New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[820]

Well if the PMBR wants to make an original character, Isaac seems to have the least amount of negative reception. Which is probably the most important stat.

 

[the_suicide_fox]

I think you and most of the other people on this thread are looking at it the wrong way. Mewtwo took over 700 hours and Roy took over 300 hours because he's a clone. These are 2 existing characters, they were able to port data over from Melee or at the very least look at it when creating them. This was bound to be a huge time saver. Any brand new character, clone or otherwise, is almost guaranteed to take well over the time Mewtwo did because all the balancing and design has to be done from scratch. For that reason I expect most, if not all, of the new characters (if we even get any more, nobody said they'd use up all 7 slots for sure) will be clones of old characters.

My point was that we could either get something like 2 more clones or 1 more new character. I doubt they would be willing to spend years doing all this extra work, especially with Smash 4 around the corner.

I would rather have the 1 new character than 2 clones.

 

[Chzrm3]

I think you and most of the other people on this thread are looking at it the wrong way. Mewtwo took over 700 hours and Roy took over 300 hours because he's a clone. These are 2 existing characters, they were able to port data over from Melee or at the very least look at it when creating them. This was bound to be a huge time saver. Any brand new character, clone or otherwise, is almost guaranteed to take well over the time Mewtwo did because all the balancing and design has to be done from scratch. For that reason I expect most, if not all, of the new characters (if we even get any more, nobody said they'd use up all 7 slots for sure) will be clones of old characters.

Yeah, I think making an actual new character, with completely different moves everywhere, would be well over 1000. With Mewtwo, all his moves were different, but they at least had an idea of what they wanted the final character to look like. Making a completely new character would be crazy, because now you also introduce the X-factor of wasted development time - spend 20 hours making, testing and perfecting a move, then you realize that the move doesn't flow with his kit at all, and there's no way to make it work. So you axe the move and start over.

No character they've made so far has had that issue be so abundant. They've talked about scrapped moves they did for other characters, but those were already-complete characters like Bowser or Wario. To have the potential for that to happen with every single facet of a character's moveset.... oooo man!

All that being said, I am really curious to see what an original PM creation would look like and play like. : D

 

[Anti Guy]

Yeah, I think making an actual new character, with completely different moves everywhere, would be well over 1000. With Mewtwo, all his moves were different, but they at least had an idea of what they wanted the final character to look like. Making a completely new character would be crazy, because now you also introduce the X-factor of wasted development time - spend 20 hours making, testing and perfecting a move, then you realize that the move doesn't flow with his kit at all, and there's no way to make it work. So you axe the move and start over.

No character they've made so far has had that issue be so abundant. They've talked about scrapped moves they did for other characters, but those were already-complete characters like Bowser or Wario. To have the potential for that to happen with every single facet of a character's moveset.... oooo man!

All that being said, I am really curious to see what an original PM creation would look like and play like. : D

Yeah coming up with a moveset from scratch is tough. I'd say that'd take no more than maybe 100 hours though (to be on the high side). Research the character for ideas, draft, revise, revise, revise, etc. It doesn't help that you don't have previous iterations of the characters to base it on (and have mains/experts that can give appropriate feedback). Then after that you'd have to do extra work for sounds and modeling (at least Roy and Mewtwo had previous animations for all their attacks to base things on), which I didn't even include in the 100 hour estimate.

 

[Deleted member]

Of the green ones... I'd say their chances of making it into SSB4 are as follows (from highest to lowest)

Decent chance:
Dixie
Saki
Isaac

Okay chance:
Bowser Jr
Ridley

Low chance:
Skapon
Lyn
Black Shadow

No chance:
Sami

I would switch Jr. and Ridley with Saki and Isaac.

Isaac has the more popular and recent Shulk in his way, and Saki is like... invisible to many. Ridley has a higher chance than many think, Sakurai is just a *********, and Jr I feel has the strongest chance out of all the Mario newcomers for Smash 4.


I agree on Saki being impossible to truly recreate, and Isaac's psyenergy making him very tricky.

Also, Dark Samus would have a better shot if Actual Samus was already worked into PM.

 

[Deleted member]

Well if the PMBR wants to make an original character, Isaac seems to have the least amount of negative reception. Which is probably the most important stat.

I woul say the most important stat to look at is the legal one.

