profetylen
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2009
- Messages
- 12
MEW! Because we need more pokémon.
-
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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)
- Thread starter Anti Guy
- Start date
- Status
Shin F.
Smash Master
Which is why I'd like them announced for PM before Smash 4 gets its grubby little paws on them.
Darkmask
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2014
- Messages
- 314
I wouldn't say Isaac is a lock in, as much as he's just a very, very popular fan favorite.
Shin F.
Smash Master
I'd say that being the single most popular character in the pole makes him nearly a lock, if he's not in Smash 4. PMBR would want dat hype.
Darkmask
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2014
- Messages
- 314
Hey Shin, I shared my Isaac moveset, did you ever make one? I think you said that you had made a similar idea of using my chargable Gaia as a down special as opposed to a neutral special like I thought.
Shin F.
Smash Master
I didn't make one, but I added a custom Isaac PSA to my custom build using BrawlEx. It's rough, but it's fun. I can't use it in Project M unfortunately. Gaia works as his down b with the three charging levels like you had his specials.
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
Please tell me you are kidding.
arcticfox8
Smash Champion
He says with Pichu in sig
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
There is a difference between "need" and "would be cool to have despite it belonging to an overrepped series."
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arcticfox8
Smash Champion
He says with Ninten in sig
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
Mother is a different case altogether.
arcticfox8
Smash Champion
How?
Darkmask
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2014
- Messages
- 314
Because Earthbound is his favorite franchise, so obviously it should be treated special!
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
Pokemon doesn't "need" another rep with 7, but it would be cool if Pichu was added in.
Mother needs another rep because it only has 2 at the moment.
Saying that Mother and Pokemon are the same is like comparing a trampoline to a blackberry bush.
arcticfox8
Smash Champion
I fail to see how Mother needs another rep.
1 game in the states, 2 more that never left Japan.
Mother has 2 characters.
Metroid beats that by far and it only has 2 reps, and they're the same character.
Golden Sun, Balloon Fight, and Advance Wars beat that and they have 0 characters in Smash.
I fail to see how Mother needs a 3rd rep.
Alfonzo Bagpipez
Smash Lord
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
This is more of a matter of opinion.
Having Ninten in would complete the trio of protagonists of the Mother series, as well as satisfying a HUGE fanbase.
I know that underrepped series have more precedence when picking a new character, but you have to remember there are 5 slots. There is plenty of space to satisfy at least one of everyone's character requests.
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arcticfox8
Smash Champion
You said Mother "needed" another rep. Now you say that it's just what you want. While this is correct, you should've said that in the first place.
I understood that last paragraph 200 pages ago.
Solbliminal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2013
- Messages
- 2,275
- NNID
- Solbliminal
No. We don't need any more Pokemon. If any other Pokemon is getting in, it is Pichu. And that is only because of Melee. Otherwise, we don't "need" anything else from Pokemon.
Mother has received a very reasonable amount of characters for what the series had to offer. I'm sure if Shin and Edge were here, they would agree. And this is despite the fact they are both very big Mother fans. Mother doesn't "need" anymore than it has. It would be nice, but it is unnecessary.
Characters from Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Famicom Wars, various NES classics, and Metroid, NEED characters. These popular series have been requested time and time again for Smash, and their fans have been let down. I'm not saying the characters Masked Man and Ninten do not deserve a spot. I'm saying that they deserve it far less than others. If we get them, then cool, fine, no big deal. But they are not a priory.
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andalsoandy
Smash Lord
Mmm, idk. I feel like it's still a big legal issue if P:M has a character from Smash 4 whether or not they do it first.
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
I guess I should have been more careful with my words. I only said that because Arctic was comparing Pokemon to Mother.
andalsoandy
Smash Lord
Daroach would be a great freakin' character.
Jus' sayin.
We need more villains and stuff.
Jus' sayin.
We need more villains and stuff.
arcticfox8
Smash Champion
Villain you say?
KaKaw
KaKaw
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
+1
Sukapon
Waluigi
Ridley
King K. Rool
+1/2
Pig Ganon
Paper Mario
Trouble King
Not sure about the cape, but K. Rool is otherwise mostly humanoid, however with fairly distinct proportions. In terms of personality, Wario and Bowser’s animations fit him best. Luckily, they have body-types relatively similar K. Rool’s, particularly if one considers the post-SNES design of actually having thighs (in other respects, though, his classic design is far cooler). Of course, he could make use of some of their Brawl animations that are different.
