sonic has over our moveset. The fact that sonic can just grab our fruit and run away is also annoying.

I'm probs gonna get hate for this but

Sonic 70:30 Pac-Man

That seems a bit too harsh.
We probably shouldn't throw out trampolines like we would against any other character. It should be used more offensively in this MU.

Pros for us:
We can punish spin dash with OoS trampoline, which puts him in enough hitstun that he can't punish our landing

Melon does beat down B, but not side B. However, spin dash can be caught by our grab it he tries to approach with it. Probably the best use of our grab in this game.

We can juggle him due to poor landing options


So pretty much, our main advantage is that we can stuff his approach options to an extent.
And has anyone else implemented hydrant gushed fruit into their gameplay? It really helps us approach because the opponent can't punish our attacks safely since they have to worry about the fruit flying behind us.

So if I summed up the matchup ratio right now based on all of our inputs, it would be about 60:40

 

[Paper Maribro]

That seems a bit too harsh.
We probably shouldn't throw out trampolines like we would against any other character. It should be used more offensively in this MU.

Pros for us:
We can punish spin dash with OoS trampoline, which puts him in enough hitstun that he can't punish our landing

Melon does beat down B, but not side B. However, spin dash can be caught by our grab it he tries to approach with it. Probably the best use of our grab in this game.

We can juggle him due to poor landing options


So pretty much, our main advantage is that we can stuff his approach options to an extent.
And has anyone else implemented hydrant gushed fruit into their gameplay? It really helps us approach because the opponent can't punish our attacks safely since they have to worry about the fruit flying behind us.

So if I summed up the matchup ratio right now based on all of our inputs, it would be about 60:40

I have tried doing that and still been punished :/. Maybe he was at too low a percent or something.

Charging to Melon and timing the throw right can be problematic but yeah, it's not unusable.

Our advantage is good as ever, yes.

I haven't but I wouldn't imagine that Sonic's mobility and long range punish options would be conducive to setting up that kind of thing.

 

[Nu~]

Ugh. I really don't like this matchup. We have to play as lame as possible to keep sonic out.
Should we start implementing customs into our discussion considering they are becoming legal soon? If so...then this matchup changes for the better by a lot

 

[Paper Maribro]

I can imagine on fire hydrant would be a god send. Not sure about the fruit though. Lazy fruit might be useful but standard fruit has the 15% key rather than the 10% key.

 

[Nu~]

I can imagine on fire hydrant would be a god send. Not sure about the fruit though. Lazy fruit might be useful but standard fruit has the 15% key rather than the 10% key.

True. But we also get the lazy galaxian which is one of the best projectiles in the game. Eats shields like candy, traps opponents (which leaves him susceptible to our kill moves), blocks the ledge, gives us an active hitbox around us like a better leaf shield...it's awesome.
All of the other fruit can also be used as sheilds as we move in. By walking behind them or on them, we have an active hitbox protecting us which is exactly how to beat a sonic; throwing out disjointed, lingering hitboxes.

Power Pac jump kills early when used in the air, and is the stronger OoS option. Meteor trampoline ruins his vertical recovery when we bounce on it.
We also get the enticing power pellet if you want to punish spin dash extremely hard.

 

[revengeska]

I'm pretty confident this is in Sonic's favour tbh. Sonic doesn't have to commit to anything, only key can take out the spin moves, his long range punish game is insane, his throw rewards are insane, his safety in what he does is insane and his combos are qite damaging. I believe Sonic is top three in this game, no question.

Due to Sonic's speed, predictions about his movement have to be made. Fruit is risky because if you throw it out and he doesn't do anything, he can now rush in at you for free. Tramp is risky because the landing lag we suffer from it. Sonic can easily maneuver around it and punish it (It's happened to me). Hydrant does work in this MU but Sonic can just Fsmash or Bair it away if he wants to.

His jab comes out quicker than ours so clanking at close range will usually result in him winning. His kill power is higher than ours (up smash killed me sub 100%) but thankfully most of his moveset doesn't have much more range than ours. So what do we have over sonic? I'm a bit perplexed with that one, we can punish his mistakes really well as with any other character but I don't see any straight up advantage Sonic has over our moveset. The fact that sonic can just grab our fruit and run away is also annoying.