You DO know Nintendo shut down a SMB mod where you could do level edits, and they also shut down that Pokemon MMO.

I think the last thing the PMBR wants is to get shut down by Nintendo. So, while the idea of new characters is an appealing one, it's a territory we should tread VERY carefully, since our biggest obstacle is Nintendo themselves...


Man... if only Nintendo was a boss as Valve...

 

[Chzrm3]

I woul say the most important stat to look at is the legal one.

You DO know Nintendo shut down a SMB mod where you could do level edits, and they also shut down that Pokemon MMO.

I think the last thing the PMBR wants is to get shut down by Nintendo. So, while the idea of new characters is an appealing one, it's a territory we should tread VERY carefully, since our biggest obstacle is Nintendo themselves...


Man... if only Nintendo was a boss as Valve...

Yeah, I'm pretty terrified of Nintendo shutting this down. =(

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I remembered a character that no one has talked about lately. How about Poo from earthbound? I think he could have a great move set, and I remember seeing a gif animation of how his move set could work somewhere online while we were waiting for brawl to be released. I cant find that gif right now unfortunately, but if I do I'll post it!

Thoughts on poo?

 

[Chzrm3]

I remembered a character that no one has talked about lately. How about Poo from earthbound? I think he could have a great move set, and I remember seeing a gif animation of how his move set could work somewhere online while we were waiting for brawl to be released. I cant find that gif right now unfortunately, but if I do I'll post it!

Thoughts on poo?

I love any EB characters/ideas. : D Poo would be sick if he was a combo of Lucas's moves (a lot of those smashes look like stars!) with either some Marth or Sheik attacks.

 

[ChronoBound]

2) Dark Samus - A lot of negative votes for Dark Samus were because of Ridley. If Ridley was deconfirmed as being an option, then Dark Samus' stock would rise dramatically.

There is also the fact that people don't want three characters named Samus on the roster, and there is some that think Dark Samus is just too aesthetically similar to Samus.

Overall, Ridley is among the lowest hanging fruits that this team has. He is going to be difficult, but Ridley is increasingly looking like a fruit that Sakurai is never going to pick.

As I said, the best defense people have about the stage hazard thing is that Sakurai "could be trolling", and I don't think that is a solid case. I hope he is trolling for sure, but as I said I think Ridley would be one of the best possible characters to choose.

 

[B.W.]

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

I just like seeing unique ideas get fleshed out into good concepts over bad ideas that have little basis.

I couldn't care less about representation or any of that.

Another style I'd push for if it were possible would be Gun Kata:

Sadly there are no dual-gun users that couldbe viable for the roster. Sami is as close as it gets, but she lacks the disciplined flair to pull it off. She's more of a rougeish soldier rather than a trained martial artist. And adding such a character would be insane to program.

Inb4 bullets are cheap and wouldn't work in a fighter.

Spoiler

But w/e Gun Kata ain't happening, so I'm not holding my breath. At least I can push for Battoujutsu and be satisfied with that...

Saki could basically fit that Gun kata niche, as he wields a sword gun combo.
Not to mention that combo is pretty different from the entire roster and not just another sword wielder.

Damn, Saki and Lyn would be super hype.

 

[Anti Guy]

Saki could basically fit that Gun kata niche, as he wields a sword gun combo.
Not to mention that combo is pretty different from the entire roster and not just another sword wielder.

Damn, Saki and Lyn would be super hype.

Don't lose sight of something that half the people here seem to be forgetting...

How is that going to be possible? Many movesets are possible, but I don't see how Saki's is. There is nothing in the roster to build off of, especially for gun kata.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I just like seeing unique ideas get fleshed out into good concepts over bad ideas that have little basis.

I couldn't care less about representation or any of that.

Edit: I agree with getting unique move sets into P:M. I really wish we could get a fighter that took some inspiration from characters like Scorpion, Kratos, and Ivy. Zerosuit Samus would have actually been perfect for a move set like this, but the PMBR seems to have made their decisions with her already. Here are some videos and descriptions of what I'm thinking would have worked well (I'll just use ZSS as my example because I can't think of anyone else it would work really well with):

First move - a grounded Up B attack shooting out ZSS's whip at an angle instead of directly above her. If it connects it pulls in your opponent like Scorpion does in this video like a million times (after 1:30 in). Once you pull them in, Samus does some automatic kicking animation to hit them away (again like in this video):

Next - an areal Up B attack would still shoot the whip out at an angle, but now if it connects, it would pull ZSS close to the opponent rather than pulling the opponent in. This happens at 6:00 in this video:

This move would also work the same way as in this video, ZSS would fling herself into her opponent (feet first works) booting them in the face.

