New Character to be Shown Monday

[Rᴏb]

Evidence for Lucina being a clone character
- labeled as a newcomer
- labeled as a character
- from what we've seen, has the same moveset as Marth

Evidence for Lucina being a costume for Marth
- from what we've seen, has the same moveset as Marth

Everything else is assumptions. You don't know how her moves work, you don't know how Marth's moves work. It's impossible to know these things at this point in development. Asserting anything about Lucina other than the things that have been clearly pointed out (the points I listed) is stupid. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[supersaiyanmikito]

Here is the thing though, what could they actually do to make her different? Lucina and Marth are exactly the same IN THEIR OWN GAME!

 

[Bladeviper]

Then why not just have Marth appear twice?

if she has a unique voice clip and the announcer calls her lucina then its not marth is it

 

[Hong]

So many Fire Emblem: Awakening spoilers in that trailer. The only thing they didn't spoil is that Robin is

Spoiler: Awakening Spoilers

the Fell Dragon Grima.

Doesn't mean you had to go and spoil more.

Please use spoiler tags next time. Thanks.

 

[kylexv]

New (and blank) Icons!

 

[Bladeviper]

Here is the thing though, what could they actually do to make her different? Lucina and Marth are exactly the same IN THEIR OWN GAME!

? marth is not in awakening expect by dlc which then makes every lord from the series like someone else

 

[Terotrous]

Evidence for Lucina being a clone character
- labeled as a newcomer
- labeled as a character
- from what we've seen, has the same moveset as Marth

Evidence for Lucina being a costume for Marth
- from what we've seen, has the same moveset as Marth

Everything else is assumptions. You don't know how her moves work, you don't know how Marth's moves work. It's impossible to know these things at this point in development. Asserting anything about Lucina other than the things that have been clearly pointed out (the points I listed) is stupid. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

I'd add the following for costumes:

- Other such costumes are known to be in the game, such as Female Robin
- No other clone in the series has shared all B moves with the character they're cloned from, and with each game they've been working to make the clones more distinct from each other (see Toon Link in this game for example).

 

[Moldy Clay]

Lucina is a seperate entity from Marth. Why would she be a alt. if she is a different person?

Kuma & Panda in Tekken.

Panda is a Kuma costume as well as a gender swap.
However, as you see, she is recognized as a completely different character, with her own name showing up when fighting, instead of saying "Kuma".
She also has her own back story, separate from Kuma's, and her own ending.

And considering Namco's making the game, this is entirely possible.

@ the topic itself:

I'm on neither side of the fence. Both sides have evidence going for it.

On one side, you have the site flat out calling her a new character and giving her her own page.
On the other side, you have Sakurai completely ignoring her on the Miiverse (but mentioning Robin & C.Falcon), her Specials being the same and her minimal importance in the trailer (as well as the ? in her splash).

All this talk about how certain things move can easily be true or your eyes playing tricks on you because of whichever side you want to believe.

Lucina being her own character factually does not disprove her being a costume, seeing as Namco has ALREADY done stuff like this before.

So Lucina could EASILY be the same situation as Kuma/Panda.
OR she could EASILY be a normal Marth clone/pseudo clone.
What she is NOT is a completely unique character, until further notice. Clones, by definition, have the same special attacks (but with altered functionality) and mostly the same/similar normal attacks.

So until further notice, she is like Kuma/Panda, or she's like Roy, or she's like Lucas was to Ness (different, but shared Specials).

It goes either way, and until the game's out or Sakurai shows us otherwise, you cannot say that she is only a costume or only a character.

 

[supersaiyanmikito]

if she has a unique voice clip and the announcer calls her lucina then its not marth is it

There are so many things they could do by having clone characters share slots. Protoman alt for Megaman. Dark Pit for Pit. They could bring back Pichu and Dr Mario if they wanted.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

It honestly shocks me that anyone at this point thinks of her as anything but a clone.

She is Roy. She's just Lucina.