I'm probs gonna get hate for this but

Sonic 70:30 Pac-Man

I disagree with you about the kill power, I definitely think Pacman has superior killing ability. I think you're mistaken about the up smash, according to http://pastebin.com/PDtQJDSU the KO percent is at 166.

You do seem to be a little harsh, though I understand having endured frustrations against Sonic as well. We may be approaching this matchup the wrong way. I've had more recent success actually being hyper aggressive and going after Sonic(not letting him get in lots of spins). Spacing and timing is extremely important. In my opinion we can't camp him, we have to be a bruiser. Maybe Abadango would prove me wrong. It's a tough matchup, but he doesn't outclass us to the point where we can't do damage on him, and we do have options to kill him.

Ugh. I really don't like this matchup. We have to play as lame as possible to keep sonic out.
Should we start implementing customs into our discussion considering they are becoming legal soon? If so...then this matchup changes for the better by a lot

Let's not. They aren't legal yet and so no one has quality matchup experience with them and thus anything written would be speculation. Lets let them be legal for a while and gain matchup experience, and meanwhile go through the whole cast's normal matchups. Once that's done we can go back and use those conclusions as a basis for customs matchups.

Also, in the matchup ratio description you refer to Pacman as a "she". This is not Ms. Pacman we're playing.

 

[Pacack]

I disagree with you about the kill power, I definitely think Pacman has superior killing ability. I think you're mistaken about the up smash, according to http://pastebin.com/PDtQJDSU the KO percent is at 166.

Also, in the matchup ratio description you refer to Pacman as a "she". This is not Ms. Pacman we're playing.

The thing about Pac-Man's killing power is that it's highly situational. Even pros seem to agree on that much. In theory, Pac-Man's killing power is good. In application, it is not.

And don't remind me of what could have been. It's too painful.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I disagree with you about the kill power, I definitely think Pacman has superior killing ability. I think you're mistaken about the up smash, according to http://pastebin.com/PDtQJDSU the KO percent is at 166.

You do seem to be a little harsh, though I understand having endured frustrations against Sonic as well. We may be approaching this matchup the wrong way. I've had more recent success actually being hyper aggressive and going after Sonic(not letting him get in lots of spins). Spacing and timing is extremely important. In my opinion we can't camp him, we have to be a bruiser. Maybe Abadango would prove me wrong. It's a tough matchup, but he doesn't outclass us to the point where we can't do damage on him, and we do have options to kill him.

Alright well, I definitely have been killed sub 100% by that Up smash and I just did some testing on Mario at the centre of FD and uncharged it killed him at 137% so I'm afraid that is incorrect. Sonic should have an easier time to kill than us because our kill moves can be quite hard to land and we're floatier so will die off the top earlier than he will.

I am an aggressive Pac though. Sonic just beats out a lot of stuff and it becomes more of test of reading your opponent, guess work and patience to simply just scrape by. I honestly think a lot of characters will suffer similarly against Sonic.

 

[dragontamer]

Alright well, I definitely have been killed sub 100% by that Up smash and I just did some testing on Mario at the centre of FD and uncharged it killed him at 137% so I'm afraid that is incorrect. Sonic should have an easier time to kill than us because our kill moves can be quite hard to land and we're floatier so will die off the top earlier than he will.

Thinkaman tested / calculated attacks on Mii Brawler on 3DS Final Destination, which has a much higher ceiling than FD on the WiiU. So for the most part, the killing %s are going to be over-estimations on that chart.

In any case, the core of your post is correct. Sonic lands his killing attacks much easier, because Sonic's USmash is just a better move in general than our USmash. Its much easier to hit with, more meaty with strong priority.

Our USmash has a tiny horizontal hitbox, and an "anti-air" hitbox that comes out on frame 16. (The weak hitbox on frame 13 does not help against airborne opponents). Sonic's USmash is faster and is meaty with an easy-to-use hitbox that wraps all around him, from the bottom of the ground and anti-airs decently.

