[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[johe]

Hooray, now I can post this and not have it counted as a double post

This is all over the place so watch out, also, MK is not on this list because I think he is just fine, really good, and not overpowered, people just like to whine about him alot

Mario:
Cape gives pushback in direction the opponent is turned to face
FLUDD give dammage, flinches, and pushes opponents back moar

Ganondorf:
Lighten the lag on all his moves
More priority
Hitstun on UpB

Fox:
Bring back the shine from Melee
More priority
make his Bair is a sex kick, like Falco's

Wario:
More range
Make Waft charge faster
Make fully charged Waft more powerful than half charged Waft

Wolf:
Give him a halfway decent recovery
Make his shine a semi-spike
Make his Bair a semi-spike

Snake
Reduce the damage on F-tilt
Reduce the knockback on Utilt

Bowser
Make him heavier
Unnerf Fortress

Sheik
Make Fair give a bit more knockback

PT
No more fatigue or forced switching

Bah, I'll do more later

Also, Halo SUX

EDIT:

If liking them as a fighter is good enough, then what's so wrong about more Sonic characters (if they happen to be fun fighters)?

But it's not, I just have been talking about him from the standpoint of gameplay, I personally hate Wolf, Fox, Falco, Peach, and Sonic. All of them are either idiots, uninteresting characters, or both.

EDIT2:

all i want is NO LUCARIO. nearly any other pokemon would have been a better addition (please please replace lucario with mewtwo).

NONONONONONONONONONONO

 

[UncleSam]

I guess the whole "3rd-party" characters thing was just an experiment and people for those characters play as that character, so if they keep on bringing characters like those they should just have polls on the next site they make 4 this game.
That and you should have more letters from other languages(Japanese, korean, ect...) they did in melee, and they did in the Japanese version of the game, they had are letters in with there own.

 

[§leepy God]

I agree with most of your list of imporvment's johe, just need more buff's to Mario, most of his knock back left him in Brawl, his Down Smash and his Up Smash don't kill like they use to. I won't add more character's because you said you'll do them later. XD

 

[Pazx]

Hey, I love the spacies (not in that way you sick perverts) but, clones or not, we don't need any more, it's a lackluster series that hasn't had a new game in quite a while, and hasn't had a good game for almost a decade.

also EDIT: Krystal I, johe is a flat, uncharismatic, stock character.

*dair wolf spikes you*
You can't win this war, "You're not ready yet!"


I don't think F.L.U.D.D. should damage... maybe... but it shouldn't flinch and damage...

 

[UncleSam]

the programmers never wanted water attacks to do damage just to push your opponent but the flow should be more like Bowsers/charizards B you can direct it and it is constant(that includes the getting weaker after time part)

 

[johe]

I agree with most of your list of imporvment's johe, just need more buff's to Mario, most of his knock back left him in Brawl, his Down Smash and his Up Smash don't kill like they use to. I won't add more character's because you said you'll do them later. XD

And so it shall be done

Link
More Knockback on Spin Attack
A bad recovery
Less lag on Uair
Less lag on Ftilt

Toon Link
Dsmash should kill better
Offensivley useful Zair (it might already be, I never played him much)

Diddy Kong
Make Peanut Popgun useful
Give him a semi spike some where

Donkey Kong
Make DDD not infinite him

ICs
I can't think of a **** thing (don't play them)

Zamus
Make Fsmash useful, either less laggy or more powerful

Samus
Make Charge Shot kill again
Make her shot hop an actual short hop
Jab cancel into Dtilt needs to be possible (but SDIable)

Lucas
I don't know (don't play him)

Luigi
Make jab - Shoryuken a real combo
decrease jab range
Make the Dair spike easier

Zelda
Make her sweetspots easier

Peach
Don't play her

Falco
Make Fair more useful
Make Dair Ok to approach with

DDD
No more infinite

Lucario
Give him better knockback at 0%

Pikachu
Make Dsmash non SDIable

Jigglypuff
Unnerf rest
Make sing bad

ROB
Is Fair a semispike? if not, make it one
Faster laser recharge time
Gyro charges faster
More range on Fsmash
Make his reflector come out faster

Olimar
Make UpB sweetspot if it knocks someone off the ledge

more to come later

@Sleepy One:
My idea with Mario was to make him a good edge guarder, so he doesn't need more knockback.

