Nintendog for Super Smash Bros. 4 Wii U/3DS! (Assist Trophy status confirmed)

[MexM]

Oh? Are they? Answer me this then. Mario is a trademarked character. Link is a trademarked character. Pokemon are trademarked characters. You may use none of those characters in a video game of your own without getting permission first, lest you want to get into legal troubles. If you started selling your own unlicensed copies of "Mario's Brownie Bash" on Steam, oh boy, you'd be in some deep **** with Nintendo's legal team.

So tell me, since Dalmatians are a type of Nintendog, are you saying those are copyrighted too? Can I not use a dalmatian in my own game without crediting Nintendo first? After all, they are video game characters as much as Mario and Link are since Nintendogs has them. Like it or not, that is literally what you are implying if you say they're as much of a video game character as Mario or Link is.

You can't copyright an existing species of animal, meaning you can't copyright the breeds in Nintendogs. The brand is all Nintendo has control over. Any other 3rd party could just as easily make their own dog simulator on the PS Vita and have no issues getting it published and sold.

Only if they are as registered as Nintendogs. There has been thousands of rip-offs of Mario and Pokémon over the years where they are basically the same with just a few exceptions and changing names and nothing happens.

http://nintendogspluscats.nintendo.com/

My point is that, as trademarked as Nintendogs, they are videogame characters just like any other. If they have a generic design which is basically the same as real life counterpart is just another issue, but that doesn't make them any less Nintendo than others.

 

[CalumG]

Only if they are as registered as Nintendogs. There has been thousands of rip-offs of Mario and Pokémon over the years where they are basically the same with just a few exceptions and changing names and nothing happens.

http://nintendogspluscats.nintendo.com/

My point is that, as trademarked as Nintendogs, they are videogame characters just like any other. If they have a generic design which is basically the same as real life counterpart is just another issue, but that doesn't make them any less Nintendo than others.

Difference is, you can only trademark the name of Nintendogs. Their likeness, behaviours, varieties and sounds cannot be trademarked. Their image, for all intents and purposes, is not a property of Nintendo - it's public domain.

 

[MexM]

^This. Everything about this.

Seriously, with some of the threads on Smashboards, I honestly do feel like people are using Wii Fit Trainer (for her so-called 'wtf factor') and Villager (since it showed Sakurai going back on his previous word) as an excuse to turn the SSB4 Character Discussion into an anything-goes kind of frenzy where every character and non-character to ever grace a Nintendo game is suddenly fair play.

EDIT: And this doesn't really affect the thread one way or the other but I'm gonna have to correct this piece of misinformation.



Nope. Pokemon Trainer, though unnamed, is quite visibly and obviously Red, a character from Pokemon with a backstory and personality. It's not some generic dude, he's a re-occurring staple of the series and the Kanto champion.

Well, it's still better than anime characters and Sony and Microsoft characters. I know perfectly who is Red, if you have seen on other threads I have mentioned him. But the PT in Brawl isn't clearly Red. There's a reason he isn't named Red. He is just to represent what a Pokémon Trainer is. If he is Red, why his trophy only mentions generic Pokémon trainer info instead of Red data?

Difference is, you can only trademark the name of Nintendogs. Their likeness, behaviours, varieties and sounds cannot be trademarked. Their image, for all intents and purposes, is not a property of Nintendo - it's public domain.

You got a point there sir. I think we just came into an agreement.

 

[CalumG]

Well, it's still better than anime characters and Sony and Microsoft characters. I know perfectly who is Red, if you have seen on other threads I have mentioned him. But the PT in Brawl isn't clearly Red. There's a reason he isn't named Red. He is just to represent what a Pokémon Trainer is. If he is Red, why his trophy only mentions generic Pokémon trainer info instead of Red data?

Show me the difference.

 

[MexM]

Show me the difference.

omg liek the 3d Yeah I know that. But sadly, the fact that his trophy gives generic info about a Pokémon trainer itself (like a class) and him not being named Red are points agaisnt him. But on the other side, his appareance marks only Red/Blue to LeafGreen/FireRed. I just wish Sakurai could just confirm if he is PT or not. Ya know, Red is my favorite character of Pokémon, I was considering using a 3D model of him of pixvim or something like that for my profile picture.

