Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Zult]

I'm more interested in Corrin's normal attacks than her special attacks personally. Her tilts really interest me. I don't see dragon lunge being the center of the moveset. I could be wrong. DFS seems just as good if not better since it can make people approach and has mix ups with the bite afterwards. I'm just seeing DL as a quick punish option from the air. It's still interesting, but I think it's a bit overhyped. I'm obsessed with her tilts myself.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm more interested in Corrin's normal attacks than her special attacks personally. Her tilts really interest me. I don't see dragon lunge being the center of the moveset. I could be wrong. DFS seems just as good if not better since it can make people approach and has mix ups with the bite afterwards. I'm just seeing DL as a quick punish option from the air. It's still interesting, but I think it's a bit overhyped. I'm obsessed with her tilts myself.

I'm *kind of* obsessed with Corrin's potential disjointed range which can be seen in some of the GIFs that have popped up over the past few days.

I swear I get a Melee Marth vibe every time I see Corrin's sword swings (especially the aerials)

Like in the GIF in this post (the media tags like to fight with me if I touch them so I'm just hard-quoting the GIF's source-post):

Nair looks like it autocancels. I see it being a combo starter for sure.

Also would like to point out that Corrin's skid looks extremely fast to act out of. Hope for good ground movement like extended dash dancing and trotting? Also notice how stupidly fast that dtilt is the other Corrin is doing.

And in this GIF which you posted earlier:

http://gfycat.com/HonorableGratefulFlatcoatretriever

Large hitboxes are large.


------------------------------

Also agreed on the DL comment, during a match unless you're fighting one of the big bodies (Bowser, Dedede, Zard, etc.) and unless you get a read/whiff punish I can't imagine (consistently) getting a successful pin with it. Granted, pin -> immediate kick(s) seems to cover some serious horizontal space so even if the pin isn't successful the kick can still do damage off a read/whiff punish All of that said (and ergo, as a result of its seemingly-read-based-optimal-use) I can't imagine the pin -> kick as an option to throw out in neutral because the kick itself seems to be a notable frame commitment and seems like it can be easily shielded/powershielded on reaction (even if it naturally crosses up, I still think its neutral-game application could very well be limited). I'd be inclined to say that pinning in neutral in general might not be a good idea (although it could have its bait/punish applications) considering that Corrin's jump option automatically puts her in a less favorable situation (because being in the air above a grounded opponent is usually disadvantageous, and I feel like Corrin's landing options could be an issue), and because canceling isn't really useful for anything outside of pins (as far as I can tell, generally speaking, unless you pin (as a bait) -> cancel when the opponent acts, I guess) since it just resets to idle position.


Random comment: I have only just now realized how ridiculously long Corrin's back roll seems to be, rolls back to perfect ledge-tipper spacing when standing at the ledge (1:50 in the trailer).

 

[RandysRage]

I imagine Dragon Lunge as a useful punish tool similar to Ganondorf's Flame Choke but with more applications. I wonder what happens if you're offstage and you hit the opponent with Lunge; would you both fall or simply hang in place?

 

[ZephyrYoshi]

I'm excited for the applications of side-B when offstage; it essentially doubles your options when recovering high. I wonder if the kick will be fast enough to get you out of edgeguarding situations.

 

[Athrel]

I'm more interested in Corrin's normal attacks than her special attacks personally. Her tilts really interest me. I don't see dragon lunge being the center of the moveset. I could be wrong. DFS seems just as good if not better since it can make people approach and has mix ups with the bite afterwards. I'm just seeing DL as a quick punish option from the air. It's still interesting, but I think it's a bit overhyped. I'm obsessed with her tilts myself.

