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Official SWF Tier List v8

thrillagorilla

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
861
Location
Jefferson, USA
Peach DIs away>G&W gets free damage, positioning advantage or G&W DIs his Bair toward Peach as she tries to SDI away and gets more hits in, then Peach must approach which is hard.
To the "free damage" claim, well yeah. Peach got hit in the first place, not the best position to be in. It can be better to cut losses than to try and predict what your opponent is going to do, so I stand by that claim.

As for DI'ing the bair into Peach... First, the hypothetical situation was that G&W was already moving away from Peach with a spaced retreating bair. If the situation is different, then so are Peach's options, most noticeably the original assertion that Peach can DI through. Unless G&W magically has Wario's air acceleration. Does this mean Peach is suddenly in a magical advantaged position? No, but its better than where she was before when she was getting hit.

I am willing to admit I don't know enough about the MU to comment on whether or not it is difficult for Peach to approach, but making the blanket statement of "its hard" does make me raise an eyebrow.

Peach DIs up and she's in a terrible spot above G&W.
I'm guessing this is because of Up-B as Grim had mentioned? Still, difficult positioning > taking more hits, and you might be able to bait the up-b and get away. Guaranteed? Hardly, but very few things in this game are.

I'm really against theory crafting.
Ok. I'm talking about options. I never claimed any of the positions that Peach ends up in after getting hit were good, just that they were better than they were before. And if this is any different than anything you mentioned in your own post about G&W's options in this given situation, let me know.

The main cases for Peach winning the MU originally were Peach punishes G&W's upB and G&W's Bair's not safe; both of these are not true.
The request of getting a video is unreasonable because no good G&W would let that happen in the current meta. Several people have said this.
I never made a claim for Peach winning the MU. That thought wasn't anywhere in my mind when I made my initial post. I was calling Grim out on making fun of a statement that was reasonable except in the singular situation he mentioned after the fact. He is usually more thorough in explaining his opinions, and while I don't always agree I can usually respect them. That time? No.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
Even if G&W weren't retreating the bair, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could SDI entirely through it.

The idea with bair is to hit with the tip of it, this has been the case for years now. So when I laughed at the statement "I can SDI through bair and punish it", I was laughing because he was either talking about a super deep bair (which is like saying Falco's laser is bad because of the horrible ending lag when you do it on the ground) or suggesting something that just isn't possible (at least, in my experience, which is why I wanted to see a video).

I didn't feel like thoroughly explaining my opinion after this "Rah rah, you have no idea what my options are, you've only played against bad Peaches" nonsense. The hypocrisy was too great.
 

Dark.Pch

Smash Legend
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
16,918
Location
Manhattan, New York
NNID
Dark.Pch
3DS FC
5413-0118-3799
^What G&Ws did you play at APEX 2013?

Edit, nevermind. MUs are somewhat subjective. Just because someone (or many people) disagree with you it doesn't make them uninformed or stupid to do so.
/These threads are trash with a few gems tossed in here and there but still trash. The gems get smothered in spam and trolling. :urg:
I don't remember his name. I played of people a hell lot of people there. I not enter this year due to low funds. So I just went to have fun and play all sorts of people. But whoever that guy was, he punished me pretty hard for playing flow chart happy. From there I decided to see what was giving me so much trouble. And just what I did for him to get all these hits and kills. From there I figured out what to do. We played some more and I changed how I played. And I started dishing out the wins on him. Those ass whippings help me figure out what to do. I understood what he does and how I should deal with it. The Smart way. And how to avoid the **** he needs to get damage and kills. Also the correct way to approach him which I was doing it so wrong.

Your method on SDI with his bar is wrong. Your bair is a horizontal hit box. If I smash DI up and you go in, I get a counter attack. If I smash DI up and away as you pull back, I am in no bad position For I move away from you. The last Part of the bair is what has the most knock back. Which I avoid within 2-3 hits of his bair. If you pull away and I decided to smash DI towards you, upon your landing I could get a possible nair punish. If not I end up over and I have to guess if you would evade, block or p-B again. As for a video, I can make this no problem. Next time I am at my friends house playing smash, I'll do it on stream and have him edit that and upload it. This would be a good educational vid for Peach players on the ways to smash DI is bair and what can you do after it. Now I think I will do this with other things for my students to learn more from. Something good came out from this after all.

I don't understand how you confuse so much what I am sating with his up-B dude. I was never talking about punishing that move. Look carefully at what I been saying. I am taking about the options I have to punish him AS HE IS COMING DOWN. Which was the whole point of the sharking method via wave dashing. Again, I am not taking about PUSHINING THE UP-B. I CAN'T. I-SIMPLY-CAN'T. I am talking about getting him ON THE WAY DOWN. ON-THE-WAY-DOWN!