 

[CalumG]

omg liek the 3d Yeah I know that. But sadly, the fact that his trophy gives generic info about a Pokémon trainer itself (like a class) and him not being named Red are points agaisnt him. But on the other side, his appareance marks only Red/Blue to LeafGreen/FireRed. I just wish Sakurai could just confirm if he is PT or not. Ya know, Red is my favorite character of Pokémon, I was considering using a 3D model of him of pixvim or something like that for my profile picture.

Partially, I think the reason Pokemon Trainer isn't called Red is because of the ability to change the characters name in Pokemon games. That being said, I think the reason his trophy doesn't have a whole lot of description about his character (beating Giovanni, becoming Kanto Champion, residing at Mt. Silver etc.) is because unfortunately, Sakurai doesn't seem to know a whole lot about Pokemon (or doesn't research it thoroughly enough). Saffron City in Smash 64 doesn't resemble Saffron in any sense (aside from a building having "Silph Co." written down it), Pokemon Stadium (both versions) and Poke-Floats are pretty much plucked out of thin air and don't resemble real Pokemon locations, and even Spear Pillar is pretty questionable in terms of how accurate it is to the games. Lucario's aura mechanic seems to be plucked out of thin air too. It's a shame really, because Sakurai seems to do some half-arsed research for some franchises (Pokemon, Metroid, Wario), and with other franchises he gets every little detail spot on.

But now I'm getting off topic.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Only if they are as registered as Nintendogs. There has been thousands of rip-offs of Mario and Pokémon over the years where they are basically the same with just a few exceptions and changing names and nothing happens.

You're not going this about the same level I am.

This, this guy. Say we develop and publish, meaning set up to be sold for profit, a video game that features a near exact portrayal of this character. Red hat, blue overalls, black mustache and brown hair... Oh, but we didn't name him Mario. We named him Nathan, Nathan the Mexican electrician. We developed his model ourselves, we got our publisher's sponsor from Sega, and we sold this game on the Xbox One. Unless you are blindly clinging to the notion that you cannot possibly be wrong about any of this, it should be apparent to you that Nintendo can shut down or even fine the developers for using Mario's likeness without permission. If we took the exact same scenario and applied it to a breed from Nintendogs, there's suddenly no issue whatsoever. As long as they're not calling it a Nintendog, it's fair use. This isn't hard to understand.

http://nintendogspluscats.nintendo.com/

My point is that, as trademarked as Nintendogs, they are videogame characters just like any other. If they have a generic design which is basically the same as real life counterpart is just another issue, but that doesn't make them any less Nintendo than others.

Notice that the trademark is of the game Nintendogs, not the individual species. Yes, the brand is copyrighted. No, the dogs are not. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not saying they're not video game characters, but to say that they're just as much of video game characters as established, trademarked characters like Link, Fox, and Kirby is a sad mistake. If you want Nintendogs as characters, fine, that's one thing. Please don't suddenly credit them being anything as remotely significant as video game characters like Mario or Pikmin. That is veiling them with the credibility as characters that they lack. Again, I can argue that Keese should be playable over Nintendogs using the same logic as yours.

Nintendogs are generic purebred dogs in a licensed video game, nothing more. Smash Bros. is a game about characters, not series. A playable spot does not need to go to a real-life dog under a different name.

 

[MexM]

Partially, I think the reason Pokemon Trainer isn't called Red is because of the ability to change the characters name in Pokemon games. That being said, I think the reason his trophy doesn't have a whole lot of description about his character (beating Giovanni, becoming Kanto Champion, residing at Mt. Silver etc.) is because unfortunately, Sakurai doesn't seem to know a whole lot about Pokemon (or doesn't research it thoroughly enough). Saffron City in Smash 64 doesn't resemble Saffron in any sense (aside from a building having "Silph Co." written down it), Pokemon Stadium (both versions) and Poke-Floats are pretty much plucked out of thin air and don't resemble real Pokemon locations, and even Spear Pillar is pretty questionable in terms of how accurate it is to the games. Lucario's aura mechanic seems to be plucked out of thin air too. It's a shame really, because Sakurai seems to do some half-arsed research for some franchises (Pokemon, Metroid, Wario), and with other franchises he gets every little detail spot on.