I agree that we haven't been paying attention to their normals enough, but I wouldn't say F-special's practical use is that limited. I don't want to talk about just that in this post though so I'm going to make my own attempt at a list of pros/uses to Corrin's moves like you did a few pages ago.

jab
-not much I can really say about this that hasn't already been said. They look like good, functional jabs.

ftilt
- I see it as mainly being used as a punish for poor spacing where other moves like jab or f-smash would just barely miss or come out too slowly. Other than that it could be used as a pivoted move against a chasing opponent.

dtilt
- nothing I can really add here either. looks like a faster, weaker, Ike dtilt which should be good.

utilt
- might be a potential follow up from dtilt like has been said. might also be a good anti-air. It'll probably be the least used of the tilts.

fsmash
- It's been one of the most talked about moves so I don't have any unique input here either.

usmash
- might be rare in usage if Corrin has a slow run speed as predicted due to needing to catch a landing to hit with the desired hitbox and the arms not sticking out to the side very much. Corrin's legs also stick out and as such might be vulnerable during the smash which could be bad. It looks pretty quick and lowers the hurtbox considerably so if the arms are disjointed, it could be used as a higher commitment, more close range anti air than utilt. Also, minor gripe, but where does the Yato blade go during the animation?

dsmash
- Looks pretty reliable. Probably won't kill until late, but I think it'll be more useful for being a good get off me option and of course, covering rolls. If it has a low enough knockback angle, it might be able to set up tech chase esque situations with dragonfang shot.

dash attack
- lowers hurtbox and sword extends pretty far so it might be good at challenging landings with aerials.

nair
- huge and with hitboxes at two different points most of the time. Probably really good for edgeguarding depending on its cooldown and the full height of dragon ascent since its wide and probably disjointed range could both swat away linear recoveries and potentially 2-frame opponents. Might also be nice at covering ledge get up options and landings too tricky for usmash or utilt

fair
- might be a safe poke if use while retreating. might also be good at keeping pressure on someone who's already been launched. pretty plain move overall.

uair
- similar to marcina's. Not much else to say

dair
- probably has rare usage, but is probably still good vs a sloppy juggle attempt. might also be able to poke through thin stages in a toon link/ shiek esque manner in order to further help with edgeguarding.

bair
- Probably useful in disadvantage for making air movement irregular to make intercepting a landing harder. Looks good for spacing in neutral and has great range. might come out deceptively fast as at around 4:10 of the gameplay explanation Corrin is able to hit shulk despite the wings being only about half unfolded.

neutral b
- I can see it being used frequently in an MK fsmash esque fashion where the goal isn't necessarily to connect with it, but to force the opponent to be cautious in approaching. The bite's nice for deterring forward rolls at mid range. It could also be really good if Corrin has any ways to set up jab lock situations.

up b
- recovers

down b
- counters

side b
- The aerial version of this move combined with the two kicks look to have a fair amount of utility.
1. being another option for getting off of the ledge in a similar way to how fox can use illusion to do so.
2. mixing up aerial approaches since pinning in the ground stops momentum and back kick can be a safe retreat.
3. depending on Corrin's physics, can be useful out of SHAD.
4. depending on how it interacts with shields there could be more.

-The grounded version leaps pretty far so it could be a nice retreat to reset neutral, but it might be too laggy for that. Otherwise it looks inferior to the aerial version


throws
- don't have anything to add that hasn't been said.

 

[OceloT42]

I'm more interested in Corrin's normal attacks than her special attacks personally. Her tilts really interest me. I don't see dragon lunge being the center of the moveset. I could be wrong. DFS seems just as good if not better since it can make people approach and has mix ups with the bite afterwards. I'm just seeing DL as a quick punish option from the air. It's still interesting, but I think it's a bit overhyped. I'm obsessed with her tilts myself.

me too,man,me too.
Shutting down recoveries like Ganon's with angled smash seems really enticing.

 

[AJb1205]

Wait so Corrin and his dragon form are a transformation? Is this similar to how zelda and sheik were? If so then wouldn't the 3DS be un able to handle it?

 

[Andrew McKernan]

Wait so Corrin and his dragon form are a transformation? Is this similar to how zelda and sheik were? If so then wouldn't the 3DS be un able to handle it?

No, it's only a visual transformation for some of his attacks. He's still one character.

 

[Spark31]

Some things of note. A disjointed dive kick could stuff some aerial follow ups. Notice how all stall then fall moves, when used right out of hitstun, don't propel you downwards. Most of these have no disjoint, allowing the opponent to simply take advantage of the lack of mobility. However, if disjointed, it could screw up some down throw follow ups. It may even break some down throw -> up true combos. Also, for dash attack, even though it will likely have more shield stun it might auto cross-up. If it does that you can't be OoS grabbed and they have to turn around to grab. If that's the case we're looking at at least 10 extra frames that are required for any shield drop. That should make it much safer IMO.