Being crocodilian, he could have plenty of bite attacks, which Bowser conveniently provides even in spades (even in one of his taunts). Other attacks could be modified to be bites, or things like Wario’s spinning moves (like Brawl dair & d-smash) could feature an open mouth to catch enemies on his teeth. Such moves could also make use of tail-slaps for extra range, as could attacks like Brawl-Wario’s bair and b-throw.
The main argument against him – and the reason I gave him only a half-vote – is that he doesn’t provide much new, particularly when excluding gimmicks. The way I imagine him working, his range of playstyles is already covered by a combination of ROB, Samus, Bowser, and Dedede.
Unique Potential
Size: K. Rool has varied between two and five times taller than DK, who is already one of the largest characters in the game. As such, K. Rool would certainly be bigger than any current character (even rivaling a playable Ridley, at the very least when comparing volume). Moreover, with all that muscle, metal, and fat, he’d bar none be the heaviest character. Being at an extreme of course is a unique attribute, but it also makes balancing difficult.
Skullduggery: K. Rool has a history of going down before he’s defeated, most notably with fake credits in his first appearance. This duplicity could be translated in a couple interesting ways.
By performing some input (like shield+taunt or shield+B) during a tech window, K. Rool bounces as when one doesn’t tech and afterward is left in a state identical to idle in every way except visually, in which respect it appears that he’s knocked down. Thus K. Rool is able to respond freely to an opponent expecting only getup options, assuming he manages the input and his opponent doesn’t attack during the bounce.
An alternative – or additional – implementation could be holding taunt or B while performing an input on the ledge while having under 100% to perform what looks like a >99% ledge action but which ends sooner, allowing a free move against an inattentive opponent.
A somewhat related tactic is how he pretends to appeal to the crowd in the DK round of his DK64 fight, but interrupts himself with continued attacks. This could be implemented via smash-charging animations that mimic his taunts. He’d need a practical reason to taunt in a fight if the bluff is to work, but it could just be a nice reference instead.
Feeding Habits: Real-life crocs could be turned to for inspiration. Of note is the death roll, whereby a croc spins along its transverse plane after snagging prey in order to rip bite-sized chunks off it. This could be used as a d-throw, ending with a mindgame situation that could turn very awkward as both characters are left in knockdown position right next to each other.
The crocodilian strategy of lurking under the water as prey approaches the shore, then lunging out and dragging them under to drown, could inspire a new ledge option: the ledge throw. K. Rool reaches up, grabs anyone close enough, then drops, placing both characters under the ledge. Could be a completely new option triggered by pressing grab, could simply be that his ledge attack happens to be a grab, or it could be that his ledge attack uses two set-knockback hits to get the effect without being a grab at all.
Example Specials
The Rare Donkey Kong series is set up perfectly for specials. Note that, since Wario and Zamus have unused items, this set is presented under the assumption that K. Rool could be made from one of them to use their items, and that the items can be changed to a far larger degree than I actually expect.
Side-B, Krown: His ill-conceived plan from Donkey Kong Country. K. Rool takes the krown from his head and throws it forward. It travels in a straight path, penetrating opponents, and after a given distance it turns around and can hit them again. Knockback is opposite the direction of travel, so it can be thrown out to draw an enemy forward, and an enemy can be hit into it so they’re bounced back for more, and its return can relieve pressure, and the potential for much more. K. Rool’s normals have an additional hitbox on his krown that is absent when it’s absent, so there’s some give-and-take with the move. When K. Rool comes in contact with the krown, or if it hits a wall or makes it back to point from which it was thrown, it poofs back atop his head.
Alternatively, as long as it’s an available option, the krown could just fall to the ground as a regular item instead of poofing. Even more, using Side-B initially could just be an item-pull as he takes the krown from his head, which would allow him some AGT tricks. The boomeranging would then just be what it does when thrown.