Finally - lot of Ivy's attacks are completely ridiculous, but some of ZSS's grabs could work similarly to Ivy's grabs where she throws her opponents into the air after a normal grab, and then grabs them with her sword whip mid air and slams them into the ground. If you watch this video you can see some good examples of this (a good one is about 30-35 sec in except its not a grab attack - just imagine it work like a throw if you can). You can watch the rest of the video to see some other cool things that could work, just ignore some of the more wacky stuff that clearly wouldn't work well in a smash bros game.

I wanted to add this as well.. I feel like in some way the PMBR used Ryu as inspiration for Lucario. If you watch the video of Ryu Vs Scorpion, you'll see a lot of similarities (this could of course just be coincidence as well!). But, if they did somehow use this as inspiration, I think we could use someone who plays like scorpion to give Lucario a cool opponent to face

Thoughts?

The rest of ZSS I think is perfect, simply working on her up B and grabs would make her so much more awesome. But that probably wont be happening

Another style I'd push for if it were possible would be Gun Kata:

Sadly there are no dual-gun users that couldbe viable for the roster. Sami is as close as it gets, but she lacks the disciplined flair to pull it off. She's more of a rougeish soldier rather than a trained martial artist. And adding such a character would be insane to program.

Inb4 bullets are cheap and wouldn't work in a fighter.

But w/e Gun Kata ain't happening, so I'm not holding my breath. At least I can push for Battoujutsu and be satisfied with that...

If you look in BrawlVault, theres a "gunslinger ZSS" mod. Here's a video of it:

There are some pretty cool attacks in this mod.. the sound effects I think could get annoying. But if a move set took some inspiration from this hack, it wouldn't be too bad.

Don't lose sight of something that half the people here seem to be forgetting...


How is that going to be possible? Many movesets are possible, but I don't see how Saki's is. There is nothing in the roster to build off of, especially for gun kata.

Speaking to this point, I actually think ZSS could be a great base for Saki! Her whip article could be edited to work like a sword! From what I've seen in Sin and Punishment, Saki's sword kinda comes out of a gun type thing she holds.

No?

Edit: Just wanted to also add, taking some of the "gunslinger samus" mod attacks as inspiration, and mixing them with "sword" attacks would be awesome for Saki.

 

[Solbliminal]

Speaking to this point, I actually think ZSS could be a great base for Saki! Her whip article could be edited to work like a sword! From what I've seen in Sin and Punishment, Saki's sword kinda comes out of a gun type thing she holds.

No?

That ....is actually extremely clever. Bonus points for you.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

That ....is actually extremely clever. Bonus points for you.

 

[Solbliminal]

You know, it is a shame we can't really rep things outside of Brawl. I would love to see some Indie Game representation for Freedom Planet and Mighty No. 9. Alas, there is no chance in hell that will happen.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

You know, it is a shame we can't really rep things outside of Brawl. I would love to see some Indie Game representation for Freedom Planet and Mighty No. 9. Alas, there is no chance in hell that will happen.

[collapse=If only...]

[/collapse]

 

[Dan G.]

Up-votes:
Isaac
Lyn
Knuckles
Saki
Dark Samus

Half-votes:
Ridley
Black Shadow & new Ganondorf
Samurai Goroh
Krystal (or Leon)
Shadow

Down-votes:
Tails
Waluigi
Bowser Jr.
Paper Mario
Toad

 

[B.W.]

Paper Mario would also be cool if the (pretty much confirmed) costumes for Peach and Luigi end up being Shadow Queen and Mr. L.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Something I was just thinking... Would the PMBR use any hacks from the BrawlVault as a base for their hacks? We know they prefer clones because a lot of the work is already completed for them, and it would just be up to them to make the changes they want to make the characters original (like Roy). So do you think they'd use for example, the Waluigi, or Ridley hacks from the Vault? Those are pretty decent even though they still need lots of work to be up to par with the rest of Project M, but at least that way they wouldn't be starting from scratch.