 

[exnecross]

Some things of note. A disjointed dive kick could stuff some aerial follow ups. Notice how all stall then fall moves, when used right out of hitstun, don't propel you downwards. Most of these have no disjoint, allowing the opponent to simply take advantage of the lack of mobility. However, if disjointed, it could screw up some down throw follow ups. It may even break some down throw -> up true combos. Also, for dash attack, even though it will likely have more shield stun it might auto cross-up. If it does that you can't be OoS grabbed and they have to turn around to grab. If that's the case we're looking at at least 10 extra frames that are required for any shield drop. That should make it much safer IMO.

The dive kick could perhaps be used as a spike, similarly to how Sheik can spike opponents trying to recover by doing a reverse dair at the ledge. If you happen to know, can Greninja spike from the ledge with his dair? Because both his and Corrin's look very similar.

 

[Spark31]

The dive kick could perhaps be used as a spike, similarly to how Sheik can spike opponents trying to recover by doing a reverse dair at the ledge. If you happen to know, can Greninja spike from the ledge with his dair? Because both his and Corrin's look very similar.

I think Greninja's can, however comparing to similar moves doesn't work in this case because of how unique Corrin's dair us.

 

[Nextime]

Hey everyone! This is my first post on smashboards so let me know if I’m doing anything wrong with how I’m posting here. Anyway I’m looking forward to playing Corrin/Kamui when they release so I did some digging. I’ve been reading smashboards since last February or so and was here for the creation of this thread and I’ve have been keeping up with it and I think I have something some may find useful (at least for discussion purposes).

So far there seems to be a lot of talk about Kamui’s normal (specifically aerials), so I took some time to do some calculations using the frame data here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13yLMpvV58FOcJta6wDTlhPEGh0DVh2r5Ms9Y5TfaUP8/edit#gid=0 . I made a few assumptions as far as the hops are concerned so let me know if I made a mistake. Looking at the data, the frames under SH and FH seem to only be to the peak of the jump so I multiplied them by two for SH airtime and FH airtime. Then I took the estimated FAF for all of the aerials and checked against SH airtime to see if Kamui has any aerials that auto-cancel in a short hop.

SH Airtime: 28 – 34 frames

N air – 26 +

F air – 20 +

B air – 21

U air – 22-23

D air - ?

Based on this, all aerials auto-cancel in a short hop except D air. If the plus indicates it may be a bit more frames than suggested than perhaps N air won’t auto-cancel in a SH. For reference I looked at some of the other FE characters to compare aerials. If the data given is correct then Kamui is most like Robin with D air being the only aerial that doesn’t auto-cancel. Marth and Lucina are down from Robin’s number of cancels as they lose the cancel on N air. Ike losses his cancel on U air and Roy from the data here: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy just doesn’t have auto-cancels.

Based on the data, it seems most likely that at least three aerials will auto-cancel in a short hop but this is based on data that is an estimation so please do not take it as 100%. My contribution to the discussion is that if we do get the auto-cancels as shown then Kamui will be in a good position with disjointed, long, and safe range on aerials. They should all be really good spacing tools but how safe they are will still depend on the damage output and such.

 

[exnecross]

I think Greninja's can, however comparing to similar moves doesn't work in this case because of how unique Corrin's dair us.

It doesn't look all that special to me. Seems like any other similar dair. Perhaps it could challenge dair killers like Rosa's uair but I doubt it.

 

[Spark31]

It doesn't look all that special to me. Seems like any other similar dair. Perhaps it could challenge dair killers like Rosa's uair but I doubt it.

The important thing is it's multihit and disjointed. This means it likely does not damage when used high up, and can contest some up aira better than most funniest moves.

 

[OceloT42]

This may seem stupid ,but what if you pin the ground and an airborne opponent?(say,while they were shorthopping).Do you hang in place with the enemy hanging at jump height, or do they just slide down your lance?
New moves=hell lotta questions

 

[AJb1205]

No, it's only a visual transformation for some of his attacks. He's still one character.

Ah ok, that makes sense, I thought it'd be a Wii U only DLC, and 3DS would get another character.

