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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

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Dec 9, 2009
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Talking about characters that aren't too likely even if we want them, there are any character from a rather obscure company would you like to see?, personally I would love a Vanillaware rep, either Momohime/Kisuke or Gwendolyn from Muramasa the Demon Blade and Odin Sphere respectively.
There are definitely obscure characters I want but most of them I can think of are from relatively well known companies. The most obscure company I can think of off the top of my head that I’d love to see a character from is NIS with Etna from Disgaea. I’d also love to see Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy since he’s my favorite character ever but Level 5 isn’t really that obscure. Death from Darksiders 2 would be awesome too. THQ might have been relatively obscure at one point but it seems like the Embracer Group is gaining a ton of ground so I would no longer consider them as obscure.

I’m sure I could think of something I’m missing if I thought about it hard enough. Bad Mr. Frosty from Clay Fighter would be really fun even if he’s not someone I regularly think about. I have no idea what company owns the rights these days. Hopefully they’d go with his design from the first game because I think it was by far the strongest.
 
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chocolatejr9

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Talking about characters that aren't too likely even if we want them, there are any character from a rather obscure company would you like to see?, personally I would love a Vanillaware rep, either Momohime/Kisuke or Gwendolyn from Muramasa the Demon Blade and Odin Sphere respectively.
A Disgaea rep. Namely Laharl.
 

Gengar84

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A Disgaea rep. Namely Laharl.
Hey, a second Disgaea supporter. I’ve loved that franchise since the beginning but I never bought the newest game because it looked a bit disappointing. I might still pick it up eventually since I bought every other game in the series. Laharl would be cool to and would make sense being the main character but my favorites are Etna, Rozalin, and Valvatorez. I could see either Laharl or Etna being chosen as Etna has appeared in multiple crossovers as well.
 
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Sucumbio

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Chocolate-lay that's what I say in my head when I see C chocolatejr9 post...

Ghen Garr.

KwIL ee-en.

Fawg Baaj

Shroob

Hmm! ..

Taenk-a maan

Ive Ander

So many well crafted handles and a luscious world of pronunciation and inflection and .. you're all great.

Oh yeah uh what? Oh ummm some game called Institution? Or Cubicle? I dunno an acquaintance from gf plays it with his sister brb

Satisfactory!

Dunno what the character be... A mysterious door? Fwap! That's his down smash you just got flattened by a door.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
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Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,718
Sheik.

I know, I know, you're gonna say that it's a special case. Indeed. But it's still proves that you CAN have "a one-shot that's been abandoned" under special circonstances. Sheer popularity could be one of these cironstances.

Besides, you made up that rule. It's as valid as "you can have third-party protagonists but NOT vilains" and then, boum, One-winged angel is being played on the background.

That being said, I don't want Ghirahim nor Midna. One of the reasons why I want Skull Kid is because he's a living bridge between Ocarina and Majora, and he also being in Twilight Princess contributes to make him important enough to become recurrent. I'm also in favor of Tingle.
Sheik was put in Melee, which still counts as the early days of Smash. That's like saying the Donkey Kong arcade game is highly representative of Mario and Pauline should be in over Peach.

If we focus exclusively on Zelda's main cast, then it's seemingly just variations of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, and people have wanted Zelda to have more than that in Smash for at least a decade now, maybe closer to two decades. Hyrule Warriors and Age of Calamity show that there's a gigantic amount of untapped potential for playable Zelda characters beyond the Triforce trio, and both Midna and Ghirahim are presumably fairly popular characters that people want to see more often.
Here's the thing, the Zelda series revolves around the Links and Zeldas' constant battles with Ganon, so it makes sense that they focus exclusively on the main group. Smash has to juggle so many different franchises at once, so focusing mainly on the "main elements" of each series is outright necessary. This ain't Pokkén or Hyrule Warriors.

On the other hand, there's Fire Emblem which focuses on presenting a new continent or universe almost every game, but there's still the Anna family who appears across different universes. Does ANYONE want Anna to be in Smash?

(unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying when you mentioned a consistent main cast. Focusing on the Triforce trio because they're consistently the main cast seems to be like the argument that people made where Metroid should only have Samus as a playable character because the Metroid games are about isolation - it seems unnecessarily limiting)
It's pretty hard to explain, but I'll just repost my best attempt on a thread from three years ago:

First, I would like to define a "franchise that switches out main characters" is one where the core cast of characters is completely swapped out. For the examples in the title:
  • Fire Emblem goes without saying. Characters almost never reappear from one game to the next, let alone core characters. There's always a new lord, new implied love interest, new green and red cavs, new low-growth prepromote.
  • Xenoblade is in the same boat as Fire Emblem, which is to be expected as it follows the Final Fantasy school of casts. Each game (kinda, spoilers) takes place in a new universe with a new set of people. There are some recurring races like the Nopon, but the characters themselves change entirely.
  • Pokémon is a franchise that changes its mon availability every game. Yes, each new Pokémon that is added to the National Pokédex is a part of the series forever, but each game always has a different lineup of Pokémon: new starters, new regional birds, new common rodents, new pseudos, new cover legendaries. There's usually a number of old Pokémon available, but very few of them aside from Pikachu take center stage from game to game.
This is in opposition to characters with a staple cast like Mario or Kirby:
  • Mario may have some recent additions to the core cast like Rosalina or Captain Toad and some one-shots like FLUDD or Cappy, but the staple cast will always be Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Bowser Jr.
  • Kirby's cast will always be Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and (debatably) Bandana Dee. Susie, Magolor, Marx, Gooey, Adeleine, and Ribbon are one-shots, Star Allies notwithstanding.
And then there's Zelda. Zelda occupies a strange middle ground between a "staple cast" franchise and a "switch out" franchise where the characters themselves are entirely new, but they are part of a legacy where they share the same roles and names. They attempted to make Ganon the exception for a time, but even he is subject to this now. And this series even has one-shots like Navi, Midna, King Daphnes, the Champions, and Fi.
 

Gengar84

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I still think that’s a stupid fan rule to disqualify characters that have only appeared in one game. If the character is popular enough, there is no reason why something like that would prevent them from joining the roster. I think people are making the false assumption that just because something hasn’t happened yet, it means it can’t happen. I highly doubt we’re going to be stuck with just the triforce trio forever.
 

fogbadge

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Chocolate-lay that's what I say in my head when I see C chocolatejr9 post...

Ghen Garr.

KwIL ee-en.

Fawg Baaj

Shroob

Hmm! ..

Taenk-a maan

Ive Ander

So many well crafted handles and a luscious world of pronunciation and inflection and .. you're all great.

Oh yeah uh what? Oh ummm some game called Institution? Or Cubicle? I dunno an acquaintance from gf plays it with his sister brb

Satisfactory!

Dunno what the character be... A mysterious door? Fwap! That's his down smash you just got flattened by a door.
are you ok?
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,823
Chocolate-lay that's what I say in my head when I see C chocolatejr9 post...

Ghen Garr.

KwIL ee-en.

Fawg Baaj

Shroob

Hmm! ..

Taenk-a maan

Ive Ander

So many well crafted handles and a luscious world of pronunciation and inflection and .. you're all great.

Oh yeah uh what? Oh ummm some game called Institution? Or Cubicle? I dunno an acquaintance from gf plays it with his sister brb

Satisfactory!

Dunno what the character be... A mysterious door? Fwap! That's his down smash you just got flattened by a door.
Lol, I don’t even know how to pronounce my own username I use on most other places other than here (Aafyre). We were looking up a list of potential cool names years ago for characters and for some reason, that one just stuck and I’ve been using it for over 10 years for almost every site. I made this account just before I started using that name so that’s why I’m Gengar84 here. I’ve always pronounced the name “Eye Fire” but I have no idea if that’s right lol. The name comes in handy because it usually puts me at the top of lists alphabetically which is an unintentional plus.
 
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Lenidem

Smash Lord
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Oct 14, 2018
Messages
1,187
Sheik was put in Melee, which still counts as the early days of Smash. That's like saying the Donkey Kong arcade game is highly representative of Mario and Pauline should be in over Peach.



Here's the thing, the Zelda series revolves around the Links and Zeldas' constant battles with Ganon, so it makes sense that they focus exclusively on the main group. Smash has to juggle so many different franchises at once, so focusing mainly on the "main elements" of each series is outright necessary. This ain't Pokkén or Hyrule Warriors.
Yeah, your so-called "rule" falls under another "rule" which invalidated it at least once. So my point still stands: a new "rule" may come up and invalidate once again your "no one-shot rule".

It makes sense that Smash "focuses" on Link, Zelda and Ganon, yes. But "focusing" and "choosing those characters as the ones and only" are two different things. Besides, Metroid games are about Samus' lonely fight against the Space Pirates, not Ridley in particular, so according to you, she should be the only playable character of her serie.
 