 

[Phaiyte]

you wouldn't be happier with a true to the character Ganondorf huh? even though he's already basically Black Shadow with a Ganondorf skin?

*shrugs* eh, to each their own

Why would you even bother comparing a moveset to Black Shadow? He literally never actually displays anything physical about himself outside of racing with an over sized garbage truck in F-Zero. Ganon doesn't have any real physical representation either in ANY of the games he is in. He does all of shooting a small orb at you in OoT, never shows off any kind of aerial attacks, and walks slowly at you swinging a hunk of metal once every 5 minutes. Neither Sheik or Ice Climbers have any physical representation either. On top of which almost every character has random **** that was completely made up and not derived from any of their games. Like seriously, this is nothing but a bunch of 0s and 1s and nothing else, and people like you make the hugest deal out of nothing.

 

[Solbliminal]

Something I was just thinking... Would the PMBR use any hacks from the BrawlVault as a base for their hacks? We know they prefer clones because a lot of the work is already completed for them, and it would just be up to them to make the changes they want to make the characters original (like Roy). So do you think they'd use for example, the Waluigi, or Ridley hacks from the Vault? Those are pretty decent even though they still need lots of work to be up to par with the rest of Project M, but at least that way they wouldn't be starting from scratch.

A member already stated that they do all their work from scratch and won't use hacks done in the vault as a base. I don't remember where I saw the post, but I did see it nonetheless.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

A member already stated that they do all their work from scratch and won't use hacks done in the vault as a base. I don't remember where I saw the post, but I did see it nonetheless.

Was that referring to character models? or move sets as well?
Because they can't say the move sets are "from scratch" if they plan on making any clones/semi clones.

 

[geno]

Paper Mario

B.W. keeps posting about Paper Mario and it's making me sad that there's not more conversation going on about it. The whole idea of timings to make it him more effective just seems like it'd add an amazingly fun aspect to the game. I'm not sure how it'd work out, but I'd want to see something to where Paper Mario could grab someone and as a pummel (or throww), he does his hit until he messes up the timing thing. For example, he grabs, then jump, bounce, bounce, bounce (getting consecutively harder), then when he messes up, the opponent goes flying somewhere. This would be terrible in team battles though. and it might get annoying to watch.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

you wouldn't be happier with a true to the character Ganondorf huh? even though he's already basically Black Shadow with a Ganondorf skin?

*shrugs* eh, to each their own

Why would you even bother comparing a moveset to Black Shadow? He literally never actually displays anything physical about himself outside of racing with an over sized garbage truck in F-Zero. Ganon doesn't have any real physical representation either in ANY of the games he is in. He does all of shooting a small orb at you in OoT, never shows off any kind of aerial attacks, and walks slowly at you swinging a hunk of metal once every 5 minutes. Neither Sheik or Ice Climbers have any physical representation either. On top of which almost every character has random **** that was completely made up and not derived from any of their games. Like seriously, this is nothing but a bunch of 0s and 1s and nothing else, and people like you make the hugest deal out of nothing.

I'm not gona start arguing about whos right any more, but I have a new possible solution.. which is the same as another solution I mentioned, but slightly different...

First of all, the old version of this solution was bringing in an OOT Ganon model as the Clone Engine character, and keeping TP Ganon as is instead of replacing him as Black Shadow. But my "new version" of this solution:

K so you know how they have the alt costume engine right? And you know how mario has the slight changes in his Dr Mario costumes right?
So what if they gave Ganondorf his OOT/Melee costume as a set of his alt costumes, but for THOSE costumes he could have a full separate move set (this would be only done for ganondorf). Keep in mind I know there would still be a lot of work being put into this and all, and this would probably still take up a Clone engine character space, but in this situation, you wouldn't be picking a "different" version of Ganondorf. It would feel like ok I'm picking Ganondorf, but I want the OOT version not the TP version. I don't know how to explain my logic.. its kinda like if you pick Mario and Dr Mario as 2 separate characters vs as a different costume, it doesn't feel like its a different character..
I'm probably not making any sense, I'm kinda tired.. its bed time
If anyone gets what I'm saying help me out here lol.

 

[Solbliminal]

Was that referring to character models? or move sets as well?
Because they can't say the move sets are "from scratch" if they plan on making any clones/semi clones.