 

[Spark31]

This may seem stupid ,but what if you pin the ground and an airborne opponent?(say,while they were shorthopping).Do you hang in place with the enemy hanging at jump height, or do they just slide down your lance?
New moves=hell lotta questions

90% sure they'll be stuck at their height. It honestly didn't make much difference either way unless you take their second jump. Would be a really wierd case for them to program for.

 

[LancerStaff]

Also i think kamui will have a good grab range because in the trailer when dpit is running in his direction he grabs him so i think his grab will have more range than dpit dashgrab

Uh... Dark Pit has one of the best dash grabs in the game. That's not really possible. I think he just ran at him and got grabbed.

I swear I get a Melee Marth vibe every time I see Corrin's sword swings (especially the aerials)

Reminder that people said the exact same thing for Lucina and then they got worse Marth...

 

[Spark31]

Uh... Dark Pit has one of the best dash grabs in the game. That's not really possible. I think he just ran at him and got grabbed.



Reminder that people said the exact same thing for Lucina and then they got worse Marth...

To be fair Lucina is literally a marth clone

 

[OceloT42]

Speaking of grab range, do you think he will have good grab range or will it be like Marth's where you have to tell him to STRETCH YOUR ARM MORE DAMMIT THEY'RE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU

 

[LancerStaff]

To be fair Lucina is literally a marth clone

And Melee Marth was a ridiculously broken mess they're obviously hesitant to repeat.

Really, what'd be the point in stripping character down to a shell of his former self and then making a character like what he was? If Corrin functioned anything like Melee Marth there'd be some gigantic drawbacks, even bigger then Roy's. Even then, we have some apparent advantages over Melee Marth right now, like recovery and range on certain (powerful and slow) attacks.

Speaking of grab range, do you think he will have good grab range or will it be like Marth's where you have to tell him to STRETCH YOUR ARM MORE DAMMIT THEY'RE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU

...Uh, Marth does have good grab range. One of the best without being a slow tether, in fact.

Unless you're talking about his dash grab, then yeah, Marth's dash grab is meh.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh... Dark Pit has one of the best dash grabs in the game. That's not really possible. I think he just ran at him and got grabbed.



Reminder that people said the exact same thing for Lucina and then they got worse Marth...

I'm talking about it with respect to Melee Marth's range.

Considering that Lucina's range is incredibly similar to Marth's (apparently slightly shorter because her hurtbox/body is slightly smaller) and Marth's is shorter than his Melee iteration by a notable margin I fail to see how whatever your saying is relevant to what I was pointing out tbh.

 

[Zult]

Hey everyone! This is my first post on smashboards so let me know if I’m doing anything wrong with how I’m posting here. Anyway I’m looking forward to playing Corrin/Kamui when they release so I did some digging. I’ve been reading smashboards since last February or so and was here for the creation of this thread and I’ve have been keeping up with it and I think I have something some may find useful (at least for discussion purposes).

So far there seems to be a lot of talk about Kamui’s normal (specifically aerials), so I took some time to do some calculations using the frame data here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13yLMpvV58FOcJta6wDTlhPEGh0DVh2r5Ms9Y5TfaUP8/edit#gid=0 . I made a few assumptions as far as the hops are concerned so let me know if I made a mistake. Looking at the data, the frames under SH and FH seem to only be to the peak of the jump so I multiplied them by two for SH airtime and FH airtime. Then I took the estimated FAF for all of the aerials and checked against SH airtime to see if Kamui has any aerials that auto-cancel in a short hop.

SH Airtime: 28 – 34 frames

N air – 26 +

F air – 20 +

B air – 21

U air – 22-23

D air - ?

Based on this, all aerials auto-cancel in a short hop except D air. If the plus indicates it may be a bit more frames than suggested than perhaps N air won’t auto-cancel in a SH. For reference I looked at some of the other FE characters to compare aerials. If the data given is correct then Kamui is most like Robin with D air being the only aerial that doesn’t auto-cancel. Marth and Lucina are down from Robin’s number of cancels as they lose the cancel on N air. Ike losses his cancel on U air and Roy from the data here: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy just doesn’t have auto-cancels.