Neutral-B, Kanonball: His somewhat less ill-conceived plan from Diddy’s Kong Quest. At the center of this move is the projectile itself: a heavy item (thus bringing an as-yet untouched element of the game into play) with a hurtbox (allowing it to block projectiles, trigger on-hit effects, and other hurtboxy things). Slopes and strong attacks can cause it to roll, which gives it a hitbox. Actually firing it is a multistep process:
Up-B, Kopter: His transport from Dixie Kong’s Double Trouble!, redesigned to resolve its weaknesses. A short delay loses K. Rool a bit more height as he presses the button that is now in his hand and as the player presses either up or down. This triggers the kopter to deploy and move K. Rool relatively slowly forward at roughly 12° from horizontal in the player’s chosen direction. The pack is much larger than the SNES version, fully covering his back with arcing diodes based on the boss fight, as well as an invincible hurtbox that blocks anything that makes it through the electricity. He’s also partially covered below by a fiery thruster (inspired by KAOS) and above by a chopping propeller, but fully vulnerable from the front. K. Rool can turn around during the move, but doing so leaves him momentarily open on both sides. Therefore proper kopter use with K. Rool would combine prediction and spacing, involving a balance of turning around enough to prevent interception but not so much that he can’t reach the stage.
Down-B, Kwake: His standby attack from Donkey Kong 64, although shockwaves were a general recurrent motif of that game. K. Rool falls on his butt, causing visible surges of force to move outward in either direction as another pair of penetrating projectiles. A kwake's graphical effect itself holds the hitboxes, but only hits characters on the ground or a ledge. It decreases linearly in size and strength over distance, eventually fading away (or disappearing instantly upon reaching the edge). His actual butt is weak compared to similar moves, and in the air it’s not much faster than his fastfall, but the farther he falls the slower the kwakes move, hence the longer they stay out. This also allows K. Rool to layer multiple kwakes of differing speeds to mess with the enemy’s timing.
Once again, thanks for reading! Looks like this came at a good time, too…
Sukapon
Waluigi
Ridley
King K. Rool
+1/2
Pig Ganon
Paper Mario
Trouble King
Not sure about the cape, but K. Rool is otherwise mostly humanoid, however with fairly distinct proportions. In terms of personality, Wario and Bowser’s animations fit him best. Luckily, they have body-types relatively similar K. Rool’s, particularly if one considers the post-SNES design of actually having thighs (in other respects, though, his classic design is far cooler). Of course, he could make use of some of their Brawl animations that are different.
Being crocodilian, he could have plenty of bite attacks, which Bowser conveniently provides even in spades (even in one of his taunts). Other attacks could be modified to be bites, or things like Wario’s spinning moves (like Brawl dair & d-smash) could feature an open mouth to catch enemies on his teeth. Such moves could also make use of tail-slaps for extra range, as could attacks like Brawl-Wario’s bair and b-throw.
The main argument against him – and the reason I gave him only a half-vote – is that he doesn’t provide much new, particularly when excluding gimmicks. The way I imagine him working, his range of playstyles is already covered by a combination of ROB, Samus, Bowser, and Dedede.
Unique Potential
Size: K. Rool has varied between two and five times taller than DK, who is already one of the largest characters in the game. As such, K. Rool would certainly be bigger than any current character (even rivaling a playable Ridley, at the very least when comparing volume). Moreover, with all that muscle, metal, and fat, he’d bar none be the heaviest character. Being at an extreme of course is a unique attribute, but it also makes balancing difficult.
Skullduggery: K. Rool has a history of going down before he’s defeated, most notably with fake credits in his first appearance. This duplicity could be translated in a couple interesting ways.
By performing some input (like shield+taunt or shield+B) during a tech window, K. Rool bounces as when one doesn’t tech and afterward is left in a state identical to idle in every way except visually, in which respect it appears that he’s knocked down. Thus K. Rool is able to respond freely to an opponent expecting only getup options, assuming he manages the input and his opponent doesn’t attack during the bounce.
An alternative – or additional – implementation could be holding taunt or B while performing an input on the ledge while having under 100% to perform what looks like a >99% ledge action but which ends sooner, allowing a free move against an inattentive opponent.
A somewhat related tactic is how he pretends to appeal to the crowd in the DK round of his DK64 fight, but interrupts himself with continued attacks. This could be implemented via smash-charging animations that mimic his taunts. He’d need a practical reason to taunt in a fight if the bluff is to work, but it could just be a nice reference instead.