But now I'm getting off topic.

Yeah, I was really dissapointed when I saw the "Pokémon Trainer" name as official. I mean, hundreds and hundres of people buy Smash, and in the end most who don't anything certainly other to Pokémon other than Gen 1 and Ash, will end up calling Red as "Pokémon Trainer" every time he is seen. That was the perfect moment for people to know Ash is not Red. I just hope Sakurai addresses this or at least gives Red some recognization.

Let's just end with this:

Come with us God Robert's Cousin

 

[MexM]

You're not going this about the same level I am.

This, this guy. Say we develop and publish, meaning set up to be sold for profit, a video game that features a near exact portrayal of this character. Red hat, blue overalls, black mustache and brown hair... Oh, but we didn't name him Mario. We named him Nathan, Nathan the Mexican electrician. We developed his model ourselves, we got our publisher's sponsor from Sega, and we sold this game on the Xbox One. Unless you are blindly clinging to the notion that you cannot possibly be wrong about any of this, it should be apparent to you that Nintendo can shut down or even fine the developers for using Mario's likeness without permission. If we took the exact same scenario and applied it to a breed from Nintendogs, there's suddenly no issue whatsoever. As long as they're not calling it a Nintendog, it's fair use. This isn't hard to understand.


Notice that the trademark is of the game Nintendogs, not the individual species. Yes, the brand is copyrighted. No, the dogs are not. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not saying they're not video game characters, but to say that they're just as much of video game characters as established, trademarked characters like Link, Fox, and Kirby is a sad mistake. If you want Nintendogs as characters, fine, that's one thing. Please don't suddenly credit them being anything as remotely significant as video game characters like Mario or Pikmin. That is veiling them with the credibility as characters that they lack. Again, I can argue that Keese should be playable over Nintendogs using the same logic as yours.

Nintendogs are generic purebred dogs in a licensed video game, nothing more. Smash Bros. is a game about characters, not series. A playable spot does not need to go to a real-life dog under a different name.

I'm pretty sure that if Sony/Microsoft make a game with a dog named "Nintendog" it would be sued but whatever. I didn't ever said as significant (in fact I said that in one of my points), but anyways, if Nintendo calls the dog Nintendog, it can appear in any Nintendo game as Nintendog. And that didn't stopped Nintedog from being an Assist Trophy. Now if they deserve a spot is another thing.

 

[CalumG]

In fairness, I think we've all reached an agreement here: Nintendogs are copyrighted by name only. Their name is Nintendo property but their image is not. What it really comes down to at the end of the day is whether or not Nintendo would include such a character, to whom they own the name but not the image.

And I'm pretty sure we can also all agree that, no, Nintendo would not include such a thing. They could - but they won't. /thread

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I'm pretty sure that if Sony/Microsoft make a game with a dog named "Nintendog" it would be sued but whatever. I didn't ever said as significant (in fact I said that in one of my points), but anyways, if Nintendo calls the dog Nintendog, it can appear in any Nintendo game as Nintendog. And that didn't stopped Nintedog from being an Assist Trophy. Now if they deserve a spot is another thing.

Likewise, I specifically made the point that Nintendogs under a different name would have a result from Mario under a different name.

On that note, I think we've reached just the right level to end the subject. This turned into more of an anti-support thread than I intended to make it, and for that I apologize.

I see Nintendogs as only possible Assist Trophies and a stage, nothing more. That's all I wanted to get across in the big scheme of things.

 

[MexM]

In fairness, I think we've all reached an agreement here: Nintendogs are copyrighted by name only. Their name is Nintendo property but their image is not. What it really comes down to at the end of the day is whether or not Nintendo would include such a character, to whom they own the name but not the image.