Based on the data, it seems most likely that at least three aerials will auto-cancel in a short hop but this is based on data that is an estimation so please do not take it as 100%. My contribution to the discussion is that if we do get the auto-cancels as shown then Kamui will be in a good position with disjointed, long, and safe range on aerials. They should all be really good spacing tools but how safe they are will still depend on the damage output and such.

Nice work! What surprises me the most is the bair could potentially be auto-canceled. That's very interesting. Is Corrin's bair gonna be that one broken move all DLC characters get that he gets? Ryu is him and his frame 2-3 tilts. Cloud with his up air. Could it be back air for Corrin? :o And we're barely talking about it. What IF Corrin's bair does auto cancel? What possibilities does that open up? Going to take a look at the frame data more closely later.

 

[Latias]

Nice work! What surprises me the most is the bair could potentially be auto-canceled. That's very interesting. Is Corrin's bair gonna be that one broken move all DLC characters get that he gets? Ryu is him and his frame 2-3 tilts. Cloud with his up air. Could it be back air for Corrin? :o And we're barely talking about it. What IF Corrin's bair does auto cancel? What possibilities does that open up? Going to take a look at the frame data more closely later.

I don't think it matters unless its safe on shield.

 

[Patriot Duck]

I don't think it matters unless its safe on shield.

On the contrary, if Corrin's bair autocancels on shorthop, it could potentially be used as an approach option. I'm thinking of Mii Gunner where you can cover some huge distance with a retreating fair. Now imagine Corrin doing an advancing bair without any landing lag.

Of course, this is all just speculation. I doubt Corrin's bair will actually autocancel on short hop.

 

[OceloT42]

bair seems to be his best looking aerial right now.
that, and the feeling of just swatting your enemies away.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm talking about it with respect to Melee Marth's range.

Considering that Lucina's range is incredibly similar to Marth's (apparently slightly shorter because her hurtbox/body is slightly smaller) and Marth's is shorter than his Melee iteration by a notable margin I fail to see how whatever your saying is relevant to what I was pointing out tbh.

We go through this every time... Whenever we saw a new swordsman people were always excited about the apparent long range when in reality everybody's hovering around the same area. Even a lot of Shulk's moves are within this range.

On the contrary, if Corrin's bair autocancels on shorthop, it could potentially be used as an approach option. I'm thinking of Mii Gunner where you can cover some huge distance with a retreating fair. Now imagine Corrin doing an advancing bair without any landing lag.

Of course, this is all just speculation. I doubt Corrin's bair will actually autocancel on short hop.

SH Autocancel doesn't necessarily mean good approach option or even hard to punish. If the attack comes out earlier and autocancels late it won't be safe on shield, especially if the damage is bad. High range isn't even a great aspect in this game because dash attacks/grabs are so good out of a perfect shield.

 

[Latias]

On the contrary, if Corrin's bair autocancels on shorthop, it could potentially be used as an approach option. I'm thinking of Mii Gunner where you can cover some huge distance with a retreating fair. Now imagine Corrin doing an advancing bair without any landing lag.

Of course, this is all just speculation. I doubt Corrin's bair will actually autocancel on short hop.

Theres nothing contrary about what I said. If you approach with bair and its not safe on shield then you shouldnt approach with bair even if it autocancels..

 

[PK Gaming]

Hey everyone! This is my first post on smashboards so let me know if I’m doing anything wrong with how I’m posting here. Anyway I’m looking forward to playing Corrin/Kamui when they release so I did some digging. I’ve been reading smashboards since last February or so and was here for the creation of this thread and I’ve have been keeping up with it and I think I have something some may find useful (at least for discussion purposes).

So far there seems to be a lot of talk about Kamui’s normal (specifically aerials), so I took some time to do some calculations using the frame data here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13yLMpvV58FOcJta6wDTlhPEGh0DVh2r5Ms9Y5TfaUP8/edit#gid=0 . I made a few assumptions as far as the hops are concerned so let me know if I made a mistake. Looking at the data, the frames under SH and FH seem to only be to the peak of the jump so I multiplied them by two for SH airtime and FH airtime. Then I took the estimated FAF for all of the aerials and checked against SH airtime to see if Kamui has any aerials that auto-cancel in a short hop.