Feeding Habits: Real-life crocs could be turned to for inspiration. Of note is the death roll, whereby a croc spins along its transverse plane after snagging prey in order to rip bite-sized chunks off it. This could be used as a d-throw, ending with a mindgame situation that could turn very awkward as both characters are left in knockdown position right next to each other.
The crocodilian strategy of lurking under the water as prey approaches the shore, then lunging out and dragging them under to drown, could inspire a new ledge option: the ledge throw. K. Rool reaches up, grabs anyone close enough, then drops, placing both characters under the ledge. Could be a completely new option triggered by pressing grab, could simply be that his ledge attack happens to be a grab, or it could be that his ledge attack uses two set-knockback hits to get the effect without being a grab at all.
Example Specials
The Rare Donkey Kong series is set up perfectly for specials. Note that, since Wario and Zamus have unused items, this set is presented under the assumption that K. Rool could be made from one of them to use their items, and that the items can be changed to a far larger degree than I actually expect.
Side-B, Krown: His ill-conceived plan from Donkey Kong Country. K. Rool takes the krown from his head and throws it forward. It travels in a straight path, penetrating opponents, and after a given distance it turns around and can hit them again. Knockback is opposite the direction of travel, so it can be thrown out to draw an enemy forward, and an enemy can be hit into it so they’re bounced back for more, and its return can relieve pressure, and the potential for much more. K. Rool’s normals have an additional hitbox on his krown that is absent when it’s absent, so there’s some give-and-take with the move. When K. Rool comes in contact with the krown, or if it hits a wall or makes it back to point from which it was thrown, it poofs back atop his head.
Alternatively, as long as it’s an available option, the krown could just fall to the ground as a regular item instead of poofing. Even more, using Side-B initially could just be an item-pull as he takes the krown from his head, which would allow him some AGT tricks. The boomeranging would then just be what it does when thrown.
Neutral-B, Kanonball: His somewhat less ill-conceived plan from Diddy’s Kong Quest. At the center of this move is the projectile itself: a heavy item (thus bringing an as-yet untouched element of the game into play) with a hurtbox (allowing it to block projectiles, trigger on-hit effects, and other hurtboxy things). Slopes and strong attacks can cause it to roll, which gives it a hitbox. Actually firing it is a multistep process:
- The initial use has K. Rool pull out the kanonball and plop in front of himself, allowing him to swiftly and precisely place it so it can do its thing for stage control, as well as be turned to for later use.
- K. Rool primes his blunderbuss with gunpowder. If he’s attacked during this or later stages of the attack, the powder explodes with a strong hitbox, hitting anything nearby (including K. Rool).
- If the kanonball is not nearby, K. Rool fires the gun anyway, emitting a short range flaming burst, stronger than the powder explosion. The next use would then be Stage 2 again. If the kanonball is nearby, K. Rool loads it into his blunderbuss. In Smash fashion, the readiness of the move is indicated by a graphic at K. Rool’s waist implying a burning fuse.
- K. Rool finally takes the shot. The kanonball is propelled even stronger than the flaming burst, following a gentle arc and penetrating opponents. It stays out if it lands and comes to a stop, so the moves next use will be Stage 2. Otherwise the cycle restarts.
Up-B, Kopter: His transport from Dixie Kong’s Double Trouble!, redesigned to resolve its weaknesses. A short delay loses K. Rool a bit more height as he presses the button that is now in his hand and as the player presses either up or down. This triggers the kopter to deploy and move K. Rool relatively slowly forward at roughly 12° from horizontal in the player’s chosen direction. The pack is much larger than the SNES version, fully covering his back with arcing diodes based on the boss fight, as well as an invincible hurtbox that blocks anything that makes it through the electricity. He’s also partially covered below by a fiery thruster (inspired by KAOS) and above by a chopping propeller, but fully vulnerable from the front. K. Rool can turn around during the move, but doing so leaves him momentarily open on both sides. Therefore proper kopter use with K. Rool would combine prediction and spacing, involving a balance of turning around enough to prevent interception but not so much that he can’t reach the stage.