Gengar84

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If anyone is curious, here is our character that my brother and I created that we based our user name off of that we use everywhere else:

1654184025928.jpeg

The art style we’re using takes a lot of inspiration from the modern Fire Emblem games but with our own touch. We made about 25 completed character portraits so far.

Not to stray too far off topic, has anyone else ever made their own original characters that they dream of one day getting into a game like Smash? I personally don’t expect it since it’s just a fun hobby but it is something that’s fun to think about sometimes.
 
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Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Talking about characters that aren't too likely even if we want them, there are any character from a rather obscure company would you like to see?, personally I would love a Vanillaware rep, either Momohime/Kisuke or Gwendolyn from Muramasa the Demon Blade and Odin Sphere respectively.
i want Toaplan rep recently their games are getting releases on switch
its just a matter of time when Zero Wing will be on Nintendo switch as i want CATS from Zero Wing to be in Smash he is their most iconic character and it would be a perfect retro rep that no one would expect he also represent the 2d spaceship shooting genre
 
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Infinity Sorcerer

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i want Toaplan rep recently their games are getting releases on switch
its just a matter of time when Zero Wing will be on Nintendo switch as i want CATS from Zero Wing to be in Smash he is their most iconic character and it would be a perfect retro rep that no one would expect he also represent the 2d spaceship shooting genre
It's that the All Your Base Are Belongs To Us guy?
 

chocolatejr9

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Messages
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Hey, a second Disgaea supporter. I’ve loved that franchise since the beginning but I never bought the newest game because it looked a bit disappointing. I might still pick it up eventually since I bought every other game in the series. Laharl would be cool to and would make sense being the main character but my favorites are Etna, Rozalin, and Valvatorez. I could see either Laharl or Etna being chosen as Etna has appeared in multiple crossovers as well.
Admittedly, I'd also prefer Valvatorez, but the way I see it, Laharl IS Disgaea. You see his design, hear his voice, see his actions during gameplay, and you get a good idea of what Disgaea is. If that makes any sense...
 

Chuderz

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Dec 18, 2020
Messages
482
Ah yes the Zelda representation in Smash conversation. This is more my speed.

I think in the event that everything is brought back for the sequel then the Smash team should focus on what they already have before introducing new characters. Each of the Links are capable of having their own moveset, Ganondorf is literally ahead of Mario in requiring a rework and Zelda's moveset... Kind of sucks or something? I don't know... It's okay (I guess) and isn't as glaring an issue as her Triforce counterparts but I think it's just kind of meh besides her Down-Special being really cool. I'd even like for Toon Zelda to potentially get into the game for the singular purpose of inheriting the old moveset so that the primary Zelda could be freed up for the developers to put together something more inspired for her. Hmmmm I wonder what I'd do? Sheik is fine, love the new Final Smash they gave her.

I may be wrong but isn't Skull Kid leading the pack as far as Zelda character requests are concerned? Midna and Impa are up there too with Impa having some debate as to which version she should be but I think Skull Kid is ahead of them all. By the time the next Smash rolls out it'll be very close if not over a quarter-century since the Zelda series got a character with a unique moveset added to the cast and if wasn't for Toon Link, a clone, getting into Brawl then we'd literally have ZERO characters from the franchise getting into the game in that same timeframe. Nuh-uh it's time for those beloved one-off characters because that's such a boring excuse to deprive the roster and the Zelda series of its deserved representation. Really all 3 aforementioned characters getting into the game together is warranted.

On a side note here's to hoping that we don't have to call the next game BOTW2 by the end of this month. I feel like we should maybe get a legitimate look at that game at this point regardless of the delay because we're only a year out at worst at this point... Unless it gets delayed again haha.
 
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chocolatejr9

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I may be wrong but isn't Skull Kid leading the pack as far as Zelda character requests are concerned? Midna and Impa are up there too with Impa having some debate as to which version she should be but I think Skull Kid is ahead of them all.
I'm pretty sure that's the issue: we don't know who the most wanted Zelda rep is. Skull Kid got a push thanks to a pair of chairs (I wish I was joking), but after the AT, he fell off. Now we're back to square one: him, Midna, Impa, Tingle, Ghirahim... for all we know, Morshu could be the most wanted (never underestimate memes).

I guess that's another reason to hope for another ballot, huh?
 