And I'm pretty sure we can also all agree that, no, Nintendo would not include such a thing. They could - but they won't. /thread

Likewise, I specifically made the point that Nintendogs under a different name would have a result from Mario under a different name.

On that note, I think we've reached just the right level to end the subject. This turned into more of an anti-support thread than I intended to make it, and for that I apologize.

I see Nintendogs as only possible Assist Trophies and a stage, nothing more. That's all I wanted to get across in the big scheme of things.

That's what I really was trying to say guys. That if Nintendog is called Nintendog by Nintendo, that 'character' is being able to be used as a videogame character. But if another company uses the same dog but doesn't use the trademark name, it's not breaking any law. lol Sorry if I didn't expressed myself better. So yeah, Nintendog can be a Smash playable character, but it's highly unlikely. Let's grab some snack now. But that doesn't mean you have to make the Nintendog fanbase feel ashamed just because they support a character.

 

[Deleted member]

Long story short: If Sakurai wanted to include a Nintendog as a playable character, then regardless of it being a photorealistic puppy, he would include it.

That being said, there is no reason to assume Sakurai would want to do such a thing. Especially since it's a photorealistic puppy.

 

[CalumG]

But that doesn't mean you have to make the Nintendog fanbase feel ashamed just because they support a character.

It's not so much making them feel ashamed for supporting the character - I'm quite honestly questioning their support itself. Threads like this smack of "Wii Fit Trainer and Villager are in, so anything goes!" rather than the 'supporters' in question genuinely wanting the character in, or finding it deserving/unique. Before Nintendogs inclusion as an Assist Trophy in Brawl or Nintendogs inclusion in that picture (next to Villager) how many people were just dying for Nintendogs inclusion in Smash? Nobody, that's who. Granted, yes, the same argument could be made for Wii Fit Trainer, but it still seems to me more like people are making threads like these as a way of saying "Wii Fit Trainer proves that Sakurai can do whatever the heck he wants" rather than being actual support threads. Nobody and I mean nobody would be particularly gutted if Nintendog wasn't included and I'm willing to bet that even the thread creator himself would only want Nintendog in the game to rustle our collective jimmies.

 

[MexM]

Long story short: If Sakurai wanted to include a Nintendog as a playable character, then regardless of it being a photorealistic puppy, he would include it.

That being said, there is no reason to assume Sakurai would want to do such a thing. Especially since it's a photorealistic puppy.

You managed to resume what both sides were trying to say despite all those posts.

 

[APC99]

God, I'm the guy who created the OP and I'm not 100% keen on putting the Nintendog in! The reason I posted this thread was for one of two things:

1. To address the fact that Sakurai said Villager and Nintendog couldn't fight, yet Villager made it in.
2. All the other Assist Trophies had threads I wanted a challenge.

I knew people would react badly to the idea of Nintendog. This was a What If? kinda post. I'm not saying that I'm going to do my best to make sure he's in the game, but I wanted to convince people that there's more possibilities than they know of. I wanted to show there is a way to do the impossible: Put a lifelike dog in a fighting game without making it look like realistic fighting. That is all. I'm not going to make VS. other characters posts. I'm not going to put a support list (unless people actually really want one). I'm not going to even make more notes on "how deserving Nintendog is." The point is, it's something nobody predicted. Nobody would ever say Nintendog has a fighting chance. Yet I'm trying to change how people think of the pup. I want people to actually say, "Y'know, that moveset by APC99 actually proved that this cute little puppy could actually be able to stand off against the likes of Solid Snake, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong and Link. Another 2 things:

1. Freedom of speech. I'm completely allowed to say Nintendog has a chance. Nobody can tell me that I'm a doo-doo head or something immature like that because I made a thread stating a life-like dog could fight in a fighting game.
2. You ALL have to admit it would be embarrassing in a tournament (or any fight at all) to lose against a puppy, much less one who doesn't even show any desire to defeat you.