EDIT:

*dair wolf spikes you*
You can't win this war, "You're not ready yet!"


I don't think F.L.U.D.D. should damage... maybe... but it shouldn't flinch and damage...

Ur doing it rong
"Shine spikes you"

EDIT2: FLUDD is useful now, but imagine the cool combo's that mario could pull off with a move with as little pushback as FLUDD.

 

[UncleSam]

Toon Link
Dsmash should kill better
Offensivley useful Zair (it might already be, I never played him much)

it is but has horrible range

for IC
harder to desync (the programmers never wanted a desync but we gamers always find a way)
Lucas
new Dsmash, old one is bad
and the most important one C. Falcon
make his knee of justice just the way it used to be easy to hit the sweetspot and faster to execute

 

[johe]

and the most important one C. Falcon
make his knee of justice just the way it used to be easy to hit the sweetspot and faster to execute

Brawl+ has proven that it is easy to sweetspot, you fust have to combo into it.

Disclamer, my global change post and the character change posts are my single hope of what SSB4 will be, so imagine like they are one big post.

 

[§leepy God]

@Sleepy One: My idea with Mario was to make him a good edge guarder, so he doesn't need more knockback.

That's fine, as long as most character's in the next Smash Bros isn't floaty and can come back very easily without the edge, "look's at a lot of good recovery characters in Brawl."

 

[Pazx]

Ur doing it rong
"Shine spikes you"

First of all, wolf can't shine spike
Second, you spelt wrong wrong.
Thirdly, why'd you say "Shine spikes you"? To make an action you put asterisks there
Lastly, you have the second worst sig I've ever seen >:3

BURN!




And don't mention brawl+, hackers are just people who don't appreciate Sakurai and want to take over the world, er, game


On another note, I hope Falcon gets his combo potential back...

funny how I haven't mentioned Krystal all post...

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

srry my computer is having seizures.
http://ds.ign.com/objects/874/874110.htmlIGN wut now.
read the description and watch the videos if that's not enough proof than, well, I don't know what will make you believe me.

Umm....

Here's a quote from the link.

"Halo on the Nintendo DS? It could have been, if the deals had worked out. A major publisher began negociations with license holder Microsoft for the game to happen, and contracted a known game developer to produced a spec demo of a version of Halo for the Nintendo DS. The demo was made, the game was (according to those who played it) appropriately accurate to the Halo experience on Nintendo's little handheld, and the talks were active in making the game happen ... and then, it was no more. Due to issues regarding the license, Halo DS was never fully produced.

A similar situation with the Halo franchise had occurred years earlier with the Game Boy Advance platform, but whether a demo or game code for GBA was ever produced is not known."

 

[johe]

First of all, wolf can't shine spike
Second, you spelt wrong wrong.
Thirdly, why'd you say "Shine spikes you"? To make an action you put asterisks there

BURN!




And don't mention brawl+, hackers are just people who don't appreciate Sakurai and want to take over the world, er, game


On another note, I hope Falcon gets his combo potential back...

funny how I haven't mentioned Krystal all post...

Ouch, I may need to go to the doctor for this burn :embarrass

Also, Sakurai is an evil ******* who did his best to ruin Brawl competitively, and pretty much succeeded. Brawl+ is fun and you should try it before you knock it.

EDIT: Trufax: I was talking about melee fox when I said shine spike

 

[UncleSam]

hacks are for once you've completed the game and gotten your full enjoyment with it than just screwing around with it
EDIT: well for me it is

 

[Pazx]

and you main MetaKnight. Smooth.

If you want what Brawl+ does, go play melee, or make your own game and stop hating sakurai.

 

[johe]

hacks are for once you've completed the game and gotten your full enjoyment with it than just screwing around with it
EDIT: well for me it is

Exactly, I got bored of Vanilla Brawl, so now I play Brawl+

More character specific buffs YAY

Ness
More range
Make PK Thunder go through people
Bring back DJC

Yoshi
Fair spikes with entire hitbox
More range
Bring back DJC

Pit
More knockback

Ike
A bit faster
A bit less lag

Marth
More range than MK
More consistent tippers (it seems like I don't tipper when I should)

Kirby
No idea

Sonic
Douse him in gasoline and then light him on fire.