DSmash and FSmash are both 18 frames, which is wtf slow, especially since their KO potential is mediocre at best... and their cooldowns are still quite punishable.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I also tested it on 3DS. The only different variable is Mii Brawler but getting exact weight values is abritrary, there is no way his up smash is that weak.

His f smash is pretty strong but wow, that's a slow d smash. I think ours are roughly the same start up and roughly the same power though I think our down smash might be stronger.

 

[BlackPhantom]

I also tested it on 3DS. The only different variable is Mii Brawler but getting exact weight values is abritrary, there is no way his up smash is that weak.

His f smash is pretty strong but wow, that's a slow d smash. I think ours are roughly the same start up and roughly the same power though I think our down smash might be stronger.

It probably is, but to be honest, I thought about this matchup and realized that our ISDJ works wonders against the trampoline and we still have our second jump so we can fake an aerial spindash or whatever and just jump out of it

 

[Nu~]

It probably is, but to be honest, I thought about this matchup and realized that our ISDJ works wonders against the trampoline and we still have our second jump so we can fake an aerial spindash or whatever and just jump out of it

That's kinda what we want you to do...jump over it. And wasting your second jump to get out of aerial spin dash is dangerous business when you're over a pac man's head (invincible utilt, usmash, C.Falc uair, bell...)

 

[BlackPhantom]

I've played pacman, the ones I've played were just decent, not good, and that trick worked every time.I threw them off because by the time their u smash was dome I was in the ground.

And also we can just spring -> dair on top of you

 

[Nu~]

I've played pacman, the ones I've played were just decent, not good, and that trick worked every time.I threw them off because by the time their u smash was dome I was in the ground.

And also we can just spring -> dair on top of you

You must have missed the part when I said utilt has invincibility. Usmash is an option, but definitely not the first to take.
Frame 16 usmash or frame 7 utilt...I prefer the latter

 

[BlackPhantom]

That's what the jump is for, to avoid the u-tilt

 

[Nu~]

That's what the jump is for, to avoid the u-tilt

And eat an uair? I was actually referring to if you tried to dair on top of us (I don't know why, you get punished by OOS trampoline or utilt)
I'm just saying that using your double jump against someone who has as good anti air moves as pac-man, is dangerous. Out of all of our aerials, uair has the most range.
Now you can spring --> dair--> roll away, but that puts you back at square one once I plant my trampoline again as you use dair. Stuffing sonic's approaches is the easy part(fruit either clash or beat spin dash, BF attracts HA, utilt beats HA, and jumping over our traps puts you in a disadvantaged state) it's guessing which approach he's going to take that's the hard part. That's why telegraphing your approach like that is a bad idea.

 

[Po3T]

Me personally, I always have a hard time with Sonic. His dash attack seems to go through my defenses with ease. Now I should say, I am more of an aggressive Pac-Player and tend to use his F-air more than I should. I dislike using the Fire Hydrant strictly because it is really easy to have it back fire. Nonetheless, I am not trying to make this a "Help me use Pac-man" discussion soooo, as far as Sonic goes, is there really no other choice than to Up-B OoS? Is there anyone streaming Pac-Man?


Note, brand new here and just now getting into Competitive Smash.

 

[Nu~]

Alright everyone. Today is the day for final summaries. Gather your thoughts, and come up with a ratio and thorough reasoning for why you believe the matchup is in sonic's or our favor, or even.

 

[Jay-kun]

Alright everyone. Today is the day for final summaries. Gather your thoughts, and come up with a ratio and thorough reasoning for why you believe the matchup is in sonic's or our favor, or even.