I already answered your question if you wouldn't rush to read and reply. I can't get much clearer than "ALL THEIR WORK FROM SCRATCH". As for semi-clones, that should be a no brainer. Yes, they are working with existing Brawl characters. No, they are not working with others mods in any way shape or form. Anything they make is either already from brawl, or their own work. Simple enough?

 

[Solbliminal]

B.W. keeps posting about Paper Mario and it's making me sad that there's not more conversation going on about it.

I pretty much felt this way when people ignored anything I had to say about Shadow. Hence why I'm withdrawn from posting a decent moveset breakdown for him.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Don't lose sight of something that half the people here seem to be forgetting...

How is that going to be possible? Many movesets are possible, but I don't see how Saki's is. There is nothing in the roster to build off of, especially for gun kata.

Gun: Fox lasers (recolored yellow, and on automatic) since Saki's gun don't flinch opponents.
Sword: Either beam sword which is the most alike, or Pit's except with longer range (why Pit's? Because he holds it reverse-hand style, and Saki's sword comes out in a similar angle (from his gun) to the one Pit's bow-sword points when he's holding them separate. Ergo, Starkiller style


Moves to clone:

B: Fox laser + Pit's aiming.
Btilt: Mario's cape (but with beamsword + added damage)
Bup: Rob's old Bup (but once interrupted, can't recover again)
Bdown: Zero Suit Samus' old Down+B

As for overall move style, a slightly slower Pit, with more melee range, and slightly more weight too. Maybe even spacy-physics too.

 

[Chzrm3]

K so you know how they have the alt costume engine right? And you know how mario has the slight changes in his Dr Mario costumes right?
So what if they gave Ganondorf his OOT/Melee costume as a set of his alt costumes, but for THOSE costumes he could have a full separate move set (this would be only done for ganondorf). Keep in mind I know there would still be a lot of work being put into this and all, and this would probably still take up a Clone engine character space, but in this situation, you wouldn't be picking a "different" version of Ganondorf. It would feel like ok I'm picking Ganondorf, but I want the OOT version not the TP version. I don't know how to explain my logic.. its kinda like if you pick Mario and Dr Mario as 2 separate characters vs as a different costume, it doesn't feel like its a different character..
I'm probably not making any sense, I'm kinda tired.. its bed time
If anyone gets what I'm saying help me out here lol.

I'm definitely okay with this, haha. It would still be a lot of work for something that I don't totally feel is necessary, but since so many people like the idea of changing Ganondorf's moveset, that's a pretty good compromise. I'd still have my old buddy, and I could try the new Ganondorf too.

There's probably a more elegant way to tie everything together by making him his own character slot (so that it's more clear to people that there's a new playstyle in the game), but I love the sentiment, and I think it'd do exactly what you guys want without fundamentally changing Gdorf as a character.

Is there a thumbs up smiley? ahh that's pretty close

 

[l3thargy]

[quote="shinhed-echi, post: 15941155, member: 79218"Moves to clone:

B: Fox laser + Pit's aiming.
Btilt: Mario's cape (but with beamsword + added damage)
Bup: Rob's old Bup (but once interrupted, can't recover again)
Bdown: Zero Suit Samus' old Down+B[/quote]

I agree with this except for when it comes to the the up-B, we could make it like falcon's with the angle and what not, using his jet-pack to launch himself upwards, instead of it being a grab move it could end with a slash, or maybe a move similar to Rob's new up air but with a gun instead of his eyes lol

or he could use Rob's up-b but instead of making it so he can't recover after being hit, just make it so it only goes the length of Link's up-b or something (maybe a bit less) and give him the ability to attack out of it, that way he would succumb to edge-hogging as easily and it could give him some nice option depending on how his move set is set up (the way I see his recovery the way you suggested it seemed like any character who has a projectile would completely devastate him)

 

[Anti Guy]

Edit: I agree with getting unique move sets into P:M. I really wish we could get a fighter that took some inspiration from characters like Scorpion, Kratos, and Ivy. Zerosuit Samus would have actually been perfect for a move set like this, but the PMBR seems to have made their decisions with her already. Here are some videos and descriptions of what I'm thinking would have worked well (I'll just use ZSS as my example because I can't think of anyone else it would work really well with):

First move - a grounded Up B attack shooting out ZSS's whip at an angle instead of directly above her. If it connects it pulls in your opponent like Scorpion does in this video like a million times (after 1:30 in). Once you pull them in, Samus does some automatic kicking animation to hit them away (again like in this video):

Next - an areal Up B attack would still shoot the whip out at an angle, but now if it connects, it would pull ZSS close to the opponent rather than pulling the opponent in. This happens at 6:00 in this video:

This move would also work the same way as in this video, ZSS would fling herself into her opponent (feet first works) booting them in the face.