EDIT:

and you main MetaKnight. Smooth.

If you want what Brawl+ does, go play melee, or make your own game and stop hating sakurai.

Go to the FAQ in my sig and read question 3

 

[Kraryo]

I think that Sakurai just doesn't know any better. He doesn't know that depth makes a game better and funner. The SSE, tripping, and all of the other pointless extra features are just like an appendix. It's useless and can even be harmful (the SSE made Brawl a dual-layered disk and that makes it hard for the Wii to read Brawl at times and tripping is useless and harmful at the same time as well).

If Sakurai was a surgeon, then he would put appendixes that are about to burst into people while forgetting to wash his hands. Sure, he would get fired, but Sakurai wouldn't know any better.

 

[johe]

If Sakurai was a surgeon, then he would put appendixes that are about to burst into people while forgetting to wash his hands. Sure, he would get fired, but Sakurai wouldn't know any better.

I must sig that.

 

[UncleSam]

oh, so that's what Brawl+ was, I saw it on youtube and it looked awesome

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Diskun would'nt have to be 2-D. And like it or not we're going to get another novelty character. And a great example of Sakurai's stupidity: 'Ridley is too slow to be a character'. Real quote.

That's not really a good example, since it was like a joke - he laughed after saying it. His reasoning seems to be more along the lines of "Ridley is a character suited to boss roles" (not a quote).

Just because he doesn't feel a character you want should be playable doesn't make him stupid, and it's pretty petty to say so.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I think that Sakurai just doesn't know any better. He doesn't know that depth makes a game better and funner. The SSE, tripping, and all of the other pointless extra features are just like an appendix. It's useless and can even be harmful (the SSE made Brawl a dual-layered disk and that makes it hard for the Wii to read Brawl at times and tripping is useless and harmful at the same time as well).

If Sakurai was a surgeon, then he would put appendixes that are about to burst into people while forgetting to wash his hands. Sure, he would get fired, but Sakurai wouldn't know any better.

Or, y'know, he just has opinions that differ from you. Because that's a terrible thing and all. >_>

As for the dual layered disk comment, he tried to ADD something to Brawl that quite a few people enjoy. I wouldn't call it a "pointless extra feature" even if I hated it. As for it making the disk dual-layered and causing problems, it was just a mistake. Didn't they make a fix to that problem like, immediately after it happened anyway?

Aaaaanyway, back on topic... about how many characters do you guys think SSB4 will end up having? I'll guess 50.

Spoiler

Which was also my guess for Brawl. D:

 

[Pazx]

You guys should respect Sakurai more... wait, that sounds like someone... OH NOES! I'M TURNING INTO SPADEFOX!!!

 

[johe]

You guys should respect Sakurai more... wait, that sounds like someone... OH NOES! I'M TURNING INTO SPADEFOX!!!

OH NOEZ!!!!!11!1!11!1

*Beats Pazx over head with shovel*

It's the only way to remove the infection

Also, who is Spadefox?

 

[Kraryo]

Spade Fox is that mean guy who hates Krystal.

 

[johe]

Spade Fox is that mean guy who hates Krystal.

Sounds like I would like this person. Tell me more

 

[Black Hole CO]

Aaaaanyway, back on topic... about how many characters do you guys think SSB4 will end up having? I'll guess 50.

That would be really nice, also it would make All Star mode really not nice

 

[C.Olimar788]

That would be really nice, also it would make All Star mode really not nice

Yeah... maybe they could pull off some 4-player battles along with the Melee style? :/ Either in the Brawl style two-trade off or just your versus four.

 

[johe]

Fine, I'll do things the boring way and stay on topic

I really, really, really, really want a good custom stage builder. Maybe something with the level of freedom that LBP allows.

 

[Black Hole CO]

They should let you design your own backgrounds, and stage parts too. make the builder way more complex.
EDIT: and you should be able to import your own music for your custom stages

 

[zacharia zako]

if they didnt have the stupid SSE they could have room for so many more things like more stage builder options.

stage builder should have the freedom of forge on halo 3. More parts, no stupid grided restrictions, and maybe like custom parts and other stuff like that.

if only they didnt have the sse.........