Maybe she will be higher tier than Roy was?

 

[Bladeviper]

I'd add the following for costumes:

- Other such costumes are known to be in the game, such as Female Robin
- No other clone in the series has shared all B moves with the character they're cloned from, and with each game they've been working to make the clones more distinct from each other (see Toon Link in this game for example).

but robin is still robin, Lucian is NOT Marth.

 

[Lautsuu~]

As a massive Fire Emblem fan, I am overjoyed with Lucina and Robin~ Can't wait to play as them.

 

[tstumo]

Um.. Namcobandai is also helping in this game. In Tekken a good amount of characters had a shared slot so to speak. had different voice clips and the announcer would announce them as their own character their own set of outfit colors as well. Christie/eddy, Kuma/panda, Alex/Roger, Angel/Devil and some others. I didn't see anything that made Lucina look like her own character honestly. Even in games like tekken alt slot characters were considered separate and had their own stories etc.

 

[SuperMii3D]

Guys, Lucina is her own character....

There are currently 4 Fire Emblem reps, those being Marth, Ike, Robin and Lucina. LUCINA IS NOT AN ALT OF MARTH. She has her own square on the main website, and she received her own splash art. Why is this even an argument.

 

[tstumo]

Um.. Namcobandai is also helping in this game. In Tekken a good amount of characters had a shared slot so to speak. had different voice clips and the announcer would announce them as their own character their own set of outfit colors as well. Christie/eddy, Kuma/panda, Alex/Roger, Angel/Devil and some others. I didn't see anything that made Lucina look like her own character honestly. Even in games like tekken alt slot characters were considered separate and had their own stories etc.

 

[Shroob]

Guys, Lucina is her own character....

There are currently 4 Fire Emblem reps, those being Marth, Ike, Robin and Lucina. LUCINA IS NOT AN ALT OF MARTH. She has her own square on the main website, and she received her own splash art. Why is this even an argument.

See above.

 

[UberPyro64]

There you go. The phone image shows Lucina as a full on Newcomer.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Sakurai is buffing the Roster size, I learned to like clones after knowing how they were made, They barely take space in the Roster and they are made effortlessly, because the animations and the bones structure is already in-game! and they are easier to balance!

This picture shows you that Lucina will be the fastest and the weakest

Marth will be the middle man, after all he put on more weight for a reason

and Ike is the Strongest and the slowest!

 

[supersaiyanmikito]

Why are people so against someone who fights exactly like another character sharing a slot just like in tekken? Its being made by the same developers people!

 

[Gepona]

For me, just the fact that Lucina square at the website is small and not large like all other newcomers, she is a alternate costume. She has her spot because she is a "special case" of alternate costumes. Robin and Wii Fit Trainer alternate costumes are still the same character, but Lucina and Marth are not. I like how Sakurai always make a way to put some fan favorite characters in the game without occupying to many slots(PKM Trainer, Zero Suit Samus, Sheik).

Lucina shows up with a full large newcomer banner if you go to the website on your phone. I think it was just a matter of fitting in all the characters neatly on the page. I'm sure the banner will change once we get more characters revealed.

Don't degrade my Lucina to a costume change D:

http://imgur.com/QjHffzk

 

[Rᴏb]

I'd add the following for costumes:

- Other such costumes are known to be in the game, such as Female Robin
- No other clone in the series has shared all B moves with the character they're cloned from, and with each game they've been working to make the clones more distinct from each other (see Toon Link in this game for example).

Female Robin isn't a different character from male Robin. Robin is an avatar and can't be applied to this situation. Try and find an example where a character has a completely different character for a costume. You can't.
All of the clone characters have shared the same b moves as the character they were cloned from, but most had aesthetic differences and all had stat differences. For all we know, Lucina's b moves could look exactly the same as Marth's but function differently. You're implying that they function exactly the same, which is impossible to know unless you somehow have the finished game in your possession. Also, Toon Link looks exactly the same as he was in Brawl (a clone of Link).

