Pac Man changes with the new update

[Nu~]

So nothing has changed.

 

[BSP]

So nothing has changed.

What bothers me more is that apparently Luma's numbers weren't touched. Can't it KO at ridiculous percents with rage u air? And Jab being a KO move? Please.

The only thing that I'm really bummed about for us is the dead zones still being there. Just why? That's all I wanted. Either dead zones gone (ESPECIALLY THE ARM >_>) and beam adjusted to match actual grab range.

With however Dair was adjusted, it may KO vertically earlier than Uair. We should look at it.

 

[Nu~]

At least Luma's hp is lower

 

[fromundaman]

Is it me or does Down Air's attacks now connect to each other more reliably? I'm not 100% sure about this, but if this is true, then now Pac's most garbage move is actually a bit more useful.

I actually hope not. The only incredibly situational use I had for the move was to make the weak hit drop people into a red trampoline.

I don't know if it has always worked like this, but the Bonus Fruits always do the same amount of damage?? Like, when you use the Cherry it always do 4% and the Key, 15%. Was it so before, or am I a completely tickhead for not noticing? I tested this in normal mode (not training mode) and 10 consecutive Cherries did 40%, 10 consecutive Oranges did 80% and 10 consecutive Keys did 150%. So the fruits don't stale in terms of damage, or what? Anyone know if this has always been the case? (I don't know if the fruits's knockback gets staled though.) I also tested this: The Bonus Fruits can't stale each other? Is this new or has this existed before too?

I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could answer all these questions!

Fruits have never staled, as someone else said, but also moves don't stale in training mode anyway.

 

[NimbusSpark]

At least Luma's hp is lower

Yes, I found that out too searching the Rosa threads. Luma's total HP is approximately 4% lower than it was before. Still annoying, but at least Rosa is just a touch more managable.
Sadly though, MU-wise, neither Rosalina nor Fox, the two characters that are considered our hardest MU's seem to not recieve any notable nerfs, other than the Luma's HP decrease.
Either way, I'd still say that Sakurai has been fairly generous on Pac with this patch. Before he was a pretty balanced character who didn't require many, if any changes at all (still waiting for Sakurai to add hitboxes throughout the entire grab animation though, and to fix the range of his grab. ), but this patch sort of reduced the intensity of Pac's weaknesses - lack of reliable KO moves, and of course, his grab game.

 

[xzx]

@ fromundaman : Yeah. I recently read an article about stale-moves negation and in Smash 4, items such as Link's bombs or R.O.B.'s gyro don't stale, as is the case for PAC-MAN's Bonus Fruit. =)
---
So no actual buffs, besides maybe Dair? k. I wonder what makes Sakurai believe that tether grabs, which are >much< faster, >much< longer, end >much< quicker and have >better< startup frames, are worse than PAC-MAN's worst-in-the-series grab... For me his grab is a downgrade from a tether grab. But apparently Sakurai thinks otherwise... v_v

 

[BSP]

I actually hope not. The only incredibly situational use I had for the move was to make the weak hit drop people into a red trampoline.

.

The weaker hits of Dair don't drag upwards for sure.

 

[Nu~]

Well no changes are still better than nerfs or breaking Pac-Man.

We didn't get hard like mega man (that item holding patch may have destroyed the chance of a very powerful option for him in the future)

And fox really doesn't feel like a bad matchup in my eyes.
Sonic is the worst. No one else bothers me

 

[Zage]

Can anyone else not Bair>Utilt the hydrant consistently anymore? The timing is must more strict and I suspect its because Pac-Man has a new tumbling animation for when he runs off the hydrant.

Edit: Using a B-air really close to the ground after directly falling off a hydrant also won't Autocancel anymore.

 

[Sinji]

Happy about the bair, grab and galaxian buff we got. I always grab my opponent after breaking out of their grab. And I can wall out my opponent with bairs now.

 

[Nu~]

Happy about the bair, grab and galaxian buff we got. I always grab my opponent after breaking out of their grab. And I can wall out my opponent with bairs now.

You're hurting my heart man

 

[DJDave189]

Eh. I'm taking everything with a grain of salt as of right now.

 

[Sinji]

You're hurting my heart man

Why lol. Also I found out that our up air got nerf in terms of knockback, but its good for juggling now.