 

[johe]

We need a better online mode. 6 frames of lag makes me sad.

 

[majora_787]

1. I agree, Replace Lucario with Mewtwo, or give a new psychic pokemon his same moveset.

2. Ridley is faster than Bowser by over 24 mph, and I am not saying that to be a nerd. I am comparing to his waddles in every single game to Ridley's movement in MP1 and MP3.

3. Boss role my $&#. Bowser, Wolf, DDD and Meta Knight have all been bosses, and look where they got! Ridley had appearences TWICE where he was not much taller than Samus. -_-

I don't care what he says about Ridley, he has no good excuse to not make him playable. SPEED? No. Bowser is slower. SIZE? Half the roster is resized. BOSS? There are 4 bosses on the roster.

As a matter of fact, when Melee wasn't coming out...my friend wanted Bowser. Know what I said? "He's so big he would break the game. Plus, why would they make a boss playable? That NEVER happens."

...This is no time for my past words to be RIGHT for once. -_-

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

3. Boss role my $&#. Bowser, Wolf, DDD and Meta Knight have all been bosses, and look where they got! Ridley had appearences TWICE where he was not much taller than Samus.

The difference is that all four of those have shapes that are more "normal" (with Metaknight being a slight exception). Not Ridley.

What are those two appearances? The original Metroid shouldn't be counted as he never appeared like that again (not even in Zero Mission).

I don't care what he says about Ridley, he has no good excuse to not make him playable. SPEED? No. Bowser is slower. SIZE? Half the roster is resized. BOSS? There are 4 bosses on the roster.

Speed isn't an actual reason (I can't imagine that he seriously meant he couldn't get Ridley in because he was slow), half the roster being resized doesn't mean much when they aren't as dependent on their size as Ridley is (look at him in Brawl and imagine what he'd be like if he was at Bowser size), and you know what I meant by "boss role".

As a matter of fact, when Melee wasn't coming out...my friend wanted Bowser. Know what I said? "He's so big he would break the game. Plus, why would they make a boss playable? That NEVER happens."

...This is no time for my past words to be RIGHT for once. -_-

Bowser's size is more variable than Ridley's, and typically he wasn't as big compared to Mario as Ridley is compared to Samus anyway.

 

[majora_787]

The difference is that all four of those have shapes that are more "normal" (with Metaknight being a slight exception). Not Ridley.

What are those two appearances? The original Metroid shouldn't be counted as he never appeared like that again (not even in Zero Mission).



Speed isn't an actual reason (I can't imagine that he seriously meant he couldn't get Ridley in because he was slow), half the roster being resized doesn't mean much when they aren't as dependent on their size as Ridley is (look at him in Brawl and imagine what he'd be like if he was at Bowser size), and you know what I meant by "boss role".



Bowser's size is more variable than Ridley's, and typically he wasn't as big compared to Mario as Ridley is compared to Samus anyway.

1. If there's an exception who is not as important as Ridley, then there was no point in you saying anything there.

2. Melee and the original Metroid. And in that case, no mario game should be counted. He only maintained one single size in about TWO games, 64 and 64DS. Every other game he was in had a bizarre size change. Sports games never count.

3. Bowser changes his size every other game at the SLOWEST. And I don't think it would hurt if they made Ridley even the TINIEST bit taller than Bowser. He's bigger than bowser about 70% of the time anyway. And if the other bosses are not counted as having boss roles, then no. No I do not know what you meant.

 

[Black Hole CO]

Yeah, in Super mario bros mario was half bowsers size, in super mario world, mario was the size of his head, in super mario sunshine, mario was about the size of bowsers finger.
on the other side of the spectrum, olimar is about the size of a quarter.
size dosent matter in brawl, and the way ridley is in the 2d games, hes sorta hunched over.

 

[kuro06]

Out of curiousity, is Olimar really a size of a quarter, or that's just an educational guess on how big he is? As for Ridley can't really see him as a playable character in my eyes without dumbing him down a lot.

 

[The_Prince]

I think it would be pretty awkward playing with a character that flies most of the time. Ridley hardly ever stands. They'd have to make him REALLY REALLY slow on the ground or something while still making him beastly in the air without being broken.