Finally - lot of Ivy's attacks are completely ridiculous, but some of ZSS's grabs could work similarly to Ivy's grabs where she throws her opponents into the air after a normal grab, and then grabs them with her sword whip mid air and slams them into the ground. If you watch this video you can see some good examples of this (a good one is about 30-35 sec in except its not a grab attack - just imagine it work like a throw if you can). You can watch the rest of the video to see some other cool things that could work, just ignore some of the more wacky stuff that clearly wouldn't work well in a smash bros game.

I wanted to add this as well.. I feel like in some way the PMBR used Ryu as inspiration for Lucario. If you watch the video of Ryu Vs Scorpion, you'll see a lot of similarities (this could of course just be coincidence as well!). But, if they did somehow use this as inspiration, I think we could use someone who plays like scorpion to give Lucario a cool opponent to face

Thoughts?

The rest of ZSS I think is perfect, simply working on her up B and grabs would make her so much more awesome. But that probably wont be happening




If you look in BrawlVault, theres a "gunslinger ZSS" mod. Here's a video of it:

There are some pretty cool attacks in this mod.. the sound effects I think could get annoying. But if a move set took some inspiration from this hack, it wouldn't be too bad.



Speaking to this point, I actually think ZSS could be a great base for Saki! Her whip article could be edited to work like a sword! From what I've seen in Sin and Punishment, Saki's sword kinda comes out of a gun type thing she holds.

No?

Edit: Just wanted to also add, taking some of the "gunslinger samus" mod attacks as inspiration, and mixing them with "sword" attacks would be awesome for Saki.

Wow, I actually hadn't thought about ZSS. And that mod is a good food. Maybe it is possible after all. We'll see.

Something I was just thinking... Would the PMBR use any hacks from the BrawlVault as a base for their hacks? We know they prefer clones because a lot of the work is already completed for them, and it would just be up to them to make the changes they want to make the characters original (like Roy). So do you think they'd use for example, the Waluigi, or Ridley hacks from the Vault? Those are pretty decent even though they still need lots of work to be up to par with the rest of Project M, but at least that way they wouldn't be starting from scratch.

They already said no. They make everything from scratch. I think I mentioned this in my OP.

Gun: Fox lasers (recolored yellow, and on automatic) since Saki's gun don't flinch opponents.
Sword: Either beam sword which is the most alike, or Pit's except with longer range (why Pit's? Because he holds it reverse-hand style, and Saki's sword comes out in a similar angle (from his gun) to the one Pit's bow-sword points when he's holding them separate. Ergo, Starkiller style


Moves to clone:

B: Fox laser + Pit's aiming.
Btilt: Mario's cape (but with beamsword + added damage)
Bup: Rob's old Bup (but once interrupted, can't recover again)
Bdown: Zero Suit Samus' old Down+B

As for overall move style, a slightly slower Pit, with more melee range, and slightly more weight too. Maybe even spacy-physics too.

No, I don't think it works this way. You don't just "give the beam sword" and then they have it -- or at least I'm pretty sure you don't. One thing you CAN do is model an article based off a character's normal sword animations (it's been done for Ganondorf's sword).

 

[B.W.]

Aw yeah, Spin Smash. Never has there been a more useless hammer special attack in Mario history.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

@Anti Guy

You can actually give an effect of sword glow to any character, so if you use the model changer that ZSS has for her whip, then the Sword would work as well.

the only problem with ZSS is that her file size is extremely restrictive to work with since her and Samus share a PSA file. This however could be side stepped by the fact they don't need to worry about Samus for the PSA, and could dump all the moveset stuff into ZSS' cloned files without having to worry.

Honestly, most appropriate base would probably be Pit in my opinion, as you could use his model changers for his bow to act like the gun changing into the blade for certain attacks, and his bow could be edited into an appropriate projectile, using the effects from the Assist trophy when shooting.