SH Airtime: 28 – 34 frames

N air – 26 +

F air – 20 +

B air – 21

U air – 22-23

D air - ?

Based on this, all aerials auto-cancel in a short hop except D air. If the plus indicates it may be a bit more frames than suggested than perhaps N air won’t auto-cancel in a SH. For reference I looked at some of the other FE characters to compare aerials. If the data given is correct then Kamui is most like Robin with D air being the only aerial that doesn’t auto-cancel. Marth and Lucina are down from Robin’s number of cancels as they lose the cancel on N air. Ike losses his cancel on U air and Roy from the data here: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy just doesn’t have auto-cancels.

Based on the data, it seems most likely that at least three aerials will auto-cancel in a short hop but this is based on data that is an estimation so please do not take it as 100%. My contribution to the discussion is that if we do get the auto-cancels as shown then Kamui will be in a good position with disjointed, long, and safe range on aerials. They should all be really good spacing tools but how safe they are will still depend on the damage output and such.

Excellent, thank you very much! So let's see...

-Frame 3 jab
-Insanely quick aerials (that bair is implied to be a good KO option and it's frame 7-8!)
-Quick projectile
-Good run speed
-Solid grab frame data
-4f jumpsquat

This character is shaping up to be another competent sword fighter...NICE

 

[Zult]

Corrin's face changes when he does the smash attack here https://youtu.be/_qj8O07Kg_I?t=108 (1:48 slow it down to 1/4 speed), so I'm assuming the time from when his face changes to when the attack is released is start up time. Seems like a reasonable start up time for a smash attack. Now look at the back air https://youtu.be/_qj8O07Kg_I?t=105 (1:45). As soon as his face changes, the back air comes out and is active. His back air might actually come out faster than what everyone is expecting. He does another one right after he hits metaknight and it looks actually really fast. If this thing is a disjoint, this might be potentially borderline broken in terms of spacing.

Here at 4:21 https://youtu.be/_qj8O07Kg_I?t=261 Corrin does multiple back airs in a row. End lag or start up lag does not look bad at all. Notice as soon as Corrin's face changes back to normal, he is instantly able to do another. This leads me to believe that it is possible act out of Corrin's dragon attacks as soon as his face changes back to normal.

 

[Spark31]

We go through this every time... Whenever we saw a new swordsman people were always excited about the apparent long range when in reality everybody's hovering around the same area. Even a lot of Shulk's moves are within this range.



SH Autocancel doesn't necessarily mean good approach option or even hard to punish. If the attack comes out earlier and autocancels late it won't be safe on shield, especially if the damage is bad. High range isn't even a great aspect in this game because dash attacks/grabs are so good out of a perfect shield.

But literally almost nothing is safe on perfect shield. There is no shield stop, however if you force an opponent to punish with a non OoS option it'll take an extra 10 frames (give or take) to drop shield. Hell, it takes 20 frames to recover from shielding normally without an opponent hitting it. That's a lot of time to make things safe on shield.

Theres nothing contrary about what I said. If you approach with bair and its not safe on shield then you shouldnt approach with bair even if it autocancels..

SH AC bair to grab would by relatively safe. And if you opponent has defensive habits when you hit shield you can aduse those. Approach with bairs and jab shield, bait the OoS option (probobly roll) and punish.

Hey everyone! This is my first post on smashboards so let me know if I’m doing anything wrong with how I’m posting here. Anyway I’m looking forward to playing Corrin/Kamui when they release so I did some digging. I’ve been reading smashboards since last February or so and was here for the creation of this thread and I’ve have been keeping up with it and I think I have something some may find useful (at least for discussion purposes).

So far there seems to be a lot of talk about Kamui’s normal (specifically aerials), so I took some time to do some calculations using the frame data here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13yLMpvV58FOcJta6wDTlhPEGh0DVh2r5Ms9Y5TfaUP8/edit#gid=0 . I made a few assumptions as far as the hops are concerned so let me know if I made a mistake. Looking at the data, the frames under SH and FH seem to only be to the peak of the jump so I multiplied them by two for SH airtime and FH airtime. Then I took the estimated FAF for all of the aerials and checked against SH airtime to see if Kamui has any aerials that auto-cancel in a short hop.