Gengar84

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My most wanted Zelda character is Impa, but only if it’s her original Hyrule Warriors depiction. It’s kind of funny that I never cared that much about the character before or since but that version of her is one of my favorite Nintendo characters ever. Out of the champions, I think Urbosa or Mipha would be fun. Villains like Skull Kid or Ganon would be cool to see too.
 
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Infinity Sorcerer

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I always had in mind try to separate the characters for try to abarc the major quantity of games:
  • Link: Breath of the Wild but without needing to be attached to the old Link, give him his other weapons and the Sheikah Slate's runes!
  • Young Link: Mix Ocarina with Majora, basically he would be the classic Link but with some improvements to make him more interesing overall (just not try to make it a Pokémon Trainer-like character).
  • Toon Link: Mix the Adult Hero era games (Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks).
  • Ganondorf: Oocarina of Time, is his best looking appearence and his more iconic one, it wouldn't hurt try to make him more appealing to the original in his moveset too but I don't find it super necessary (at least give him a new Neutral Special instead of Falcon Punch but lame).
  • Zelda: The actual Zelda that is already a mix of A Link to The Past, Ocarina of Time and Spirit Tracks is fine, but maybe something more wouldn't hurt, the idea of include Toon Zelda or something like that to heredate Classic!Zelda moves isn't bad either but idk, I like how she actually is.
  • Sheik: Already fine how it is.
And for newcomers, I think it would be better focusing on villains since the only one is Ganondorf, Skull Kid is the most popular at least in the west but I could also see Vaati (that would represent Minish Cap leaving Toon Link free to not include Minish Cap at force). Midna with Wolf Link and Impa are the only allies that I could see being a thing tbh, Impa either with Hyrule Warrios (OG or AoC) and Midna well, with Twilight Princess of course.
 

Gengar84

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I personally think that every member of the main triforce trio (Adult Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf) should get alts of all of their previous designs from each game. That way, people who prefer any particular design can have that. We might as well make use of alts and make as many people happy as possible. My favorite designs are OoT Link and Ganondorf and TP Zelda. It would be cool to see all of them without sacrificing anything we already have.
 
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Infinity Sorcerer

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I personally think that every member of the main triforce trio (Adult Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf) should get alts of all of their previous designs from each game. That way, people who prefer any particular design can have that. We might as well make use of alts and make as many people happy as possible.
I mean, some of them are actually very similar (look most of Link's designs), so I think it would be better make some "enhanced" designs for some of them mixing things from other designs taking one has a base.
 

Sucumbio

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I use this nickname just because I like the Astrograph Sorcerer from Yu-Gi-Oh lol.
Mine is nsfw lol but that's a great representation!

Real Talk: my interest in Zelda has not resurfaced since twilight princess. Say what you will about BoTW but I didn't even finish SS. So...

In Smash tho kinda the same downward trend. I pretty much only use Ganondorf so if they do anything with him other than deletion then cool.
 

Gengar84

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I mean, some of them are actually very similar (look most of Link's designs), so I think it would be better make some "enhanced" designs for some of them mixing things from other designs taking one has a base.
I’m okay with that as long as we base them off OoT Link and Ganondorf and TP Zelda. The problem is that everyone has their own favorite incarnations of the characters so I figured including them all would be the best solution. No need to limit the costume slots to 8 like Ultimate did.
 
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Infinity Sorcerer

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I’m okay with that as long as we get OoT Link and Ganondorf and TP Zelda. The problem is that everyone has their own favorite incarnations of the characters so I figured including them all would be the best solution. No need to limit the costume slots to 8 like Ultimate did.
I think it would be better that each character has difference between skins and colors, it doesn't matter if the the colors don't reference something, just make them selectable (I think it was a thing with Little Mac in SSB4 tho)
 

Gengar84

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I think it would be better that each character has difference between skins and colors, it doesn't matter if the the colors don't reference something, just make them selectable (I think it was a thing with Little Mac in SSB4 tho)
So my idea for skins, which I’ve seen a few other people mention as well, is to have a custom color editor so we can make our own skins. Several other games like Soul Calibur and Warriors Orochi already have this feature and it would allow the alts to focus more on model swaps since we could choose our own colors.

I think Smash should start making DLC outfits for existing characters besides just Miis in the next game. That seems like a huge missed opportunity. There are so many great options and I think they could sell really well.
 