 

[Viceversa96]

+ vote:

* Pichu- Pichu seems to be the only SSBM vet who has no real representation in P:M whatsoever. Pikachu doesn't seem to have inherited much of anything from Pichu, and it's self damage and other weird attributes (that Pika could never get away with having) could make it a very interesting high-risk/high-reward character. .I don't think that "he was a clone in melee and he was bad" is a fair argument to make considering that we've got Mewtwo (who was low tier), Roy (who was low tier AND a clone) confirmed to return. Joke characters need love too.
Naysayers do have a point that we've got a LOT of pokemon, however-- if people REALLY, REALLY, don't want Pichu back, I'd suggest porting some of his mechanics over to Plusule and Minun.


* Ridley- Seriously-- It's a freaking purple radioactive killer space dragon and it's the biggest icons in one of Nintendo's best series (Metroid). How has this thing never been playable? I need this.

* Samurai Goroh- The original F-zero rival! He strikes me as a far more original and endearing character than Black Shadow. He's one of the icons of the series, being one of only four racers to have appeared in EVERY game in the series. Way funnier and more memorable than Black Shadow. There are some great moveset ideas in this thread, and he could work well as a melee fighter with a few sword based attacks. and heck-- in spite of his cool sword, I wouldn't even mind a Goroh that DIDN'T use his sword (as a running gag and a shout out to the fact that Falcon never uses his gun in gameplay). His SSBM intro cameo was also pretty legit.

* Issac- Golden Sun seems like a pretty cool beloved franchise that could use a playable spot. It seems like there's a lot he could do inbetween using a sword and his psyenergy abilities. I wish I could say more-- I need to play this series. I hear great things about it!

* Dixie- Mainly because she was planned to be in SSBB. I've also got a lot of fond memories growing up with the DKC series, and giving it another character could be nice. (DKC2 >>>>>>>>). She's got potential to be pretty interesting, and I'm sure the PMBR could make magic happen with her should she appear as a playable character. Just so long as she doesn't show up in SSB4....

1/2 vote:

* Lyn- barely missed getting the upvote. FE7 is amazing, but I wound up going with Dixie in the end, since she was slated to actually be playable in SSBB. That and Fire Emblem seems to be pretty well repped-- every subseries (except Jugdral ;_; ) has at least one playable representative-- Marth for the Akaneia games, Roy for the Elibe series, and Ike for Telius, and DKC could use an extra character.

* Plusule and Minun- as an updated, reworked version of Pichu if people really don't want him. Imagine a team of two broken-tier Pichus' desynching and murdering all in their path...

* Paper Mario- This thread sold me on him. Cloning him off of Game and Watch is actually a good idea, and he could be a very interesting fighter with tons of legit tricks. ....Not to mention that the Thousand-Year Door was amazing.

* Little Mac- Punch-Out is awesome, but he could end up in SSB4, and he'd require a LOT of work. I'm still disappointed that Mike Tyson wasn't a boss in the Subspace Emissary. That would have been amazing.

* Knuckles- While I don't really think Sonic really needs any more characters, I do think Knuckles is awesome and is by far the best pick of the bunch. *salutes*

Neutral:

* Andy/Sami- with all due respect to this series and it's legacy, I'm a little concerned about how much work it would take to get a model going for these characters.

* Tingle- could be a pretty funny joke character with massive trolling potential.

- vote:

Abstain. I'd feel kinda spiteful souring another character's chances....

Orange Soda Guy I still ****ing love your name. And this list.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Wow, I actually hadn't thought about ZSS. And that mod is a good food. Maybe it is possible after all. We'll see.



They already said no. They make everything from scratch. I think I mentioned this in my OP.




No, I don't think it works this way. You don't just "give the beam sword" and then they have it -- or at least I'm pretty sure you don't. One thing you CAN do is model an article based off a character's normal sword animations (it's been done for Ganondorf's sword).

Beamsword was just a reference, I did mention Pit could be used as a base for the style in which he uses his blades.
The sound effect could be taken from the beam sword. The gunblade itself can be modelled, and Pit's weapon works well in the sense that Pit holds it like a normal bow, but when he attacks it splits. The gunblade in its resting stance is turned off, but when he attacks, the beam part of the weapon appears.
Ah shucks, ninjad'

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I already answered your question if you wouldn't rush to read and reply. I can't get much clearer than "ALL THEIR WORK FROM SCRATCH". As for semi-clones, that should be a no brainer. Yes, they are working with existing Brawl characters. No, they are not working with others mods in any way shape or form. Anything they make is either already from brawl, or their own work. Simple enough?