SH Airtime: 28 – 34 frames

N air – 26 +

F air – 20 +

B air – 21

U air – 22-23

D air - ?

Based on this, all aerials auto-cancel in a short hop except D air. If the plus indicates it may be a bit more frames than suggested than perhaps N air won’t auto-cancel in a SH. For reference I looked at some of the other FE characters to compare aerials. If the data given is correct then Kamui is most like Robin with D air being the only aerial that doesn’t auto-cancel. Marth and Lucina are down from Robin’s number of cancels as they lose the cancel on N air. Ike losses his cancel on U air and Roy from the data here: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy just doesn’t have auto-cancels.

Based on the data, it seems most likely that at least three aerials will auto-cancel in a short hop but this is based on data that is an estimation so please do not take it as 100%. My contribution to the discussion is that if we do get the auto-cancels as shown then Kamui will be in a good position with disjointed, long, and safe range on aerials. They should all be really good spacing tools but how safe they are will still depend on the damage output and such.

As useful as this data could be, it's probobly useless to speculate about frame data in a 30 fps video about a character that isn't even completed. General speed? Go ahead and speculate. But specific numbers like this are really only gonna serve to get people's hopes up.

 

[LancerStaff]

Excellent, thank you very much! So let's see...

-Frame 3 jab
-Insanely quick aerials (that bair is implied to be a good KO option and it's frame 7-8!)
-Quick projectile
-Good run speed
-Solid grab frame data
-4f jumpsquat

This character is shaping up to be another competent sword fighter...NICE

Wait, wait, wait. Frame 3 jab? I'd take that with a grain of salt. No swordsman has a frame 3 anything at the moment, and only two have a frame 4 jab. The rest are frame 5 and up. Isn't Corrin's jab 1 a sword slash? If so, then it's probably not frame 4.

I don't think there's any swordsman with a frame 4 jumpsquat either... Maybe MK or Toon Link, but the normal sized ones are again frame 5 and up.

Like, really, don't pin your hopes and dreams on sketchy 30fps frame data.

But literally almost nothing is safe on perfect shield. There is no shield stop, however if you force an opponent to punish with a non OoS option it'll take an extra 10 frames (give or take) to drop shield. Hell, it takes 20 frames to recover from shielding normally without an opponent hitting it. That's a lot of time to make things safe on shield.

Multihit aerials can be...

Ever count the number of perfect shields in a pro match? It's most of them. Even then, most characters can just jump OoS and punish with an aerial, or in ZSS's case just tether grab.

 

[LordShade67]

I don't think there's any swordsman with a frame 4 jumpsquat either... Maybe MK or Toon Link, but the normal sized ones are again frame 5 and up..

Cloud.
Edit: Oh, and no. Corrin uses Dragon Fang for Jab 1, not their sword.

 

[LancerStaff]

Cloud.
Edit: Oh, and no. Corrin uses Dragon Fang for Jab 1, not their sword.

Conveniently I think I overheard that was a typo. I'll double check later. Still, that'd only be one average sized swordsman with a frame 4 jumpsquat, and the video runs at 30fps. The difference between a frame would be impossible to see.

Sorry, have a hard time remembering animations on characters I can't actively play as... If it reaches much further then a punch it's definitely not going to be f4. Heck, Roy's jab 1 is stumpy and it's still f5.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Wait, wait, wait. Frame 3 jab? I'd take that with a grain of salt. No swordsman has a frame 3 anything at the moment, and only two have a frame 4 jab. The rest are frame 5 and up. Isn't Corrin's jab 1 a sword slash? If so, then it's probably not frame 4.

I don't think there's any swordsman with a frame 4 jumpsquat either... Maybe MK or Toon Link, but the normal sized ones are again frame 5 and up.

Like, really, don't pin your hopes and dreams on sketchy 30fps frame data.



Multihit aerials can be...

Ever count the number of perfect shields in a pro match? It's most of them. Even then, most characters can just jump OoS and punish with an aerial, or in ZSS's case just tether grab.

