Ike is NOT Mid-mid.
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
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Pit's arrows are too fast for her to spam Din's fire against. Any time you try it he can hit you with an arrow. Pit is better off up close.
Falco likewise can peg you with a couple of lasers if you try Din's fire and again is a bit better on the close game. Not a tremendous advantage but its there.
Zelda doesn't have any particular disadvantage against the iceclimbers but their chaingrabs give them overall more advantageous matchups than Zelda.
G&W has a pretty good advantage over Zelda. His bucket prevents Din's fire spam and his quick, disjointed f and b airs and overall aggressiveness is pretty hard for Zelda to deal with.
MK's speed is very hard for Zelda to handle. Its not a particular problem with Zelda MK is just better than most characters and Zelda isn't an exception.
Same with Snake. He's just better than the rest of the cast. Din's fire spam is hard to do with explosions all around you. Snake can KO Zelda fairly easily and Zelda has a harder time KOing him due to weight and recovery.
Toon Link isn't that much better than Zelda. Probably abouot even but Toon Link is a more well rounded character and his combination of projectiles and a decent close game gives him better matchups overall.
Falco likewise can peg you with a couple of lasers if you try Din's fire and again is a bit better on the close game. Not a tremendous advantage but its there.
Zelda doesn't have any particular disadvantage against the iceclimbers but their chaingrabs give them overall more advantageous matchups than Zelda.
G&W has a pretty good advantage over Zelda. His bucket prevents Din's fire spam and his quick, disjointed f and b airs and overall aggressiveness is pretty hard for Zelda to deal with.
MK's speed is very hard for Zelda to handle. Its not a particular problem with Zelda MK is just better than most characters and Zelda isn't an exception.
Same with Snake. He's just better than the rest of the cast. Din's fire spam is hard to do with explosions all around you. Snake can KO Zelda fairly easily and Zelda has a harder time KOing him due to weight and recovery.
Toon Link isn't that much better than Zelda. Probably abouot even but Toon Link is a more well rounded character and his combination of projectiles and a decent close game gives him better matchups overall.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Pit can outcamp Zelda if need to be. Anytime she uses Din's fire he can hit her with an arrow. As for reflecting it she can but there is noticable lag on Nayru's love that can be taken advantage of.
Valid point against the Iceclimbers but again I think their chaingrabs warrant an overall higher position.
MK does overall have better matchups than MK and I think that his speed gives her serious problems here. She's not dominated but he he's better. Din's fire can be hard to land on him just based on his speed.
I actually didn't know that his Usmash could be reflected. Useful info thanks! Still his overall strength and speed gives him an advantage.
As for Toon Link I guess we'll see how the matchups work out as the competitive scene is better developed. I hope you're right seeing as Zelda is my main.
Valid point against the Iceclimbers but again I think their chaingrabs warrant an overall higher position.
MK does overall have better matchups than MK and I think that his speed gives her serious problems here. She's not dominated but he he's better. Din's fire can be hard to land on him just based on his speed.
I actually didn't know that his Usmash could be reflected. Useful info thanks! Still his overall strength and speed gives him an advantage.
As for Toon Link I guess we'll see how the matchups work out as the competitive scene is better developed. I hope you're right seeing as Zelda is my main.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
well of course MK deserves a higher spot in the tier list, however, in a 1 v. 1 match, I think it's a pretty even matchup... maybe even the tiniest bit in zelda's favour since she has a lot of special problems for MK...
with snake it's the other way around because she poses so few special problems.
honestly MK's speed is the only thing saving him from complete decimation at the hands of zelda... it's a big factor, but it isn't big enough to give him an advantage. din's fire FORCES him to approach, and zelda is someone even MK has a tough time approaching.
I've played against MKs, and as long as you stay defensive, this match is not overly difficult.
TehBo49
Smash Ace
Switch Pikachu & Dedede, & put Olimar in mid-high. Put Wario & Wolf in low-high, & switch Kirby & Fox. The rest is, for the most part, okay.
Pieisthebest
Smash Apprentice
Coments please ;_;
God-Strength Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Top-Strength Tier:
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Falco
Zelda
Pit
Pikachu
Really-High-Strength Tier:
Pikmin & Olimar
Mr. Game & Watch
Dedede
Marth
High-Strength Tier:
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Wario
Ice climbers
Diddy Kong
Middle-Strength Tier:
Fox
Kirby
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Lucario
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Shiek
Ike
Low-Strength Tier:
Mario
Jigglypuff
Bowser
Lucas
Ness
Samus
Really-Low_Strength Tier:
Link
Sonic
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
God-Strength Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Top-Strength Tier:
R.O.B.
Toon Link
Falco
Zelda
Pit
Pikachu
Really-High-Strength Tier:
Pikmin & Olimar
Mr. Game & Watch
Dedede
Marth
High-Strength Tier:
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Wario
Ice climbers
Diddy Kong
Middle-Strength Tier:
Fox
Kirby
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Lucario
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Shiek
Ike
Low-Strength Tier:
Mario
Jigglypuff
Bowser
Lucas
Ness
Samus
Really-Low_Strength Tier:
Link
Sonic
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
For the last 10 pages i have seen ganondorf over captain falcon. Come on now, Captain Falcon has way more favorable matches.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
captain falcon has one favourable matchup total.... ganondorf has at least a few
Pieisthebest
Smash Apprentice
Explain ;>_>
Does it matter how many devisions there are?