Also I was not flaming you, insulting you or anything of the sort. Though me correcting you tend to think so. Though this is not the first time. People always assume the worst of me so I just let it rock. if you wanna believe based on YOUR experience that Peach loses, you go right ahead and hold that to the chest. I don't care for I don't believe that, even if I can not really give a ratio for reasons I already stated. I also don't believe you know many match ups involving my character if that is what you mean. You best of saying I know what I should and should not be doing WITH THE CHARACTER YOU ARE USUING. But based on what I been hearing from you, I would not believe that either. Nor would i believe you being able to tell me How Peach would handle said match up. Her options. What to look out for, what she can and can't do. How to deal with bad situations, etc. Im sorry but I just can't believe you. Though that does not mean you should change how you feel. If you think its +1 for you then hold that reguardless what anyone says. For I always do the same with what I say. Which is me not believing any of that and reasons why.

But just to get this out there for those (maybe even you) that think im just some bias a-hole. If what I said made you feel stupid and etc, I am sorry. I am quite stern when I speak. Which is why people might assume so much crap from me without asking or getting to know me. but that's just how I am. Think I get it from my mother. I rather not have enemies and try to be cool with everyone. those that met me in tournaments and played with me can vouch for that. I am a totally different person then this so called image people have of me and spread around. Those people just never take the time to actually get to know me. But can't have everyone like you, Someone is bond to dislike you no matter how you are. Can't please everyone so you should not change to do so and just be you.

Lastly, you should NEVER feel the need you can't state your peace in here. Anyone can learn from anyone. People who say otherwise are full of BS. I can learn just as much from a person below my skill level as from a person on it or above it. Like seriously dude, don't you know who I am? I'm Dark.Pch. I'm one of the most hated players in this community. Lots of people wanna try to get and me and put me down for their own stupid reasons. Even my so called friends in the community have done it. Then others just go by what they hear and jump in on it so to sound funny only and get cheap laughs to feel cool and humorous. Then seek for more of that. And with all that, I still stand for what I believe in in this community. I always go by what I feel no matter what. With this character, I am usually fighting alone against 100000000000000+ of smashers here who don't agree and some random a-holes on the side trying to put me down. I hardly have any support in these things. No back up, no hype, no vouches, nothing. I do these things alone against a large number of people here. I get insulted, people wanna troll me, etc. End of the day I don't care. cause these people don't mean **** to me to a point I am gonna get discourage and change my mind about what I say or give up. I stand my ground against anyone, noob or pro. One's status in the community does not mean anything to me at all when it comes to stuff like this. I been doing this for a long time. And I am not gonna stop here.

So don't back out and ditch a thread cause of stuff like that, unless you really feel you can't stand your own ground. I been at it with the smash community for years. So I know how it is like.
 

thrillagorilla

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
861
Location
Jefferson, USA
Even if G&W weren't retreating the bair, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could SDI entirely through it.
Its been done. Still, if you don't mind a demonstration video as opposed to it being done in match, I could try and whip something up for you and upload it.

The idea with bair is to hit with the tip of it, this has been the case for years now. So when I laughed at the statement "I can SDI through bair and punish it", I was laughing because he was either talking about a super deep bair (which is like saying Falco's laser is bad because of the horrible ending lag when you do it on the ground) or suggesting something that just isn't possible (at least, in my experience, which is why I wanted to see a video).
Fair enough. Still, even alluding to this would have kept my yap shut. :laugh:

I didn't feel like thoroughly explaining my opinion after this "Rah rah, you have no idea what my options are, you've only played against bad Peaches" nonsense. The hypocrisy was too great.
This reminds me of something. I can message you about it later if you want to know random funny BS smash community history.
 

Zyskyoto

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
129
I don't remember his name. I played of people a hell lot of people there. I not enter this year due to low funds. So I just went to have fun and play all sorts of people. But whoever that guy was, he punished me pretty hard for playing flow chart happy. From there I decided to see what was giving me so much trouble. And just what I did for him to get all these hits and kills. From there I figured out what to do. We played some more and I changed how I played. And I started dishing out the wins on him. Those *** whippings help me figure out what to do. I understood what he does and how I should deal with it. The Smart way. And how to avoid the **** he needs to get damage and kills. Also the correct way to approach him which I was doing it so wrong.

Your method on SDI with his bar is wrong. Your bair is a horizontal hit box. If I smash DI up and you go in, I get a counter attack. If I smash DI up and away as you pull back, I am in no bad position For I move away from you. The last Part of the bair is what has the most knock back. Which I avoid within 2-3 hits of his bair. If you pull away and I decided to smash DI towards you, upon your landing I could get a possible nair punish. If not I end up over and I have to guess if you would evade, block or p-B again. As for a video, I can make this no problem. Next time I am at my friends house playing smash, I'll do it on stream and have him edit that and upload it. This would be a good educational vid for Peach players on the ways to smash DI is bair and what can you do after it. Now I think I will do this with other things for my students to learn more from. Something good came out from this after all.

I don't understand how you confuse so much what I am sating with his up-B dude. I was never talking about punishing that move. Look carefully at what I been saying. I am taking about the options I have to punish him AS HE IS COMING DOWN. Which was the whole point of the sharking method via wave dashing. Again, I am not taking about PUSHINING THE UP-B. I CAN'T. I-SIMPLY-CAN'T. I am talking about getting him ON THE WAY DOWN. ON-THE-WAY-DOWN!