 

[Nu~]

Why lol. Also I found out that our up air got nerf in terms of knockback, but its good for juggling now.

Are you sure? I don't want to go through all that disappointment again.

What type of buffs did the bair, galaxian, and grab get

 

[BSP]

I don't think anything has changed outside of villager being unable to pocket trampoline and Pac-Man doing a flip when he runs off of the hydrant, like a ledge.

@ Zage that flip makes your character go farther, so that's why bair -> Utilt isn't working. And just to note, even if you do an aerial after doing the flip, Pac-Man will run in whatever direction you're pressing when he can, unless you let the stick return to neutral

Bair didn't change. Not any faster or different ending lag.

We can no longer do smashes while holding fruit, like everyone else.

I don't see anything different with Galaxian. Same 9%, you can still go ham with it.

Healing trick on gravitational pull still works. Pellet still heals 2%. No discernible change in our smashes.

Just wait for an official dump.

Grab was confirmed no change by Thinkaman. Yes, it can still e spot dodged. Pac-Man's arm is dead while the beam is out, and the entire beam doesn't grab during the extending animation.

 

[Sinji]

Are you sure? I don't want to go through all that disappointment again.

What type of buffs did the bair, galaxian, and grab get

Bair has less cool down and less landing lag. Grab range extends a little and has a lot less cool down. Galaxian start up time when thrown is a little faster.

 

[Nu~]

Bair has less cool down and less landing lag. Grab range extends a little and has a lot less cool down. Galaxian start up time when thrown is a little faster.

How are you testing this?

 

[BSP]

How are you testing this?

You're being trolled. I tried to SH Bair -> something, and the only thing you have time to do is jump, just like pre patch.

 

[xzx]

Yeah, and I also heard that you have to press and HOLD the button for the whole beam to be activated. And Bair kills at 80% off-stage now. Also, PAC-MAN can kill realibly with >all< of his moves under 100% know!!! Man, Sakurai really loves PAC-MAN!! =D
.
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*Sakurai thinking* (Obviously I'm being sarcastic.)

Seriously though, why do Sakurai hate PAC-MAN so much? Shields destroy PAC-MAN and he can't kill either, while other characters get random killing moves... Seriously, just throw up a shield in front of PAC-MAN and you have literally shut him down. He can't grab shielding opponents. Big sigh.

 

[BSP]

Yeah, and I also heard that you have to press and HOLD the button for the whole beam to be activated. And Bair kills at 80% off-stage now. Also, PAC-MAN can kill realibly with >all< of his moves under 100% know!!! Man, Sakurai really loves PAC-MAN!! =D
.
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*Sakurai thinking* (Obviously I'm being sarcastic.)

Seriously though, why do Sakurai hate PAC-MAN so much? Shields destroy PAC-MAN and he can't kill either, while other characters get random killing moves... Seriously, just throw up a shield in front of PAC-MAN and you have literally shut him down. He can't grab shielding opponents. Big sigh.

Pac-Man has a frame 1 unblockable and un-dodgeable move. Shields are annoying, but they hardly shut him down.

 

[Nu~]

Yeah, and I also heard that you have to press and HOLD the button for the whole beam to be activated. And Bair kills at 80% off-stage now. Also, PAC-MAN can kill realibly with >all< of his moves under 100% know!!! Man, Sakurai really loves PAC-MAN!! =D
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.
.
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*Sakurai thinking* (Obviously I'm being sarcastic.)

Seriously though, why do Sakurai hate PAC-MAN so much? Shields destroy PAC-MAN and he can't kill either, while other characters get random killing moves... Seriously, just throw up a shield in front of PAC-MAN and you have literally shut him down. He can't grab shielding opponents. Big sigh.

Please leave. The disappointment has ruined your judgment

 

[xzx]

Pac-Man has a frame 1 unblockable and un-dodgeable move. Shields are annoying, but they hardly shut him down.

Huh, what move are you talking about then?

@ Nu~ : Ok ok, relax. It wasn't meant to be serious (not the first part of the post anyway). Chill.

 

[Nu~]

Huh, what move are you talking about then?

@ Nu~ : Ok ok, relax. It wasn't meant to be serious (not the first part of the post anyway). Chill.