Alright. So I haven't been playing for a straight week cause of stuff (I usually do this it works as like a meditation/fasting from Smash lol)
Anyway my play style completely changed literally overnight.
SO I have been throwing out more SHFF fairs and dairs, and use hungry-pellet-eater-attack all the time.
Also my positioning on hydrant is A+/A-/B+/B
Using SH airdodge-nair, I feel like their are more opportunities then I have had in previous matches. @ Nu~ (srry) I was kind of bias, maybe not either way forgive my attitude:
I haven't gone against any Sonic's lately but am imagining that hungry-pellet-eater-attack will probably be Pac's most useful move in this matchup:
1. It is fast and powerful
2. It can be reversed on the ground while in the air for tricky stuff
3. It can be turned in multiple directions and is very useful when you have a good read on your opponent
4. Partly superarmor
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My thoughts on hydrant is only use when Sonic is offstage/ in air (not including SHps). Using such a laggy move while on level ground with Sonic is too risky, we can all agree on that I think. Using it as a anti-air tool if he is under you in the air (ex. up-throw -> spring) is probably a bad option considering his high % fair which can knock the hydrant back up (actually idk exactly, need info on HP of hydrant and dmg on Sonics aerials)
^ If we have that info, we can punish all of Sonic's other aerials.

Fruits is a must. I'm guessing orange because it is fast and knocks Sonic horizontally, where he would need to (side-b) spindash and can be punished with (Pacman's up-b) trampoline.

Fair combos/ fair to footstool....probably wouldn't work but id really know....(need info)

Sonic using dair into spring...I think this just gives us a chance to use a special, hungry-pellet-eater-attack probably out-prioritizes it.

IMPORTANT: Sonic's mindgames. The worst part of this MU is his mindgames. Since almost all of Pac's moves are laggy and aerials don't auto-cancel, if you whiff, you should get punished.

Recovering: hard from offstage-onstage Pacman recovery because of laggy moves (as mentioned ^). I recommend throwing Galactica because of the anti-air options. Stage-spiking up-specials for BOTH characters is something to keep in mind.

PP (perfect-pivoting) very useful in a MU where Sonic does retreating fairs. self explanatory.
I think Pacman is a better juggler but only if you have a set up already. The advantage Sonic has is that he can juggle without setups.
Somewhat of a noob on this MU (maybe, maybe not) so I'll say: 55:45 in favor of Sonic.

P.S. If I made a good point, don't forget to @ Jay-kun me!! ty!! ~<3

 

[Jords2Good]

I haven't really face alot of sonic's with pac-man but I would guess is that you should make alot of use of the lower fruits, especially orange.

When I play pacman, I use the hydrant and the fruits alot, those are pretty good for keeping some opponents away, for sonic, I feel I would use the orange and the apple alot, trying to catch sonic with the melon, bell and key would be too hard. I usually don't use the key anyways so using it against sonic would not be any better. The hydrant im not sure, with sonic's fast forward smash he can knock it away pretty quickly, or just run past it. As far as I know using the hydrant with fast characters usually never worked for me, they would run up and hit it off and then it would end up hitting me instead. I would have to be careful to when I use the hydrant against sonic so he doesn't punish me. I sometimes use to punish instead for a setup or something idk im stilll not so sure about the match up.

Pac-man would have trouble keeping sonic off of him and Pac=man, would be......2 slow to play his game. but I think pacman has some good stuff that probably works against sonic but I just don't remember it cause I know I beaten a few sonics with my pac-man, but I cant remember if they were good or not.

Sonic and Pacman are my mains (along with mega man too) so if someone wanna do the match I'll be down to do it. Just PM me first though.

 

[Nu~]

Alright everyone, the week of sonic is over. We got a lot of good discussion in.

To conclude the sonic matchup, I'm going to combine all of the info we have discussed.

Vs.

Sonic normally thrives on getting in and overwhelming his opponents, just to dash away when the going gets rough.
He cant do this easily against Pac-Man.
Sonic has to manuever around a feild of trampolines, fruit, and hydrants, all while trying to landing safely. Spin dash can go through the hydrant, but is popped upwards by trampoline. Melon and above can beat down B, but side B clashes with everything except for the key.
Sonic has horrible landing options, something that Pac-Man thrives on. The trampoline places him into disadvantage very soon, and from there, we can punish all landing attempts with any fruit (especially Apple to reset the disadvantage), uair, our invincible utilt, or with a hard read, Usmash. A battle in the air greatly favors us in this matchup due to sonic's slower aerials and low priority, but don't end up over his head. If you miss the hydrant, uair juggles from sonic will hurt. Try to stay underneath him where you can juggle him very well.
Sonic loses hard offstage. We have a fruit for every angle, while sonic is forced to recover with a spin shot (very unsafe) or his up B. Both can be punished hard by an orange. We can also chain fairs offstage to gimp him very well.