Corrin jab looks pretty fast, and believe me, i know whats a fast jab and a slow one by just looking at it, and like the other guy says, jab 1 is Corrins hand

 

[PK Gaming]

Wait, wait, wait. Frame 3 jab? I'd take that with a grain of salt. No swordsman has a frame 3 anything at the moment, and only two have a frame 4 jab. The rest are frame 5 and up. Isn't Corrin's jab 1 a sword slash? If so, then it's probably not frame 4.

I don't think there's any swordsman with a frame 4 jumpsquat either... Maybe MK or Toon Link, but the normal sized ones are again frame 5 and up.

Like, really, don't pin your hopes and dreams on sketchy 30fps frame data.

Lancer, bubbe, c'mon now. You need to learn to have faith.

The estimations are rough, but I have faith in them; i'm leaving my preconceived expectations at the door and hoping for the best.

 

[Zult]

I thought Cloud's nair would be as slow as Ike's. I thought Ryu having a bad grab would make him mid tier at best. Sometimes you have to throw logic out the window and stop thinking they wouldn't do something because it's not balanced. Bowser now kills off a grab at 75. Ryu has kill confirms at 60 from 2 frame moves. Cloud has set ups into finishing touch to kill at at 50.

Is it to hard to believe Corrin would have a frame 3 or 4 jab?

I think things to be potentially really good (borderline OP) so far is his back air and down tilt. They just look way too good. Even if they are a frame or 2 slower than what we've predicted, they would still insanely fast.

 

[ARGHETH]

I think things to be potentially really good (borderline OP) so far is his back air and down tilt. They just look way too good. Even if they are a frame or 2 slower than what we've predicted, they would still insanely fast.

...borderline OP? Dtilt is a quick move that pops people up. It's good for comboing, but not at all OP. Bair is a relatively quick move with decent killing power; probably out best aerial, but it can't be that good.

Corrin jab looks pretty fast, and believe me, i know whats a fast jab and a slow one by just looking at it, and like the other guy says, jab 1 is Corrins hand

If it's a hand jab, then it's probably F4, like Ike and Cloud's jabs.

 

[Armagon]

I've noticed a lot of people on this thread say that Corrin's Dragon Fang Shot may not be able to follow up from a long range because of the mandatory bite afterwards. But i don't think the bit is mandatory. At around the 4:45 mark in the Direct, we see Corrin use an uncharged Dragon Fang Shot on Diddy Kong but we don't see the bite happen. Considering that the bite can be charged as well, this leads me to believe that the bite part of Dragon Fang Shot isn't required and Corrin may be able to follow up on a mid-range Dragon Fang Shot.

Regarding Corrin's overall strength and weakness, i decided to do a bit of research. Knowing that Sakurai designed the DLC newcomers to closely resemble their appearance and abilities in their original games, i decided to look up Corrin's raw stat growths (in other words, his stat growths without the player costuming their growth rates). His Strength and Speed seem to be his strong points while his defense is somewhat on the low side. This could mean that Corrin is potentially a glass canon. However, take this with a grain of salt as these stats could mean nothing in terms of his Smash Bros potential. What do you guys think?

(If any of the stuff i said here has been said before, i apologize. I'm new here).

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

I've noticed a lot of people on this thread say that Corrin's Dragon Fang Shot may not be able to follow up from a long range because of the mandatory bite afterwards. But i don't think the bit is mandatory. At around the 4:45 mark in the Direct, we see Corrin use an uncharged Dragon Fang Shot on Diddy Kong but we don't see the bite happen. Considering that the bite can be charged as well, this leads me to believe that the bite part of Dragon Fang Shot isn't required and Corrin may be able to follow up on a mid-range Dragon Fang Shot.

Regarding Corrin's overall strength and weakness, i decided to do a bit of research. Knowing that Sakurai designed the DLC newcomers to closely resemble their appearance and abilities in their original games, i decided to look up Corrin's raw stat growths (in other words, his stat growths without the player costuming their growth rates). His Strength and Speed seem to be his strong points while his defense is somewhat on the low side. This could mean that Corrin is potentially a glass canon. However, take this with a grain of salt as these stats could mean nothing in terms of his Smash Bros potential. What do you guys think?

(If any of the stuff i said here has been said before, i apologize. I'm new here).

Pretty sure it does a mini quick bite and there is lag to untransform his/her arm.