 

[SuperMii3D]

Gah, why cant I upload pictures. The website clearly states that Lucina is a newcomer, there is no doubt about it.

 

[Sayjin]

Here is the thing though, what could they actually do to make her different? Lucina and Marth are exactly the same IN THEIR OWN GAME!

...No they aren't? Lucina assumes his identity so as to not reveal her own, and wears similar clothes to go with it. That's all. She has access to the Lord class, and can thusly promote to Great Lord. Marth can do neither, for he is a Lodestar, not a Lord. As such, Lucina has access to Lord skills such as Aether, while Marth only gets Luck +4 (which Lucina can only get if her mother is Olivia) and Aptitude. While they both use the Falchion, there's over a thousand years of wear and tear on it by the time Lucina gets it, so the blade has been repaired and the hilt replaced.

Why are people so against someone who fights exactly like another character sharing a slot just like in tekken? Its being made by the same developers people!

Why are people so against someone who fights similar to another character having their own slot? Should Ganondorf share with Captain Falcon? Should Falco share with Fox? Should Toon Link share with Link?

Also, this isn't Tekken. It's Smash Bros. If they removed "changing" characters sharing slots like Zelda/Shiek, Samus/ZSS, and Pokemon Trainer, why would they then go and add another one in?

 

[UberPyro64]

So no one saw my pic?

Here it is again.

 

[ToddCam]

Every so often someone claims Sakurai said he would not include clones. Does anyone have this quote? I would be shocked if Sakurai ever even used that fan term, much less made a promise about never making them.

In regards to the demise of the Gematsu leak, I always took the whole thing with a healthy dose of skepticism. Given it was always at least somewhat faulty (the six did not appear at e3 2013), I took the position that the leaker had some information, but it wasn't necessarily reliable. Frankly, I found the second round to be dubious, with generalities being used rather than specifics (X/Y Pokémon) and I didn't take Palutena's confirmation as any sort of real achievement. With the third leak, Mii Fighters just went back to the original prediction, and when he started giving opinions ("greedy") and mentioning possible cuts, it seemed he was pushing his luck with what's believable.

One thing that has bothered me about the Gematsu leak reaction and SmashBoards in general is that rarely do people seem to wonder why something would be the case in their speculation. Why would Sakurai choose to cut Lucas? A disdain for the Mother franchise? Some arbitrary need to make sure there are cuts? Sorry for the tangential topic.

Anyway, Lucina looks cool, especially since I have never had a problem with clones, especially ones that make sense. Robin looks very intriguing. Uh... that's all.

 

[supersaiyanmikito]

NOT A COSTUME CHANGE, HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY IT!? An "exact clone" that shares Marth's space!

 

[Bladeviper]

Why are people so against someone who fights exactly like another character sharing a slot just like in tekken? Its being made by the same developers people!

they also made soul calibur which to my knowledge didnt share slots in the same manner as tekken

 

[supersaiyanmikito]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, people just want to clutter up the menus by having 2 Marths with different voice actors...

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Sakurai is buffing the Roster size, I learned to like clones after knowing how they were made, They barely take space in the Roster and they are made effortlessly, because the animations and the bones structure is already in-game! and they are easier to balance!

This picture shows you that Lucina will be the fastest and the weakest

Marth will be the middle man, after all he put on more weight for a reason

and Ike is the Strongest and the slowest!

So...a second Marth clone?

I guess Roy's goose is cooked.

---

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

NOT A COSTUME CHANGE, HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY IT!? An "exact clone" that shares Marth's space!

Who said she's an exact clone ? she obviously have different physics, the Marth of Smash4 is no longer the Marth of Brawl or Melee, Lucina is obviously going to be the Marth of Melee/Brawl!

 

[supersaiyanmikito]

Who said she's an exact clone ? she obviously have different physics, the Marth of Smash4 is no longer the Marth of Brawl or Melee, Lucina is obviously going to be the Marth of Melee/Brawl!