So what about the ground game? Sonic can rip through the hydrant with side or down B, punish our tranpoline landing lag, and side B clashes with every fruit besides key.
But what if I told you that we have outs to all of this?
Sonic can't spin dash through the hydrant if we are right behind it, or he will eat an fsmash or grab. The tranpoline can be punished, but only up close. You should use the tranpoline as soon as you gain some space, or use it OoS to punish Sonic's spin dash. Sonic also has limited approach options, so he is forced to try and trick you by weaving in and out until he sees an opening. You have to be very patient with him. Continuously throw out hit boxes like Bair and fair to limit sonic's approach, and use Side B to punish if he commits to spin dash.
Make sure to keep your distance because once sonic is in, it's very hard to get him out. Don't commit to anything unless you are 100% sure that you will land a hit.

He have all the tools to stop sonic, but you have to play very safe. The whole battle is a mistake for both opponents. Sonic has to find a way to get in safely around our traps and we can easily put him in a disadvantaged state, while Pac-Man has to work even harder to keep sonic out and avoid using moves with too much risk. Only go in when you have the advantage.
The more patient player will win.

Overall, I give this matchup a 45:55 in sonic's favor.
This is subject to change as the meta evolves. It may get better or worse depending on how much the characters evolve.

Now week 2 begins where we take on Yoshi, the green dinosaur!

 

[Jay-kun]

I know we are on Yoshi vs Pacman but I just wanna point out that Pacman is a middle hard MU for Pacman..

 

[Firedemon0]

Yoshi is not nearly as hard of a match up as it may seem. Yoshi has to commit pretty hard when approaching, excluding well spaced bairs. Each aerial has a counter attack in Pac-man's repertoire. Dair is countered with an OOS Nair. Fair can be shield grabbed, or also naired, depending on commitment. Nair can be out spaced and punished with fruit.

Yoshi's Jab is very fast, but from personal experience. It seems to be used immediately after any attack while landing. You cannot rush in to punish Yoshi because of this and need to come from above with hydrant or fruit. His dash attack, unless timed correctly will always go behind you, opening up easy ftilt punishes that are very safe for Pac-man. Egg spam can be blocked if poorly angled with fruit charging. You can also use properly thrown eggs at lower percents to get later fruit easily for Zdropping such as key. Yoshi's smash attacks are faster then Pac-man's. He is unable to really rush in by ground because of Yoshi's Jab. So Short hop nairs and fairs are good punish options for smash attacks, just be mindful of up-smash before committing as it rivals Fox's in ability to kill Pac-man. You are safe to recovery low against Yoshi because Yoshi is unable to really go all that deep excluding a quick bair to try to stage spike. Which comes into the next part.

Yoshi's recovery is very predictable. If they prefer to grab ledge, an egg will be thrown almost 100% of the time. This is trying to force shield to allow safe ledge grab. Just space back slightly, shield, and throw bell. Yoshi players in general seem to expect attacks at the apex of their jumps, and will try to cover that with eggs or nair. Empty SH into upsmash is an effective method of baiting and punishing that recovery method onstage. You will likely not be able to gimp Yoshi because of the armor DJ posses. So it is punishing Yoshi's ways of getting onstage that will secure kills.

At the same time. Yoshi has a crazy long time to live against Pac-man. Because of the overwhelming threat of Jab and Nair. It becomes a bunch of small victories till you can secure a kill with Bell, or a crazy high percent Key strike. This works against Pac-man and makes it a very slow match because Pac-man cannot really approach Yoshi all that effectively because of Yoshi's options in egg, nair, jab and upsmash. It comes down to properly using Pac-man's Specials in concert with proper spacing and tilt punishes.

I have to rate this fight 55:45 in Yoshi's favor because of these disadvantages, while we can poke and prod safely, Yoshi can very easily kill Pac-man for a mistake.