Also I was not flaming you, insulting you or anything of the sort. Though me correcting you tend to think so. Though this is not the first time. People always assume the worst of me so I just let it rock. if you wanna believe based on YOUR experience that Peach loses, you go right ahead and hold that to the chest. I don't care for I don't believe that, even if I can not really give a ratio for reasons I already stated. I also don't believe you know many match ups involving my character if that is what you mean. You best of saying I know what I should and should not be doing WITH THE CHARACTER YOU ARE USUING. But based on what I been hearing from you, I would not believe that either. Nor would i believe you being able to tell me How Peach would handle said match up. Her options. What to look out for, what she can and can't do. How to deal with bad situations, etc. Im sorry but I just can't believe you. Though that does not mean you should change how you feel. If you think its +1 for you then hold that reguardless what anyone says. For I always do the same with what I say. Which is me not believing any of that and reasons why.

But just to get this out there for those (maybe even you) that think im just some bias a-hole. If what I said made you feel stupid and etc, I am sorry. I am quite stern when I speak. Which is why people might assume so much crap from me without asking or getting to know me. but that's just how I am. Think I get it from my mother. I rather not have enemies and try to be cool with everyone. those that met me in tournaments and played with me can vouch for that. I am a totally different person then this so called image people have of me and spread around. Those people just never take the time to actually get to know me. But can't have everyone like you, Someone is bond to dislike you no matter how you are. Can't please everyone so you should not change to do so and just be you.

Lastly, you should NEVER feel the need you can't state your peace in here. Anyone can learn from anyone. People who say otherwise are full of BS. I can learn just as much from a person below my skill level as from a person on it or above it. Like seriously dude, don't you know who I am? I'm Dark.Pch. I'm one of the most hated players in this community. Lots of people wanna try to get and me and put me down for their own stupid reasons. Even my so called friends in the community have done it. Then others just go by what they hear and jump in on it so to sound funny only and get cheap laughs to feel cool and humorous. Then seek for more of that. And with all that, I still stand for what I believe in in this community. I always go by what I feel no matter what. With this character, I am usually fighting alone against 100000000000000+ of smashers here who don't agree and some random a-holes on the side trying to put me down. I hardly have any support in these things. No back up, no hype, no vouches, nothing. I do these things alone against a large number of people here. I get insulted, people wanna troll me, etc. End of the day I don't care. cause these people don't mean **** to me to a point I am gonna get discourage and change my mind about what I say or give up. I stand my ground against anyone, noob or pro. One's status in the community does not mean anything to me at all when it comes to stuff like this. I been doing this for a long time. And I am not gonna stop here.

So don't back out and ditch a thread cause of stuff like that, unless you really feel you can't stand your own ground. I been at it with the smash community for years. So I know how it is like.
lmao holy **** did you actually type all of that hahahaha wtf
 

Dark.Pch

Smash Legend
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
16,918
Location
Manhattan, New York
NNID
Dark.Pch
3DS FC
5413-0118-3799
So what if I did. What is it to you? And why should I care? If you wanna insult me like everyone else, just do it already. Or you might have already in your post.
 

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

PhD; Smash Community Studies
Premium
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
3,263
Location
Ontario, Canada
3DS FC
2191-7691-7941
So what if I did. What is it to you? And why should I care? If you wanna insult me like everyone else, just do it already. Or you might have already in your post.
Ignore Zyskyoto, he's just a troll, and not a very good one at that.

On the Melee boards he actually tried to tell me that telling someone to kill themselves is justifiable, and when I asked for his justification he never responded. Like, god damn, at least follow through on your bull****. I WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED BY STUPIDITY DAMMIT!
 

Dark.Pch

Smash Legend
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
16,918
Location
Manhattan, New York
NNID
Dark.Pch
3DS FC
5413-0118-3799
Now I actually feel stupid reply to the fool. I'll just add him on my ignore list with the rest of the idiots in this community for future reference. Think I'll cool it with who I decided to respond to from now on.
 

Dark.Pch

Smash Legend
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
16,918
Location
Manhattan, New York
NNID
Dark.Pch
3DS FC
5413-0118-3799
Then why do you have to make a post about it

Making a big deal about not caring about something is the cutest thang
You felt the need to tell me such a thing. it must have been very important to you. You telling me that means nothing to me at all. But I must be so important if you wanted to take a shot at me. Everyone wants a shot at me huh? I know I was famous but good lord. Everyone just wants some of this so they can feel good about themselves as if they actually did something. Being famous is such work sometimes *flicks hair*

I might have to start charging for this one. I could make some good money.
 

pidgezero_one

((((((((((( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) gotta go fast!
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
4,458
Location
Toronto
NNID
pidgezero_one
3DS FC
3222-5601-4071
haha you guys are dumb like i'd really stop posting here
 
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