 

[APC99]

OK, question time: Honest to goodness, if Nintendog were to, say, actually appear (which, again, will probably NOT happen), how would you react? Would you rage? Would you laugh? Would you go "meh?" I'd really just like to see how people react before the moveset.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have a feeling Nintendog is likely, along with Dr. Kawa(nashi??) if he wants out of the blue characters.

 

[Starcutter]

OK, question time: Honest to goodness, if Nintendog were to, say, actually appear (which, again, will probably NOT happen), how would you react? Would you rage? Would you laugh? Would you go "meh?" I'd really just like to see how people react before the moveset.

I'd sue nintendo for animal cruelty.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I'd cry and start saying we're getting too much casual-series representation and not enough Ridley.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

this would be interesting, eager to see a moveset.

 

[APC99]

I'd cry and start saying we're getting too much casual-series representation and not enough Ridley.

OK, what if Nintendog got in WITH Ridley, Meta Ridley and the Arwing/Landmaster/F-Zero Car/Ridley combo?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

you think Nintendo dogs are possible

its animal cruelity

its puppys

already and assist trophy

and its no special dog

0:24 giving the complaints again
0:38 final words

 

[APC99]

You think Nintendogs are possible? Its' animal cruelty. It's a puppy and already an assist trophy. It's no special dog.

0:24 giving the complaints again
0:38 final words

Yes, it is a puppy. Have you read my posts above? My counterpoints? I never said Nintendogs were a good choice. And by the fact that you said it was an Assist Trophy, I guess you're against Little Mac, Samurai Goroh, Isaac, Saki and Waluigi as well? I've said several times that I'm working with a friend to make a moveset where it's not directly attacking a dog. I don't see why the fact that it's a dog and not a special dog is a point. The Pikachu is not a special Pikachu, it's just a normal Pikachu. Same with all of the other Pokemon (besides Mewtwo). As for the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, it is once again freedom of speech. There is nothing you can do about this thread because you don't like the idea of Nintendog. Some do, some don't. I've never stated "DURR NINTENDOG IZ TOTALLY DA BEST FIGHTER FOR SUPER SMASH BROTHAS DERPY SLURP!" and have also replied about how Nintendog's thread was made to be a response to the "Villager can't fight" statement during Brawl's development. Also, I fixed your grammar. You're welcome, now please stop "trolling" my thread and let people converse in an intelligent and polite way.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't want it but I think it would be hilarious regardless especially with all the tongue in cheek dead puppy jokes I've made over the years. My girlfriend's such an animal lover that she'd probably just watch in shock and horror as it got pounded by the likes of Mario and DK.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What if Nintendog is top tier?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Final Smash: Nintendog covers up the whole screen while a bunch of puppies attack the opponents. :3

 

[Fatmanonice]

What if Nintendog is top tier?

A puppy consistently winning large scale tournaments would pretty much shred my perception of reality and probably cause me to have a lot of existential thoughts that I probably shouldn't be having until my late 60's/early 70's.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

seriously, people stop spamming this thread, if you think it's a bad idea, say why. Don't just post HUR DURX NINTENDOG SUX CUZ HES A DOG THAT CAN'T FIGHT. Play Super Smash Bros. Crusade, and see the Duck Hunt Dog, he fights amazingly. As for Nintendog, he would be interesting and I would've suggested him had no one else. People are entitled to their opinions, but keep it civil and respectful. Since when does the fact that a character can't fight in their series stop them? Wii Fit Trainer, anyone?

Edit: Also, if you get into an argument with me about Smash Bros., and especially Nintendog, you will lose. You have been warned.

Also, APC, if you would like any help with that moveset, I'm willing to help you out.

 

[APC99]

seriously, people stop spamming this thread, if you think it's a bad idea, say why. Don't just post HUR DURX NINTENDOG SUX CUZ HES A DOG THAT CAN'T FIGHT. Play Super Smash Bros. Crusade, and see the Duck Hunt Dog, he fights amazingly. As for Nintendog, he would be interesting and I would've suggested him had no one else. People are entitled to their opinions, but keep it civil and respectful. Since when does the fact that a character can't fight in their series stop them? Wii Fit Trainer, anyone?