Down-B, Kwake: His standby attack from Donkey Kong 64, although shockwaves were a general recurrent motif of that game. K. Rool falls on his butt, causing visible surges of force to move outward in either direction as another pair of penetrating projectiles. A kwake's graphical effect itself holds the hitboxes, but only hits characters on the ground or a ledge. It decreases linearly in size and strength over distance, eventually fading away (or disappearing instantly upon reaching the edge). His actual butt is weak compared to similar moves, and in the air it’s not much faster than his fastfall, but the farther he falls the slower the kwakes move, hence the longer they stay out. This also allows K. Rool to layer multiple kwakes of differing speeds to mess with the enemy’s timing.
Once again, thanks for reading! Looks like this came at a good time, too…
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Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
You do know that voting is over, right?
Unless somebody else has taken over voting and I'm just not aware of it.
CardiganBoy
Smash Lord
Would you get angry if i say that the dog is cuter than a chocobo?
Alfonzo Bagpipez
Smash Lord
Darkmask
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2014
- Messages
- 314
Who's Condor anyway?Did somebody say
![]()
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
He is the condor from the Ice Climber's game.
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Darkmask
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2014
- Messages
- 314
Hmmm ... but what kind of moveset could he really have? Although I guess he could be seen as an almost exclusively aerial character ...
Cool Blue
Smash Journeyman
Ask Arctic. He was the one who came up with the idea if I'm not mistaken.
EdgeTheLucas
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 1,695
Yeah you got the right idea. I'd love it if Ninten got in, but we don't really NEED him. Need and want are two different things, but considering that passion people have around here I understand if people get the two confused.
Those other games you mentioned really are in dire need of representation. Famicom Wars has been around longer than Fire Emblem so I'm still surprised the most representation they have is as an assist trophy.
Shin F.
Smash Master
So
I leave to take a nap for a couple of hours and this happens. We get into a mini grammar war over which series technically "needs" characters.
Right. Because that's worth arguing over at this point, when it's been hashed to death. Come on, people. I know this is the internet, but I expected better than to have someone verbally lynched for having an opinion and wording it poorly. If we want to get technical, no series needs any reps. Most of us have characters we want for series that are over-repped. No need to go on a witch hunt because he used the word need instead of want.
I leave to take a nap for a couple of hours and this happens. We get into a mini grammar war over which series technically "needs" characters.
Right. Because that's worth arguing over at this point, when it's been hashed to death. Come on, people. I know this is the internet, but I expected better than to have someone verbally lynched for having an opinion and wording it poorly. If we want to get technical, no series needs any reps. Most of us have characters we want for series that are over-repped. No need to go on a witch hunt because he used the word need instead of want.
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arcticfox8
Smash Champion
AWWWWWWW HELL
Time to learn some fools about the coolest ***** around. The mutha****in Condor. KAKAW
What kind of moveset could the Condor have? What could he not have, brutha?
That ***** can fly, ****IN FLY! NOBODY FLIES IN SMASH BROTHERS! I mean ****** like Jigglypuff get pretty close and you gotta give em mad respect fo dat but at the end of the day they just be jumpin' a lot. Condor has real ass wings for real ass flight.
And he can carry **** too. He stole Popo's veggies back in Ice Climber, he stole the Targets back in Melee. Who knows what that badass can lift. Do you lift? The Condor does. He probably could've stolen Popo's ***** Nana but he don't need dat. He's not a sexist villain like Bowser, he lets da ******* try an stop him too, but they never can. Even if they get their Eggplants back he's already gon an stole their Cabbage.
Don't ****in mess with the Condor. He'll take all 4 a'ya stocks to the top of Icicle Mountain. You ain't never seein dem stocks again son. F'reel. Ridley better step off, Condor is the real OG pterodactyl beast. Condor is tired of carryin' dem Ice Climbers into battle. Condor wants a piece of dat action. But Condor don't give a **** doh. If you don't want Condor Condor understands. He'd be too OP. It's whatever doh. Ice Climber 2 will happen one day. Then Sakurai will realize the mistake he's made in not picking up the Condor back in 64.
CardiganBoy
Smash Lord
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andalsoandy
Smash Lord
Sadly, this won't fit in my signature.
CardiganBoy
Smash Lord
They could always make Condor & Ridley a double character.
"Pterodactyl Climbers" anyone?
"Pterodactyl Climbers" anyone?
TRJV
Smash Journeyman
I know you've made so many already but...
Black Shadow?
- Status