I was referring to the second part. You are taking it way too far. His trampoline ignores shields and dodges.

 

[xzx]

I was referring to the second part. You are taking it way too far. His trampoline ignores shields and dodges.

Okay, but I was actually serious in the second part. I feel like everything PAC-MAN does can be blocked/countered by just shielding, since he can't really grab with his garbage frame 12 grab anyway. The trampoline is another story, but it can leave you open anyway.

Sorry for digressing. One thing I wanna know though is if PAC-MAN's Power Pellet really has been changed. Is it really stronger but shorter? Has anyone tested this and confirmed it? It would be nice if one could be 100 % sure.

 

[Nu~]

Okay, but I was actually serious in the second part. I feel like everything PAC-MAN does can be blocked/countered by just shielding, since he can't really grab with his garbage frame 12 grab anyway. The trampoline is another story, but it can leave you open anyway.

Sorry for digressing. One thing I wanna know though is if PAC-MAN's Power Pellet really has been changed. Is it really stronger but shorter? Has anyone tested this and confirmed it? It would be nice if one could be 100 % sure.

Guess ZSS and link can't do anything either. You do realize that a f12 grab isn't impossible to grab with right? Trampoline OoS can't be punished if the opponent gets hit.

An opponent has to attack sometime. No one can shield 24/7 and expect to win.

The power pellet is unchanged. More placebo.

 

[Froggy]

What the hell is going on here? Has the grab been changed or not? Is the F-Smash and D-smash stronger or not? I keep hearing conflicting things.

 

[Nu~]

What the hell is going on here? Has the grab been changed or not? Is the F-Smash and D-smash stronger or not? I keep hearing conflicting things.

Everything was deconfirmed.
Nothing has changed.

 

[Zage]

The only change we got was that new tumble animation and I would call that a nerf if anything.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Is it just me or do the hits on Pac's Dair actually connect now?



Also, my 1st post.
Yay.

 

[Jave]

So the only confirmed change is Villager no longer pocketing Trampoline?

 

[Firedemon0]

So the only confirmed change is Villager no longer pocketing Trampoline?

Correct, I missed the hooplah with testing this time around, and came to the same conclusion that nothing has changed.

 

[BSP]

So the only confirmed change is Villager no longer pocketing Trampoline?

As Zage said, Pac-Man now runs off of his hydrant like he does with a ledge.

 

[Firedemon0]

As Zage said, Pac-Man now runs off of his hydrant like he does with a ledge.

I have not had time to test, but does that animation's IASA frames count the same as the old walk off for bair timing?

 

[Zage]

They're virtually the same, the only difference is that now you're slightly farther away. As far as I can tell, it only makes the timing for utilting the hydrant after a bair much stricter.

 

[Frycicle]

They're virtually the same, the only difference is that now you're slightly farther away. As far as I can tell, it only makes the timing for utilting the hydrant after a bair much stricter.

Which is basically a nerf at this point. Great!

 

[Nu~]

On the bright side (something a lot of you guys forget), the window for fruit gushing is more liberal now, and we can escape the hydrant quicker if the opponent tries to hit it as it hits the ground.

 

[BSP]

It's not game changing, but I would take some time to get familiar with the new flip because it changes some timings and input requirements slightly.

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah... I've noticed that and am not pleased. I need to take it back into the lab because what used to be "Bair the hydrant then turn around and jab launch it" is now coming out as a DA launch. I need to find the new timing to jab launch that thing; it's a huge part of my game.

 

[Phampy]

It's not game changing, but I would take some time to get familiar with the new flip because it changes some timings and input requirements slightly.

Yeah I agree with this. Took Pacman onto For Glory for a bit today after I realized I couldn't use Mewtwo against my opponent and saw that I couldn't fall off the Hydrant and Z drop galaxian with the same timing. Got to hit the lab sometime soon and see what timing needs to be tweaked so I don't get surprised when my setups don't work.

 

[fromundaman]

WOAH! There is one change we missed!

Galaxian now seems to have two hits even when the first hit is shielded. This opens up new pressure opportunities with it.

I need to see if it still keeps 2 hits when one of the hits clash. If it does, then that makes it a really good anti-projectile fruit now.