Even then she is WAY too close to Marth to get her own slot on the character select.

 

[Bassoonist]

So no one saw my pic?

Here it is again.

The denial toward this matter is painful.

It seems like people just want to get under our skin... They can't be this oblivious.

 

[SuperMii3D]

Even then she is WAY too close to Marth to get her own slot on the character select.

Good luck with that. When you see that "Challenger Approaching!" Screen on your 3DS/Wii-U, then youll know the truth.

 

[Espio264]

Everything about today was amazing! And I don't mean to take away from our rad new characters but, has anyone else noticed this yet?

Smashboards is not letting me upload pictures but -

The Fourth picture on CF's page

If I'm not mistaken, THAT'S AN ARWING!
At first I thought this was the Pilotwings stage, and it still might be. But the only other options are that:
1. There's an Arwing cameo on Pilotwings
2. This is a new Star Fox Stage
3. Sakurai's hinting at Falco or another SF character (besides Wolf), since we know Fox's FS is Landmaster.

 

[Moon Monkey]

The Fourth picture on CF's page

If I'm not mistaken, THAT'S AN ARWING!
At first I thought this was the Pilotwings stage, and it still might be. But the only other options are that:
1. There's an Arwing cameo on Pilotwings
2. This is a new Star Fox Stage
3. Sakurai's hinting at Falco or another SF character (besides Wolf), since we know Fox's FS is Landmaster.

Or it could just be a stage intro animation for Fox...

 

[Bladeviper]

Everything about today was amazing! And I don't mean to take away from our rad new characters but, has anyone else noticed this yet?

Smashboards is not letting me upload pictures but -

The Fourth picture on CF's page

If I'm not mistaken, THAT'S AN ARWING!
At first I thought this was the Pilotwings stage, and it still might be. But the only other options are that:
1. There's an Arwing cameo on Pilotwings
2. This is a new Star Fox Stage
3. Sakurai's hinting at Falco or another SF character (besides Wolf), since we know Fox's FS is Landmaster.

its totally not the pilotwings stage from the looks of it, they are on the ground. nice

 

[supersaiyanmikito]

The argument about the website calling her a newcomer is flawed too, have you ever heard of a thing called "advertising"?

 

[Espio264]

Or it could just be a stage intro animations for Fox...

Yeah, ok. I suppose that makes a good bit of sense considering Falcon's stepping outta his racer.

Nevermind kids, nothing to see here.

 

[JCAndre]

NOT A COSTUME CHANGE, HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY IT!? An "exact clone" that shares Marth's space!

If this was the case they would share a space on the website, and Sakurai would have clarified it on Miiverse. They are separate characters. End of story. No discussion. No debate.

 

[ShortFuse]

Lucina is supposed to be a Marth clone/copy. If Sakurai didn't make her a Marth clone, he would have done her wrong. She impersonates Marth in the Fire Emblem game.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Lucina

There are subtle differences in the animation (like Dolphin Slash) but for the most part, she's a female Marth (actually female this time huehuehuehuehue).

Falco is a clone of Fox in Melee and while having similar animations, is a different character. This isn't that difficult. We have Mario/Luigi, Link/Toon Link that looked based on one another and yet are different.

Why Sakurai did this is up for discussion, but I'd like to point out, Lucina was probably an easy addition into the game to buff up the character number.

As for if she's an alt, of course not. Sakurai has no problem clearly stating alternate costumes and he wouldn't have made such a confusing system to say she's an alt. Look at female villager. She is tied into Villager. Look at Robin, alt costume allows you to pick gender. Look at Wii Fit Trainer. We don't have two character slots for them because they are just alt costumes.

Why it says update, instead of newcomer is anyone's guess. According to the HTML, this is a likely a mistake on the front page since change it to type1 from type2 stretches out and says newcomer. Other points are she has her own box, the site says "The introduction for a new challenger, Lucina, is now available." and on her main page it says "Newcomer" unlike other pages.