 

[Nu~]

Yoshi is not nearly as hard of a match up as it may seem. Yoshi has to commit pretty hard when approaching, excluding well spaced bairs. Each aerial has a counter attack in Pac-man's repertoire. Dair is countered with an OOS Nair. Fair can be shield grabbed, or also naired, depending on commitment. Nair can be out spaced and punished with fruit.

Yoshi's Jab is very fast, but from personal experience. It seems to be used immediately after any attack while landing. You cannot rush in to punish Yoshi because of this and need to come from above with hydrant or fruit. His dash attack, unless timed correctly will always go behind you, opening up easy ftilt punishes that are very safe for Pac-man. Egg spam can be blocked if poorly angled with fruit charging. You can also use properly thrown eggs at lower percents to get later fruit easily for Zdropping such as key. Yoshi's smash attacks are faster then Pac-man's. He is unable to really rush in by ground because of Yoshi's Jab. So Short hop nairs and fairs are good punish options for smash attacks, just be mindful of up-smash before committing as it rivals Fox's in ability to kill Pac-man. You are safe to recovery low against Yoshi because Yoshi is unable to really go all that deep excluding a quick bair to try to stage spike. Which comes into the next part.

Yoshi's recovery is very predictable. If they prefer to grab ledge, an egg will be thrown almost 100% of the time. This is trying to force shield to allow safe ledge grab. Just space back slightly, shield, and throw bell. Yoshi players in general seem to expect attacks at the apex of their jumps, and will try to cover that with eggs or nair. Empty SH into upsmash is an effective method of baiting and punishing that recovery method onstage. You will likely not be able to gimp Yoshi because of the armor DJ posses. So it is punishing Yoshi's ways of getting onstage that will secure kills.

At the same time. Yoshi has a crazy long time to live against Pac-man. Because of the overwhelming threat of Jab and Nair. It becomes a bunch of small victories till you can secure a kill with Bell, or a crazy high percent Key strike. This works against Pac-man and makes it a very slow match because Pac-man cannot really approach Yoshi all that effectively because of Yoshi's options in egg, nair, jab and upsmash. It comes down to properly using Pac-man's Specials in concert with proper spacing and tilt punishes.

I have to rate this fight 55:45 in Yoshi's favor because of these disadvantages, while we can poke and prod safely, Yoshi can very easily kill Pac-man for a mistake.

Very well said. I agree with everything here.
Although, the killing problem isn't that bad for us because the apple kills Yoshi at around 110% (way faster than the key).
Yoshi is one of the floatier characters in the game, so any vertical KO move should blow him up relatively early. It helps that our uair and Usmash are such good anti airs.
The side B can also block poorly thrown eggs.

 

[Tetz]

I agree with everything that Firedemon said.
I still have a few things to add, that might put pac into trouble.

Eggs: Eggs everywhere. A good yoshi knows when to use them. These things can be annoying if we want to charge up our bonus fruit in the air, because the eggs can be very accurate and mess up our charge. We drop the current fruit and might charge all up again. I dont know, but I had good experience with going with the lower fruits, especially Orange and the Apple. I don't think a good Yoshi will give us the time to charge up to the key, because he's fast, versatile and has a great projectile.

Behaviour with the hydrant: Yoshi can one hit the hydrant with his fair, which is kinda annoying. Also, if he throws an egg at the hydrant and immediately nairs it, it launches too (yes he can do that, because of his great air mobility, to give you an Idea watch this sweet Video Slice Made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByjHLtFxJiI). And his upsmash is a great anti hydrant tool. Running at the hydrant with his great upsmash, launches the hydrant immediately and puts it in a wierd angle.

Other than that, Firedemon said everything already. The bell is a really good weapon against Yoshi. Most Yoshis do not like recovering low, so they often do not really grab the ledge. If you use the bell as edgeguarding tool, you will often have success with that, following up with an upsmash/upair/nair (whatever).

 

[Nu~]

I agree with everything that Firedemon said.
I still have a few things to add, that might put pac into trouble.