Also, APC, if you would like any help with that moveset, I'm willing to help you out.

Thank you. I'm glad that there are people who actually OK with Nintendog. Me and StaffofSmashing are currently working on a moveset, and I'd be glad to invite you to join us. I know that there are a lot of cool people (MexM, FallKoopa, BluePikmin11, Fatmanonice, there are more, I know) who aren't flaming my thread, but it's still nice to find a person who's generally nice about a character and won't tell me all the reasons why it won't happen. And I'm not angry about people like God Robert's Cousin and CalumG, who actually respectfully stated why Nintendog was unlikely for Smash, but rather people who go, "wut. DAt's gay. Nintendo dawg is too ******** and iz a reel animal so eet cannawt bee in smash bruthas 4. MASTA CHIEF ALL DA WAY!". I DESPISE trolls with a passion. If anybody at all wants to help with the moveset, PM me with suggestions and I'll update the OP with all of the members who helped.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

bro, I know exactly how you feel. Trolls are the worst. and actually, BluePikmin is a good friend of mine, and he creates pixel art for smash character ideas, if you ask him, he might make a Nintendog one for you. will be pm'ing you with that momentarily.

 

[Starcutter]

I honestly would have a different four-legged fighter instead, but nintendog isn't THAT bad of an idea.

(yay shameless plugs)

 

[APC99]

I honestly would have a different four-legged fighter instead, but nintendog isn't THAT bad of an idea.

(yay shameless plugs)

Dude, a match between Nintendog and Ultimate Chimera could be a really cool event match! Here's what I've got:

Title: Porky's Pet
Character: Nintendog
Ally: Lucas
Enemies: Porky, Ultimate Chimera
Stock: 1 each
Description: Where's Boney? Oh well, I guess this stray dog could help protect Lucas from Porky's evil...

EDIT: Did I just say dude? God, I'm devolving!

 

[Starcutter]

Dude, a match between Nintendog and Ultimate Chimera could be a really cool event match! Here's what I've got:

Title: Porky's Pet
Character: Nintendog
Ally: Lucas
Enemies: Porky, Ultimate Chimera
Stock: 1 each
Description: Where's Boney? Oh well, I guess this stray dog could help protect Lucas from Porky's evil...

EDIT: Did I just say dude? God, I'm devolving!

That's awesome.

I think you said dude just from how awesome that was.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

sounds pretty epic as an event.

 

[APC99]

OP's been updated with the Ultimate Chimera/Nintendog event match. In reality, I just wanna spark some attention until I finish the moveset alongside Keybladeguy and StaffofSmashing.

 

[Groose]

OP's been updated with the Ultimate Chimera/Nintendog event match. In reality, I just wanna spark some attention until I finish the moveset alongside Keybladeguy and StaffofSmashing.

In that case, have a free bump.

I wouldn't be opposed to Nintendog (the shock of one being in would be ten times greater than Wii Fit Trainer), but, being realistic, I highly doubt its going to happen. First of all, there's PETA. Second of all... many people would be outraged. Thirdly, it would be a difficult thing to do.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

A playable Nintendog would be hilarious.

I don't see it as 100% implausible, Sakurai is certainly capable of it.....but the whole PETA thing might be a can of worms they wouldn't want to open.

 

[Deleted member]

A puppy consistently winning large scale tournaments would pretty much shred my perception of reality and probably cause me to have a lot of existential thoughts that I probably shouldn't be having until my late 60's/early 70's.

Sorry to bring Naruto into this, but this reminded me of the playable Akamaru in the Gamecube Clash of Ninja/Gekitou Ninja Taisen games.

.....Nintendog should TOTALLY be playable now.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well...ever since Wii Fit Trainer showed up, I am more cautiously open-minded towards possible characters from filthy casual franchises like Brain Age, Rhythm Heaven, and Nintendogs... If we do get a Nintendogs character, it better be a Nintendog & Nintendocat team called Nintendopets!