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HyperSomari64

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Speaking of card games, should we deserve a toy rep in Smash. (with obviously omitting the infamous @/MLPForSmash account)

Actually,i like the idea of a Toy-based Platform Fighter with Hasbro, Mattel and the other manufacturers.

The closest thing to that is Smash itself (where the characters are toys), Toy Story, and a Hasbro comic featuring their most famous franchises.
 

Gengar84

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I still think we should avoid the 4th party material
I’m personally fine either way. There’s a lot of 4th party characters that would be fun to see but we certainly don’t need them. As for toy reps, I’ve always been a big Magic: the Gathering fan so someone like Liliana Vess would be awesome.
 

Gengar84

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I just think allow 4th party content would open a huge can of worms. Even just allowing 3rd party content is enought to open one, I don't want to imagine if one day they include Spider-Man or someone like that.
You’re probably right. I’d personally love to see Spider-Man in Smash but I totally don’t blame anyone that wants to keep 4th parties completely separate.
 
D

Deleted member

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You mean something like the VR mode or?
I meant something like an open world style smash bros. Maybe a story mode where you play as a mik character and you have to explore and defeat other characters to unlock them in normal smash.
 

Dukefire

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If you do it that way, then some characters may have to be cut to make it possible for the development team.
 

SPEN18

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But why are these two still in conversation from multiple people? They've been left by the wayside in terms of marketing AND are one-shots in a series with a fairly consistent main cast. For established franchises, you can have a recurring character left by the wayside OR a one-shot that's been marketed heavily, but NOT a one-shot that's been abandoned.
I don't think they need to receive current marketing for me to think they'd be good additions. A character can have legacy without continuing to be marketed; continued marketing for older and/or one-off characters is just one way that the legacy can be evidenced. Midna and Ghirahim were big characters in their heydays and are still popular and recognized now. I don't think they're likely, but with a more ideal Zelda roster they'd help a lot with representing the series history as a whole, as they come from a pair of landmark console releases that, while having their individual quirks to pick at, did very well from a general audience standpoint. Crucially, they're also highly important characters in their lone mainline appearances, being on-screen consistently with plot-important roles.
Yes, Zelda has a fairly consistent main cast but that main cast consists of only three characters. There are many versions of those three but they are all essentially reincarnations of the same likenesses, and there is just enough unity IMO to pull together a single good moveset to represent each one. But even many people who want multiple Links, Zeldas, and Ganons still want more than just those, too.
I also lower the bar a bit because Zelda is a pretty big, long-running, and successful series, only behind Mario and Pokémon. I'm fine with it having more reps than the other series, and if you consider Zelda characters both recurring and one-off, these two stand out as among the handful of best ones IMO.
Fwiw I also prefer Skull Kid over these two, but I don't think Skull Kid should preclude either of these two.

the Zelda series revolves around the Links and Zeldas' constant battles with Ganon, so it makes sense that they focus exclusively on the main group
I think that's more an argument that they focus primarily, not exclusively, on the core trio; making it completely exclusive I don't think is an effective restriction.
But even still, Midna and Ghirahim are both directly and intensely involved in the Triforce conflict within their respective games, as are other characters like Impa. They still play strongly into that main theme.

On the other hand, there's Fire Emblem which focuses on presenting a new continent or universe almost every game, but there's still the Anna family who appears across different universes. Does ANYONE want Anna to be in Smash?
If Anna was actually important in her roles, then it would absolutely be significant that she recurs, even in a series not focused on making things recur. The better (and, really, less complicated) way to look at Anna is simply that she is always a pretty minor character in the mainline games.
 
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TCT~Phantom

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TCT~Phantom
Talking about characters that aren't too likely even if we want them, there are any character from a rather obscure company would you like to see?, personally I would love a Vanillaware rep, either Momohime/Kisuke or Gwendolyn from Muramasa the Demon Blade and Odin Sphere respectively.
While I would not say they obscure per say, a Falcom rep would be great. If I had to bet on one, probably Adol Christian. Falcom has done a lot as one of the grandfather's of JRPGs, so i think having something from them in Smash as a celebration of gaming would be great. It also would mean more people would play some Falcom games, kinda like how people are paying more attention to SNK now after Terry got in Smash.

Also the music slaps. Here are a few of my favorite themes in particular for Ys.


This was a conservative list I put together of a few bangers. I didn't include any songs from Trails, which has as many if not more bangers. Falcom makes some damn good music.
 
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