Eggs: Eggs everywhere. A good yoshi knows when to use them. These things can be annoying if we want to charge up our bonus fruit in the air, because the eggs can be very accurate and mess up our charge. We drop the current fruit and might charge all up again. I dont know, but I had good experience with going with the lower fruits, especially Orange and the Apple. I don't think a good Yoshi will give us the time to charge up to the key, because he's fast, versatile and has a great projectile.

Behaviour with the hydrant: Yoshi can one hit the hydrant with his fair, which is kinda annoying. Also, if he throws an egg at the hydrant and immediately nairs it, it launches too (yes he can do that, because of his great air mobility, to give you an Idea watch this sweet Video Slice Made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByjHLtFxJiI). And his upsmash is a great anti hydrant tool. Running at the hydrant with his great upsmash, launches the hydrant immediately and puts it in a wierd angle.

Other than that, Firedemon said everything already. The bell is a really good weapon against Yoshi. Most Yoshis do not like recovering low, so they often do not really grab the ledge. If you use the bell as edgeguarding tool, you will often have success with that, following up with an upsmash/upair/nair (whatever).

You can punish any attack that yoshi uses to launch the hydrant if you are close enough to it. Never leave a hydrant unattended unless you are using the time to charge up your fruit.
The trampoline is very good in this matchup as well because his landing options can all be punished.

 

[Tetz]

The trampoline is very good in this matchup as well because his landing options can all be punished.

Agreed, Trampoline helps in that MU. However, watch out for those lagless Down B's he can do on our trampolines.

 

[Jay-kun]

Agreed, Trampoline helps in that MU. However, watch out for those lagless Down B's he can do on our trampolines.

hmm how can we offensively up-b safely!??

 

[Nu~]

hmm how can we offensively up-b safely!??

At mid-high percentages when the knockback is high enough and he uses down B or dair on your sheild,
or just use it defensively once you are in advantage (when you have space, up B)

 

[Pacack]

hmm how can we offensively up-b safely!??

Have you never watched Abadango play? The trampoline is arguably our second best move after the hydrant.

 

[Nu~]

I would say the BF is our best move, then hydrant and trampoline would be tied.

 

[Jay-kun]

Have you never watched Abadango play? The trampoline is arguably our second best move after the hydrant.

true my mistake i was thinking of going horizontal after up-b not vertically :/

 

[Tetz]

As for the stages, try counterpicking BF, Lyat or Duck Hunt. As a Yoshi Player, I can tell you that BF helps against Egg Spam. Many Yoshis don't like that stage, but some really do. It depends on the Player really. I personally hate that Stage as Yoshi.
Lyat might be the better option, more Platforms = more protection really. Those platformish Stages force Yoshi to approach more often, this is a chance for us to but him in positions he doesn't like. Btw, Abadango counterpicked Lyat too and learned how to use this stage :]
Duck Hunt might be very helpful too, Yoshi's do not like it there because the Duck's eat up their Eggs lol. You can also camp a little up in the trees to charge up the Bonus fruit. Btw. It's a very easy stage to recatch the Key.
DO NOT bring Yoshi To T&C, this might be the best stage for him.

 

[Nu~]

Okay...We didn't get a lot of discussion this week. I'm assuming it's because people from the Yoshi thread ignored my invitation.
Anyways, it's time for summaries!!!!
Unless you all want to extend the discussion?

 

[Jay-kun]

Okay...We didn't get a lot of discussion this week. I'm assuming it's because people from the Yoshi thread ignored my invitation.
Anyways, it's time for summaries!!!!
Unless you all want to extend the discussion?

extend...nothing happened here over the past few days..

 

[Nu~]

Alright, I'm extending the yoshi discussion to 2/22

Hopefully we can be a little bit more active this time.

 

[Jay-kun]

Alright, I'm extending the yoshi discussion to 2/22

Hopefully we can be a little bit more active this time.

i hope we can but haven't faced any Yoshi lately

 

[Phampy]

You can block high/middle arcing eggs with the bonus fruit charge while grounded. It'll help shield you from incoming eggs and you get to charge fruit as well since Pacman holds the fruit high enough over his head that if it hits any part of the fruit, the explosion won't reach you. Handy when they're trying to force you to approach by pelting you with eggs or if they're trying to snipe you over a hydrant or trampoline.