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
LOL WHAT?
You cannot be serious..... I'm pretty sure just about everyone has an advantage over the piece of crap CF has basicially become. Ganon at least makes every hit worth it, and has a viable approach and Tech chasing ability. CF doesn't even have that.....
You cannot be serious..... I'm pretty sure just about everyone has an advantage over the piece of crap CF has basicially become. Ganon at least makes every hit worth it, and has a viable approach and Tech chasing ability. CF doesn't even have that.....
TehBo49
Smash Ace
Captain Falcon has no advantages; at best, he has even matchups. At least Ganondorf can beat a few characters (Ike's one, can't think of the rest).
ICANTCOUNT123456
Smash Journeyman
People.... Brawl CF >>> Melee Pichu. Brawl CF is GOD compared to Pichu.
TehBo49
Smash Ace
That doesn't change the fact that he has no good matchups. In fact, Pichu had good matchups (Kirby & Mewtwo).
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
Those points are fair enough i guess.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
even captain falcon... clearly the worst, is not "crap" I don't think... not by most standards of the word... just as niether MK nor snake is "god"
^^You don't use him right 
yeah, even though falcon isn't unplayable, compared to every other character he isn't as good. I mean, a skilled player could take down a worse on with falcon/ganon, but why do that when you could walk all over them with any other character.
Ganon has a good tech-chase, and an occasional 50% combo. At least he hsa that going for him >_<
Falcon just has a decent speed, but that doesn't really help him much
yeah, even though falcon isn't unplayable, compared to every other character he isn't as good. I mean, a skilled player could take down a worse on with falcon/ganon, but why do that when you could walk all over them with any other character.
Ganon has a good tech-chase, and an occasional 50% combo. At least he hsa that going for him >_<
Falcon just has a decent speed, but that doesn't really help him much
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
lol >_>
10 chars
10 chars
Grunt
Smash Master
One move isn't a combo. XD
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
His Flame choke to Wizard's Foot/Dair isn't a slouch either >_>.
Altough I kinda have trouble with auto-cancelling with hm because I'm so used to a character like Meta-Knight where lag isn't in your vocabulary.
Altough I kinda have trouble with auto-cancelling with hm because I'm so used to a character like Meta-Knight where lag isn't in your vocabulary.
the_Capt_Falcon_Master
Smash Lord
as much as i love falcon, pichu aint in brawl and falcon IS crap this time around.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
if you are an MK, lag should be a very familiar part of your vocab
it's often used in the phrase "I will now punish my foe's lag"
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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No, actually Melee Mewtwo is godly compared to Brawl Captain Falcon. So is Pichu.
Both Mewtwo and Pichu actually have priority. They also have projectile spam. Pichu in particular has non-telegraphed kill moves, and some pretty strong ones. Mewtwo has amazing throws.
Captain Falcon in Brawl doesn't have any of those advantages.
I said earlier if I thought anyone was worse than Falcon, it was Ivysaur, but I really dunno. I said Ivysaur was worse because it lacked ANY recovery and because its damage output was the worst ever, but eh.
Ganondorf is clearly better than Falcon with his superior combos and kill options. Yeah, he has more and better legit combos than Falcon.
The fact Ganondorf can autocancel D-airs gives him an attack that can do everything, while Falcon doesn't have anything close to doing that.
Gindler
Smash Champion
Here's my only comment...Yoshi? why does every tier list leave out one character?
Grunt
Smash Master
NO WAI?!?!?! a 50% Combo?!
Ganon for Top tier, obviously.
Ganon for Top tier, obviously.
Nigerian Star Storm
Smash Ace
O SNAP YA GOT ME <_><>_<>_<><_><>_>
Grunt
Smash Master
It's a bird, it's a plane, no, it's!
SARCASM!!!!
1. I second Ganon, i was making a joke.
2. yes i know he sucks.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
because noones knows how much hes improved scince melee,yoshi is prolly the most underrated character right now.
IC are the l337ness now,they gonna be upper tier for sho!
It was sarcasm generated by you being peeved that I insulted you, and trying to out "zing" me. But it failed. Cause by making it sound like I was saying ganon's 50% combo made him good, you just made yourself look stupid
Lesson: when trying to spar wittily, make sure that you don't type something stupid, even if it sounded cool when you first thought of it
Grunt
Smash Master
No, i already knew about the murder combo, it's not new to me, i was being a smart-***.
Ditto can go for you too.
the internet is confusing.
we need tone of voice, or meaningless arguments will arise.
Lesson: when trying to spar wittily, make sure that you don't type something stupid, even if it sounded cool when you first thought of it
Ditto can go for you too.
the internet is confusing.
we need tone of voice, or meaningless arguments will arise.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
ganon has a run? He has a purposeful walk... but I've never seen him "run" at least not in a way that wouldn't shame me as a cross-country runner
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