 

[§leepy God]

Out of curiousity, is Olimar really a size of a quarter, or that's just an educational guess on how big he is? As for Ridley can't really see him as a playable character in my eyes without dumbing him down a lot.

In the book, it said that Olimar is a size of a quarter, and Ridley is a size of a planet small building. Ridley's case, they have to ton him down a lot, like they did to Samus and Kirby or he would be too broken.

 

[Black Hole CO]

i believe (and im not certain) it was in the pikmin instruction manual where they say that. heck, he might even be smaller, judging by the size of some of the IRL things he finds, like a battery and such.

well ridley wont have the same moves as in his boss appearances, that is true, but i have faith that they wont screw it up :D

Anyway as a change of subject, What music do yall think should make it in smash 4?
my main picks are:
Advance wars (songs would have to be remastered for console quality):
Andys anthem: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=o3ROMToF_Us
Sturms theme: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=en-7nzSphdk
Super CO Power: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=RtovlHjBtS8
Supreme Logician: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=57CKQNmYeUQ

F-zero:
Captain falcons theme: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=lWg3A5KG3Pw
Black Shadows theme: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=TiIQEpBXkh4

Mother:
Natural killer cyborg: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=lHEhkeRlldQ

Those are just a few of my picks, i could do this all day but ill let you guys pick some ;D

 

[majora_787]

Since when does size have anything to do with BROKEN? We have BROKEN #1 who's the size of Kirby, BROKEN #2 who's the size of Captain Falcon, and BROKEN #3 who's a little shorter than Bowser.

Even if Ridley is broken, I want him in the game because there is no reason for him NOT to be in. I mean, we have the primary antagonists of Starfox/Mario/Kirby in the game already.

Now, I could pull the size argument on any popular antagonist who REALLY needs to be in smash. ANY of them. But since they've added the most resized primary antagonist in Nintendo HISTORY and he turned out okay, there is really no reason to not have either of the other big bad reptiles in the game.

And again, would it be SO AWEFUL if Ridley, upright, was a tiny bit larger than Bowser? Odds are, he would be hunched over and on all fours mostly. He fought on land that way in MP3. And before anyone says so, YES I am basing it off Metroid Prime. YES I believe they would base his land combat off of that. MP was the ONLY subseries where Ridley fought on the ground.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

1. If there's an exception who is not as important as Ridley, then there was no point in you saying anything there.

2. Melee and the original Metroid. And in that case, no mario game should be counted. He only maintained one single size in about TWO games, 64 and 64DS. Every other game he was in had a bizarre size change. Sports games never count.

3. Bowser changes his size every other game at the SLOWEST. And I don't think it would hurt if they made Ridley even the TINIEST bit taller than Bowser. He's bigger than bowser about 70% of the time anyway. And if the other bosses are not counted as having boss roles, then no. No I do not know what you meant.

1. I should have phrased that better. Metaknight and Ridley don't have normal builds, but Ridley has a build (and stances) that lend themselves much better to larger sizes, unlike Bowser or K. Rool who could be pretty much any size.

2 and 3. Bowser isn't super consistent with size, but he's usually not super-massive compared to Mario. See:

Super Mario Bros. - he's about 1.5 times as big as Super Mario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yl_XPkcTl4

Super Mario Bros. 3 - he's slightly larger than Mario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9gd2yhKA_M

Super Mario World - we can't see all of him, but he's probably twice the size

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRjMiJtzJkQ

Super Mario 64 - about three times as tall as Mario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O6eJAler08

Super Mario Sunshine - much, much larger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xothRxt7yOg

Super Mario Galaxy - about the same as SM64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBCJLinxt2k

Paper Mario (and the rest of them) - about twice the size

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS5c_DyI6lU

So he's generally pretty consistent. However, the important thing isn't really his size. He could have his Sunshine size every single game, and he still wouldn't really be "too big" because he has a very basic, humanoid build that scales down easily, which Ridley really doesn't.

Which is basically what I meant by "boss type". You could easily see Bowser, Wolf, or Metaknight being regular playable in their respective games (and they sometimes are), but Ridley is different.