Relax bro, I'm just clarifying, you don't need to be rude. I was asking because I've seen them say that all of their MODELS are going to be from scratch, I wanted to make sure you didn't see the same thing and assumed they meant EVERYTHING from scratch.

There's probably a more elegant way to tie everything together by making him his own character slot (so that it's more clear to people that there's a new playstyle in the game), but I love the sentiment, and I think it'd do exactly what you guys want without fundamentally changing Gdorf as a character.

I mentioned him having his own character spot, but some people didn't love that idea either. I think this way would actually work pretty nicely to be honest, and would also eliminate clutter in the CSS. Ganondorf is Ganondorf, I don't think he needs another character space.

 

[Fortress]

+ vote:* Ridley- Seriously-- It's a freaking purple radioactive killer space dragon and it's the biggest icons in one of Nintendo's best series (Metroid). How has this thing never been playable? I need this.

* Samurai Goroh- The original F-zero rival! He strikes me as a far more original and endearing character than Black Shadow. He's one of the icons of the series, being one of only four racers to have appeared in EVERY game in the series. Way funnier and more memorable than Black Shadow. There are some great moveset ideas in this thread, and he could work well as a melee fighter with a few sword based attacks. and heck-- in spite of his cool sword, I wouldn't even mind a Goroh that DIDN'T use his sword (as a running gag and a shout out to the fact that Falcon never uses his gun in gameplay). His SSBM intro cameo was also pretty legit.

Just to lighten the mood.

Ganondorf is Ganondorf, I don't think he needs another character space.

I think I misunderstood what you said, but just in case I'm having a stroke and read this incorrectly, did you perhaps mean to imply that Ganondorf, a character who has been a part of the last two games, doesn't need the character space that he came into the vanilla game with?

 

[shinhed-echi]

or he could use Rob's up-b but instead of making it so he can't recover after being hit, just make it so it only goes the length of Link's up-b or something (maybe a bit less) and give him the ability to attack out of it, that way he would succumb to edge-hogging as easily and it could give him some nice option depending on how his move set is set up (the way I see his recovery the way you suggested it seemed like any character who has a projectile would completely devastate him)[/quote]

That's what I was suggesting, but then your second bit made me realise it would've been a mistake. Perhaps it could simply last a lot less, and don't cancel out when getting hit? :D

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Wow, I actually hadn't thought about ZSS. And that mod is a good food. Maybe it is possible after all. We'll see.

Just wanted to ask, what do you (or others) think of taking some inspiration from Scorpion, Kratos and Ivy for ZSS or any other character?

Ganon doesn't have any real physical representation either in ANY of the games he is in. He does all of shooting a small orb at you in OoT, never shows off any kind of aerial attacks, and walks slowly at you swinging a hunk of metal once every 5 minutes. Neither Sheik or Ice Climbers have any physical representation either. On top of which almost every character has random **** that was completely made up and not derived from any of their games.

I read your post again, and it angered me.
Ganondorf has no physical representation in ANY games? When he was released in melee as Ganondorf from OOT, if you use your immagination in any way they could have taken moves like:

The orb/scattar shot
The ground punch that sends a shockwave
The black magic beam/push thing (or whatever it was) in the piano room when you first see him
Cape reflector
The ability to float temporarily
A sword (based on his pre WW form in spaceworld2000 - especially since they gave him this sword in his victory pose)

After using all these attacks they could easily have put together some "A" attacks that made sense - the Sparta kick would have worked, and his neutral A punch would be fine as well for starters.

You brought up Sheik.. s/he had one appearance in a zelda game, and the only real move she was seen doing was disappearing. They managed to create a whole move set for her. And Zelda has never really taken part in any game previously, but they created a move set for her too by using their, dare I say it, IMMAGINATION! Using the argument that Ganondorf had nothing to work with is insane. You have to be delusional to believe that.

As for Ice Climbers, again, they didn't have much to work with really, so they had to build a move set for them that made some kind of sense, once again with their imagination. Ill say it a million times, Ganon being a clone was SHEER laziness.